Your worst downswing experience?

These past couple of months I experienced the worst run I have had during my 7 years of playing poker. The kind of run that makes me wonder if something supernatural is going on, which in turn makes me upset because I consider myself to be an extremely rational person (like if me considering unlikely hands that beat me makes them appear in reality on screen - the 'anti-Secret' or whether this was bad karma, because of some of the things I did in recent times). Last 2 weeks have been particularly brutal to a point where for the first time in my 'career' I'm taking a break despite feeling like I'm playing very good by my standards (this year I was the most motivated to improve that I have been in a very long while). I hope indeed 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger', because if that's true I'm going to be one strong motherfucker once this ends.

I'm not looking for pity/comfort, but more so I'm interested in your experiences so that hopefully I can draw some inspiration from them and so that my brain gets proof, not promises that it can get this bad, while still playing winning poker.

had some 10-20k downswings but nothing too serious, just always keep my nose to the grindstone and grind low variance and rebuild confidence.

I always learn so much during downswings, I tend to bust out of them with solid scores the majority of the time, Obviously you're extremely talented, we all get them, no set amount of time, just focus on playing good and try to never ever think about luck.

Things will turn around for ya, take some time off and get some perspective, You're an awesome player to watch.

You guys play some high variance highstakes games, the swings can be kinda big, people never really realize how long the long run is. obviously why i don't have my bracelets yet!

i watch tons of movies, relax, shower, take my time and re-evaluate alot about my life and game during downswings, yet always remember to trust my instincts and believe in myself. Play my A game. If I have 1 single question, send hh's to skype friendz etc.

Think this is a good topic ne ways
Ryanz

5 minute showers are my 8 minute abs.

cures my tilt everytime idk why, fun getting ready at 5:52 to be out of the shower by 5:59 to not miss a hand in a towel -_-

obv the imagery you guys want.

life of an mtter.

toughest downswing was my first big one obv. when i was staked for nl25 ($500 roll) in 2010. I played like 10k hands everyday, playing pretty badly and thinking i was playing perfectly LOL. Then near busting my roll after about 100k hands. Since then i've never wanted a stake again, it just sucks to have that pressure to perform.

After that every downswing has been pretty easy to endure, except 1 i had this year where everything went badly. I had been running breakeven for like 2 months, then decided to challenge myself with some high variance heads up vs schmeff. Lost that match, cashed out some money. dropped down and played 1/2 deep. lost more after that, and more and more and lost money for 2.5 months straight. And kept losing even when i dropped down from 2/4 to .5/1. had to build my roll up from 2k. Lost about 12000bb's during that downswing. I was kind've shocked about that downswing because i just continued to keep running bad and getting crushed at .5/1 deep games, which were pretty dam soft for me at the time.
Still pretty easy to handle that one though because i knew i was playing well enough to beat the games. But yeah, deep games can have some insane variance.

When i started taking poker seriously in 2011 i had the biggest upswing ever, turning $200 into $36k in 5 months. I had improved during that time, but was probably one of the worst regs at 2/4, 3/6. That upswing was enough to keep me interested and keep me improving though, without that massive upswing at the right time i wouldn't have taken poker seriously for long.

Nowdays we can accurately measure how much of a downswing you can have based on hand sample, winrate and standard deviation. If you have a less than 2bb/100 winrate you can go 1million hands without making money.

lol neilly =D

On November 17 2012 20:48 tomson wrote: These past couple of months I experienced the worst run I have had during my 7 years of playing poker. The kind of run that makes me wonder if something supernatural is going on, which in turn makes me upset because I consider myself to be an extremely rational person (like if me considering unlikely hands that beat me makes them appear in reality on screen - the 'anti-Secret' or whether this was bad karma, because of some of the things I did in recent times). Last 2 weeks have been particularly brutal to a point where for the first time in my 'career' I'm taking a break despite feeling like I'm playing very good by my standards (this year I was the most motivated to improve that I have been in a very long while). I hope indeed 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger', because if that's true I'm going to be one strong motherfucker once this ends. I'm not looking for pity/comfort, but more so I'm interested in your experiences so that hopefully I can draw some inspiration from them and so that my brain gets proof, not promises that it can get this bad, while still playing winning poker.

hm i think my worst run was like 40-something buyins at 1/2 6m over the course of a couple weeks but unlike you i'm not extremely rational and i prob tilted like a motherfucker.

how much worse is it than your first worst run ever? http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/271174/all/Downswings..html

Real downswing is when your cashier displays 0 with couple buyins left in your bank account. You think about killing yourself but decide to wait on that since you have points left to go biGGGGGG!

LOL

What is this 'downswing' thing you speak of?

you only realize your losses when you quit, just keep depositing

haha tomson you want inspiration

i don't have any your downswing can go on and on and you're like wtf and start believing in higher powers because only a cruel god could explain the universe fucking you this way

hard to get out of downswing when playing 10k hands a month

when i busted my roll and quit playing poker

Not played so much poker these last years. So this isn't all that fresh.

But one of the most gruesomme was when I was staked and I dropped somewhere in between 5-7k on the stake. Just made me deeply depressed and unfocused most of the time. Hated it.

And 2 years ago on holliday, got staked 5-10 live game, and one session I dropped 5000e. Just felt so empty and sad, couldn't bring myself to go to the appartment we had rented to face the other guys, just sat down at the lake for an hour feeling sorry for myself lol.

And in recent times I tried a stab at PLO, LOL, so this isn't really a downswing I guess lol. But down 55BI of micro stakes, 25nl and 10nl lol.

Other than that, maybe not a downswing. But I played a lot of poker around 3,5 years ago. Like 10 hours a day for 4 months straight and built a roll from 20nl of around 350e up to 6000e. And I was one of the guys who lost my roll in the Potraiser scandal. They changed to cakenetwork, ppl started cashing out like crazy. They couldn't pay, got kicked out from the network, and I never got the money. They just closed down and vanished. Not really a downswing, but made me quit poker and start gaming slobbing off.

Ok, that's bout it xD

I was looking through my old blog posts the other day and it reminded me of one of the more soul crushing downswings which was pretty much losing at more than a dollar/hand over 16k hands or so at hu, here were the associated blog posts if you were interested (on the ds and the recovery): 1 2

My biggest 6max downswing was probably something like 37-38 buy ins and I think I had two 30-buy in downswings in my life. It's sick but people can literally run really bad or good for stretches of like 500k hands even, and it's surprising to people but in reality its just that people underestimate variance all the time

I guess I lost like 50k or something playing 2/4-5/10 PLO two years ago or something. But I played fairly bad. The last 300k hands I'm like 100bi under ev but since I'm up money I can't really consider it a downswing.

I dropped 100k in stakes/backing/expenses and 150+ buyins between 2/4 and 5/10 in sept/october, gna make a blog about it once im robusto lol

-35 buyins

I generally deal very bad with even small swings, its my biggest leak

On November 18 2012 04:07 Mariuslol wrote: Other than that, maybe not a downswing. But I played a lot of poker around 3,5 years ago. Like 10 hours a day for 4 months straight and built a roll from 20nl of around 350e up to 6000e. And I was one of the guys who lost my roll in the Potraiser scandal. They changed to cakenetwork, ppl started cashing out like crazy. They couldn't pay, got kicked out from the network, and I never got the money. They just closed down and vanished. Not really a downswing, but made me quit poker and start gaming slobbing off.

