A pirate is born - Page 3

No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing.

I agree technically its stealing and self serving, but its stealing from an industry that has consistently given people the shaft over decades under the veil of a non existant free market and now people have an alternative to getting fucked, so if you want to steal from them? its fine for me, actually Id encourage you to do so... again, fuck them.

On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing.

What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something?

On April 14 2014 23:32 Baalim wrote: I agree technically its stealing and self serving, but its stealing from an industry that has consistently given people the shaft over decades under the veil of a non existant free market and now people have an alternative to getting fucked, so if you want to steal from them? its fine for me, actually Id encourage you to do so... again, fuck them.

Yes, they stole from me, so I'm just evening the table.

On April 14 2014 09:20 iop wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote:   On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea. Neither is Spotify, in Korea

My subscription from when I lived in sweden is still active, so I think I'm covered since premium has the travel thing.

Netflix just informs me I cant watch from Korea and no options

On April 14 2014 23:43 NewbSaibot wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing. What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something?

The persons time etc. However, because I paid, those finished products are mine. That's why I'm paying. Not to rent the design, but to own.

If I were to take the design without paying for it, and the guy was supposed to get paid by me, then that would be stealing.

If I were to digitally copy the design while leaving the original intact, and I was never supposed to pay the guy, then how is that stealing?

On April 15 2014 07:47 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 23:43 NewbSaibot wrote:   On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing. What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something? The persons time etc. However, because I paid, those finished products are mine. That's why I'm paying. Not to rent the design, but to own. If I were to take the design without paying for it, and the guy was supposed to get paid by me, then that would be stealing.

Ok so you feel that movies shouldnt be made available to rent, but only to own?

If I were to digitally copy the design while leaving the original intact, and I was never supposed to pay the guy, then how is that stealing?

How would you ever end up in this situation?

Your analogy is bad here. An architect gets paid to design a house, mostly be the person who's going to be living in that house. That architect is going to be doing what the person paying them asks them to do. Unless, of course, this architect works for a real estate firm or whatever and you see those neighborhoods where you can select premade plans to build your new house in.

A director, however, has to get funding from a studio or multiple parties, for which they will have some say in the movie, then they get a portion of what movie theaters make or unless they just pay a flat fee for buying the film. The studios has rights over the movies, but the director gets loyalties after his initial funding and after all the movie production stuff is over. Ya know, like series and whatnot. So, businesses decide to buy these movies in bulk to rent them out, or they buy the rights to do so digitally.

Have you heard of 3d printing? The analogy doesn't fit perfectly, cause you'd still have to supply the printer, I believe, but meh.

If I were the director, or the studios, whoever has the rights to the movies, then they can decide if they want people to be allowed to rent, if that's how it already is. You are thinking that this guy wanting the architect to design the house would rent his house out while living in it since there's no copy?

Some architect's pre-design homes with the intent to sell the designs to people who want to use them to build their houses. Just like a movie production studio can make a movie with the intent to sell it to you later if you are interested. Yet for some reason you think copying the film is different from copying the architect. Both created their content digitally, and spent many months doing so. Both could be copied in their entirty to a $5 thumb drive. In both scenarios we are placing value on the labor of the content creation, since you seem to think the content itself has no value because it is stored electronically and can be duplicated. You also seem to think that just because someone creates the content before you requested it, it is therefore meaningless and different than content created at your request.

A blue print needs a pencil and paper with some thinking. A movie needs an entire fucking camera crew, funding crew, clothing crew, music crew, transportation crew, food crew, all sorts of different people and things. One is someone doing something for himself, if not at request, and the other is doing something FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT. People can't go around making pre-movies without investors, and then decide to sell them to studios.

If I were to make some blueprints that I wanted to sell, if someone were to copy those and submit them to where I wanted to, sure, he could be stealing my IDEA, but is that idea MINE, or an idea that I had?

I dont even know what your point is about how a movie is produced "FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT"? What does this even mean? What point are you trying to drive home here? How is that any different from anything else that is produced? Everything is ultimately funded by someone. Are you trying to say that you arent stealing from the people who made the film, you are stealing from the people who paid everyone to make the film? As if they are some different entity not deserving of profit? You do realize that if "THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT" dont get paid, they'll STOP FUNDING IT, and then the people they were paying lose their jobs.

Not to mention your ridiculous oversimplification of home design process as "just a guy and a pencil". By that logic all a movie needs "is a guy and a camera with some thinking". You arent just paying for the guy and his pencil when he designs your home. You're paying for his $6000 AutoCAD software he used. You're paying for the $5000 computer he used. You're paying for the $50,000 and 4 years of education he received so he could design your home. You're paying for the 10+ years of experience he has so he can design you a quality home. You're paying for the total sum cumulative costs it took him so he could reach a point where he could sell his designs to you and you would want to pay for them, otherwise you would design your own fucking home. It's the same thing with a movie. Producers dont just have money trees. The entire film development process stems from other processes and RESOURCES that were required to reach that point. You have to account for ALL of that. Thats how prices are adjusted for any product in this world.

