Your worst downswing experience? 2

Since the first thread went to shit i'm making another one. Pasting all posts on topic. I'd like to hear more about worst downswings. Hope there are some more people that want to share what they were going through.

On November 17 2012 20:48 tomson wrote: These past couple of months I experienced the worst run I have had during my 7 years of playing poker. The kind of run that makes me wonder if something supernatural is going on, which in turn makes me upset because I consider myself to be an extremely rational person (like if me considering unlikely hands that beat me makes them appear in reality on screen - the 'anti-Secret' or whether this was bad karma, because of some of the things I did in recent times). Last 2 weeks have been particularly brutal to a point where for the first time in my 'career' I'm taking a break despite feeling like I'm playing very good by my standards (this year I was the most motivated to improve that I have been in a very long while). I hope indeed 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger', because if that's true I'm going to be one strong motherfucker once this ends. I'm not looking for pity/comfort, but more so I'm interested in your experiences so that hopefully I can draw some inspiration from them and so that my brain gets proof, not promises that it can get this bad, while still playing winning poker.

On November 17 2012 21:06 NeillyJQ wrote: had some 10-20k downswings but nothing too serious, just always keep my nose to the grindstone and grind low variance and rebuild confidence. I always learn so much during downswings, I tend to bust out of them with solid scores the majority of the time, Obviously you're extremely talented, we all get them, no set amount of time, just focus on playing good and try to never ever think about luck. Things will turn around for ya, take some time off and get some perspective, You're an awesome player to watch. You guys play some high variance highstakes games, the swings can be kinda big, people never really realize how long the long run is. obviously why i don't have my bracelets yet! i watch tons of movies, relax, shower, take my time and re-evaluate alot about my life and game during downswings, yet always remember to trust my instincts and believe in myself. Play my A game. If I have 1 single question, send hh's to skype friendz etc. Think this is a good topic ne ways Ryanz

On November 17 2012 21:08 NeillyJQ wrote: 5 minute showers are my 8 minute abs. cures my tilt everytime idk why, fun getting ready at 5:52 to be out of the shower by 5:59 to not miss a hand in a towel -_- obv the imagery you guys want. life of an mtter.

On November 17 2012 21:52 Stroggoz wrote: toughest downswing was my first big one obv. when i was staked for nl25 ($500 roll) in 2010. I played like 10k hands everyday, playing pretty badly and thinking i was playing perfectly LOL. Then near busting my roll after about 100k hands. Since then i've never wanted a stake again, it just sucks to have that pressure to perform. After that every downswing has been pretty easy to endure, except 1 i had this year where everything went badly. I had been running breakeven for like 2 months, then decided to challenge myself with some high variance heads up vs schmeff. Lost that match, cashed out some money. dropped down and played 1/2 deep. lost more after that, and more and more and lost money for 2.5 months straight. And kept losing even when i dropped down from 2/4 to .5/1. had to build my roll up from 2k. Lost about 12000bb's during that downswing. I was kind've shocked about that downswing because i just continued to keep running bad and getting crushed at .5/1 deep games, which were pretty dam soft for me at the time. Still pretty easy to handle that one though because i knew i was playing well enough to beat the games. But yeah, deep games can have some insane variance. When i started taking poker seriously in 2011 i had the biggest upswing ever, turning $200 into $36k in 5 months. I had improved during that time, but was probably one of the worst regs at 2/4, 3/6. That upswing was enough to keep me interested and keep me improving though, without that massive upswing at the right time i wouldn't have taken poker seriously for long. Nowdays we can accurately measure how much of a downswing you can have based on hand sample, winrate and standard deviation. If you have a less than 2bb/100 winrate you can go 1million hands without making money.

On November 17 2012 21:52 bigredhoss wrote: hm i think my worst run was like 40-something buyins at 1/2 6m over the course of a couple weeks but unlike you i'm not extremely rational and i prob tilted like a motherfucker. how much worse is it than your first worst run ever? http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/271174/all/Downswings..html

On November 17 2012 22:57 AndrewSong wrote: Real downswing is when your cashier displays 0 with couple buyins left in your bank account. You think about killing yourself but decide to wait on that since you have points left to go biGGGGGG!

