UFC 154: St-Pierre vs. Condit - Page 7

i am always intrigued by fighters that have virtually no wrestling yet can succeed at the highest levels. As of right now that list is 3: anderson, condit and nick diaz. nate diaz as well i suppose.

Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. He relies on figuring out his opponents tendencies, stopping their takedowns and mauling them when they make a mistake.

condit is a good striker, but hes not a straight killer like anderson or the best boxer like nick. he occasionally gets a knockout, but the majority of his wins are on the ground. he has awful takedown defense, but is MUCH better than anderson off his back. although their guards are probably similar in terms of submission skill, condit's guard game is way better because he lands strikes, prevents people from passing him, can get back to his feet, forces scrambles and has great sweeps. in the postfight presser GSP made an amazing point: even though condit almost never actually gets a takedown he is in top position the majority of the time he is on the ground. hes very tricky and good at baiting people into making mistakes. so while he has no wrestling he has great success on the ground.

nick diaz has his own unique style as well. but what makes nick diaz worse than the other two fighters is that his style is less forcing. with the exception of gsp, fitch and possibly rory, i would favor condit over any welterweight in a 5 round fight. along with the aforementioned 3 guys, i think nick would also be an underdog to koscheck, pierce, maia, and maybe even hendricks (not sure if he can stuff all of nicks sub attempts as well as the others). the problem is that he isnt dangerous enough in a short period of time on the feet and its just too hard to submit elite fighters off your back. being able to get back up, sweep and do damage with strikes off your back is far more important than being able to armbar non elite guys well.


anyway, my point is that condit is a beast and in elite company with his skills. there isnt a single person in the division who can stop GSPs takedowns. what made condit an interesting fight (besides the knockdown) was that condit has more tools off his back than basically everyone else in the division. hes a true hero

Dos Santos?

oh diaz > condit as well.

what a silly fight that was.

sure he got more "strikes" off but seriously, the guy ran around the cage the entire 5 rounds, literally ran.

It's one thing to be agile and create space and angles to counter, but what condit did in that fight was just silly.

look at all his fights leading up to gsp.

he beats ellengberg by split decision lol
he lost to martin kampann
he beat an inexperienced rory who still was dominating him the entire fight up to the third where over-confidence and inexperince most likely played a big part in the loss
knocked out dan hardy and kim who aren't elite contenders
then he runs around the ring for 25 mins vs diaz to get title shot vs gsp....

he got a really akward combination off and caught gsp with one kick during a 25 minute fight that he was dominated on the ground and the stand up... that's supposed to mean something?

On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back.

I completely disagree with this.
Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much.
I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage.
Condit is not even a black belt on bjj.

Who's fighting GSP next??

this was the easiest shove on an mma fighter i've ever seen in my life. FREE MONIES!!!!

kinda like the silva vs shonen 2 where silva was pretty underrated due to last fights fluke.

On November 19 2012 06:39 Raidern wrote: Dos Santos?

nah i dont consider him or aldo to have no wrestling. both have great takedowns and are nearly impossible to take down.

On November 19 2012 07:03 kaboom wrote: oh diaz > condit as well. what a silly fight that was. sure he got more "strikes" off but seriously, the guy ran around the cage the entire 5 rounds, literally ran. It's one thing to be agile and create space and angles to counter, but what condit did in that fight was just silly. look at all his fights leading up to gsp. he beats ellengberg by split decision lol he lost to martin kampann he beat an inexperienced rory who still was dominating him the entire fight up to the third where over-confidence and inexperince most likely played a big part in the loss knocked out dan hardy and kim who aren't elite contenders then he runs around the ring for 25 mins vs diaz to get title shot vs gsp.... he got a really akward combination off and caught gsp with one kick during a 25 minute fight that he was dominated on the ground and the stand up... that's supposed to mean something?

if you rewatch those fights youd probably be surprised...

-he got dropped by ellenberger early twice (which happens to literally everyone the guy has fought in the UFC), survived miraculously and came back to dominate the last ~8 minutes of the fight.

-i thought he won the kampmann fight. condit did way more the whole fight except kampmann just kept taking him down over and over and attempted more submissions in the first round. http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/887 however like gsp said, condit ended up on top by sweeping him quite a bit.