That really sucks, if you somehow could continue to play with those 6000 euro 10 hours per day im sure you would have made well over 100.000 k euro with that at least today... Why not try the same receipe again ? What worked once can work again...

So check it guys, tomson pmed me to respond to this thread.

I dont want this to turn into massive long thread and hijack it from OP but here is a too long didn't read version of my poker story.

Started in June 2007 in my final semester of uni, friend (filthy999 on here) gave me 50$ and told me i'd make a good poker player and 6months later i had 110k never once going bust or ever endangering my roll and always having 20+ buyins (most of the time 50+).

Long story short i made 1.7mil with rakeback included in 5 years. The worst downswing ever was maybe 200k hands of breakeven and a total of perhaps 60 buyins... My winrate overall over 8million hands is 2bb/100. Its definately not fantastic or anything compared to someone like galfond, but in my defence i've always played 24 tables.. At the table i've always felt i was either the best or the 2nd best at most of the games i've sat in, even in todays climate.

I know i come across on this board as arrogant, asshole what ever you call it, and thats because i am smart. I was a high honor roll student in Syduni, got all kinds of prizes and scholarships and took on poker like it was natural to me, but this year was very very different for me. Even though I felt like i was still one of the best players on stars, i've broken even this whole year (no joke). I am down 120k this year (up 120 in rakeback) and unless something in the environment changes i dont plan on coming back. I am not discouraged about my own abilities but i am actually convinced the game is dead, after blackfriday happend alot of pros moved out of country just to keep gambling yet all the fish stopped playing. Even though I think i am better than most regs i play with but my edge on them is so small that it may not be enough to cover rake.

Im actually interested to see anyone post a good winning graph this year over 1.5mil+ hands.. I really cant think of any name on stars that is going to have a good looking graph

Anyways thats my 2cents to this, maybe im wrong and am just another washed up old school reg

P.S im quitting after i hit SNE this year and hoping the poker economy (legislation changes) other wise im going to join my friend who is starting a private investment fund.

in regards to tomson,

maybe the game is changing and maybe its not and you arent good enough but either way sometimes we just have to fold in real life

In MTT's I'm still on my worst downswing I guess. Down 160k since my FT @ WSOP 2010. Broke even at live cash for like 1.5 yrs @ 2010-2011. Luckily I was/am backed for MTT's since I started losing in them. Convenient I suppose, still annoying. Beating live poker now though. So total non-money making time period of around 2 years. Rebuilding going well for now but you never know when the downswing fairy will get you.

Similar to what Andrew said, you don't really know how good you can be at finding a way to win or make money until you have one month of living expenses in the bank and 4 buy-ins at your normal stake.

wobbly quitting what? oO

Taking a look at the Pokerstars lobby its hard to not agree with wobbly...

20 people open 4 tables each every limit
And every game running has 10-30 people on waiting list

The bumhunters are trying really anything they can to ruin the games for everyone.... And Pokerstars allows it : (

On November 18 2012 11:54 LemOn[5thF] wrote: wobbly quitting what? oO

no point in keeping on after a whole year of break even.

On November 18 2012 11:59 VanDerMeyde wrote: Taking a look at the Pokerstars lobby its hard to not agree with wobbly... 20 people open 4 tables each every limit And every game running has 10-30 people on waiting list The bumhunters are trying really anything they can to ruin the games for everyone.... And Pokerstars allows it : (

this~ and also people who play me are pretty much similar skill level to me all the regs who dont play me are just bumhunters who get in like 100k hands a year, and even if a big winrate that is not going to be profitable or stable enough an income for me.

what wobbly says is more or less what i wouldve expected to happen to me by now had i stuck to nlhe. in his defence i don't think it's him that's washed up but the way in which he tries to play poker. ofcourse hardly anyone can show a decent 1.5m+ hand graph of just this year because masstabling nlhe online is yesteryear's gravy train and the cheese has long gone. adapt or die (props to wobbly for adapting)

On November 18 2012 11:59 VanDerMeyde wrote: Taking a look at the Pokerstars lobby its hard to not agree with wobbly... 20 people open 4 tables each every limit And every game running has 10-30 people on waiting list The bumhunters are trying really anything they can to ruin the games for everyone.... And Pokerstars allows it : (

damn those pesky bumhunters for acting in a way that they think serves their own best interest! i guess your arguments against it are of the 'Tragedy of the Commons' sort, but in some part you have to also admit that you just want perceived lesser skilled regs to give you (perceived superior regs) action.

So what's the play, are you going to whinge about the status quo, or are you going to accept that which you can't control, and instead adapt to the situation? If so, do you know how?

On November 18 2012 12:56 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 11:59 VanDerMeyde wrote: Taking a look at the Pokerstars lobby its hard to not agree with wobbly... 20 people open 4 tables each every limit And every game running has 10-30 people on waiting list The bumhunters are trying really anything they can to ruin the games for everyone.... And Pokerstars allows it : ( damn those pesky bumhunters for acting in a way that they think serves their own best interest! i guess your arguments against it are of the 'Tragedy of the Commons' sort, but in some part you have to also admit that you just want perceived lesser skilled regs to give you (perceived superior regs) action. So what's the play, are you going to whinge about the status quo, or are you going to accept that which you can't control, and instead adapt to the situation? If so, do you know how?

Well what I used to do back on Everest when the lobby started to look like the stars lobby was to sit down at every table and take note of which players sat out and then constantly bother those regs until they left the network (which they usually did after 1-2-3 months). And if they didnt leave the network our table would usually fill up first and i would be sit in when the fish
sits in for a small 1-50 hands advantage there (depending on when the other guy/other regs started to notice)

I think I kept the everest games much better by doing that, and im suprised that more people are not doing it

I did get ton of threats and complains thou O_O

My other adjustment was to terrorize the Everest support every single day until they moved the Headsup tables to another lobby - which right away made the games much much better

On November 18 2012 12:49 Ket wrote: what wobbly says is more or less what i wouldve expected to happen to me by now had i stuck to nlhe. in his defence i don't think it's him that's washed up but the way in which he tries to play poker. ofcourse hardly anyone can show a decent 1.5m+ hand graph of just this year because masstabling nlhe online is yesteryear's gravy train and the cheese has long gone. adapt or die (props to wobbly for adapting)

wisdom.

But i want to add to this post by saying that Not only is mass tabling yesturyears gravy train, its online poker in general. What i mean is i dont think its possible with any type of professional poker style (2 tables, 4 tables 8 tables 24 tables) to have a true yearly winrate of 300k+ where as it was far easier last year (pre blackfriday).