I dont even know what you're trying to say in your last sentence.

I forget what the disorder is called, but I have a handful of mental disorders. (well, one of them isn't a disorder of the mind but my mind is still affected by it. you would only think im trolling if i told you what it is.) I'm not the most coherent person to talk to, I know. Plus, sometimes, I just like to argue for no reason at all. Something I get from one of my grandpas.

What I'm trying to say is that ideas aren't physical property. They don't belong to anyone. Anyone can come up with a thought and make money off of it, regardless if someone already came up with the thought and is trying to make money off of it. That's why blueprint plans aren't a good analogy. They are simply ideas. A script, which directors write to get funding and whatnot, is akin to blueprints.

Also, directors get their money before movies go on rent. They still get royalties for them if they have ownership of the film, but digitally copying a film that someone's already been paid for doesn't seem like stealing to me.

A movie is not merely an idea though. Do you think you could direct Jurassic Park if someone gave you the money just because you had the script? There's a reason Spileberg can make a billion dollars with this "idea" and you cant, because he has the skill to implement this idea, and implementation is a form of labor. You are paying for the labor he put forth, not the idea, thats what I'm trying to get across to you. And everyone gets paid before the end result. I get paid my monthly salary whether I do my job or not. If I dont do my job, then they will stop paying me. But it's a trust relationship. Spielberg gets his payment up front because he has proven he can and will accomplish the task. If he repeatedly fails then guess what, he wont get paid anymore. And there are plenty of directors/writers/actors who actually DID have to wait until the results were in before they got paid. They didnt get shit until the profits rolled in. So if you stole their movie to the point it made no profit, then they literally got nothing for their efforts.

You do realize that if everyone pirated every movie without ever spending money on it once, that movies would cease to be made right? Studios arent just doing these for their health. It just so happens to be that for every pirate there are still 100 or 1000 paying customers who allow the film to profit anyway. When I pirate a movie I am hoping that the studios will in turn learn a lesson and publish their material in a different manner, one in which will not only benefit me through convenience, but probably actually make them more profit when it's all said and done. But that's a whole other argument. I just dont try to pretend like what I'm doing isnt stealing, I fully admit I just dont care lol. At least be honest about it. It's not like you need to lie to yourself so you can sleep easy at night because you pirated some movie. Which is what bugs me when people like you defend it to their grave.

>if you "stole", which I'll correct to digitally copying, their movie, they aren't getting paid for their efforts

Wow, so if I pirated one movie, that completely negates all the other sales? Shit, maybe I should watch out, then...

If everyone went to pirating, the studios would be forced to change how they make their profit. They would probably be the seeders of the film, and somehow be able to profit off of the people seeding off them or something. There are already studios who "leak" their products before launch on torrent sites TO FURTHER PROFIT.

>not realize that pirating has actually made products sell

What do you say to studios who using pirating? Does that bug you?

On April 16 2014 16:52 Gnarly wrote: >if you "stole", which I'll correct to digitally copying, their movie, they aren't getting paid for their efforts

No you will not "correct" that. You cant digitally copy someones labor. You cant digitally copy the 80 hours of work they spent per week for the last 2 months filming it, and the 6 months they spent editing it. Remember, you arent paying for the product, you are paying for the labor. Why do you think a Camaro costs $30,000? Because thats how much a bunch of steel and plastic costs? NO. The cost of the raw materials when you buy anything, whether it's a loaf of bread, a jug of milk, or a sportscar is merely an expense from the builder being passed along to you. It cost them 12 cents per pound of steel to build your car, so they are going to charge you 20 cents per pound to cover their cost and the time it took to mold it.

On April 16 2014 16:52 Gnarly wrote: Wow, so if I pirated one movie, that completely negates all the other sales? Shit, maybe I should watch out, then...

Uh no, it doesnt negate ALL the sales Mr. Extreme, but obviously it does negate it to some degree. The more people who do it, the more it gets negated.

If everyone went to pirating, the studios would be forced to change how they make their profit. They would probably be the seeders of the film, and somehow be able to profit....

until you can answer that part you have no business pirating peoples shit and basically telling them to "figure out how to profit".

There are already studios who "leak" their products before launch on torrent sites TO FURTHER PROFIT.

lol if there's any truth to this it would only be to stir publicity for a film. If piracy made the money then the film would not need to be leaked, they would just post it on youtube FOR FREE. All a leak can do is interest viewers into renting it FOR MONEY who otherwise are too lazy or dont know how to pirate. Money does not just magically get deposited into a filmmakers bank account just because people saw the film.

>not realize that pirating has actually made products sell What do you say to studios who using pirating? Does that bug you?