-rory did not dominate him at all. rory got a couple takedowns each round and actually did very little besides that. http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/2805
do those stats from the first 2 rounds look anything like domination? getting outstriked 2.5:1 over first 2 rounds but getting on top a few times and staying there long enough to win the rounds


condit is elite. if you look at the gsp fight objectively and take away the carlos knockdown, it was pretty equal on the feet overall and gsp basically got a bunch of takedowns, landed a couple nice elbows and did just stayed busy enough to not get stood up for 15 minutes. carlos did quite a bit of damage from his back and stopped almost all of gsps offense. there were no sub attempts, no dominant positions and very few big strikes landed outside of the couple elbows.

On November 19 2012 09:07 Minion wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back. I completely disagree with this. Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much. I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage. Condit is not even a black belt on bjj.

anderson gets the occasional sub off his back, but the usual story is that he gets taken down and he holds onto his opponent with a body triangle and prays the fight gets stood up.

-henderson took him down and he stayed there the whole round just clutching on doing nothing
-lutter took him down, passed and mounted him then gassed out horribly and died. granted anderson did have a nice sweep but the sub was vs a lutter who couldnt even breathe at that point
-leites took him down and he needed the ref to stand it back up to get to his feet
-sonnen took him down a few times and he never got back up once. and in the 2nd fight sonnen mounted him and anderson just laid there holding onto him waiting for the round to end. imagine if MMA didnt have round restarts and it just tried to simulate a fight. anderson NEVER would have gotten out of that mount and sonnen would have been on top of him in mount looking for a sub and landing some strikes forever.

anderson is tricky and very very smart. if he notices someone is making a mistake he will grab a submission. but really his bottom game is very weak compared to condit and diaz because its mostly passive and hes very bad at getting back to his feet from the position. but he does have MUCH MUCH better takedown defense than both of those guys

one thing i didnt mention that helps your case is the illegal upkick on okami. that was beautiful, just an amazing strike from that position. granted i dont think that helps him if someone passes to his half guard or anything, but it is a weapon that he should be allowed to use. it being illegal is just stupid.

but basically i do think anderson probably has better submissions off his back than condit, i think its just nearly impossible to submit an elite opponent off your back so its kind of a moot point. if the guy on top doesnt make mistakes you should not be able to submit him when hes able to punch you and you arent wearing a gi. it sucks but thats reality in mma today, so i just dont think andersons skills off his back are all that relevant

Well it's really hard to submit people no matter what position you're in if they don't make a mistake. I get your point though.

However, I think it was Eddie Bravo who talked about pulling guard and stated that it wasn't enough to have a good guard to get away with it, it has to be downright sick good. Case in point would be someone like Werdum who obviously had no chance vs Fedor except for "pulling guard" (or jumping on his ass and hope Fedor would follow). Dude had the same strategy vs Overeem who by almost anyone would be ranked top3 in the world right now and if he had just got Overeem in his guard he'd have a fairly good chance.

I think the problem with the guard in MMA is that you'll have to be really, really sick to be able to get away with playing it and even then most people will just go "fuck this, I'm outta here" and stand up.

I think Anderson recognises this and since he's such a sicko standing he'll just stall people out rather then going for subs (Sonnen fight excluded since he ran out of time and had to go for something, although he was fishing for that triangle for a while). I'll bet a lot of money that if he fought someone like Tyrone Spong he'd be pulling guard like someone who owns 10 gis and wears a damn rashguard to weddings.

It's just that most people have to good top game no days. Why would anyone train the guard? If you're a striker, TDD is better and if you're a wrestler you won't end up on your ass much anyway. That leaves BJJ-people but since they can't dictate where the fight will be going without a decent takedown game anyway they'll end up on top on the ground more then not in either case. Also, I guess top game is less variance then bottom since there's less risk of some fluke elbow cutting you etc.

I was surprised at how good Condit was off his back. He reminded me of Miguel Torres, with the good strikes and sub attempts.

I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore.

I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely.

On November 19 2012 15:10 KeanuReaver wrote: I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore. I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely.

In your post: Someone confirming he has never done full-contact martial arts. (Or is just generally bad at strategies)

Fighting is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Unbelievably exhausting. I'd imagine most people would guess they have cardio for 2.5-3 minutes at the rate
the UFC fighters fight. They don't. Not even close.

You tell me one good reason why the best (no-rules) stand-up striker in the world (period) should expand ridiculous amounts of energy
to energy inefficiently counter someone's G'n'P from inside his guard when he is notoriously good at neutralizing someone's G'n'P from inside his guard.

