PokerStars buys FTP for $750mln(?) - Page 7

not really sure what motivation pokertars has to buy FTP, except for the zoom poker patent. which I guess they figure must be iron clad strong/they will be able to enforce it and dominate the USA market with a product which no one can legally compete against them with (lame IMO)

the name is pretty useless to them. they're already pokerstars. + FTP's name is soiled.

any other motivations?

also is zoom patented outside of the US? how does that work?

lol publicity stunts, hey guys FTP is giving all your moneys back, visit www.tlpoker.la for more information

On July 27 2012 14:18 AndrewSong wrote: we fly high no lie u know this bAAAAAALLIN

Keep dreamin broski, by the time you get your stacks back, the Mexican peso will be worth more than your green backs.

Stars has a ton of motivation to buy FTP.

-if a major site fails to pay back players than general trust in the industry is gone
-possibility to negotiate and reduce the fine imposed by the doj by taking on the FTP debt
-basically prevent anyone else from owning FTP software. Because we all know after stars and FTP the rest is basically shit.

There are probably more reasons driving stars to make this purchase but those are the obvious three for me

On July 28 2012 08:09 Bigbobm wrote: Stars has a ton of motivation to buy FTP. -possibility to negotiate and reduce the fine imposed by the doj by taking on the FTP debt

this is the only reason that holds weight imo. the other 2 are just things we pretend to matter in hopes that they pay us back. even if stars did not buy ftp and pay us the money that howard stole from us it would not tarnish their reputation at all, because when shit hit the fan stars cashed out our rolls pretty fkn fast. stars has long paid its dues to gain our trust, and the only reason they would buy ftp is not for rush poker (lol, they already have fkn zoom poker as if they need something stupid like rush) is so they dont get jailed/ass raped by bubbas crew

I don't get it, what about the deal gives them power against the DOJ.. if anything it sounds like they are taking on more liability. The DOJ didn't attack the online sites because they weren't managing player's money properly. Their attack is what caused the player's to lose their money in the first place.

DOJ doesn't give a shit about the players. I don't understand how buying FTP gives Stars more negotiating power against criminal charges.

Also Khan, if the Rush poker patent is strong and able to be upheld in the court of law, Stars would want to buy it because otherwise another company could buy FTP and sue, therefore making it very difficult for Stars to continue spreading zoom poker games (since its the same fuckin thing...). Now Stars instead has the legit/original patent for Speed/Zoom/Rush poker games and can rape anyone else who tries to spread it.
No?

I didn't know they wanted rush to prevent being sued. I thought they wanted rush because they wanted rush. That of course, would make the incentive that bob posted make a lot more sense to me now :D

well this is just my speculation under the assumptions (correct me if I'm wrong.. I really don't know more than what has been posted in some articles on LP)

1. rush is patented in the USA (and that, as typical, it is a broad patent which protects any system which rapidly deals poker hands and shuffles tables)
2. zoom poker is basically identical in function to rush, along with partpoker's new speed hold'em


idk, maybe stuff like faith in the industry really does have an effect on Stars' decision here.

it just doesn't (to me only, maybe?) seem to be a strong enough reason to spend 750mln on the company

furthermore mergers & acquisitions are typically extremely expensive and, on their face, a losing deal for the acquiring company
so I'm searching for some kind of real monetary incentive for Stars

FTP failed to obtain a patent for Rush Poker afaik, so I wouldn't consider this a motive.

oh well that shoots my idea all to crap, thanks


now I really hope bob elaborates on how it will give stars' power to negotiate with doj.... !

FTP software was very nice. but 50, 75, 100 million nice?

dunno.

It's just to protect themselves. Keep in mind the DOJ is trying to put isai in jail so they are going to do everything their power to prevent that. What's the big deal even if buying FTP for rush/other random reasons is largely -EV if it almost guarantees you wont see a day in jail time? The guy has billions of dollars pretty sure he wouldnt wanna drop the soap just to save some money. The huge plus side to this IMO is winning the hearts of all poker players forever. Even if this comes off as a calculated decision it will seal them as the greatest heroes of all time to like 99% of the poker playing population. That in itself is a novelty that I could see as a primary motive outside of avoiding jail time

I didn't really think about how jailtime was actually on the table here (it so rarely is for financial crimes.. even when deserved), but it is definitely a reality now that the absolute guy was sent to jail. A billionaire type might definitely be willing to gamble an extra chunk of one of the company's he owns equity in order to lessen the chance of jail.

On July 28 2012 18:40 Defrag wrote: FTP failed to obtain a patent for Rush Poker afaik, so I wouldn't consider this a motive.

This is not true. They have pending US and European applications.

