answering questions on this hand - Page 2

If you dont bet that flop Pokerintheface I think you are making a big mistake.

At lower levels especially raises get called by setminers or gamblers or flush draws etc, etc.

Bet the flop in this situation in my opinion at lower levels 100%

There now your my student

On November 08 2006 10:59 Pokerintheface wrote: also, you seem to not have responded to this post, could you offer some thoughts real quick? Show nested quote + On November 08 2006 10:11 Pokerintheface wrote: and at these stakes is AK really going to pay you off to a checkraise? maybe you could induce a 3-bet ai by KQ or QJ, but it seems like this board is really too scary for lots of hands to pay you off except KJ sometimes, i guess, but even KJ is close to a fold when facing a checkraise on this board (i guess it's opponent dependent though, but you are still repping a LOT of strength c/ring from the big blind on this board). it's really dubious for him to put you on a flush draw checkraising on a broadway board, because you'd be generally inclined to believe that the PFR nailed this board and hence you'd have little fold equity (and it's not that hard for him to hold the nuts), so he will not be likely to believe that you're c/ring for fold equity because you'd be scared that the PFR hit this board unless you hit it with a nut-like hand (like JJ), so i don't know if KJ is going to pay you off here often. and JT especially not. potting thrice may get more value from AK than a checkraise, which may induce him to pitch it ont he flop.

I sort of answered it but you had to read into what I said I guess.(heres some hints)

AK might pay me off if I check raise and third player is in as there is great odds
Who says Im check raising???????

well i play 3/6, does that count as a low limit?

i don't quite understand when you say if you don't bet the flop you're making a big mistake, do you mean to checkraise the flop is a mistake? or to not checkraise is a mistake? or what?

kind of confusing; are you saying checkraising is good at 25/50 but leading is better at lower limits?

Im saying that when you raise and this is the flop and you get 2 callers(from any position for simplicity)

BET THIS FLOP ALWAYS

oh... :x i tend to check a lot in 3-way pots on coordinated boards like this if i miss, since i'm not an avid 2-barreler. maybe i should start doing that more.

so basically you're trying to say that you're trying to represent isolating the shortstack with a hand that is possibly worse than AK? but still it seems kind of dubious, since the hands that he beats with AK he only has like a 60% edge over (pair+sd type hands), and there are a lot of hands that he's behind also...

if the player in the middle were fullstacked, how would you play the hand differently?

On November 08 2006 11:05 thorladen wrote: Im saying that when you raise and this is the flop and you get 2 callers(from any position for simplicity) BET THIS FLOP ALWAYS

whats the reasoning behind this?, its a very coordinated draw heavy board, your very likely to get a call or a raise, as pokerintheface stated. if so how would you plan to play on turn & river if:

1 caller, he checks blank turn (do you second barrel or give up?

if you give up with the hand if u get a call i think its ev- since i think u will get a call/raise over 50% of the time on that flop 3 way.

daemonicus read the thread or don't post

your statement has nothing to do with anything that anybody is talking about

and you didnt, you were totally lost, im saying why as a pf raiser u should bet 3 way in this coordinated board if ur extremely likely to get called, and u wont know if its either by a draw or a made hand so 2nd bullet sux vs draw and 3rd bullet sux vs made hand.

I guess he is saying it's a very bad flop for set miners?

yes its very reasonable to assume this flop will be bet. i think i probably lean towards check calling too. it clearly represents having a draw and creates a much larger opportunity to stack a the pfr. if a crappy turn comes its a small pot and if it doesnt work out thats ok too - not too much invested. even if pfr checks flop its not completely unreasonable to assume that you can get near his whole stack in on river if he has any kind of hand since hes short enough

Gross.. its like when u get to 5/10 and above you have to do everything backwards.

I'm pretty confused by the recommendation of c-betting this flop 100% of the time in a mw pot too.. at stakes like 1,2 and 2,4 you're very likely to get action....

i guess a double barrel on a safe turn will fold out most draws.. and the really strong hands like KJ and 1010 are likely to be check-raising on such a dangerous board. but there are alot of stations that are sticking around to the river with qj and k9, and KQ is a possible calldown hand as well. in fact at 1,2 there are so many stations that im pretty certain that cbetting/2barreling this board is -ev.

2 barreling wont make draws fold wtf..

do you seriously think a draw check/calls check/folds? no -.-

well if you opponents have a certain # of hands in their range. If they call with more hands then they fold with doesnt that make cbetting -EV? I guess the reason to cbet here would be because hes last to act. If he has a low pp and cbets flop he might be able to check down vs a draw, or if he has a draw and cbets he might be able to bluff out a weaker made hands on the turn/make draws fold. But I dont rly see the point in cbetting unless you have a pair or a draw.

On November 08 2006 18:31 Baal wrote: 2 barreling wont make draws fold wtf.. do you seriously think a draw check/calls check/folds? no -.-

1 card to come and a very transparent line?
ya i think they just might.