New Car... Need help choosing - Page 2

i think bmw 1 series, hard top convertible is pretty sexy :o

pay cash or don't buy at all. I learned that the hard way

From those I would chose the 370Z

The SLK would be cool...
























if you were a female hairdresser

On September 27 2012 09:30 Svenman87 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2012 03:46 Silver_nz wrote:   On September 27 2012 03:22 Svenman87 wrote:   On September 27 2012 03:17 Silver_nz wrote: avoid any debts. don't be like greece. ... not sure if serious :3 if you have good credit you can often times get a really good rate on an auto loan as well as idk why people think debt = bad. If you can't manage your debt then yes it's of course bad. But if you manage it well there isn't a lot to be scared of. semi srs, though I don't know your position though obv. Debt is fine... for an asset that is generating money. but for a luxury item that you only want for a sense of nostaligia, its just opening up a whole can of worms. I'm just sayian, look at it objectively, how it weakens your overall position in life to try to carry this mountain of debt. -do the math. your car loan is going to be at what 5% interest? lets say you only take out $20k and take 3 years to pay it off. you're going to be giving away at least $2k just to the bankers. let alot the depreciation value that will dissapear as soon as you drive it off the lot. -Everyone thinks 'they can handle it', same as in poker, everyone think they are good enough. but they are deluding themselves, the money leaks away. And on top of that, life has a way of throwing the unexpected at us. an earthquake, a car accident, an debilitating illness, unexpected pregnancy, runner runner straight flush bad beat at bobbys room. -It's very wasteful: the car doesn't have alot of survival value, like real estate would. its empty, its fragile. -this huge purchase chains you down and means you can't move easily. welcome to the rat race. unless you have alot of money in the bank, and 50k is a drop in ocean to you, don't make a vanity purchase imo. buy a car that does the job. buy Toyota! (2nd hand ofc) I suppose it's all up to your personal situation like you were stating, 50k isn't a drop in the bucket, but I have good credit for my age and I'm only willing to finance up to 25k I feel like it's very manageable. Also I should put the fact that resell value is important to me, which is another spot where the 370z comes in, has one of the best resale values of any car listed. Again it's all how you manage your personal finances, some people can't do it.

I'm not a debt adverse person at all so I understand what you're saying and have made similar decision myself. However, how do you justify to yourself that you're buying a luxury item in such a -EV way? Like it's not just the money you lose on interest and the depreciation of the car but the opportunity cost of that 50k. Also doesn't it feel kind of fake to you to buy a luxury status symbol with borrowed money?

btw I bought a lotus for 65k as my first car and used 1/2 my bankroll to get it against the advice of 99% of the people i talked to about it and definitely regret it.

What do you do for a living sven? poker?

On September 27 2012 10:51 Smuft wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2012 09:30 Svenman87 wrote:   On September 27 2012 03:46 Silver_nz wrote:   On September 27 2012 03:22 Svenman87 wrote:   On September 27 2012 03:17 Silver_nz wrote: avoid any debts. don't be like greece. ... not sure if serious :3 if you have good credit you can often times get a really good rate on an auto loan as well as idk why people think debt = bad. If you can't manage your debt then yes it's of course bad. But if you manage it well there isn't a lot to be scared of. semi srs, though I don't know your position though obv. Debt is fine... for an asset that is generating money. but for a luxury item that you only want for a sense of nostaligia, its just opening up a whole can of worms. I'm just sayian, look at it objectively, how it weakens your overall position in life to try to carry this mountain of debt. -do the math. your car loan is going to be at what 5% interest? lets say you only take out $20k and take 3 years to pay it off. you're going to be giving away at least $2k just to the bankers. let alot the depreciation value that will dissapear as soon as you drive it off the lot. -Everyone thinks 'they can handle it', same as in poker, everyone think they are good enough. but they are deluding themselves, the money leaks away. And on top of that, life has a way of throwing the unexpected at us. an earthquake, a car accident, an debilitating illness, unexpected pregnancy, runner runner straight flush bad beat at bobbys room. -It's very wasteful: the car doesn't have alot of survival value, like real estate would. its empty, its fragile. -this huge purchase chains you down and means you can't move easily. welcome to the rat race. unless you have alot of money in the bank, and 50k is a drop in ocean to you, don't make a vanity purchase imo. buy a car that does the job. buy Toyota! (2nd hand ofc) I suppose it's all up to your personal situation like you were stating, 50k isn't a drop in the bucket, but I have good credit for my age and I'm only willing to finance up to 25k I feel like it's very manageable. Also I should put the fact that resell value is important to me, which is another spot where the 370z comes in, has one of the best resale values of any car listed. Again it's all how you manage your personal finances, some people can't do it. I'm not a debt adverse person at all so I understand what you're saying and have made similar decision myself. However, how do you justify to yourself that you're buying a luxury item in such a -EV way? Like it's not just the money you lose on interest and the depreciation of the car but the opportunity cost of that 50k. Also doesn't it feel kind of fake to you to buy a luxury status symbol with borrowed money? btw I bought a lotus for 65k as my first car and used 1/2 my bankroll to get it against the advice of 99% of the people i talked to about it and definitely regret it.