The fight will be stood up at the end of the round. Even if it's the final round you will have a worse shot at escaping or advancing from bottom guard if you didn't just exhaust yourself.

One good reason please.

On November 19 2012 15:40 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 15:10 KeanuReaver wrote: I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore. I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely. In your post: Someone confirming he has never done full-contact martial arts. (Or is just generally bad at strategies) Fighting is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Unbelievably exhausting. I'd imagine most people would guess they have cardio for 2.5-3 minutes at the rate the UFC fighters fight. They don't. Not even close. You tell me one good reason why the best (no-rules) stand-up striker in the world (period) should expand ridiculous amounts of energy to energy inefficiently counter someone's G'n'P from inside his guard when he is notoriously good at neutralizing someone's G'n'P from inside his guard. The fight will be stood up at the end of the round. Even if it's the final round you will have a worse shot at escaping or advancing from bottom guard if you didn't just exhaust yourself. One good reason please.

Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was. I probably lack the experience of many here because of 12+ years of knee problems (and other health problems I don't care to get into) but I've trained with plenty of competitive grapplers and amateur/professional fighters and am currently rehabbing at XCMMA so I can start competitive grappling again.

If elevating your hips and looking for various grips/guard systems/attacks is exhausting to the point that you couldn't even do 2.5-3min of it vs someone you're supposed to completely outclass on the ground (as Silva should vs anyone he's fought against outside of maia, if his ground game hype is to be believed) then I don't really know what to tell you.

The reason you expend the energy is to win. Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world. In other words, he should outclass someone like lutter/Sonnen to the point that he should be able to do whatever the hell he wants against him. This isn't some ridiculously exhausting thing, this is exercising a sport you've competed in for so long that you're among the very best in the world vs inferior competition. A typical good grappling class is 1 1/2 hours long, with half an hour devoted to live rolling...that's just for students.

I don't even know what you're talking about, tbh :/. A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/

edit: On top of that, there are a ton of attacks that are useful for someone that intends to win with his striking. Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage. Someone as good as A.Silva is supposed to be off of his back shouldn't be alright with conceding vast swaths of a round or even an entire round just because he's worried that using an advantage might make him a little less able to use a different advantage...especially given how much judging variance 3 and 5 round fights create.

adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him.

theres a reason why i think jones finishes anderson in the first round, its because he would pass his guard and sub him immediately. its also the reason i think GSP isnt drawing dead vs anderson. in any given round i think theres a probably about a 75% chance GSP takes anderson down before he gets KOed. so obviously it isnt likely he wins a decision, (.75^5)=23%, but i do think gsp would be able to pass his guard and has maybe a 5-10% chance in any given round to submit him. its not a lot but it does give him a much better chance than just grinding out a decision.

i'd take a loan to allin on top of my own money to allin on Anderson vs GSP. GSP will eat a knee when he tries that greg jackson shit since that's the only thing Silva will be looking out for. AS is too long and tall for him

On November 19 2012 11:58 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 09:07 Minion wrote:   On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back. I completely disagree with this. Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much. I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage. Condit is not even a black belt on bjj. anderson gets the occasional sub off his back, but the usual story is that he gets taken down and he holds onto his opponent with a body triangle and prays the fight gets stood up. -henderson took him down and he stayed there the whole round just clutching on doing nothing -lutter took him down, passed and mounted him then gassed out horribly and died. granted anderson did have a nice sweep but the sub was vs a lutter who couldnt even breathe at that point -leites took him down and he needed the ref to stand it back up to get to his feet -sonnen took him down a few times and he never got back up once. and in the 2nd fight sonnen mounted him and anderson just laid there holding onto him waiting for the round to end. imagine if MMA didnt have round restarts and it just tried to simulate a fight. anderson NEVER would have gotten out of that mount and sonnen would have been on top of him in mount looking for a sub and landing some strikes forever. anderson is tricky and very very smart. if he notices someone is making a mistake he will grab a submission. but really his bottom game is very weak compared to condit and diaz because its mostly passive and hes very bad at getting back to his feet from the position. but he does have MUCH MUCH better takedown defense than both of those guys one thing i didnt mention that helps your case is the illegal upkick on okami. that was beautiful, just an amazing strike from that position. granted i dont think that helps him if someone passes to his half guard or anything, but it is a weapon that he should be allowed to use. it being illegal is just stupid. but basically i do think anderson probably has better submissions off his back than condit, i think its just nearly impossible to submit an elite opponent off your back so its kind of a moot point. if the guy on top doesnt make mistakes you should not be able to submit him when hes able to punch you and you arent wearing a gi. it sucks but thats reality in mma today, so i just dont think andersons skills off his back are all that relevant

Speaking of strikes from the bottom it should be pointed out that the triangle vs Lutter was set up via a big up kick, and the triangle vs sonnen was set up from a very nice punch from the bottom.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was.

