ETF/stocks discussion anyone? - Page 2

On August 28 2013 20:25 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On August 28 2013 17:43 cariadon wrote: Ray Dalio - How the economic machine works Ray Dalio, the founder of the largest fund in the world, has written this piece. Active value investing - V.Katsenelson Katsenelson makes a well-argued case for range-bound markets and jams everything you would want to know about or learn in an university in three years into like 270 pages of easy to read text. There is no substitute for reading and his book is the place i recommend starting from. Cliffs: Having a portfolio of 15-20 stocks is the way to go because stocks historically outperform other instruments. Your portfolio should be manageable. Each stock should be important enough for You to care but You need to have a few to ride out variance. Diversification by currencies, countries, sectors etc. is important. There will always be the doomsday prophets hugging their gold, pessimists saying shit is rigged, conservative investors with their small profits. Read a lot, use your brain and bulldoze. I don't understand why anyone would prefer 2+2 investing forum to books written by outstanding investors with decades of experience. The best thread over there is the one that recommends books, rest can be regarded as noise. Take advantage of the option to create playmoney accounts for trading/investing, zero cost learning. If you are hesitant to risk your money just yet there is no argument why you shouldn't experiment with playmoney. The thing about those guys writing the books... Why would they write them? To help out us plebians? Naw, cause that would hurt them and how they make money. Is it because they want to write a book for fun? Naw, cause writing a finance based book isn't fun. It's for money, because they can't make it as a trader. I also advise using play money only for learning how to get in and out of trades, what it looks like to have to pay commission, but never to actually try to test out strategies and whatnot. The main reason is because the playmoney isn't being accounted for in real life, and while a small little retail account isn't much in the ocean of liquidity, one little account can make a retail brokerage have to dump their risk, causing the tides to change.

Writing books can be win-win, in stocks unlike poker there is the possibility that everyone gains from it.
I scrolled up and saw you make some pretty wild suggestions. If you had any idea about who Ray Dalio was, you wouldn't make ignorant comments like that. His net worth is $12.5 billion. Link B.Graham wrote the Intelligent Investor and W.Buffett attended his class in university. Katsenelson teaches in the University of Colorado at Denver graduate school of business.

I've read almost every "established" trading book there is. It's like when Buffet told the world he's buying up gold, even though China and India are buying up gold in record amounts, and Germany is asking for it's gold back, and there's supposed to be ALL this demand for gold, yet it drops hundreds of points. Buffet isn't fucking stupid, he was short gold from the top, just like he was short the Pound back when he made his billion dollar trade.

Then why not read the books and do the exact opposite? Conspiracy theories everywhere.

Wow~ lots of clashing opinions here. This is exactly why it's hard to get real solid advice nowadays...everyone has their own strategies and ideology/methodology towards investments. I guess a good starting point would be those books.

I noticed on 2+2 the book recommendation thread was the best one thus far as someone in this thread already mentioned...not like i'm gonna take some guys word for it that X method/stock/fund is best.

I guess I'll start training/studying/researching on how to find out if companies have a true durable competitive advantage in their respective markets and just start firing off on them when i feel comfortable.

As for the time being I maybe end up still experimenting with some ETF action...at this point not really worried about maximizing value...just wanna be + ev and not completely punting atm...as I continue to study up and not be as fishy I'll probably want to start buying individual stock and gamble up like the rest of the folk.

Btw, thx for the insightful discussion guys and keeping it "mostly" civil...I figured if it was going past 2 pages it'd just degenerate into a flame war. stnd LP <3

i'd say read the reddit investing subgroup, but you're just going to get the same thing you're getting here. lots of people telling you to buy vanguard, and a huge circle jerk on buying tsla. i've held off on buying tsla for now, but some people are building models expecting it to reach 320-500 range (currently ~160). i'd need to feel a lot better about that entire market before i get back into active investing

personally, i have most of my money in vanguard funds. no fees, sick low ER's so they're almost all going to outperform any other funds out there. if you're looking for passive investing, vanguard funds will probably get 7-8% return, which is pretty damn good considering how risk averse that return is.