On November 18 2012 04:07 Mariuslol wrote: Not played so much poker these last years. So this isn't all that fresh. But one of the most gruesomme was when I was staked and I dropped somewhere in between 5-7k on the stake. Just made me deeply depressed and unfocused most of the time. Hated it. And 2 years ago on holliday, got staked 5-10 live game, and one session I dropped 5000e. Just felt so empty and sad, couldn't bring myself to go to the appartment we had rented to face the other guys, just sat down at the lake for an hour feeling sorry for myself lol. And in recent times I tried a stab at PLO, LOL, so this isn't really a downswing I guess lol. But down 55BI of micro stakes, 25nl and 10nl lol. Other than that, maybe not a downswing. But I played a lot of poker around 3,5 years ago. Like 10 hours a day for 4 months straight and built a roll from 20nl of around 350e up to 6000e. And I was one of the guys who lost my roll in the Potraiser scandal. They changed to cakenetwork, ppl started cashing out like crazy. They couldn't pay, got kicked out from the network, and I never got the money. They just closed down and vanished. Not really a downswing, but made me quit poker and start gaming slobbing off. Ok, that's bout it xD

On November 18 2012 04:10 PanoRaMa wrote: I was looking through my old blog posts the other day and it reminded me of one of the more soul crushing downswings which was pretty much losing at more than a dollar/hand over 16k hands or so at hu, here were the associated blog posts if you were interested (on the ds and the recovery): 1 2 My biggest 6max downswing was probably something like 37-38 buy ins and I think I had two 30-buy in downswings in my life. It's sick but people can literally run really bad or good for stretches of like 500k hands even, and it's surprising to people but in reality its just that people underestimate variance all the time

On November 18 2012 05:21 DustySwedeDude wrote: I guess I lost like 50k or something playing 2/4-5/10 PLO two years ago or something. But I played fairly bad. The last 300k hands I'm like 100bi under ev but since I'm up money I can't really consider it a downswing.

On November 18 2012 06:11 MiPwnYa wrote: I dropped 100k in stakes/backing/expenses and 150+ buyins between 2/4 and 5/10 in sept/october, gna make a blog about it once im robusto lol

On November 18 2012 07:59 VanDerMeyde wrote: -35 buyins I generally deal very bad with even small swings, its my biggest leak

On November 18 2012 10:22 wobbly_au wrote: So check it guys, tomson pmed me to respond to this thread. I dont want this to turn into massive long thread and hijack it from OP but here is a too long didn't read version of my poker story. Started in June 2007 in my final semester of uni, friend (filthy999 on here) gave me 50$ and told me i'd make a good poker player and 6months later i had 110k never once going bust or ever endangering my roll and always having 20+ buyins (most of the time 50+). Long story short i made 1.7mil with rakeback included in 5 years. The worst downswing ever was maybe 200k hands of breakeven and a total of perhaps 60 buyins... My winrate overall over 8million hands is 2bb/100. Its definately not fantastic or anything compared to someone like galfond, but in my defence i've always played 24 tables.. At the table i've always felt i was either the best or the 2nd best at most of the games i've sat in, even in todays climate. I know i come across on this board as arrogant, asshole what ever you call it, and thats because i am smart. I was a high honor roll student in Syduni, got all kinds of prizes and scholarships and took on poker like it was natural to me, but this year was very very different for me. Even though I felt like i was still one of the best players on stars, i've broken even this whole year (no joke). I am down 120k this year (up 120 in rakeback) and unless something in the environment changes i dont plan on coming back. I am not discouraged about my own abilities but i am actually convinced the game is dead, after blackfriday happend alot of pros moved out of country just to keep gambling yet all the fish stopped playing. Even though I think i am better than most regs i play with but my edge on them is so small that it may not be enough to cover rake. Im actually interested to see anyone post a good winning graph this year over 1.5mil+ hands.. I really cant think of any name on stars that is going to have a good looking graph Anyways thats my 2cents to this, maybe im wrong and am just another washed up old school reg P.S im quitting after i hit SNE this year and hoping the poker economy (legislation changes) other wise im going to join my friend who is starting a private investment fund.