It's not the piracy that makes the product sell genius. It's the EXPOSURE. It's pretty easy for people to learn of your product if you give it away for free. Consider it like offering a coupon, the goal is to entice people into SPENDING MONEY. Like when a musician releases a few tracks or even an entire album for free. He hopes that you will either become interested in his music and pay for the next album, or pay to see him in concert, or help him get noticed by a larger studio so he can land a gig playing on TV, or have his music purchased for the soundtrack to a film, etc etc etc. Eventually at some point he has to get paid otherwise he cant fucking do it. And if his little leak experiment fails, then he sinks and thats it. It's a gamble that has worked for some companies before, but you cannot directly equate the act of a free-release to spontaneously generate revenue all by itself. You think when Bank of America learns that Transformers 9 has been leaked they say "bravo Paramount, we just added a couple of zeroes to your balance"?

>no you will not correct that








I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I can't stop laughing and it's been like ten minutes. I need to walk away.

I guess you give up then.

Imagine the second to last picture. That's my face even looking at the title of this thread.

>no you will not correct that

Probably the funniest post ever on this site.

>Remember, you arent paying for the product, you are paying for the labor. Why do you think a Camaro costs $30,000? Because thats how much a bunch of steel and plastic costs? NO. The cost of the raw materials when you buy anything, whether it's a loaf of bread, a jug of milk, or a sportscar is merely an expense from the builder being passed along to you. It cost them 12 cents per pound of steel to build your car, so they are going to charge you 20 cents per pound to cover their cost and the time it took to mold it.

So, let me get this straight. I'm not paying for the product, which the materials needed cost more than the staffing costs, but paying for the labor which is around 25% of the total cost?

>labor

Right... Aren't automobile manufacturers automating the process more and more and more?

Oh, you forgot the fact that you can't buy the vehicle straight from the manufacturer, you have to buy it from a dealership, who bough the cars in bulk from the manufacturer, meaning they have to further raise the price. So, really, when I'm buying a car, I'm really just paying the guy who sold it to me, cause the people who made the car already got paid. Now, why the fuck would I want to give some kid money for simply talking to me, when I'd rather give my money straight to the people who helped make the car along with the help of computers, at a lower cost?

What you're failing to grasp is the root cause of all pricing in the first place. You cant just say that Ford buys their screws from China and thats the end of it. How did that screw come to exist in the first place? Because China bought it from a factory that makes screws. Well how did that factory come to make screws? Because they bought a screw making machine from some company in Russia. Well how did that russian company make the screw making machine? And what kind of screws hold that machine together? It's not like raw product just spawned into existence and somebody decided to sell it. Each time someone built something that would later be used to build something else, that would yet again be used to build something else, the price went up. The price went up because of the additional labor required each time to create it. Labor is the ultimate driving factor in anything. Without labor the product never exists. This is why it's so important you respect the work that someone puts forth and not just the cost of what they used to execute that work. And as long as you're going to employ this pathetic copout of "I just duplicated data" then you need to be reminded that it's not the data you paid for, it's the labor that went into creating that data.

Just because someone budgets "25% labor" for the construction of the space shuttle does not mean that the space shuttle itself exists as a biproduct of the cost of the materials representing 75% of its budget. But nobody bothers to look beyond this because it's irrelevant, unless you're stealing. You might as well say a NASA manager could tell his rocket scientist "guys you arent being paid today, we simply duplicated your work and dont need to pay for the effort you put forth creating it. Nevermind the 80 hours you spent this month doing it, that doesnt count. You used a computer to design this engine, and that design is simply an idea, that exists digitally, so we cant steal it from you!". They would all quit and the project would never be finished. The only reason you're able to pirate a movie is because you know movies will be made despite your theft, because someone else out there is willing to pay.

You're still stuck in this childlike mentality of "i copy movie, movie made by studio, studio paid by investor, studio not lose anything, copying ok". When people dont feel like it's worth their effort to make something anymore because someone like you does not respect the skill required to do so because you cant wrap your mind around the complexity of a design process and simply look at the immediate end result, they stop working for you.

>This is why it's so important you respect the work

See, that's the problem. You feel that respect is owed to these people. I don't. Respect is earned, not given.

>stealing

There's that word again. What am I stealing?

>You might as well say a NASA manager could tell his rocket scientist "guys you arent being paid today, we simply duplicated your work and dont need to pay for the effort you put forth creating it. Nevermind the 80 hours you spent this month doing it, that doesnt count. You used a computer to design this engine, and that design is simply an idea, that exists digitally, so we cant steal it from you!"

This is another problem. You think ideas are someone's properties. Regardless of the fact that the engineer is on a contract and is legally to be paid, you seem to misconstrue it as that you can enslave someone.

>stop working for you

But the consumer is a mass.

>You're still stuck in this childlike mentality of "i copy movie, movie made by studio, studio paid by investor, studio not lose anything, copying ok". When people dont feel like it's worth their effort to make something anymore because someone like you does not respect the skill required to do so because you cant warp your mind around the complexity of a design process and simply look at the immediate end result, they stop working for you.

Ad hom like fuck.