On August 29 2013 16:18 Bigbobm wrote: i'd say read the reddit investing subgroup, but you're just going to get the same thing you're getting here. lots of people telling you to buy vanguard, and a huge circle jerk on buying tsla. i've held off on buying tsla for now, but some people are building models expecting it to reach 320-500 range (currently ~160). i'd need to feel a lot better about that entire market before i get back into active investing personally, i have most of my money in vanguard funds. no fees, sick low ER's so they're almost all going to outperform any other funds out there. if you're looking for passive investing, vanguard funds will probably get 7-8% return, which is pretty damn good considering how risk averse that return is.

yea that's what i was thinking. Just throw some money in some vanguard funds until i learn more about this investing thing so i'm not such a goddamn fish before tackling real investing.

Just remember that at the end of the day, supply and demand are king and your edge will come from your accuracy in anticipating how market participants will act in the future. Disagreement is also an essential part of financial markets because there needs to be someone on the other side in order for a trade to occur.

Studying market microstructure theory will also prove invaluable to your learning process.
Here is a wikipedia summary of what this branch of finance entails.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_microstructure
I highly recommend this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Exchang...structure-Practitioners/dp/0195144708
Learning about market microstructure will give you a wholeistic view on how all markets operate at the core level, whether they be securities exchanges, car dealerships, or sports betting websites.

On August 29 2013 21:53 Spicy wrote: Just remember that at the end of the day, supply and demand are king and your edge will come from your accuracy in anticipating how market participants will act in the future. Disagreement is also an essential part of financial markets because there needs to be someone on the other side in order for a trade to occur. Studying market microstructure theory will also prove invaluable to your learning process. Here is a wikipedia summary of what this branch of finance entails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_microstructure I highly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Exchang...structure-Practitioners/dp/0195144708 Learning about market microstructure will give you a wholeistic view on how all markets operate at the core level, whether they be securities exchanges, car dealerships, or sports betting websites.

thx for that piece of advice. I'll look into that. Surely, a deeper understanding on the underlying aspects of the economy will benefit any investor. And It's probably safe to assume that the most successful investors generally have a higher level of understanding on the economy than most ;p

I guess i'll be dropping a few hundred bucks on study material...class will be in session soon.

On August 30 2013 01:53 YoMeR wrote: Show nested quote + On August 29 2013 21:53 Spicy wrote: Just remember that at the end of the day, supply and demand are king and your edge will come from your accuracy in anticipating how market participants will act in the future. Disagreement is also an essential part of financial markets because there needs to be someone on the other side in order for a trade to occur. Studying market microstructure theory will also prove invaluable to your learning process. Here is a wikipedia summary of what this branch of finance entails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_microstructure I highly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Exchang...structure-Practitioners/dp/0195144708 Learning about market microstructure will give you a wholeistic view on how all markets operate at the core level, whether they be securities exchanges, car dealerships, or sports betting websites. thx for that piece of advice. I'll look into that. Surely, a deeper understanding on the underlying aspects of the economy will benefit any investor. And It's probably safe to assume that the most successful investors generally have a higher level of understanding on the economy than most ;p I guess i'll be dropping a few hundred bucks on study material...class will be in session soon.

Don't go to classes unless it's to get a certificate, which i forget what it's called that i was going to use as an example. Also, you can pirate all trading books, so don't waste your money on them. Seriously, those books are fucking heavily overpriced.

