Hey guys what you think of this?

My friend who is sort of teaching me. Told me it was horrible. However, I knew he had a weaker Jx then me and that he would call if I shove on turn. Especially when he checked on turn. Like when he checked on the turn I knew I was ahead.

But, my friend says it was terrible.

then stop him from teaching you asap

On July 12 2011 14:16 redrain0125 wrote: then stop him from teaching you asap

Are you saying this hand was played in anyway near optimal? Everything about it is terrible in my eyes...

On July 12 2011 14:18 SoC wrote: Show nested quote + On July 12 2011 14:16 redrain0125 wrote: then stop him from teaching you asap Are you saying this hand was played in anyway near optimal? Everything about it is terrible in my eyes...

He won all the money. U JELLY?

I love this forum. But, SoC is right. Even if I did win the money.

I would probably not 3-bet flop. Call flop when you get raised. If checked to on turn, bet around potsize again.

u should learn about ranges and combonitorics youngling

On July 12 2011 14:18 SoC wrote: Show nested quote + On July 12 2011 14:16 redrain0125 wrote: then stop him from teaching you asap Are you saying this hand was played in anyway near optimal? Everything about it is terrible in my eyes...

how can you even judge whats terrible and whats not lol

The first thing is to learn not to open limp, ESPECIALLY in 4-max

On July 12 2011 15:39 redrain0125 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 12 2011 14:18 SoC wrote:   On July 12 2011 14:16 redrain0125 wrote: then stop him from teaching you asap Are you saying this hand was played in anyway near optimal? Everything about it is terrible in my eyes... how can you even judge whats terrible and whats not lol

He has eyes and a brain............ atleast i think he has them?

On July 12 2011 15:50 soberstone wrote: The first thing is to learn not to open limp, ESPECIALLY in 4-max

That was sort of a mistake. Normally would 3 bet here. I normally leave a table if there is less than 5 people, so that's why I limped there.

Also, what's so bad about open limping? My friend showed me a thread of examples of it being bad. I think I could deduce his hands. He didn't raise so it isn't AA, AK, KK, so take that out of his range. Maybe, take out QQ, JJ since I hold QJ.

The bet on flop suggest he has Jx. When I raised he didn't shove me all in even with flush to scare him. So he hasn't got something like two pair. So got him on something weaker than me. 2 flop, that didn't scare me as he checked even through flush could come in the river. Hence, I shoved since he would probably call with a weaker Jx.

See even through I open limped I could narrow his hands down taking away the problem with open limping, which is that the guy could beat you with crap like 23s and stuff like that.

Just because u leave the table when it drops below 5 handed doesn't give u any reason to limp. Why raise QJ pre? your hand is strong 4 handed, you're able to steal the blinds often & because u have a hand here (raising for value) u can valuebet it postflop often or win with a cbet, you've got position on 2/3 of the players @ the table which is nice too.

I think I could deduce his hands. He didn't raise so it isn't AA, AK, KK, so take that out of his range. Maybe, take out QQ, JJ since I hold QJ.

He would prob raise those hands pre but maybe not and thats not really all ur afraid of, is it? Since it's a limped pot you generally don't want to put a shitload of money in with only 1 pair. Thats a solid gold piece of wisdom u should learn right there. Since u limped pre u are letting a lot of hands see the flop cheap so although u might be able to rule out AA/AK/KK, you're not really able to rule out stuff like T4, JT, J4, 44, KJ, AJ, KQhh, Q9hh, 98hh, Axhh. Hint: this range crushes you.

The bet on flop suggest he has Jx. When I raised he didn't shove me all in even with flush to scare him. So he hasn't got something like two pair. So got him on something weaker than me. 2 flop, that didn't scare me as he checked even through flush could come in the river. Hence, I shoved since he would probably call with a weaker Jx.

He didn't bet the flop. You bet the flop and he raised which doesn't suggest he has Jx, it could be any of those hands above. Also, ur assuming that he knows what he's doing. 99.99% of the 2nl players don't know shit about the game so i don't know why u think he can hand read at all or knows any betting strategy. You haven't mentioned anything about how he plays either ... some people (a lot of ppl at 2nl) are really passive and will call down here with 2 pair or 44 even and others will try to trap you by calling. You're not trying to get ur stack in here with a bare 1 pair hand so don't put in another raise (thats a 3bet) on the flop cuz all ur doing is building the pot with a mediocre hand and u may end up having to fold it... also your flop 3bet sizing is too small if u were gonna raise it.

By overbet shoving the turn you're creating a huge pot in a spot where he's probably gonna fold most of his hands now that u beat and call with the hands he was trapping you with, playing passively or didn't know what to do with (that still beats you).

On July 12 2011 17:30 ggplz wrote: Just because u leave the table when it drops below 5 handed doesn't give u any reason to limp. Why raise QJ pre? your hand is strong 4 handed, you're able to steal the blinds often & because u have a hand here (raising for value) u can valuebet it postflop often or win with a cbet, you've got position on 2/3 of the players @ the table which is nice too.

I'm a huge nit so don't like raising QJ out of position. However, I'm trying to change that a lot. Yeah it was a huge mistake should have raised.

He would prob raise those hands pre but maybe not and thats not really all ur afraid of, is it? Since it's a limped pot you generally don't want to put a shitload of money in with only 1 pair. Thats a solid gold piece of wisdom u should learn right there. Since u limped pre u are letting a lot of hands see the flop cheap so although u might be able to rule out AA/AK/KK, you're not really able to rule out stuff like T4, JT, J4, 44, KJ, AJ, KQhh, Q9hh, 98hh, Axhh. Hint: this range crushes you.

Never seen someone not raise AA, AK, KK preflop. Even if the person is extremely bad I have never seen that. See I didn't really think he would have any pair or AJ, KJ, KQ as he would have raised them. I normally never limp or only limp when I have position on everyone and they have limped before me.

He didn't bet the flop. You bet the flop and he raised which doesn't suggest he has Jx, it could be any of those hands above. Also, ur assuming that he knows what he's doing. 99.99% of the 2nl players don't know shit about the game so i don't know why u think he can hand read at all or knows any betting strategy. You haven't mentioned anything about how he plays either ... some people (a lot of ppl at 2nl) are really passive and will call down here with 2 pair or 44 even and others will try to trap you by calling. You're not trying to get ur stack in here with a bare 1 pair hand so don't put in another raise (thats a 3bet) on the flop cuz all ur doing is building the pot with a mediocre hand and u may end up having to fold it... also your flop 3bet sizing is too small if u were gonna raise it.

I will think about that more. It's hard to explain in words, but at the time I knew he was going to call all in on turn and that he had weaker J. I will think about your comments more. My friend is saying that it is horrible and said the same thing as you did.

By overbet shoving the turn you're creating a huge pot in a spot where he's probably gonna fold most of his hands now that u beat and call with the hands he was trapping you with, playing passively or didn't know what to do with (that still beats you).

I suppose. I have stopped donk betting the river. To be fair I thought he was going for a flush or something like that.