UFC 183: Silva vs. Diaz - Page 11

if you were an up and coming fighter, why wouldnt you use roids?
if you were a middling fighter, why wouldnt you use roids?
if you were an older fighter trying to stay competitive, why wouldnt you use roids?
if you were a champion facing challengers who are all on roids, why wouldnt you use them too?

i think it comes down to a few things.
1) using roids is not bad for you when done correctly. in fact it may improve overall health
2) everyone else is using them
3) it helps you recover faster, train harder and makes you a better fighter
4) the rewards outweigh the risks, and most people get away with it

i assume almost everyone is on them, unless they are either too poor to get the right roids or have some ethical or moral qualms with using and consider it cheating. i wonder why im not on them myself really. but id like more research done before i jump into using something i dont need.

there are a few guys that would shock me to find out if they ever used. machida, bj penn, brian stann, a few others, i just dont believe they ever used.

some examples of guys id assume used, or would bet on having used at 1:1 if it was somehow verifiable
-fedor is from russia and fought in pride, an organization that not only did not test for steroids, but encouraged their use.
-gsp was the richest fighter for years and probably on the forefront of whatever drugs were available at the time.
-jones T/E levels were absurd to the point that i dont believe theres another explanation besides roid usage
-anderson was just caught and the still frame of the syringes in his bathroom are another indicator of past use
-all of the pride GOATs likely used
-randy obviously used for years, probably HGH/TRT since he had so much more money than everyone else early on.

On February 04 2015 17:38 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 15:13 Spitfiree wrote:   On February 04 2015 11:31 traxamillion wrote: wait why would diaz get slammed? why wouldnt they both get slammed? what should and shouldn't be are two different things, the fact is there are rules, they both broke them, they should both suffer the consequences because breaking serious rules is a good reason to slam someone. breaking extremely fucking dumb rules is not.

this

i dont care about it at all
i dunno if its because i stopped caring about mma a while ago or if its because i think peds should be allowed at once
still imt not shocked or disappointed or anything like that. silva could have retired without that * on his career thou

On February 04 2015 18:21 tomson wrote: I'm surprised people are surprised. I'd assume everyone without exception competing at that level is on some sort of drug/steroid, am I wrong?

you aren't wrong, chuck lidell and his gym crew would party with my fraternity back in san luis obispo like ten years ago and do tons of cocaine but i never heard much about roids. Later i've met more fighters trying to do the UFC thing and from what i've seen most guys do at least something. whether it is just an injection of un esterified testosterone suspension right before a fight for a boost (undetectable in less than a day if not hours) or full blown cycling regularly most fighters do something at some point. look at the prevalence in other sports like baseball or cycling. of course fighting is just as bad or worse.

also apparently anderson was using a pretty noob prohormone as part of his cycle

On February 04 2015 17:49 Spitfiree wrote: obviously the weed rule is retarded as fuck that being said, you are a professional athlete that signed a specific contract with specific clause which consists of not smoking the weed, you agree to those terms in order to earn the money they give you otherwise there are penalties is the clause dumb as fuck? yes should it be changed? yes did you sign it ? yes do you deserve to get fined ? yes

you asked "why wouldn't they both get slammed?"
i took your softball question and knocked it out of the park with the obvious correct answer. what is all this other stuff you're going on about? was that directed at me for some reason?

but ill address what you said anyways...
"do you deserve to get fined?" NO.
should you get fined? yes, because selective enforcement can lead to unfair treatment and favoritism, and because one of the best ways to get a dumb rule changed is to strictly enforce it. but he doesn't "deserve" the fine, the fine should only be imposed as a means to an end - diaz is just a victim in this situation, and deserves to be applauded for not being a pussy and following dumb rules just because they're rules.

he signed it because he had 2 options: sign it, or not make any money. he didn't sign it because he agrees with it. if you sign something because you actually agree with it and its intent, and then go back on it, then you would deserve the punishment. but thats not the case here. he has explicitly stated hes going to defy these rules repeatedly, and lobbied to get them changed, so that makes entirely undeserving of any punishment or public shaming.