On November 18 2012 11:20 thewh00sel wrote: In MTT's I'm still on my worst downswing I guess. Down 160k since my FT @ WSOP 2010. Broke even at live cash for like 1.5 yrs @ 2010-2011. Luckily I was/am backed for MTT's since I started losing in them. Convenient I suppose, still annoying. Beating live poker now though. So total non-money making time period of around 2 years. Rebuilding going well for now but you never know when the downswing fairy will get you. Similar to what Andrew said, you don't really know how good you can be at finding a way to win or make money until you have one month of living expenses in the bank and 4 buy-ins at your normal stake.

On November 19 2012 13:48 Enigma wrote: I honestly think my worst downswing was not my most -$ situation but I went through a -45 buyin month last year. It was only over 150k hands or so, and not at limits that affected my lifestyle in any way. It hurt my ego and poker soul though. I basically stopped playing for about 5 weeks before even opening a table again. I feel you might have this issue. It is more the mental damage than the br damage that is what feels defeating. I worked my way back in gradually, re-reading alot of the books I have based my game on and also reviewing my personal notebook. I keep a notebook of key concepts and how I want to apply them, kind of an unreleased poker strategy book just for me. I had a few long talks with other players about a few spots that I was not sure I was dealing with correctly, and although I do not think this helped me directly it did wonders for my desire to get back to the game. Sidenote; Games are def getting tougher, but it is the same in any line of work. The winners stay on top by constantly evolving and adapting. The lazy die. Hope I did my part to motivate you!

On November 19 2012 15:15 KeanuReaver wrote: Strictly from a statistical perspective, I had a 400k breakeven stretch where my EV was something like +140-150 buyins. Never have been much of a grinder but it really crushed my desire to play the game at all any more. of course, family problems crushed what was left so it didn't matter much any way.

On November 19 2012 18:59 MARSHALL28 wrote: tomson, i have had a 300k hand breakeven stretch. i've also had single days where ive lost 30 buy ins in the past. those kind of things dont really happen to me anymore because i manipulate my strategy based on whether im winning or losing. that means when im winning i will choose to increase my variance in certain spots since i know im going to tilt less and play better even if i happen to lose a stack--this allows me t push smaller edges which obv increases winrate. when im losing, i look for situations to decrease my variance and will pass on a lot of spots where i could take a small edge in order to soften my big losses and keep me in higher stakes games more often--this is even more important when playing multiple sites without the ability to transfer funds since if i lose my roll im out of action until i can make a deposit which is a huge pain in the ass. if u really believe every time the cards go all in that the one card your opponent needs is going to fall (ya i can relate ive definitely felt like that before), id suggest to just drop way down in stakes, like if u play 5/10 as your main game, go down to 1/2 and force yourself to win 5 or 10 buy ins to move back up to 2/4, then do the same thing there and move to 3/6 and before u know it, you;ll have your confidence back and be playing 5/10 again. if u continue to run awful, at least it'll be at 1/2 where it will only affect you 1/5th as much.

On November 19 2012 20:00 Stroggoz wrote: hmm i'm down 12k in zoom lifetime, over 120k hands. i'm very confident that it's quite soft though.

On November 19 2012 23:40 Daut wrote: i cant speak for downswings though because im a low volume high winrate player that bumhunts PLO midstakes. im personally in the largest downswing buyin wise ive had in 6 years, roughly 35 in 30k hands. long overdue.

On November 21 2012 07:28 the cleaner wrote: Much lower stakes, but for the last couple of years i used to win at +3bb/100 (50nl-200nl about 4mil hands) and have been breakeven this year over about 1mil hands. I game select a lot fwiw, can't understand how some people won't game select and want to make a living at 100nl, where the rake is like 7bb/100. 2012 graph

50 bi below EV last month.
I still made some money with rakeback tho ...
PLO is super soft but the downswings are brutal.

edit 50 and not 70 , still brutal ^^

wobbly vs marshall hu; one time

ALL WE WANT IS A GOOD OL GRUDGE MATCH

hahaha

On December 01 2012 07:21 MadeInPolanD wrote: Since the first thread went to shit i'm making another one. Pasting all posts on topic. I'd like to hear more about worst downswings. Hope there are some more people that want to share what they were going through.

well what more is there to say really, everyone will experience downswings now and then and some more brutal then others depending on how much of an edge they have in the games theyre playing

On December 01 2012 13:48 MiPwnYa wrote: ALL WE WANT IS A GOOD OL GRUDGE MATCH

can't have a worst downswing when the worst is always yet to come

+1 on the HU grudgematch

downswings suck. me no likey downswings.

now HU plz

wth? was this necessary at all? did the old one get closed?

these threads have been liquidpokers worst downswing

i only know one remedy for that.

wobbly, marshall, hu + shittalking.