Considering it is likely a novel concept (i.e., I doubt there are publications/inventions disclosing any rush poker variant) it will likely patent with very large coverage. This likely means that whoever owns the patent may likely own rush poker and can likely recover a considerable amount of damages from whoever uses rush poker. FTP was smart going after patent coverage. Pokerstars should do the same with their software features IMO.

I don't think it's right at all to say DOJ doesn't care about the players. If that was the case they would have dumped FTP to GBT long ago with the shit repayment plan. Also if players do get shafted at this point, DOJ is probably going to take a lot of shit for it one way or another. Being an election year this isn't something that they want on their plate.

It's also been mentioned a few times that DOJs priority is getting the players their money back. If stars is willing to repay players, DOJ will be thrilled. This is a ton of leverage for stars. They can cut fines, dodge some jail time, and restore a lot of confidence and professionalism in poker that FTP raped away.

lots of fuckery in the poker world. people should just khan style FTP news

is keeping Zoom worth $750M?? I hardly think so. I could be wrong of course, but unless it's wildly popular I don't see this as a real motivator.

I also don't think "sending people to jail" is the big motivator either, they are looking to avoid trials, make deals, confiscate money, and have their cases go unchallenged. So it may be that this "sale" is part of a forth coming plea agreement

On July 29 2012 00:30 curtinsea wrote: I also don't think "sending people to jail" is the big motivator either, they are looking to avoid trials, make deals, confiscate money, and have their cases go unchallenged. So it may be that this "sale" is part of a forth coming plea agreement

if youre looking at it from FTPs point of view, a plea agreement is exactly how they are avoiding any chance of jail time.
from DOJ's point of view, they have always been using the threat of jail/trial/fines to force this path. they have to actually be ready for this option though to make this a serious threat, and based on whats happening to bitar and the guy from UB they are.

On July 28 2012 21:19 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On July 28 2012 18:40 Defrag wrote: FTP failed to obtain a patent for Rush Poker afaik, so I wouldn't consider this a motive. This is not true. They have pending US and European applications. Considering it is likely a novel concept (i.e., I doubt there are publications/inventions disclosing any rush poker variant) it will likely patent with very large coverage. This likely means that whoever owns the patent may likely own rush poker and can likely recover a considerable amount of damages from whoever uses rush poker. FTP was smart going after patent coverage. Pokerstars should do the same with their software features IMO.

First of all, it's important to point out that FTP didn't invent Rush Poker, they just paid a third party for the exclusive rights to use it. The patent itself was filled in 2007, you can see it here: Rush Poker patent.
I have no idea if they would want to buy the intellectual rights to it later after it was patented though, obviously.

Second thing, even that FTP is non-operational atm, that doesn't mean that company doesn't exist. I don't think a poker room so strong as PokerStars would risk implementing Zoom Poker if they think there was a chance for them being sued and having to remove the product from their offer. So they either cut the deal with original idea owners or their lawyers assured them that there is no chance for the patent to be granted (considering all networks already have rush a-likes, I would guess it's the second).

On July 29 2012 14:13 Defrag wrote: Show nested quote + On July 28 2012 21:19 Maynard! wrote:   On July 28 2012 18:40 Defrag wrote: FTP failed to obtain a patent for Rush Poker afaik, so I wouldn't consider this a motive. This is not true. They have pending US and European applications. Considering it is likely a novel concept (i.e., I doubt there are publications/inventions disclosing any rush poker variant) it will likely patent with very large coverage. This likely means that whoever owns the patent may likely own rush poker and can likely recover a considerable amount of damages from whoever uses rush poker. FTP was smart going after patent coverage. Pokerstars should do the same with their software features IMO. First of all, it's important to point out that FTP didn't invent Rush Poker, they just paid a third party for the exclusive rights to use it. The patent itself was filled in 2007, you can see it here: Rush Poker patent. I have no idea if they would want to buy the intellectual rights to it later after it was patented though, obviously. Second thing, even that FTP is non-operational atm, that doesn't mean that company doesn't exist. I don't think a poker room so strong as PokerStars would risk implementing Zoom Poker if they think there was a chance for them being sued and having to remove the product from their offer. So they either cut the deal with original idea owners or their lawyers assured them that there is no chance for the patent to be granted (considering all networks already have rush a-likes, I would guess it's the second).

Ah. I was looking at a different application owned by pocketkings. It looked the same and I'm obviously too lazy to read the specification. In either event, it doesn't matter that FTP didn't invent it. All that really matters is who owns it.

It appears that someone is still paying attorneys to do work as late as March 2012. The work done is related to similar publications that must be sent to the patent office. Since publications have been sent to the patent office this means that FTP or an interested party in direct contact with FTP conducted searches. They are likely doing this to determine the patentability and value of these applications.

I think pokerstars would just move ahead and wouldn't care if they infringe. Too much $ to be made. They can just pay damages later if it is found that they infringe. From what I can tell, this is what most companies do.

It might be worth something?