The game is dead. People with legit hookups in live games please let me in and i'll treat u nicenice only looking for big games tho, like 100/200+

who needs 300k a year tho. im happy to grind out 50$/h with no college education. (which would cost me 50/h to make half as much)

worst downswing i've seen so far

lol @ NL Holdem cashgames

On November 18 2012 18:18 player999 wrote: lol @ NL Holdem cashgames

This theres a reason I play mtt's and sng's

On November 18 2012 18:18 player999 wrote: lol @ NL Holdem cashgames

a lot of money to be made 8 tabling zoom yo

On November 18 2012 21:37 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 18:18 player999 wrote: lol @ NL Holdem cashgames a lot of money to be made 8 tabling zoom yo

Zoom is awesome ))

hypers are awesome, rip cash games

stars is zoom and mttz..

Had a small losing year last year losing about 9 outta 12 months and had a stretch where i lost around 250k this year i made more than i have in the 4 other years of poker there is still hope

On November 18 2012 13:08 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 12:49 Ket wrote: what wobbly says is more or less what i wouldve expected to happen to me by now had i stuck to nlhe. in his defence i don't think it's him that's washed up but the way in which he tries to play poker. ofcourse hardly anyone can show a decent 1.5m+ hand graph of just this year because masstabling nlhe online is yesteryear's gravy train and the cheese has long gone. adapt or die (props to wobbly for adapting) wisdom. But i want to add to this post by saying that Not only is mass tabling yesturyears gravy train, its online poker in general. What i mean is i dont think its possible with any type of professional poker style (2 tables, 4 tables 8 tables 24 tables) to have a true yearly winrate of 300k+ where as it was far easier last year (pre blackfriday). The game is dead. People with legit hookups in live games please let me in and i'll treat u nicenice only looking for big games tho, like 100/200+

i wouldn't agree with that. tried every 'professional poker style' for online poker have you? (hint: there's more out there than nlhe cashgames)

On November 19 2012 12:16 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 13:08 wobbly_au wrote:   On November 18 2012 12:49 Ket wrote: what wobbly says is more or less what i wouldve expected to happen to me by now had i stuck to nlhe. in his defence i don't think it's him that's washed up but the way in which he tries to play poker. ofcourse hardly anyone can show a decent 1.5m+ hand graph of just this year because masstabling nlhe online is yesteryear's gravy train and the cheese has long gone. adapt or die (props to wobbly for adapting) wisdom. But i want to add to this post by saying that Not only is mass tabling yesturyears gravy train, its online poker in general. What i mean is i dont think its possible with any type of professional poker style (2 tables, 4 tables 8 tables 24 tables) to have a true yearly winrate of 300k+ where as it was far easier last year (pre blackfriday). The game is dead. People with legit hookups in live games please let me in and i'll treat u nicenice only looking for big games tho, like 100/200+ i wouldn't agree with that. tried every 'professional poker style' for online poker have you? (hint: there's more out there than nlhe cashgames)

riddle me this,

how many people back in say 2010 can say they have a true winrate of 300k a year. How many can today?

a very small amount, but very very much nonzero
an even smaller amount, but very very much nonzero

just picking up on the fact you used the word "impossible". far from it, by my estimation

On November 19 2012 13:14 Ket wrote: a very small amount, but very very much nonzero an even smaller amount, but very very much nonzero just picking up on the fact you used the word "impossible". far from it, by my estimation

i assume we are just quibbling over terminology then, but my main point if blackfriday pulled ALOT of money out of the economy

i'd say the top tier money makers 300k+ prob reduced from 50 to like 10. MTTers and SNGS excluded.

And yes i think there are only around 10 poeple who can make 300k+ a year plo and NL included

I honestly think my worst downswing was not my most -$ situation but I went through a -45 buyin month last year. It was only over 150k hands or so, and not at limits that affected my lifestyle in any way. It hurt my ego and poker soul though. I basically stopped playing for about 5 weeks before even opening a table again. I feel you might have this issue. It is more the mental damage than the br damage that is what feels defeating. I worked my way back in gradually, re-reading alot of the books I have based my game on and also reviewing my personal notebook. I keep a notebook of key concepts and how I want to apply them, kind of an unreleased poker strategy book just for me.
I had a few long talks with other players about a few spots that I was not sure I was dealing with correctly, and although I do not think this helped me directly it did wonders for my desire to get back to the game.
Sidenote;
Games are def getting tougher, but it is the same in any line of work. The winners stay on top by constantly evolving and adapting. The lazy die.
Hope I did my part to motivate you!

to wobbly:

what do you say to all these people claiming to have hourly win rates of $100 or more? (mainly the mid and low stakes grinders, like $100nl to 600nl, etc)

I am in no position to refute or accept their claims (and i have noticed they have died down somewhat) but people always talk about their hourly (mostly 1/2 grinders) and it just seems like they make way less than they claim to make

at the same time, i imagine someone who was decent, not good, but decent, at poker could play a ton of tables and just grind it out playing super nitty for something like 8-10 hours a day (maybe even 12) and earn a few buy ins + rakeback to make 300k a year playing 1/2.

it is disheartening to read that the game is deteriorating, in terms of profitability and viability for players, but it also seems that the game didnt really die, its just that mid stakes died.

Strictly from a statistical perspective, I had a 400k breakeven stretch where my EV was something like +140-150 buyins. Never have been much of a grinder but it really crushed my desire to play the game at all any more.

of course, family problems crushed what was left so it didn't matter much any way.

On November 19 2012 14:55 chris wrote: to wobbly: what do you say to all these people claiming to have hourly win rates of $100 or more? (mainly the mid and low stakes grinders, like $100nl to 600nl, etc) I am in no position to refute or accept their claims (and i have noticed they have died down somewhat) but people always talk about their hourly (mostly 1/2 grinders) and it just seems like they make way less than they claim to make at the same time, i imagine someone who was decent, not good, but decent, at poker could play a ton of tables and just grind it out playing super nitty for something like 8-10 hours a day (maybe even 12) and earn a few buy ins + rakeback to make 300k a year playing 1/2. it is disheartening to read that the game is deteriorating, in terms of profitability and viability for players, but it also seems that the game didnt really die, its just that mid stakes died.

no reg on 1-2 makes 300k a year im sorry to say..
my hourly lifetime is 400$/h and this year 0$/h
Postblackfriday is very very different.

edit i'll add another post later.. but thats the gist.. im in a session and cbf typing more

I would love to get back on the online grind and just grind out 100k a year on midstakes NLhe/PLO. anything to hold me over yo

how can the game be dead given all the ridiculous hands i see longple post day in and day out

On November 19 2012 17:35 n0rthf4ce wrote: how can the game be dead given all the ridiculous hands i see longple post day in and day out

do u see longple making the $$$ vs these guys that supposedly play bad?

it didnt/doesnt seem like any reg will / can make 300k a year at 1/2, but these guys at 1/2 saying they make like $100 an hour.....well, if you make $100 an hour and play 10 hours a day, for 300 days a year, thats $300k.

something not adding up, and my guess is the regs overstate their winrates, etc.

i have a 4 year degree and handle all the accounting for a government funded non profit, and i get paid ~ $20 per hour.

dont know what stakes we're talkin about here but at 2/4 plo and higher i know way more than 10 persons with a 300k+ a year winrate esp incl. RB
What you say probably applies only to NLHE

