yes you can call just to try to hit a set

so even if the flop is all under cards i should still fold to a lead out?

probably not!

No, all undercard = allll inn! And then count the money afterward )

On July 05 2012 05:03 johnmagi wrote: No, all undercard = allll inn! And then count the money afterward )

please dont post crap like that when someone is trying to learn

Call pf is good cuz you have implied odds with for a set and you have pos so you can extract more value when you set up. Fold this flop is good cuz any A on flop means a really tight 3b range is far ahead of you. If the flop is all undercards you should def call a bet this size cuz often times people will C-bet their A-high hands like AK and AQ, which you are now ahead of. If villian continues to be aggressive or A, K come on later streets and villian bets you can find a fold imo

For myself, I'm curious as to how to play this oop. When should we be folding JJ oop to 3bets? Being out of position diminishes our implied odds with a set and makes it harder to play should we not hit a set, but at the same time if villian has a very strong 3b range then they may not find a lot of folds vs our set. Iunno I'm really curious what others have to say

-e- I guess in some weird way JJ is basically 22 against a very strong 3b range so I guess we fold????

Thanks for the help everyone!

you can't fold flop unless you're 100 % sure villain only 3 bets Ax hands... call and think about folding turn if he fires one more time. or raise flop.

On July 05 2012 22:58 idonklife wrote: you can't fold flop unless you're 100 % sure villain only 3 bets Ax hands... call and think about folding turn if he fires one more time. or raise flop.

sure you can

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,650 games 0.066 secs 525,000 games/sec

Board: 4d As 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 85.853% 85.85% 00.00% 29748 0.00 { QQ+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 1: 14.147% 14.15% 00.00% 4902 0.00 { JcJh }


I messed around in pokerstove a bit more and it looks like you're break even when his 3b range is around 10%, but even then there are so many hands that either kill you or won't put any more money in the pot if you're ahead. Also if he double barrels you have to fold so you'll make mistakes against his air if he's even 3betting those hands