check call river? i dont think he values with overpairs so i donked trying to rep a busted SD, ofc he could have that to and he would prolly bluff what do u think?

Weird. I would expect him to shove his over pairs on the turn. Only hands that would make sense would be TJ or something weird.

I think shoving river is a must though, you checking back makes no sense, and he probably checks back hands that he might call off. I dont think he is ever going to shove river with worse, as he prob is shoving turn with overpairs, and given size of pot I dont think he can ever shove river as a bluff if you check back to him.

he maybe just fold something like 88 , dont think too much
too many donks cant fold their middle pair in 3b pot
cold call 2 streets and finally give up the river

how is he shoving turn? pot is 25 we have 36 each

On February 22 2011 13:14 xicotaSLB wrote: how is he shoving turn? pot is 25 we have 36 each

it would not be an overbet if u bet and he shoved , the sizing is optimal at all

Bet turn. He's probably not going to raise, because he would have already done it on the flop. Plus there is a possibility he is floating here to take the pot on the turn after your check, thus you may end up checking a blank river and losing to a better ace.

On February 22 2011 13:14 xicotaSLB wrote: how is he shoving turn? pot is 25 we have 36 each

I mean he is going to ship it in on the turn after your turn bet so often with over pairs when the board pairs. So the fact he calls, would incline that he does not have that.

let's pretend he is competent, do we ever get called with anything that doesn't vbet river here?

I would just shove turn. I don't mean crai, i mean just shoving.

On February 22 2011 13:17 Chewits wrote: Show nested quote + On February 22 2011 13:14 xicotaSLB wrote: how is he shoving turn? pot is 25 we have 36 each I mean he is going to ship it in on the turn after your turn bet so often with over pairs when the board pairs. So the fact he calls, would incline that he does not have that.

WE DID NOT BET TURN

On February 22 2011 13:18 barbieman wrote: I would just shove turn. I don't mean crai, i mean just shoving.

I would bet around $15 on the turn. Shoving doesn't change much and we can still C/F river if we miss and keep a good chunk of money. Spots like this one happen pretty often and I think at NL50 betting 2/3 of the pot every time instead of shoving will save you a nice amount of cash.

On February 22 2011 13:20 jeffv8x_-_16 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 22 2011 13:17 Chewits wrote:   On February 22 2011 13:14 xicotaSLB wrote: how is he shoving turn? pot is 25 we have 36 each I mean he is going to ship it in on the turn after your turn bet so often with over pairs when the board pairs. So the fact he calls, would incline that he does not have that. WE DID NOT BET TURN

oh shit. Totally mis-read that. T_T Wheres my glasses..

Well that changes everything. check shove river could be best line then after you check turn.

But I much prefer betting turn as said above, check calling doesn't do alot for you imo.

didnt read all comments, but, when you get this flop you definitely want to plan for max FE/stackoff, so you plan your bet sizing around being able to shove turn - with the 3bet sizing, this is pretty easy, even something like 11 on flop, 33 on turn is about right i think

but also, i dont really like this 3bet in general, i think its pretty spewy, unless you were doing it based on reads and expecting for him to fold quite often preflop