On November 19 2012 18:01 chris wrote: it didnt/doesnt seem like any reg will / can make 300k a year at 1/2, but these guys at 1/2 saying they make like $100 an hour.....well, if you make $100 an hour and play 10 hours a day, for 300 days a year, thats $300k. something not adding up, and my guess is the regs overstate their winrates, etc. i have a 4 year degree and handle all the accounting for a government funded non profit, and i get paid ~ $20 per hour.

thats because ur job is likely to be far less demanding mentally. And less stressful. Poker isnt an easy game, definately hardest job i've had so far.

the reason noone makes 300k a year playin 1/2 is cuz ppl move up when they destroy their current stakes and so should they : )

On November 19 2012 18:01 chris wrote: it didnt/doesnt seem like any reg will / can make 300k a year at 1/2, but these guys at 1/2 saying they make like $100 an hour.....well, if you make $100 an hour and play 10 hours a day, for 300 days a year, thats $300k. something not adding up, and my guess is the regs overstate their winrates, etc. i have a 4 year degree and handle all the accounting for a government funded non profit, and i get paid ~ $20 per hour.

there's probably some people who can make $100/hr at whatever stakes who could never make close to $300k/year, playing your A-game 10 hours a day everyday seems freaking impossible to me unless you got those rigged nanonoko genetics. i used to just play 2-3 hrs/day because i knew after that i was shit.

i think these posts about the games being dead or whatever are total bullshit.

i personally know like 10 people who have already made >300k this year only playing NL.

i'm up 50k already this month and am up something like 120k in just the last 3 months. that's including 2 downswings one 15 buy ins the other 20. one of those happened just yesterday.

tomson,

i have had a 300k hand breakeven stretch. i've also had single days where ive lost 30 buy ins in the past. those kind of things dont really happen to me anymore because i manipulate my strategy based on whether im winning or losing. that means when im winning i will choose to increase my variance in certain spots since i know im going to tilt less and play better even if i happen to lose a stack--this allows me t push smaller edges which obv increases winrate. when im losing, i look for situations to decrease my variance and will pass on a lot of spots where i could take a small edge in order to soften my big losses and keep me in higher stakes games more often--this is even more important when playing multiple sites without the ability to transfer funds since if i lose my roll im out of action until i can make a deposit which is a huge pain in the ass.

if u really believe every time the cards go all in that the one card your opponent needs is going to fall (ya i can relate ive definitely felt like that before), id suggest to just drop way down in stakes, like if u play 5/10 as your main game, go down to 1/2 and force yourself to win 5 or 10 buy ins to move back up to 2/4, then do the same thing there and move to 3/6 and before u know it, you;ll have your confidence back and be playing 5/10 again. if u continue to run awful, at least it'll be at 1/2 where it will only affect you 1/5th as much.

On November 19 2012 18:59 MARSHALL28 wrote: i think these posts about the games being dead or whatever are total bullshit. i personally know like 10 people who have already made >300k this year only playing NL. i'm up 50k already this month and am up something like 120k in just the last 3 months. that's including 2 downswings one 15 buy ins the other 20. one of those happened just yesterday. tomson, i have had a 300k hand breakeven stretch. i've also had single days where ive lost 30 buy ins in the past. those kind of things dont really happen to me anymore because i manipulate my strategy based on whether im winning or losing. that means when im winning i will choose to increase my variance in certain spots since i know im going to tilt less and play better even if i happen to lose a stack--this allows me t push smaller edges which obv increases winrate. when im losing, i look for situations to decrease my variance and will pass on a lot of spots where i could take a small edge in order to soften my big losses and keep me in higher stakes games more often--this is even more important when playing multiple sites without the ability to transfer funds since if i lose my roll im out of action until i can make a deposit which is a huge pain in the ass. if u really believe every time the cards go all in that the one card your opponent needs is going to fall (ya i can relate ive definitely felt like that before), id suggest to just drop way down in stakes, like if u play 5/10 as your main game, go down to 1/2 and force yourself to win 5 or 10 buy ins to move back up to 2/4, then do the same thing there and move to 3/6 and before u know it, you;ll have your confidence back and be playing 5/10 again. if u continue to run awful, at least it'll be at 1/2 where it will only affect you 1/5th as much.

that is the most ridiculous strategy lol
those 10 people who made 300k are just running hot btw, and so are you if thats your attitude to playing.

games have never been softer for myself. half the regs at 500zoom are pretty bad, i think a $200 hourly is possible playing 8 tables of zoom (4x500 and 4x200)

Agreed w Stroggoz, games are ridic soft compared to 1-2 years ago especially at midstakes when there were 20-100 bb tables full of shortiesstakes, dunno what wobbly is talking about

neither of you have enough hands so make those claims.
i dont have much zoom hands, but 510 is very very tough compared to 2 years ago

either
A. everyone else who claims games who are tougher are wrong, i.e me

or

B. locoo and stroggoz are wrong and are simply running hot

i guess its my word against yours, but im inclined to believe my self due to my 8million hand database showing me that i was clearly a huge winner and now suddenly breakeven after blackfriday.

hmm i'm down 12k in zoom lifetime, over 120k hands. i'm very confident that it's quite soft though.

edit: will get back to you after i've played 1mill hands of zoom haha.

i see your point with any non zoom games above 2/4, especially 5/10+ table selection is insanely good. And it's frustrating just to try and get on a single table with a fish.

i dont really know that much about u ...but sounds to me most likely u just fell off.

i see a lot of ppl who used to be very good who arent doing well nowadays.

ket already made the obvious point. u have to constantly adapt your strategy due to the evolving nature of the games.

On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: i guess its my word against yours, but im inclined to believe my self due to my 8million hand database showing me that i was clearly a huge winner and now suddenly breakeven after blackfriday.

this mindset is the reason why the games will always be good. losing/breakeven players have a tendency to rationalize their losses away rather than looking inward when things go poorly for them and then argue that when things r going well for someone else that "they are just running hot" ... lol

On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: neither of you have enough hands so make those claims. i dont have much zoom hands, but 510 is very very tough compared to 2 years ago either A. everyone else who claims games who are tougher are wrong, i.e me or B. locoo and stroggoz are wrong and are simply running hot

Nvm you are probably right

On November 19 2012 20:04 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: i guess its my word against yours, but im inclined to believe my self due to my 8million hand database showing me that i was clearly a huge winner and now suddenly breakeven after blackfriday. this mindset is the reason why the games will always be good. losing/breakeven players have a tendency to rationalize their losses away rather than looking inward when things go poorly for them and then argue that when things r going well for someone else that "they are just running hot" ... lol

holy shit, do you even know who i am??
im not some random who started breaking even, i've stayed at the top for 5 years and constasntly changing and improving. you make it sound like im some random who knows nothing about improving. Yes new players come out of the woodwork and overtake the older generation of players, but thats not whats happening. Very very few players are winning in today's games.

Who are you to talk about my mindset? Do you have any idea how tough i am mentally? You actually think i am a lazy person when it comes to poker?? You are talking about one of the few players who has SNE for 5 years in a row.. I have one of the largest database to back up my claims, do the people who claim to win have that?