Insert GT-R for like 20-30% of BR and definitely regret it. Don't buy a luxury car on credit imo. It definitely isn't worth it

what silver_nz said

+10

Seems kind of hypocritical since I got to own a luxury car at age 24, and now my current cars are on loan to allow leverage to have a bigger BR, so disclaimer there, but think about it like this: Should I buy a car with ALL of my money, or should I buy a car with MORE THAN ALL OF MY MONEY? (Check out this article on buying expensive cars) Both are bad if you have the means to avoid it. If you're not retired yet, buy a 10-15k max car that will last you until you can afford to buy your dream car in cash if you really want it.

Assuming you are buying the car to own for a few years only and reselling at 25% less than you paid, I will assume 0% interest to give you the best possible result. Initial "investment" 25k, tied up for 5 years. 25k future dollars tied up for 5 years. I'll assume you pay off the car and then sell it immediately after so 50k total spent. In that time when you sell it you will lose $12,500. Not too bad for 5 years of ownership. But you also lose out, as others have said, on the opportunity cost of 50k. 25k invested at 7% historical return along with 5k additions each year for 5 years would leave you with $65,830.25 in 5 years time. So you are actually throwing away $28,330.25 (65,830.25-37,500), and that is the BEST CASE SCENARIO, not factoring in higher insurance and maintenance, and any interest rate above 0% for 5 years and 75% resale value which is unheard of for a new car.

What you are really looking at over that 5 year period is a lot more likely to be a much larger loss greater than the cost of the car.

Again, I'm not a trained professional and I've made mistakes too. Just trying to help.

Link to an article of the top 10 consumer reports cars and why they're so good .
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/19/top-10-cars-for-smart-people/
Maybe in the future you'll be able to tell your grandchildren how awesome you are for deciding not to buy that 50k car and how it made you 100's of thousands of dollars deciding not to do it.

Compound interest source: http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm

On September 27 2012 10:52 DaEm0niCuS wrote: What do you do for a living sven? poker?

I work at a bank as a tech specialist.

I also think there are some really good points made by some people in this thread.

I'm very comfortable in my personal retirement plan, 6% from me 6% matching from my employer going right into my Roth 401k, I also have a Roth IRA, as well as I'm beginning to mess about a bit with the stock market (aka lose $ as I learn wtf I'm doing)

I also have been saving for a house which is on hold for at least another year since signing a lease to an apartment, as well as saving for a car for the past 4 years.



I'm not sure if I'll sway away from getting a sports car, but I think I may sway away from financing a brand new sports car and may just pay cash for a lightly used car - Thoughts on this tweak?

On September 27 2012 12:03 Svenman87 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2012 10:52 DaEm0niCuS wrote: What do you do for a living sven? poker? I work at a bank as a tech specialist. I also think there are some really good points made by some people in this thread. I'm very comfortable in my personal retirement plan, 6% from me 6% matching from my employer going right into my Roth 401k, I also have a Roth IRA, as well as I'm beginning to mess about a bit with the stock market (aka lose $ as I learn wtf I'm doing) I also have been saving for a house which is on hold for at least another year since signing a lease to an apartment, as well as saving for a car for the past 4 years. I'm not sure if I'll sway away from getting a sports car, but I think I may sway away from financing a brand new sports car and may just pay cash for a lightly used car - Thoughts on this tweak?

I mean if you absolutely have to have a sports car, the Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S (pretty much the same car) starts in the mid 20's and is pretty much the modern-day AE-86. It's RWD with a focus on balance over power and has gotten rave reviews from anyone who's driven one. I suspect that the car will last forever since it's a Toyota/Subaru combined project, and if you choose to resell it, I'm sure it will hold up well in that market, although personally I would wait for a well-taken-care-of used one to appear in a year or two as they were just released this year. That will also save you some headaches that may occur since it's the first release of a new vehicle; there may be recalls or other problems you would know about after it's been out a little while.

Link and pic

Motor Trend comparison of frs and brz to cars in its class.Link
Scion FR-S

Subaru BRZ

BMW M3 to be bawling.

rest are if you wanna be someone who tries to look baller but isn't.

+many points to what Silver said BUT the cars you're listing don't have to be that expensive. I will have to devil's advocate here and say once you've considered the warnings here, the choice is yours and you'll probably be fine either way as long as you don't get a Cayman or any car around that range unless you truly can afford to. But anyway, why do you need to get a new 370z? Just get one a couple years older and save prob ~5-10k for essentially the same car.

Glad wh00sel brought up the FRS/BRZ I would get those if I had to start all over again becuase it's a sweet car for its price (which is also what I thought about the 370z when it first came out). Def some "regrets" (now, post-bf etc. etc.) about my getting G37 but I absolutely love the car and would've done anything for it. It truly increased my happiness significantly, not so much due to its material value but just what it provided me as an automotive enthusiast.