There is an absolutely ridiculous difference between the endurance required for BJJ and the endurance required for MMA.

I could grapple for at least an hour but I'd never last 5 minutes against a competent opponent simply because of my training regiment.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world.

Excuse me what is this nonsense? By whom? Never have I heard of anyone even suggesting that he is remotely competitive in BJJ outside the octagon.
Not even when only discussing BJJuteiros who have competed in MMA do people list him.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage.

All of those things are so easily negated by a well rounded 2012 fighter that it's not even funny. I don't even know what you're saying.
This isn't BJJ. You seem to be forgetting that this isn't BJJ. You don't get to calmly and decisively attempt all those things, you're being punched in the face,
you're breathing heavily, you're taking body shots, you're worrying about being passed because you're sweaty as hell.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/

Even if I gave you the premise that he wasn't the best striker and that he was in fact top 10 in BJJ (which he is most certainly not even close to being)
it'd still be a piss poor strategy to expand energy inefficiently from an inferior position if you're sublime at negating the opponent from it.

On November 19 2012 17:16 Daut wrote: adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him.

And you're "adding to Keanu's post" because you do not realize that attempting submissions etc from guard when you're in the sweatiest scenarios possible
is an excellent method of having your guard passed? And by your logic putting you at a real risk of being finished?

Nobody in this thread, at least not me, is suggesting that Anderson seek out being on his back.

as much as I like GSP

fighting AS would be no doubt a very bad fight for him.

but what a sick fucken hero if he wins, GOAT and he will be a legend for the rest of time.

oh didn't see daut's post.

I have no idea what your talking about, Rory looked like he was on another level in his fight vs condit until that third round, MMA is not a statistical game, there's much much more to it than stats. If Rory and Condit were to rematch now, I have no doubt in my mind that Rory will completely outclass him.

And yea really confused about how you think gsp vs condit was even, that fight was not even close lol.

Condit is just a striker with insane conditioning, his camp uses his skillsets very well which is why he's had the success he's had so far (Note: Nick Diaz fight, what a fucken lol gameplan but hey it worked)

He's also got a very large frame for a welterweight which is one of the primary reasons why he's so effective from the guard.

On November 19 2012 19:29 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was. There is an absolutely ridiculous difference between the endurance required for BJJ and the endurance required for MMA. I could grapple for at least an hour but I'd never last 5 minutes against a competent opponent simply because of my training regiment.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world. Excuse me what is this nonsense? By whom? Never have I heard of anyone even suggesting that he is remotely competitive in BJJ outside the octagon. Not even when only discussing BJJuteiros who have competed in MMA do people list him.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage. All of those things are so easily negated by a well rounded 2012 fighter that it's not even funny. I don't even know what you're saying. This isn't BJJ. You seem to be forgetting that this isn't BJJ. You don't get to calmly and decisively attempt all those things, you're being punched in the face, you're breathing heavily, you're taking body shots, you're worrying about being passed because you're sweaty as hell.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/ Even if I gave you the premise that he wasn't the best striker and that he was in fact top 10 in BJJ (which he is most certainly not even close to being) it'd still be a piss poor strategy to expand energy inefficiently from an inferior position if you're sublime at negating the opponent from it.   On November 19 2012 17:16 Daut wrote: adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him. And you're "adding to Keanu's post" because you do not realize that attempting submissions etc from guard when you're in the sweatiest scenarios possible is an excellent method of having your guard passed? And by your logic putting you at a real risk of being finished? Nobody in this thread, at least not me, is suggesting that Anderson seek out being on his back.

