How tight do you have to be seemed to make a bluff here +EV
I expect villain's holding to be pretty much pocket pairs and heavily discounted Ank as he snap checked behind turn with some sprinkling of fds

if you bet normal size it's going to fail a lot. If you are too tight he could be adjusting his turn checking range as well
2x the pot or give up imo

That's a great point!

When I ran 5/4 1% 3bet over 130 hands an overbet would be pretty cool here right?

i'd rather bet the turn, seems like a good one.

Yeah that's a good point too I think 100% pocket pairs fold here. As played betting like $15 should be guarantee +ev right?

I know I would cry fold even AQ against a turbonit which would be the iceberg of my range and I'd bet it on turn most of the time

I think it's ok to bluff since an ace usually bets the turn, I think expecting people to fold trips here even if you overbet is super optimistic unless you have a very good read on your opponent.

Yeah I know I would fold my entire range against a 5/4 but I can't expect NL25 reg to do the same. Still it should fold out all Kxcc+pps ezpz where I think Lebowski is quite right that Kx will call most of the time and 99-QQ (if he has QQ)a decent amount when I bet $5.

I don't think that's a large part of his range tho, he overcalled preflop so you can discount JJ-QQ a fair bit then when he calls your 3way cbet he probably doesnt have Kx unless it's Kxcc. you can bet smaller and fold out like 8x 33-77 and do fine. I think overbetting could be a good play here but I don't think it's best versus most players.

Ok I R confuse now, how much do you bet then?
Isn't flatting JJ and like 50% QQ standard against a 5/4 albeit small sample MP open if the cold caller isn't too call happy?
Aren't 33-77 discounted on the flop a lot? I bet quite big to fold those bad boys out

I think betting the turn would be the better play here but, and bluffing 2x pot looks really bluffy I say bet $5.90 :-)

heh I would never imagine trying to put a random off trips,that's true.
Oskar, my point is that the bet check bet line usually gets zero credit in the lower stakes in my experience,they somehow feel like they have to call because they checked the turn with 8x or whatever

@lebowski you may be right, I don't know how lines are perceived at this stake really, I just figure he's probably calling/folding based on his absolute hand strength and I think he has a lot of weak hands in his range and he's probably not folding the "strong" parts of his range regardless.

@lemon I meant smaller as in smaller than 15$ I think betting 5$ is a fine size.

Not everyone will play with a hud / pay attention to it / was he at the table for all 130 hands? / you have more than 130 hands against him so the stats he has on you may be different. He could definitely have JJ/QQ sometimes but I think it's a small enough part of his range where if you get called by Kxcc QQ-JJ your bluff is still good. Say he has QQ-JJ 50% of the time that's 6 combos, then he has KJcc, KQcc and sometimes he has a weak ace, so say he has 14~ combos to call you and he can have 68s 78s 89s T8s J8s 33-77 99-TT that's a lot more combos even if you discount some on earlier streets.

I would think people at this stake call 1 bet on the flop with any pair but maybe I'm wrong and they fold 33-77 a lot here, I might just be projecting my own learning curve on other people too much and I for a long time would peel the flop or even overcall with any pair.

dont bluff this river if u check the turn
overbet doesnt make sense also esp u r oop

I think at this point you pretty much just have to give up.

So if a 5/4 1% 3bet nit overbets the river with this line I should be calling him a lot?

On May 06 2011 10:39 LemOn[5thF] wrote: So if a 5/4 1% 3bet nit overbets the river with this line I should be calling him a lot?

wtf lol
it doesnt matter , overbet just looks bluffy , if villain good enough he would put u exactly on missdraw and call it down with 1 pair hand
also this is relatively small pot , what reason u wanna ob to take it down?
if u can balance ur range overbet with ur value hand on river just go ahead

On May 06 2011 10:39 LemOn[5thF] wrote: So if a 5/4 1% 3bet nit overbets the river with this line I should be calling him a lot?

I see you writing this type of thing a lot and I don't really get it. If someone says you shouldn't overbet bluff here it's because they expect you to get called a lot, that doesn't mean that they're correct in calling or that you should be calling in that spot.

edit: so there's no confusion, it also doesn't mean that you shouldn't be calling or that your opponents are incorrect to call here, I'm saying the two things are unrelated and I've seen you in several posts act as if you think they are or should be.

did you just use the word balance in a NL25 hand?


And Oskar I am tilted now I will reply later -.-

On May 06 2011 10:51 LemOn[5thF] wrote: did you just use the word balance in a NL25 hand?

what type of value hands u would ob on this river?
if he never saw u do it before and he thought u r a fish , maybe u can take a try
in general its spwey when u do it and get called by 89s

On May 06 2011 10:50 sunnysky7 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 06 2011 10:39 LemOn[5thF] wrote: So if a 5/4 1% 3bet nit overbets the river with this line I should be calling him a lot? wtf lol it doesnt matter , overbet just looks bluffy , if villain good enough he would put u exactly on missdraw and call it down with 1 pair hand also this is relatively small pot , what reason u wanna ob to take it down? if u can balance ur range overbet with ur value hand on river just go ahead

this post isn't very good
1)small pots make the big difference
2)balance is irrelevant (yet at least)
3)a thinking player will actually probably fold easier to the river overbet than a fish,fishes "marry" their hands very often

Lemon nits are usually uncreative, generic villains who play against them still pay them off with trips though,because relative hand strength is usually a confusing concept for nl25 players

On May 06 2011 11:13 lebowski wrote: this post isn't very good 1)small pots make the big difference 2)balance is irrelevant (yet at least) 3)a thinking player will actually probably fold easier to the river overbet than a fish,fishes "marry" their hands very often Lemon nits are usually uncreative, generic villains who play against them still pay them off with trips though,because relative hand strength is usually a confusing concept for nl25 players

1) i def agree with this , game plan about this hand can be bet/bet/re-evaluate river
if u take bet/check and try to take a cheap line to the river , then just give it up
2) balance is important on this kinda of spot imo , bcuz if u cant balance ur range then
overbet=bluff , normal size=value bet , how can u balance this different?
3)yes it depends , i mean overall if u take this line on AAx KKx QQx board serveral times i dont think it can be really +ev , just do some math overbet needs how much success%

I'd bet 11