Here



http://youtu.be/wD3KYlpE2lk

On August 30 2013 10:35 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On August 30 2013 01:53 YoMeR wrote:   On August 29 2013 21:53 Spicy wrote: Just remember that at the end of the day, supply and demand are king and your edge will come from your accuracy in anticipating how market participants will act in the future. Disagreement is also an essential part of financial markets because there needs to be someone on the other side in order for a trade to occur. Studying market microstructure theory will also prove invaluable to your learning process. Here is a wikipedia summary of what this branch of finance entails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_microstructure I highly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Exchang...structure-Practitioners/dp/0195144708 Learning about market microstructure will give you a wholeistic view on how all markets operate at the core level, whether they be securities exchanges, car dealerships, or sports betting websites. thx for that piece of advice. I'll look into that. Surely, a deeper understanding on the underlying aspects of the economy will benefit any investor. And It's probably safe to assume that the most successful investors generally have a higher level of understanding on the economy than most ;p I guess i'll be dropping a few hundred bucks on study material...class will be in session soon. Don't go to classes unless it's to get a certificate, which i forget what it's called that i was going to use as an example. Also, you can pirate all trading books, so don't waste your money on them. Seriously, those books are fucking heavily overpriced.

I feel obliged to call you out on what you say. Advising someone to not study and to encourage piracy is just ignorant.

On August 31 2013 15:59 cariadon wrote: Show nested quote + On August 30 2013 10:35 Gnarly wrote:   On August 30 2013 01:53 YoMeR wrote:   On August 29 2013 21:53 Spicy wrote: Just remember that at the end of the day, supply and demand are king and your edge will come from your accuracy in anticipating how market participants will act in the future. Disagreement is also an essential part of financial markets because there needs to be someone on the other side in order for a trade to occur. Studying market microstructure theory will also prove invaluable to your learning process. Here is a wikipedia summary of what this branch of finance entails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_microstructure I highly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Exchang...structure-Practitioners/dp/0195144708 Learning about market microstructure will give you a wholeistic view on how all markets operate at the core level, whether they be securities exchanges, car dealerships, or sports betting websites. thx for that piece of advice. I'll look into that. Surely, a deeper understanding on the underlying aspects of the economy will benefit any investor. And It's probably safe to assume that the most successful investors generally have a higher level of understanding on the economy than most ;p I guess i'll be dropping a few hundred bucks on study material...class will be in session soon. Don't go to classes unless it's to get a certificate, which i forget what it's called that i was going to use as an example. Also, you can pirate all trading books, so don't waste your money on them. Seriously, those books are fucking heavily overpriced. I feel obliged to call you out on what you say. Advising someone to not study and to encourage piracy is just ignorant.

I didn't say not to study, I said don't pay for heavily overpriced books. When you're looking at $150-$500 for a fucking book, and up to 5 figures for a class, to actually put money down on that when you can get most of it for free is ignorant.

I am very bullish on gold and silver, its my largest % of my portfolio and I would like to accumulate more while its still affordable.

we should have a stocks/investment/exchange thread

On August 29 2013 08:14 Gnarly wrote: Buffet isn't fucking stupid, he was short gold from the top, just like he was short the Pound back when he made his billion dollar trade.

Are you referring to George Soros 10 billion short trade which he made 2 billion from? I've never heard of Buffett's fund shorting anything (although it wouldn't surprise me).

On August 31 2013 18:04 casinocasino wrote: we should have a stocks/investment/exchange thread

On August 31 2013 23:45 devon06atX wrote: Show nested quote + On August 29 2013 08:14 Gnarly wrote: Buffet isn't fucking stupid, he was short gold from the top, just like he was short the Pound back when he made his billion dollar trade. Are you referring to George Soros 10 billion short trade which he made 2 billion from? I've never heard of Buffett's fund shorting anything (although it wouldn't surprise me).

Yeah, you're right, it was George. I get the old farts mixed up.

Not many classes have been attended.

Graphite mining companies

500 ounces of silver before your first stock or ounce of gold or crypto currency imo.

Bitcoins

litecoin is on a low low right now.

these are all things you will see huge gains in 5-10 years.

Just read today jp morgan chase bought 55 million ounces of tangible silver we aint talkn paper folks.