I think i am one of the most qualified people to speak on the toughness of the games for the past 5 years as i've constantly been one of the best on stars.. What about you??? Do you even have any idea compared to me?

Stop talking so much ridiculous shit.

On November 19 2012 20:16 locoo wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: neither of you have enough hands so make those claims. i dont have much zoom hands, but 510 is very very tough compared to 2 years ago either A. everyone else who claims games who are tougher are wrong, i.e me or B. locoo and stroggoz are wrong and are simply running hot Nvm you are probably right

graphs stats sample size to support your claims that todays games is easy for you?

please dont post 200k hands and claim anything.

On November 19 2012 20:29 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 20:04 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: i guess its my word against yours, but im inclined to believe my self due to my 8million hand database showing me that i was clearly a huge winner and now suddenly breakeven after blackfriday. this mindset is the reason why the games will always be good. losing/breakeven players have a tendency to rationalize their losses away rather than looking inward when things go poorly for them and then argue that when things r going well for someone else that "they are just running hot" ... lol holy shit, do you even know who i am?? im not some random who started breaking even, i've stayed at the top for 5 years and constasntly changing and improving. you make it sound like im some random who knows nothing about improving. Yes new players come out of the woodwork and overtake the older generation of players, but thats not whats happening. Very very few players are winning in today's games. Who are you to talk about my mindset? Do you have any idea how tough i am mentally? You actually think i am a lazy person when it comes to poker?? You are talking about one of the few players who has SNE for 5 years in a row.. I have one of the largest database to back up my claims, do the people who claim to win have that? I think i am one of the most qualified people to speak on the toughness of the games for the past 5 years as i've constantly been one of the best on stars.. What about you??? Do you even have any idea compared to me? Stop talking so much ridiculous shit.

On November 19 2012 20:43 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 20:29 wobbly_au wrote:   On November 19 2012 20:04 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On November 19 2012 19:48 wobbly_au wrote: i guess its my word against yours, but im inclined to believe my self due to my 8million hand database showing me that i was clearly a huge winner and now suddenly breakeven after blackfriday. this mindset is the reason why the games will always be good. losing/breakeven players have a tendency to rationalize their losses away rather than looking inward when things go poorly for them and then argue that when things r going well for someone else that "they are just running hot" ... lol holy shit, do you even know who i am?? im not some random who started breaking even, i've stayed at the top for 5 years and constasntly changing and improving. you make it sound like im some random who knows nothing about improving. Yes new players come out of the woodwork and overtake the older generation of players, but thats not whats happening. Very very few players are winning in today's games. Who are you to talk about my mindset? Do you have any idea how tough i am mentally? You actually think i am a lazy person when it comes to poker?? You are talking about one of the few players who has SNE for 5 years in a row.. I have one of the largest database to back up my claims, do the people who claim to win have that? I think i am one of the most qualified people to speak on the toughness of the games for the past 5 years as i've constantly been one of the best on stars.. What about you??? Do you even have any idea compared to me? Stop talking so much ridiculous shit.

i've more than earned my claim.

NL is for the most part solved, and the rake hasn't gone anywhere. Makes mid stakes pretty hard to beat.


PLO is extremely high variance and many of the players just take turns running good. And the rake is worse.

wobbly ..

dunno u .. but .. wanna play?

On November 19 2012 20:52 MARSHALL28 wrote: wobbly .. dunno u .. but .. wanna play?

are u serious? lol funny how a few months of run hot can make anyone think they are good.

On November 19 2012 20:49 DaEm0niCuS wrote: NL is for the most part solved, and the rake hasn't gone anywhere. Makes mid stakes pretty hard to beat. PLO is extremely high variance and many of the players just take turns running good.

yup at the end of the day, pros still need the constant influx of fish money, the USA FISH MONEY. With out that regs will just be dumping stacks to each other, the ones who run good will think they are still winning and the ones who run bad will die out or give up (me). But the reality of it is, poker is a zero sum game and with USA out of the picture alot of the money influx is gone.

k so if im the delusional one and u r playing well obv i should lose a lot.

itd be a pretty big mistake to pass up that kinda opportunity... especially for someone so good they made sne 5 years in a row!

ok marshall vs wobbly go

EGO WAR, ftw.

The best thing that could possibly happen for poker would be to adjust to rake by stake for all games, so that it's not 10bb/100 at the lower stakes.


This however will never happen.

marshall vs wobbly plox

On November 19 2012 20:57 MARSHALL28 wrote: k so if im the delusional one and u r playing well obv i should lose a lot. itd be a pretty big mistake to pass up that kinda opportunity... especially for someone so good they made sne 5 years in a row!

claim games are easy and win alot
attack one of the best players on stars with nothing about slander saying im lazy and weak minded
when attacked with valid points go defense and bring up HU

what kind of professional reg are u?

This thread is a discussion on big downswings and i came in to make the claim that its very normal in todays games because i doubt tomson has any kind of a winrate, loco and strogoz voice their doubts.

At no point did i say I am the king of HU, i've stated i've won a shit load of money from NL cashgames in the last 5 years and have the authority to say certain aspects of that game has changed. Please dont derail this thread.

On the other hand if you think are top shit we can arrange to play HU on 10/20 locked in for atleast 5 buyins tho. But the results of that does not change the fact that i have authority to discuss and make certain claims on the deteriorating NL games of today. Where as you really dont have any authority or even evidence to suggest that either i am shit or games are easy.

On November 19 2012 21:03 wobbly_au wrote: On the other hand if you think are top shit we can arrange to play HU on 10/20 locked in for atleast 5 buyins tho. But the results of that does not change the fact that i have authority to discuss and make certain claims on the deteriorating NL games of today.

i never said anything about my skill level, i just made the basic assumption that it's better than yours if you are breakeven for the entire year. obviously this is booked.

lol

playing a statistically significant number of hands (impossible in a year of 2-6tabling anyway) isn't the only good predictor of expectation imo.

although this method is much fuzzier and more fallible to natural human tendencies for overconfidence in own abilities relative to the field, you can deduce times you must have an edge by observing the plays your opponents make and identifying weaknesses or consistent mistakes/exploitable tendencies. If that happens to be often then it's much more reasonable than u make it sound to assume you have a decent expectation in the games.

marshall still sounds like the kid from bw.

something good is coming out of this thread

Here's the thing though, even if wobbly is wrong he's never 100% wrong. Which means he's always right.

On November 19 2012 21:13 Ket wrote: playing a statistically significant number of hands (impossible in a year of 2-6tabling anyway) isn't the only good predictor of expectation imo. although this method is much fuzzier and more fallible to natural human tendencies for overconfidence in own abilities relative to the field, you can deduce times you must have an edge by observing the plays your opponents make and identifying weaknesses or consistent mistakes/exploitable tendencies. If that happens to be often then it's much more reasonable than u make it sound to assume you have a decent expectation in the games.