Only thing that works 100%; put LP back on track

throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something

What a fishy name of the thread.. If it wasnt Tomson who made it nobody would post anything in srs way. So fuck it, lets go back to hu :D

downswings happened in the past, you are never "in a downswing"
But I did lose some 100BI after I started

On December 02 2012 07:32 Target-x17 wrote: throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something

i have no interest in a green star.

nazgul only doles them out to his "buds" and he's hated me i'm pretty sure since even before we played poker.

He hated you before you were born imo.

LOL like if Target was being serious; Marshall clearly jelly

On December 03 2012 13:52 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2012 07:32 Target-x17 wrote: throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something i have no interest in a green star. nazgul only doles them out to his "buds" and he's hated me i'm pretty sure since even before we played poker.

sorry but I dont see you posting advice in lowstakes hands and micros like all greenstars do from time to time not just about skill pal -,-

On December 03 2012 18:05 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2012 13:52 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On December 02 2012 07:32 Target-x17 wrote: throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something i have no interest in a green star. nazgul only doles them out to his "buds" and he's hated me i'm pretty sure since even before we played poker. sorry but I dont see you posting advice in lowstakes hands and micros like all greenstars do from time to time not just about skill pal -,-

ya im not interested in low stakes hands.

you know the nazis used to give stars to the jews.

On December 04 2012 00:45 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2012 18:05 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On December 03 2012 13:52 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On December 02 2012 07:32 Target-x17 wrote: throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something i have no interest in a green star. nazgul only doles them out to his "buds" and he's hated me i'm pretty sure since even before we played poker. sorry but I dont see you posting advice in lowstakes hands and micros like all greenstars do from time to time not just about skill pal -,- ya im not interested in low stakes hands. you know the nazis used to give stars to the jews.

quoting in case you wake up from you retardness and decide to edit.

was a joke idiot.

On December 04 2012 00:45 MARSHALL28 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2012 18:05 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On December 03 2012 13:52 MARSHALL28 wrote:   On December 02 2012 07:32 Target-x17 wrote: throw in green star side pot to get this shit going or something i have no interest in a green star. nazgul only doles them out to his "buds" and he's hated me i'm pretty sure since even before we played poker. sorry but I dont see you posting advice in lowstakes hands and micros like all greenstars do from time to time not just about skill pal -,- ya im not interested in low stakes hands. you know the nazis used to give stars to the jews.

hahaha

this reminded me of office space

Just random posting b/c I am at that point of drunk where I can't really do anything too productive, have to be up really early so couldn't continue drinking, basically in drunk purgatory (recommendations for fun activities welcome. Currently downloading indy music and Mad Men Season 5 to make a decision later).

I just felt like saying this:

Marshall:

I actually find that joke pretty good in certain contexts but w/ your image on here I and most others probably took it much more literally, douchebaggy especially w/ your continuous shots at naz ("nazi".

I don't really know where I'm going with this. I guess bottom line I am not sure if anyone on here understands when you are having fun and ruffling some feathers or just being an "asshole douchebag." You seem like the type of guy that would appreciate a comment like this so felt like making it? I appreciate a lot of your honest posts on here, a lot of your good natured shit talking but a lot of the time feel like some of your posts turn basically everyone off and that isn't your intention.

i thought the nazi comment was kind of funny lol...but i don't think it's difficult to tell the difference between him having fun (nazi comment) and being a douchebag (basically every other post he's ever made).