So IMO get an FR-S, it's really sporty, quite cheap, still has some exclusivity while it's still a new car, but it will become increasingly common eventually, but it's inevitable and you won't be getting exclusivity with a 370z either by far. OR if it's up to those 3 cars get a 370z it's the fastest car stock with great aftermarket options. Unless you prefer the american-ness of the Mustang (disclaimer I'm asian and would prefer the 370z over a mustang any day)

Having owned both a 2012 370z and a 2012 Mustang GT, I like the Mustang best. It's bigger, but not too big, more roomy, but still feels sporty, and overall a more comfortable ride. The Z is a real head turner and attracts a lot of attention. But I kinda felt like it was trying to be something that it's not, and that's a porsche. It's sort of the poor man's exotic car, since it has all of the styling cues of much more expensive cars at 1/3 the price. My biggest problem with it however was the lack of visibility and tremendous road noise. The 2013 model hasnt improved on any of it either. You cannot see out the left and right side windows behind you, and the mirrors dont cover the blind spots. You have to angle them at really steep wide angles to even remotely be able to make safe lane merges. The car has virtually no insulation and as a result you hear and feel every vibration on the road. I could literally hear the sand and pebbles that you normally wouldnt even think exist on a completely standard piece of asphalt just driving 20 mph in a neighborhood. It sounded like some sort of hail coming up from under my car. It's kind of a "wtf?" moment. At higher speeds this is drowned out by pure road noise. It even makes casual conversations difficult. After an hour your voice would probably be tired from speaking louder than you normally would just to hear each other. I also found the lack of any usable backseat space to be a bit of a downer. I knew this going into the deal, but didnt really recognize how annoying it would be to have a car SO DAMN SMALL.

Other than that, it's a flat out sexy ass car and feels great to drive. Fits like a glove, very snug on the road, and you can just tell it's begging for you to corner it hard.

The mustang has everything the Z does not. The only thing it lacks is road presence, since mustangs are a dime a dozen and you see them everywhere. Thats why I went out of my way to customize mine and make it unique. For the price of a stock Z you can get a tricked out mustang. If Nissan sound proofed their car, and improved rear visibility I'd probably get one again, even though I love my mustang. As it stands now, I would never own one. Make sure you test drive it to find out.

Interesting thread. It's funny that a poker forum 5 years later might actually be one of the best places to ask the "should I make this x "baller" purchase?" question.

I didn't read every point but the ones I did were pretty good. Certainly a lot of good anecdotal personal experiences.

Some questions I would ask yourself:

Will you be able to enjoy driving it balls to the wall and afford the increased costs in insurance, maintenance, etc?

Is it a baller penthouse suite in somalia type of situation?

Are you going to have to lock yourself in a shitty apartment and eat cereal from Aldi in order to make the purchase?

Will you be able to valet park and enjoy a night out or worry about parking and/or be strapped for cash buying dinner/drinks?

I also agree with all that typically buying luxury goods with credit is a horrible idea and the "fakeness" of it and negative impact on self-esteem should be a consideration.

Where I disagree with some is the (true) (intangible) value of having an actual unique, bad ass car. People who can't afford tend to drastically undervalue whereas the people who can and do afford are not actually rationalizing or overvaluing when they discuss the benefits. Since the benefits are intangible and the non-owners will never experience them (with financial comfort) it just leads to pointless arguments and rationalizations from cheap people but I guess I am just stream of consciousness writing again at this point and that is an observation not only on luxury cars but any luxury good.

^^ indeed, there is some value to self-indulgence. It's like buying a nice watch, nice clothes, nice food, nice anything. There are tons of things we own which depreciate in value. That smart decision on the 250k house you bought which might net you some profit in 10 years is full of crap that is worth less now then when you bought it. But you enjoy looking at your decorations when you come home. To some, a car is a decoration. My car is more than just a way to get from point A to point B. I actually enjoy the act of driving. I like sitting behind the wheel. As a result, when I'm doing it I want to have fun with it. I like a fast car that responds when I command it. I like the style and look of it, and the ways in which I can modify it. I like that my friends enjoy riding with me in it. I like the way it fucking looks when I walk to the parking lot lol.

On September 27 2012 11:32 thewh00sel wrote: 25k invested at 7% historical return along with 5k additions each year for 5 years would leave you with $65,830.25 in 5 years time.

The $5,000 additions would probably come at the end of each period. I know it's splitting hairs and doesn't matter here but it does change it by a couple of thousand ($63,817.4883) and might affect other calculations you have/are working on. If in doubt draw a timeline.

And get a 350z instead.

you should be putting your name down for a Subaru BRZ if you actually want a high quality, amazing driving sport car.

If you all you want is flashy coupe to impress people with a name, then you should be looking for used 3/m coupes, used A5/S5

I am not sure why nobody has mentioned or even thought of the LEXUS ISF!!



Ex-claimer: not an ISF but my IS350 which was $42K.

On September 27 2012 09:38 mnj wrote: i think bmw 1 series, hard top convertible is pretty sexy :o

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the 1 series only comes with a soft top.

I know ure looking for a performance car, but why not go for luxury + performance? I mean I think this is one of the best cars in that category:
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicles/2013/equus/performance.aspx?