Good point, but i want to add that NL is a game of incomplete information, many times you make assumptions of "good folds" or "good shoves" but in reality you dont know villain's true range. Also there will be times where you find someone's "weakness" but he also found yours and is exploiting it without your knowledge. So just having a feel of "im better" is far from enough to expect to win.

On November 19 2012 21:13 Ket wrote: playing a statistically significant number of hands (impossible in a year of 2-6tabling anyway) isn't the only good predictor of expectation imo. although this method is much fuzzier and more fallible to natural human tendencies for overconfidence in own abilities relative to the field, you can deduce times you must have an edge by observing the plays your opponents make and identifying weaknesses or consistent mistakes/exploitable tendencies. If that happens to be often then it's much more reasonable than u make it sound to assume you have a decent expectation in the games.

couldnt agree more. a strong player wouldnt be posting in a thread about variance complaining that it can't be beaten so he has to quit.

On November 19 2012 21:16 DaEm0niCuS wrote: marshall still sounds like the kid from bw.

u didnt know? ...im just running my normal hustle.

whats your overall winrate this year wobbly?

On November 19 2012 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: whats your overall winrate this year wobbly?

0.5bb/100 -300k 25/50+
+200k 10/20-

but super shitty year, feel unlucky but i feel its more to do with no fish

wobbly vs marshall would be pretty epic!

wobbly i think you are misrepresenting your year quite a bit. sounds like you are winning at a decent clip still for being a 24 tabler but presumably just ran really bad at bigger stakes with fish in games.

having a lower winrate should be no surprise to anyone. most players are choosing to play less tables than they used to, have improved their base games and there are less fish. but supposing you play 1200 hands an hour at an average stake of 4/8 with your winrate you are still making 48/hr playing and probably 125/hr in rakeback for not a bad hourly at all.

i cant speak for downswings though because im a low volume high winrate player that bumhunts PLO midstakes. im personally in the largest downswing buyin wise ive had in 6 years, roughly 35 in 30k hands. long overdue.

if it wasn't for liangyu and all that action this summer, would you be up this year wobbles?

On November 19 2012 21:02 DaEm0niCuS wrote: The best thing that could possibly happen would be hu4rollz

On November 19 2012 21:26 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: whats your overall winrate this year wobbly? 0.5bb/100 -300k 25/50+ +200k 10/20- but super shitty year, feel unlucky but i feel its more to do with no fish

so by telling me earlier that mid/hi stakes is dead, means in wobblesland that basically w RB a 400k year = dead?

u cant be this tarded wobbles, are u really up 200k on midstakes and complains on the state of the games as a 24 tabler?

cant wrap my head around this, pic or didnt happen


IMG CONFUSED JACKIE CHAN. JPG /IMG

screenshots of HEM/PT Raport page with only: this year's number of hands, stakes, BB/100, EV BB/100 and stop all the yelling guys

On November 20 2012 03:09 longple wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 21:26 wobbly_au wrote:   On November 19 2012 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: whats your overall winrate this year wobbly? 0.5bb/100 -300k 25/50+ +200k 10/20- but super shitty year, feel unlucky but i feel its more to do with no fish so by telling me earlier that mid/hi stakes is dead, means in wobblesland that basically w RB a 400k year = dead? u cant be this tarded wobbles, are u really up 200k on midstakes and complains on the state of the games as a 24 tabler? cant wrap my head around this, pic or didnt happen IMG CONFUSED JACKIE CHAN. JPG /IMG

Not that simple because of the 200k from 1020- like 130 was 1020. Why would I kid? Either I am shit compared to regs of today or games are close to dead IMO.

130 buyins won at 10-20, 60 buyins down at 25-50

can't be that 25-50 is a bit too tough?

Anyone knows, how NaNoNoKo is doing this year? I would be quite surprised if his graph changed at all.

I wonder if a poker site is some day gonna say "you know what ? The problem is there is just too many bumhunters. Lets bann ALL OF THEM.... RIGHTH NOW!!!!!!!!!"

On November 17 2012 22:57 AndrewSong wrote: Real downswing is when your cashier displays 0 with couple buyins left in your bank account. You think about killing yourself but decide to wait on that since you have points left to go biGGGGGG!

best comment so far

wobbly, what was your ptbb winrate prior to 2012 ?

On November 20 2012 07:08 MiPwnYa wrote: wobbly, what was your ptbb winrate prior to 2012 ?

slightly over 3bb/100 7 million hands if i remember correctly

when i get back to aus in a few months i'll post pre 2012 and 2012 graph and u will see for your self..

I dont know about beatable or not but its ridic to say games now are better than a couple years ago, how can they possibly be better?

Wobbly, you posted some results in your blog some time ago for 6millions+ hands.

On November 20 2012 09:06 kingpowa wrote: Wobbly, you posted some results in your blog some time ago for 6millions+ hands.

tyty
i think thats till towards the end of 2011......

Do you know the rake you paid for those 6M hands ?

On November 17 2012 22:57 AndrewSong wrote: Real downswing is when your cashier displays 0 with couple buyins left in your bank account. You think about killing yourself but decide to wait on that since you have points left to go biGGGGGG!

You are the fucking man Drew

Anyway, I had like a 20,000 sng game breakeven stretch this year. I think it was something like 1.8 million hands :[ Long term can really suck :D

On November 19 2012 21:02 DaEm0niCuS wrote: The best thing that could possibly happen for poker would be to adjust to rake by stake for all games, so that it's not 10bb/100 at the lower stakes. This however will never happen.

I've been saying this for years. It won't happen until players organize and actually fight for a system that would allow more winners. Health of the games would be 1000x better if the rake were more reasonable. Imagine if the rake cap had been arbitrarily set at 50 cents when online poker started? A brave new world.

On November 20 2012 09:43 Fujikura wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 22:57 AndrewSong wrote: Real downswing is when your cashier displays 0 with couple buyins left in your bank account. You think about killing yourself but decide to wait on that since you have points left to go biGGGGGG! You are the fucking man Drew Anyway, I had like a 20,000 sng game breakeven stretch this year. I think it was something like 1.8 million hands :[ Long term can really suck :D

u played 1.8 million hands this year ? Jesus somebody must teach me to stop beeing lazy :/

is the hu thing gonna go down?
let us know so we can bet

On November 20 2012 16:51 MiPwnYa wrote: is the hu thing gonna go down? let us know so we can bet

who you taking? and what kind of odds?

I hear you wobbly. Even doing my best bumhunting.. i was struggling trying to run 2/4-5/10 post black friday.. And its gotten even worse this year on stars. Not proud of regging up 1/2 for like 80% of my hands. But theres still decent money to make there along with sne.

On November 20 2012 18:15 chris wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 16:51 MiPwnYa wrote: is the hu thing gonna go down? let us know so we can bet who you taking? and what kind of odds?

Id bet on marshall, hes obv the weaker player so how about my 800 to your 1k

Much lower stakes, but for the last couple of years i used to win at +3bb/100 (50nl-200nl about 4mil hands) and have been breakeven this year over about 1mil hands. I game select a lot fwiw, can't understand how some people won't game select and want to make a living at 100nl, where the rake is like 7bb/100.