Stop with the hyperbole, there isn't "an absolutely ridiculous difference" between the endurance required for mma compared to bjj. It's certainly more difficult but not by that large of a margin, and at the tier these guys compete at grappling is going to be an energy drain whether there's striking or not. I've taken maybe 2 BJJ classes total in the past 5 years; it's been all submission grappling, MMA, muay thai, boxing, and wrestling. If you can grapple for an hour but can't last 5 minutes in an mma match the issue isn't the different sports, the issue is your lack of experience in an mma setting. the other possibility is that your training partners suck and have no idea how to apply pressure but whatever. Regardless...there's something else going on here. Don't get me wrong, I suck at mma and gas out really easily...but I'm not going to delude myself and say it's because mma is so much more difficult, the answer is because I'm experienced enough as a grappler to be relaxed and control my breathing even in difficult situations while in mma im constantly tensing up and afraid to get hit.

As for the rest, I dunno. It sounds like you're making my argument for me really. If the guys Silva has fought can just shrug off any of his attacks from guard and pass his guard as soon as he opens it up...that just means his ground game isn't very good. I've heard one of his training partners describe him as a top 10 bjj practitioner, I don't remember who so I'm not sure how valid it is...I've also heard him described as world class bjj. I dunno, where do you want the cut off to be? he isn't top 10, he isn't world class, he seems like somewhere around an average black belt. Wherever you want to make the distinction...who would you compare him to?

Just stop with this exhaustion nonsense. Have you rolled with an aggressive good 200+lb blackbelt before? All of this hyperbole about how difficult mma is can just as easily apply to them...you're constantly fighting off their legs, fists constantly slammed into your throat, pressure at all angles, forearms dug into your jaw line until your eyes start tearing up, every attack they throw has to be met with 100% force or your gonna get an arm or leg torn right the fuck off...it's a goddamn nightmare. there are a ton of nogi grappling tournaments where people are able to get sweeps/subs despite being sweaty, and not only are there a ton of attacks from your guard but many of them are actually going to make it nearly impossible to be struck. Not only that, plenty of MMA fighters have very active/aggressive guards and they don't tire out after 5 minutes. if you can't elevate your hips or shrimp out without getting your guard passed or getting shrugged off and punched in the mouth, the issue is with you, not with grappling as a whole. And if you can't grapple for 5 minutes in an mma match without gassing out, then either you need to hit the treadmill or, in my case, realize that taking a couple of punches isn't the end of the world and start breathing properly and not tensing up.

As for guard being an inferior position, this is something of a pet peeve of mine. guard isn't inferior, it's just so many fighters are alright with just stalling out and hoping to stand up that it seems inferior. yes, judges score top position favorably and takedowns highly...it sucks. so, get a sweep; sweep the dude and fight to get mount, then fuck him up...congrats on winning the round if not the fight. Or, sub the guy, he has very few subs he can go for while his entire body is open to you...throw up some attacks, find an opening, and win the fight outright without even having to worry about judges. Or, take his back; there are a number of different ways you can end up on the guys back from your back and if you can spend even just a minute riding his back not only are you likely to win the round but if your back mount is any good you'll have a great opportunity for a sub not to mention you'll be applying a ton of pressure on him which will have positive consequences for future rounds. Or, if all else fails, everything you're trying is sure to create space...use the fact that you're both sweaty and slip in an underhook and inch up the cage, or grab a collar tie and plant his head into the ground, or turtle up and work from there...at the very least you don't have to wait for a ref to stand you up which may not happen until the next round...in a 5 round fight you really shouldn't be giving up very many rounds.

And if none of that works and he parks your head up against the cage...well, he's just better than you i suppose. sucks, but go ahead and lock him up and hope to stall him out until you get stood up.

On November 20 2012 09:31 KeanuReaver wrote: Stop with the hyperbole, there isn't "an absolutely ridiculous difference" between the endurance required for mma compared to bjj. It's certainly more difficult but not by that large of a margin

There absolutely is. Please consult someone you know who has done both.

On November 20 2012 09:31 KeanuReaver wrote: If you can grapple for an hour but can't last 5 minutes in an mma match the issue isn't the different sports, the issue is your lack of experience in an mma setting. the other possibility is that your training partners suck and have no idea how to apply pressure but whatever.

I'm at a loss of words if you think there isn't an explanation for the endurance required that has something to do with you using your arms and legs forcefully and
receiving blows to your entire body. If you don't see that I have no interest in replying to nor reading more of your reply.

There is a monstrous difference between delivering 1000-2500 PSI (Please note that every action has an equal and opposing reaction, in this case in your arm or leg)
and throwing your arm forward fast to get a grip in BJJ and I truly want you to admit that fact if you want me to have a discussion with you.