i usually think this type of hand is too weak to play mulitway but too strong to fold so i decided iso with it
and on the flop we flop the nuts? lol
given the action i never expect this can be +EV call unless the SS shove naked wrap or dominated FD , EQ would be close 25-60% imo
but again if i folded on this flop i probably should muck it preflop
thoughts?

why would you fold this flop?

run some calcs is fold really good here? you don't need much equity

I think he explained it pretty clearly didn't he?

If you're not confident putting money in on one of the best boards for this hand (FD and overwrap) you shouldn't be trying to iso with it, especially given your bad position. If you're going to play the hand, there's probably more merit in keeping the pot small and getting some postflop value from fish poster/blinds.

Your argument "too weak to play multiway" is used way too loosely imo. For example, if you decide to limp a hand like this you have to accept the fact that sometimes you gotta fold bottom sets/dominated combo draws. Other factors to consider are the likelyhood of someone potting it pre behind. But that doesn't mean it's not profitable to play this way especially against weaker players, and keeping stacks deeper by just limping

Otherwise, folding pre is cool too but the point is you need some sort of coherent plan if you're gonna be playing this here

On January 03 2012 23:52 Spicy wrote: If you're not confident putting money in on one of the best boards for this hand (FD and overwrap) you shouldn't be trying to iso with it, especially given your bad position. If you're going to play the hand, there's probably more merit in keeping the pot small and getting some postflop value from fish poster/blinds. Your argument "too weak to play multiway" is used way too loosely imo. For example, if you're limp a hand like this you have to accept the fact that sometimes you gotta fold bottom sets/dominated combo draws. Other factors to consider are the likelyhood of someone potting it pre behind. But that doesn't mean it's not profitable to play this way especially against weaker players, and keeping stacks deeper by just limping Otherwise, folding pre is cool too but the point is you need some sort of coherent plan if you're gonna be playing this here

Thanks for the reply
I think if its hu pot I would make the decision pretty comfortable and easily
and i dont first limp in at any table either
I think raising pf at least decrese the multiway frequency , still not sure whice is better play

I feel like UTG limp is totally fine in PLO, I don't think you have to limit yourself to raising or folding hands that have massive flop potential like this but aren't strong enough to stack off with pre. Why would you ever fold this on the flop though? You've got the nut wrap, tons of blockers to the top straight (two of the 7s are dead) and 3 blockers to the flush with a fourth blocker in the 3h and that flop check was terrible imo. I would be trying to stack off immediately when I flop the nuts 5 way in a pot I raised and get checked to with a hand that kills so many of their outs. You're up against AT WORST top set with a NFD or some combodraw similar to yours, but you have the nut end of it so just stack off! Get it in! What the hell is "multiway potential" if not flopping the nuts?

On January 04 2012 01:56 offsuit wrote: I feel like UTG limp is totally fine in PLO, I don't think you have to limit yourself to raising or folding hands that have massive flop potential like this but aren't strong enough to stack off with pre. Why would you ever fold this on the flop though? You've got the nut wrap, tons of blockers to the top straight (two of the 7s are dead) and 3 blockers to the flush with a fourth blocker in the 3h and that flop check was terrible imo. I would be trying to stack off immediately when I flop the nuts 5 way in a pot I raised and get checked to with a hand that kills so many of their outs. You're up against AT WORST top set with a NFD or some combodraw similar to yours, but you have the nut end of it so just stack off! Get it in! What the hell is "multiway potential" if not flopping the nuts?

if I was 100% sure Harry Holler would fold here then its probably a call
do you really think even 3ppl in the pot our hand is such strong?
flush draw probably dead and have high wrap in our hand is nice but given the action i think BTN always flat dominated draw in his spot and shove over made hand or TP+nuts FD something like that
and if i cbet i would stack off anyway no matter other actions but if i checked then i can have the options to CRAI or c/c c/f
the really thing i care about is the EV can i really make money by clicking call here

shit, i'm planning on getting into omaha this year...

after seeing hands like this - fml. gonna be one hell of a mind-fuck

Fold pre, shove flop.

The main problems I have with isoing is that you're in MP and there's a poster UTG. That means it's pretty likely to go multiway whether or not you raise or limp behind. When you get into this kind of marginal situation, you really gotta have some solid reasoning for decisions and understand why you're expected to make money here. Otherwise you're just clicking buttons. That said, I think your reasons for isoing left out a lot of key factors.

looks like someone needs to play around a little with poker pro tools

board: Tc4h5h
Hand Equity Wins Ties
6h7h8h7d 45.12% 370 0
KhKsJh4d 54.88% 450 0

board: Tc4h5h
Hand Equity Wins Ties
6h7h8h7d 35.73% 293 0
AhThTd4d 64.27% 527 0

board: Tc4h5h
Hand Equity Wins Ties
6h7h8h7d 37.44% 304 6
AhTh6d4d 62.56% 510 6

board: Tc4h5h
Hand Equity Wins Ties
6h7h8h7d 54.76% 424 50
Td6s5d8s 45.24% 346 50

just cbet and get it in