i like to check call here and lead pot on non awful turns. check fold if turn is a spade, or a non club Q/T/9/8/5

I actually didn't even think about c/c in the moment, was more deciding between b/f or c/f and choose neither. C/r could be idea also but i've found lately when I c/c on this board, i get owned on alot of turns when I have the best hand because my range is never that strong and seems a bit more +ev to make my decision on the flop

bet fold is fine

Seems kind of weird to see such a standard spot posted by a nosebleeds player...

Anyways, as a plo noob I obviously welcome any and all plo discussion.

check call mode is horrendous and you definitely get owned if you check most turns after check calling flop. but if you check call say 1500, you can lead for about 8k of the 10k effective stack on the turn and you can get it in with ok equity vs his range on almost all cards you arent check folding.

the only bad cards are the 9 non ace non 6 spades, the 2 non club queens and the 12 non club T985. thats basically half the deck you are check folding and half you are leading pot. and sometimes he may check back some of those turns with showdown value type hands like KKxx. overall i do prefer this slightly to bet/fold, but i think i check fold after 3betting a little more than most and having some check continues in my range helps

On March 17 2012 15:58 Joe wrote: Seems kind of weird to see such a standard spot posted by a nosebleeds player... Anyways, as a plo noob I obviously welcome any and all plo discussion.

This comes off as arrogant too me. Whats the point...

The point is that it surprises me to see such a frequent spot posted by a high stakes player for discussion that doesnt seem to be player dependant.

im sorry other joe, i guess you are expert on every frequent spot at plo


i dont have the ego/mindset where I am the best player ever and know the most +ev spot in every single spot all the time and embrace different lines to try to always get better and potentially see different viewpoints in certain hands. I know what I choose to do is not always the right play. I don't think Q67 flush draw is frequent spot for me, Q64 is diff to me then q67, Q42, 1067, I think in a way there all a bit different then each other and your play could vary on all textures but not really that far apart therefore making each spot kinda unique to me.

This specific spot seem like kinda trivial bet/fold vs villian but then started thinking maybe alternative line might be bit more +ev so I wanted to send hand to few friends on skype and get some feedback from players here that give good input

On March 17 2012 16:27 Daut wrote: check call mode is horrendous and you definitely get owned if you check most turns after check calling flop. but if you check call say 1500, you can lead for about 8k of the 10k effective stack on the turn and you can get it in with ok equity vs his range on almost all cards you arent check folding. the only bad cards are the 9 non ace non 6 spades, the 2 non club queens and the 12 non club T985. thats basically half the deck you are check folding and half you are leading pot. and sometimes he may check back some of those turns with showdown value type hands like KKxx. overall i do prefer this slightly to bet/fold, but i think i check fold after 3betting a little more than most and having some check continues in my range helps

I was thinking about last part you said when you made your original reply that it would be good to be balance in this spot vs regulars you often play with (like in this instance). I think if you can mix in sometimes c/r in these 3b pot sometimes with b/c and b/f then you might not need to have c/c in your range with 100bb stacks because if villian knows you won't always fold when you check but also raise when you check just as often than it provides enough balance.I think our range is pretty defined when c/c here and most villians usually can make perfect decisions on many turns with their hand although our definition of perfect could be different then theirs. I might be being a little results oriented from the few times I have decided to c/c in this spot and always get my head spinning a bit on later streets and found its just easier to make my flop play with aggression and go from there.

Isnt your hand pretty much face up when you cc here?

Also why is Joe getting shit for making an innocent comment lol