Sam Harris on "Free Will" - Page 2

ye so not the worst ^_-

I posted this on TL a while back. Absolutely love Sam Harris.

His views on free will are certainly very interesting and I am inclined to believe what he's saying give his expertise in neuroscience and given how highly I value his other writings and appearances. I'm okay with the idea of not having free will to be honest, and I think a lot of the hostility that's generated towards this topic (specifically towards Mr. Harris's views) are out of fear that we neurologically cannot control what our bodies do in many instances.

there was a thread a few months ago on TL about how pathogens and other things also help control our impulses to do things aswell. very interesting though i havent been able to find it

i loled at 1 hour mark (ish) when a kid in audience asked him "on a personal level" when this train of thought started for him, and he asks like 3 times what kind of personal experiences that led him to it, and he just goes around it

CMON GUY WE ALL KNOW IT WAS PSYCHADELICS

Don't have much to add here, but awesome guy, spent over 10 - 15 hours on him as well xD

Went through some talks, read some on his blog. Read the reddit threads, and the Youtube 1 hour ones where he responds to the top comments. Pretty sweet. Feels like he's got a lot of iQ. He also has a Ted talk.

And he has this thingy, where some muscles in his inner ear keep thumbing really fast. And they can't get rid of it, like some muscle spasm thingy. It's a bitch, cuz sometimes if u sleep to long on ur ear, you'll get it for a few hours.

On October 14 2012 06:30 longple wrote: i loled at 1 hour mark (ish) when a kid in audience asked him "on a personal level" when this train of thought started for him, and he asks like 3 times what kind of personal experiences that led him to it, and he just goes around it CMON GUY WE ALL KNOW IT WAS PSYCHADELICS

Lol, it was such a silly question though. He's a neuroscientist and has a major in philosophy I believe, so obviously he went to school and studied the whole free will vs determinism debate and there's nothing personal to it.

On October 14 2012 19:32 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 14 2012 06:30 longple wrote: i loled at 1 hour mark (ish) when a kid in audience asked him "on a personal level" when this train of thought started for him, and he asks like 3 times what kind of personal experiences that led him to it, and he just goes around it CMON GUY WE ALL KNOW IT WAS PSYCHADELICS Lol, it was such a silly question though. He's a neuroscientist and has a major in philosophy I believe, so obviously he went to school and studied the whole free will vs determinism debate and there's nothing personal to it.

are you guessing or know that he didnt take them?

I wouldnt be surprised at all if he did i mean... Carl Sagan probably took more acid than a car battery

On October 14 2012 19:45 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 14 2012 19:32 Loco wrote:   On October 14 2012 06:30 longple wrote: i loled at 1 hour mark (ish) when a kid in audience asked him "on a personal level" when this train of thought started for him, and he asks like 3 times what kind of personal experiences that led him to it, and he just goes around it CMON GUY WE ALL KNOW IT WAS PSYCHADELICS Lol, it was such a silly question though. He's a neuroscientist and has a major in philosophy I believe, so obviously he went to school and studied the whole free will vs determinism debate and there's nothing personal to it. are you guessing or know that he didnt take them? I wouldnt be surprised at all if he did i mean... Carl Sagan probably took more acid than a car battery

If I were to guess, I would guess that he has taken psychedelics at some point in his life, simply because he has an interest in mysticism and that doesn't get ignited easily when you are very rational and secular in your views.

But I don't think he came to see free will as illusory from a subjective perspective (if indeed he did) before having studied the topic objectively. Clearly, Harris' interest in philosophy started at a young age and it's just obvious that he'd get into the subject rather fast and that this is more likely than some kind of early special subjective experience.

Watched the video, logical, but still have some sort of dissonance between my mind and my heart. Well it's more like my mind and my other mind. I've always believed in cause and effect, and when broken down, I understand that humans are made of mere atoms, and all atoms follow physical laws, and therefore we do as well. And more than this, that like a billiards ball, some atom in the big bang hit some other atom which hit some other atom and is now face or in my brain etc. Still I feel as though I am making conscious, logical decisions through many inputs, and yes given the correct conditions, I will always come to the same conclusion....but still...damn.

Maybe you can watch some of Dennett's stuff and it will make you feel a bit better.



I think some of it is pretty silly, but I can see how it can comfort people. Compatibilism, that is.

So, I've been asked by Marshall to present a case against free will. Since I already made this thread a while ago I'm gonna bump it so he can go through it.

If you don't want to watch the long videos Marshall, here's a short one by Harris:



He has a book on the subject as well which is consistent with my own views.

Another quick video:



And a quick read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-...ee-will-is-an-illusion_b_1562533.html


This should bring you up to date. If you want to debate anything in these I'll respond.

Fake and gay.

any guides on mediation?

You don't really need a guide for meditation. Like Sam says, the only thing you have to do is pay attention to your breathing, and really focus just on that as much as you possibly can. At first it's pretty hard, but the more you do it the less thoughts will wander in your mind while you meditate. If there are thoughts all you have to do is not attach yourself to them, not try to control them, just let them happen while you try to focus back on your breathing.

Two other things that can be helpful is to set some time (at first maybe just 5 or 10 minutes) per day every day dedicated to the practice. And if you have something like an iPhone you can download an app that has binaural beats and a timer to help with the meditation. Otherwise just some background stable ambient noise might help. I know not everyone likes those for meditation but I like it personally.

Do you even lift ?

Hey Loco, is there a specific time in the day you think meditating is particularly useful/effective, in the sense that it is easier to meditate? I have been alotting about 20-30 minutes a day meditating, but as you said, all these other thoughts come into my consciousness and I try and let them run its course, but sometimes it is literally 20-30 minutes of worrying because I am not working Q_Q

On November 30 2012 16:30 mnj wrote: Hey Loco, is there a specific time in the day you think meditating is particularly useful/effective, in the sense that it is easier to meditate? I have been alotting about 20-30 minutes a day meditating, but as you said, all these other thoughts come into my consciousness and I try and let them run its course, but sometimes it is literally 20-30 minutes of worrying because I am not working Q_Q

obv you get better by practising, keep going

lag/dbl post

On November 30 2012 16:30 mnj wrote: Hey Loco, is there a specific time in the day you think meditating is particularly useful/effective, in the sense that it is easier to meditate? I have been alotting about 20-30 minutes a day meditating, but as you said, all these other thoughts come into my consciousness and I try and let them run its course, but sometimes it is literally 20-30 minutes of worrying because I am not working Q_Q

Yeah, I forgot to mention it... morning is generally accepted as the best, because we feel "fresh"... unlike at night, when all of the stories of our day and what we've been involved in constantly loops in our mind when we try to meditate. Personally I'm always starving in the morning so I couldn't meditate when I wake up, (plus it would be awkward in the sense that you could just fall asleep again)... so a quick meal and a meditation session works best.

Meditation is pretty much impossible if you have big worries that are owning you. Your life needs to be simple and peaceful (imo). I haven't done a lot of serious meditation in the past because of that. I had to simplify my life first. The best thing you can do if you feel stuck and unable to do these sessions is to condition yourself to be conscious of your breathing whenever you get bored, have downtime or you're waiting. You don't have to meditate only when you're alone, sitting some place with the intent to meditate. Any time is a proper time to meditate and learn to shut off the world. All you have to do is be in a position where you don't absolutely have to think and put all your attention on your breathing. You can do this many times every day and over time it will become second nature and will make the larger meditation sessions easier, especially the first 0 to 10 mins from them.