2012 graph

On November 18 2012 10:22 wobbly_au wrote: So check it guys, tomson pmed me to respond to this thread. I dont want this to turn into massive long thread and hijack it from OP but here is a too long didn't read version of my poker story. Started in June 2007 in my final semester of uni, friend (filthy999 on here) gave me 50$ and told me i'd make a good poker player and 6months later i had 110k never once going bust or ever endangering my roll and always having 20+ buyins (most of the time 50+). Long story short i made 1.7mil with rakeback included in 5 years. The worst downswing ever was maybe 200k hands of breakeven and a total of perhaps 60 buyins... My winrate overall over 8million hands is 2bb/100. Its definately not fantastic or anything compared to someone like galfond, but in my defence i've always played 24 tables.. At the table i've always felt i was either the best or the 2nd best at most of the games i've sat in, even in todays climate. I know i come across on this board as arrogant, asshole what ever you call it, and thats because i am smart. I was a high honor roll student in Syduni, got all kinds of prizes and scholarships and took on poker like it was natural to me, but this year was very very different for me. Even though I felt like i was still one of the best players on stars, i've broken even this whole year (no joke). I am down 120k this year (up 120 in rakeback) and unless something in the environment changes i dont plan on coming back. I am not discouraged about my own abilities but i am actually convinced the game is dead, after blackfriday happend alot of pros moved out of country just to keep gambling yet all the fish stopped playing. Even though I think i am better than most regs i play with but my edge on them is so small that it may not be enough to cover rake. Im actually interested to see anyone post a good winning graph this year over 1.5mil+ hands.. I really cant think of any name on stars that is going to have a good looking graph Anyways thats my 2cents to this, maybe im wrong and am just another washed up old school reg P.S im quitting after i hit SNE this year and hoping the poker economy (legislation changes) other wise im going to join my friend who is starting a private investment fund.

You've never been anything but a complete and utter scumbag at the tables so i won't be nice.

I've played a tonne of hands with you. You are just another idiot who the games have gone past who has too much of an ego to admit it. Even if you were a sicko player with the attitude you have it would have stunted your growth. But thinking you're a superstar when you're a sub-par 5/10 regular of course means you're going to end up breaking even.

Oh and as for your 300k+ theory, here are my results for the year, and i know for sure there there are plenty of people making more than me!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

On November 21 2012 07:35 NotInThDiner wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 10:22 wobbly_au wrote: So check it guys, tomson pmed me to respond to this thread. I dont want this to turn into massive long thread and hijack it from OP but here is a too long didn't read version of my poker story. Started in June 2007 in my final semester of uni, friend (filthy999 on here) gave me 50$ and told me i'd make a good poker player and 6months later i had 110k never once going bust or ever endangering my roll and always having 20+ buyins (most of the time 50+). Long story short i made 1.7mil with rakeback included in 5 years. The worst downswing ever was maybe 200k hands of breakeven and a total of perhaps 60 buyins... My winrate overall over 8million hands is 2bb/100. Its definately not fantastic or anything compared to someone like galfond, but in my defence i've always played 24 tables.. At the table i've always felt i was either the best or the 2nd best at most of the games i've sat in, even in todays climate. I know i come across on this board as arrogant, asshole what ever you call it, and thats because i am smart. I was a high honor roll student in Syduni, got all kinds of prizes and scholarships and took on poker like it was natural to me, but this year was very very different for me. Even though I felt like i was still one of the best players on stars, i've broken even this whole year (no joke). I am down 120k this year (up 120 in rakeback) and unless something in the environment changes i dont plan on coming back. I am not discouraged about my own abilities but i am actually convinced the game is dead, after blackfriday happend alot of pros moved out of country just to keep gambling yet all the fish stopped playing. Even though I think i am better than most regs i play with but my edge on them is so small that it may not be enough to cover rake. Im actually interested to see anyone post a good winning graph this year over 1.5mil+ hands.. I really cant think of any name on stars that is going to have a good looking graph Anyways thats my 2cents to this, maybe im wrong and am just another washed up old school reg P.S im quitting after i hit SNE this year and hoping the poker economy (legislation changes) other wise im going to join my friend who is starting a private investment fund. You've never been anything but a complete and utter scumbag at the tables so i won't be nice. I've played a tonne of hands with you. You are just another idiot who the games have gone past who has too much of an ego to admit it. Even if you were a sicko player with the attitude you have it would have stunted your growth. But thinking you're a superstar when you're a sub-par 5/10 regular of course means you're going to end up breaking even. Oh and as for your 300k+ theory, here are my results for the year, and i know for sure there there are plenty of people making more than me! Uploaded with ImageShack.us

pfft dont give a shit how u think I am as a person. But i am interested in your results, could you please rehost on a different site? I am overseas (China) and the webserver you used seems to be blocked.

On November 21 2012 07:28 the cleaner wrote: Much lower stakes, but for the last couple of years i used to win at +3bb/100 (50nl-200nl about 4mil hands) and have been breakeven this year over about 1mil hands. I game select a lot fwiw, can't understand how some people won't game select and want to make a living at 100nl, where the rake is like 7bb/100. 2012 graph

Saw your blog and yea me, you and i'd say most of the regs are basically experiencing the same thing.

@Wobbly, here`s the gist of his stats:

Total: 486 644$ (EV adjusted: 566 000$)
9bb/100 @ 460k hands total

8bb/100 over 377k hands of 5/10 as the meat, some 10/20 and 25/50. Too lazy to fill in all the details from his graph, but it looks pretty sick.

[QUOTE]On November 21 2012 08:14 TianYuan wrote:
@Wobbly, here`s the gist of his stats:

Total: 486 644$ (EV adjusted: 566 000$)
9bb/100 @ 460k hands total

8bb/100 over 377k hands of 5/10 as the meat, some 10/20 and 25/50. Too lazy to fill in all the details from his graph, but it looks pretty sick.[/QUOTE

pretty sick results, guess there will always be exceptions aye?

Mystery man, how have your year's results compared to the last few years?

On November 21 2012 05:50 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 18:15 chris wrote:   On November 20 2012 16:51 MiPwnYa wrote: is the hu thing gonna go down? let us know so we can bet who you taking? and what kind of odds? Id bet on marshall, hes obv the weaker player so how about my 800 to your 1k

you're a sick hustler Q ! I feel pretty sure Marshall is a heads up and short handed specialist.
let's see what unfolds

On November 21 2012 07:35 NotInThDiner wrote: Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Yes but how much did you lose?

On November 21 2012 08:18 wobbly_au wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 08:14 TianYuan wrote: @Wobbly, here`s the gist of his stats: Total: 486 644$ (EV adjusted: 566 000$) 9bb/100 @ 460k hands total 8bb/100 over 377k hands of 5/10 as the meat, some 10/20 and 25/50. Too lazy to fill in all the details from his graph, but it looks pretty sick.[/QUOTE pretty sick results, guess there will always be exceptions aye? Mystery man, how have your year's results compared to the last few years?

2012 > 2010 > 2011.
6.6evbb/100 at 5/10+ over 1.2mil hands.