I thought it was pretty funny and was pretty clear to me he was joking

hey op, how do u feel about the progression of this thread so far
lol:D

that's a ten marshall

Tbh can't believe mods haven't banned Marshall over that comment or 'joke' yet.

Apparently there is absolutely no standard anymore. People get banned over stupid shit sometimes but this is ok?

Oh and I don't think I've ever found a joke about the holocaust funny. Anyone that does deserves a lot less respect from me at least and I hope from the majority of people.

On December 05 2012 21:07 Ket wrote: hey op, how do u feel about the progression of this thread so far lol:D

obv very pleased

was actually counting on some drunken ramblings, hu matches requests and jokes that arent funny

yawn

a lot of u guys r crybabies. especially twisted. its words on a computer screen. get over it.

why would i be banned for just speaking my mind or making a random joke? nazgul takes shots at me too but nobody brings it up when he does. it's his site so he can obviously do whatever he wants. 1 thing i give him credit for tho is he has always been able to be very objective. a quality many of you do not possess.

Europeans on the battle.net always joked about holocaust in the chat rooms back in the day and I always thought to myself "holy shit thats racist"

then 17 minutes later before i type gg as my base is dying i catch myself dropping a bm "fkn j*w" and leaving before he can reply

On December 06 2012 09:07 RaiNKhAN wrote: Europeans on the battle.net always joked about holocaust in the chat rooms back in the day and I always thought to myself "holy shit thats racist" then 17 minutes later before i type gg as my base is dying i catch myself dropping a bm "fkn j*w" and leaving before he can reply

Yeah, that's it :D When I was asked where I was from in battle.net and I replied Germany, I was always called Nazi instantly

bet you did nazi that coming

didn't see the connection between naz and nazi... doesn't really make it funny nor clever though.

+1 thought joke was funny.

maybe some of you havent seen office space. if i hadnt seen it i would find it offensive as well.


and marshall has done nothing even close to worthy of a ban imo. being cocky isnt a crime and he actually does contribute.

the show or the movie?

edit: movie. yea ok i get it now -___________-;;

On December 06 2012 08:31 MARSHALL28 wrote: yawn a lot of u guys r crybabies. especially twisted. its words on a computer screen. get over it. why would i be banned for just speaking my mind or making a random joke? nazgul takes shots at me too but nobody brings it up when he does. it's his site so he can obviously do whatever he wants. 1 thing i give him credit for tho is he has always been able to be very objective. a quality many of you do not possess.

The 'it's words on a computer screen' is a poor response. If people started just spouting out any bs that came to their mind on forums and wrote out that phrase as a response to any disagreeing sentiment...shit would go nowhere.

With that said, the joke was no big deal although I didn't think it was especially funny. Race related jokes are the best anyways. There's way 'worse' shit in 99% of comedy stand-up shows/acts and people can't pretend they don't laugh at that stuff.

On December 06 2012 10:52 edzwoo wrote: bet you did nazi that coming

not sure how this hasn't gotten more love

On December 06 2012 05:49 Twisted wrote: Tbh can't believe mods haven't banned Marshall over that comment or 'joke' yet. Apparently there is absolutely no standard anymore. People get banned over stupid shit sometimes but this is ok? Oh and I don't think I've ever found a joke about the holocaust funny. Anyone that does deserves a lot less respect from me at least and I hope from the majority of people.

that joke isn't even that bad and you can't expect a ban for it when byrnesam has gotten away with over9000 nigger jokes.

I just wanna say that I love each and every single one of you, equally

no homo

That was really funny.

I seem to enter a downswing every time i try to eat healthy

And i have a heater every time i eat like a pig

:D its not a joke !

On December 06 2012 22:19 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On December 06 2012 05:49 Twisted wrote: Tbh can't believe mods haven't banned Marshall over that comment or 'joke' yet. Apparently there is absolutely no standard anymore. People get banned over stupid shit sometimes but this is ok? Oh and I don't think I've ever found a joke about the holocaust funny. Anyone that does deserves a lot less respect from me at least and I hope from the majority of people. that joke isn't even that bad and you can't expect a ban for it when byrnesam has gotten away with over9000 nigger jokes.

But Byrne has built up our emotional bank account quite high, so there's a lot to take from before he'd ever get close to sum zero xD