And there are plenty of people i play with every day at 5/10 who I am sure are better than me(and whenever i venture into 25/50 i often feel im 4th or 5th best at the table).

Don't intend this as a brag(hence why i won't out myself) but just find it exceedingly arrogant that someone who starts breaking even at the games he is playing deems them unbeatable.

ok, it is now 3handed. Marshall, wobbly and mystery man

i dont think he necessarily meant unbeatable, just that without the influx of new cash, the regs are just dumping money back and forth and the games are not as good as they were, so many regs who used to win are now losing, or taking lots of ups and downs that were not experienced before, etc.

i mean, i do not think anyone can argue that the poker economy was not much much better with the US player involvement (all the best players moved overseas, the hobbyists / fish etc stayed and cannot play) , and really, the segregation of the cash games by country also limits international player pool.

does wobbly have an ego, of course. i mean, love him, hate him or indifferent, i think he does make some valid points about the state of the game, but at the same time, there are still winners,

i think a good point was made about the number of tables played. the more tables, i woudl think that would hypothetically reduce or limit one's edge in the game and the player would have less awareness of exploitable tendencies of other opponents, or might not realize some of the flaws in his own game.

i have a ton of respect for wobbly and for marshall, and even though there will be tons of flaming, trash talking and ego swelling, let us enjoy their match (if it happens) and thank them for the entertainment. always differences of opinion, but lets all be gentlemen about it.

Mystery man to save the day. I wish that one day I can visit Wobbly and shit out a nice fresh turd on his geeky pro-poker-set-up-whatever. After this he'll finally be eligible to say that, MR BIG WOBBLY, is indeed the shit. Until that day has come Wobbly will only be a wet fart to me.

this thread got hi jacked out of control into a wobbly bashing thread. OP asked wobbly to come and comment, and state his opinion. i think wobbly is well qualified to give his opinion, and i have no affiliation with wobbly

Regardless of whether he's wrong about this, or whether the way he posts is liable to earn him any commendations for humility, 1.7million is a pretty damn good result from poker....

On November 21 2012 14:57 chris wrote: this thread got hi jacked out of control into a wobbly bashing thread. OP asked wobbly to come and comment, and state his opinion. i think wobbly is well qualified to give his opinion, and i have no affiliation with wobbly

wobbly hi jacks all the threads he posts in. Dude craves the bashing; it's only way he knows how to get the much needed attention he oh so clearly lacks in his life.

I honestly don't understand why ppl are hating on Wobby. He's obviously got the skills to back up his claims, he's very opinionated, and they're not always your opinions. So what? He's a quality player!

wow thats impressive

gw sir!

The reason people hate on Wobbly is because of the way he expresses himself sometimes. He clearly has a superiority complex.

No-one doubts his abilities as a poker player or his discipline. I think everyone could learn from his example when it comes to hard work (especially considering his other accomplishments alongside playing 1.8m hands a year). That said; being modest is always a good trait and that is something Wobbly - at least on the internet - hasn't learned yet.

bottom line is the kid can play poker and sittin on a mil+.

he is still one of LP's heros.

On November 21 2012 08:40 NotInThDiner wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 08:18 wobbly_au wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 08:14 TianYuan wrote: @Wobbly, here`s the gist of his stats: Total: 486 644$ (EV adjusted: 566 000$) 9bb/100 @ 460k hands total 8bb/100 over 377k hands of 5/10 as the meat, some 10/20 and 25/50. Too lazy to fill in all the details from his graph, but it looks pretty sick.[/QUOTE pretty sick results, guess there will always be exceptions aye? Mystery man, how have your year's results compared to the last few years? 2012 > 2010 > 2011. 6.6evbb/100 at 5/10+ over 1.2mil hands. And there are plenty of people i play with every day at 5/10 who I am sure are better than me(and whenever i venture into 25/50 i often feel im 4th or 5th best at the table). Don't intend this as a brag(hence why i won't out myself) but just find it exceedingly arrogant that someone who starts breaking even at the games he is playing deems them unbeatable.

Whats the ratio of 9max:6max:HU?
Do you table select much? Either way those are impressive results, I will take this into account and decide on my career in the next few weeks. If you claim to be not one of the best regs on the tables you play yet and achieve these results then there has to be a giant whale on that table, otherwise you have to be one of the top 2 to be a winner (Thats just how the rake is structured, usually only 2 people from a table win).

Either way, I don't see how i've been arrogant or w/e in this thread, i came in admitting i haven't won shit this year and that is a hard thing to do for most people.
GL to those who aren't convinced and still wish to pursue poker as a career, but for me i will probably give it one more short for a month and again refining or maybe even remodelling my strategies. If it doesn't work and legislation doesnt change then GG im outta here.

wobbly how cum you never show your losing streaks and tiltaments?

On November 22 2012 02:50 flounder44 wrote: wobbly how cum you never show your losing streaks and tiltaments?

what do u think im doing in this thread???

On November 21 2012 16:31 Endo wrote: I honestly don't understand why ppl are hating on Wobby. He's obviously got the skills to back up his claims, he's very opinionated, and they're not always your opinions. So what? He's a quality player!

I haven't read the thread, just this page so far, and the answer to this seems obvious to me. We don't respect people because of what they do, and how well they do it, unless we are very shallow. We respect them for who they are, who they have grown themselves into, through what they have done. What they do is almost completely irrelevant. So that is why.

On November 22 2012 06:34 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 16:31 Endo wrote: I honestly don't understand why ppl are hating on Wobby. He's obviously got the skills to back up his claims, he's very opinionated, and they're not always your opinions. So what? He's a quality player! I haven't read the thread, just this page so far, and the answer to this seems obvious to me. We don't respect people because of what they do, and how well they do it, unless we are very shallow. We respect them for who they are, who they have grown themselves into, through what they have done. What they do is almost completely irrelevant. So that is why.

lol you didn't even read the thread.
wobbly sounded a bit arrogant and people is throwing shit at him. that's it. at least he is sharing his thoughts and results, unlike some people that just act like the if they were perfect human beings.

Wobbly dosnt act like hes a perfect human being? :D

On November 22 2012 07:36 ilbh wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 06:34 Loco wrote:   On November 21 2012 16:31 Endo wrote: I honestly don't understand why ppl are hating on Wobby. He's obviously got the skills to back up his claims, he's very opinionated, and they're not always your opinions. So what? He's a quality player! I haven't read the thread, just this page so far, and the answer to this seems obvious to me. We don't respect people because of what they do, and how well they do it, unless we are very shallow. We respect them for who they are, who they have grown themselves into, through what they have done. What they do is almost completely irrelevant. So that is why. lol you didn't even read the thread. wobbly sounded a bit arrogant and people is throwing shit at him. that's it. at least he is sharing his thoughts and results, unlike some people that just act like the if they were perfect human beings.

Why would he need to read the thread ? he can have a opinion based on previous threads.
I agree, that in this thread, while being arrogant Wobbly at least gives some personal insights that are interesting. And he applies his ideas: he never claimed to be modest or that he was here to be friendly and just helps others.
But clearly, I am very far to consider him as a role model, and the amount someone has won is far from being a factor for this.