On February 04 2015 20:10 Raidern wrote: i dont care about it at all i dunno if its because i stopped caring about mma a while ago or if its because i think peds should be allowed at once still imt not shocked or disappointed or anything like that. silva could have retired without that * on his career thou

You've said this multiple times, in multiple UFC threads, yet you continue to view and post in these threads. MMA might not be as appealing to you as it once was, but stop kidding yourself; you do care about MMA.

On February 04 2015 19:48 Daut wrote: there are a few guys that would shock me to find out if they ever used. machida, bj penn, brian stann, a few others, i just dont believe they ever used. some examples of guys id assume used, or would bet on having used at 1:1 if it was somehow verifiable -fedor is from russia and fought in pride, an organization that not only did not test for steroids, but encouraged their use.

Fuck off Daut... now I feel like im wasting my time exercising... give me some roids!!!

On February 04 2015 21:24 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: "do you deserve to get fined?" NO. should you get fined? yes, .

Yeah, you're right ^_^

Anyways yeah it's not surprising that he was on roids, its just came off in such a way cause most people still believe that the best of the best would never "cheat" to achieve greatness

On February 04 2015 22:48 PuertoRican wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 20:10 Raidern wrote: i dont care about it at all i dunno if its because i stopped caring about mma a while ago or if its because i think peds should be allowed at once still imt not shocked or disappointed or anything like that. silva could have retired without that * on his career thou You've said this multiple times, in multiple UFC threads, yet you continue to view and post in these threads. MMA might not be as appealing to you as it once was, but stop kidding yourself; you do care about MMA.

=]
i obviously enjoy watching it (mostly main events or fights that seem appealing to me) and like to see what people are commenting about what's going on, what i meant with not caring might sound weird to you, but i used to check sherdog and portaldovt (brazilian forum) countless times a day to check news and would get upset if X or Z lost a fight. This doesnt happen anymore. I take it as entertaining but still like to check news occasionally and will probably never stop reading your threads and commenting on them on LP unless you stop creating them. But ye i'll stop emphasizing that i dont care. If you noticed i've been posting the same thing on different threads then it's because i'm probably overdoing it lol

-edit: baals gif post is hilarious lmao

On February 04 2015 21:32 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: he signed it because he had 2 options: sign it, or not make any money. he didn't sign it because he agrees with it. if you sign something because you actually agree with it and its intent, and then go back on it, then you would deserve the punishment. but thats not the case here. he has explicitly stated hes going to defy these rules repeatedly, and lobbied to get them changed, so that makes entirely undeserving of any punishment or public shaming.

i disagree with you. If your employer bans something and you dont agree with it u find a new employer. I think enough people not agreeing and not fighting would get the rule changed. not breaking it cause u dont agree with it.

But i guess that might be unrealistic since people need their money.. but thats just the way it is.

On February 05 2015 14:01 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 21:32 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: he signed it because he had 2 options: sign it, or not make any money. he didn't sign it because he agrees with it. if you sign something because you actually agree with it and its intent, and then go back on it, then you would deserve the punishment. but thats not the case here. he has explicitly stated hes going to defy these rules repeatedly, and lobbied to get them changed, so that makes entirely undeserving of any punishment or public shaming. i disagree with you. If your employer bans something and you dont agree with it u find a new employer. I think enough people not agreeing and not fighting would get the rule changed. not breaking it cause u dont agree with it. But i guess that might be unrealistic since people need their money.. but thats just the way it is.

I think we basically agree. In a perfect world, you're right. But in reality, its just too unrealistic to expect people to give up money in fighting this cause, especially since it wouldn't be an effective tactic unless everyone else does it too.

On February 04 2015 19:48 Daut wrote: if you were an up and coming fighter, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were a middling fighter, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were an older fighter trying to stay competitive, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were a champion facing challengers who are all on roids, why wouldnt you use them too? i think it comes down to a few things. 1) using roids is not bad for you when done correctly. in fact it may improve overall health 2) everyone else is using them 3) it helps you recover faster, train harder and makes you a better fighter 4) the rewards outweigh the risks, and most people get away with it i assume almost everyone is on them, unless they are either too poor to get the right roids or have some ethical or moral qualms with using and consider it cheating. i wonder why im not on them myself really. but id like more research done before i jump into using something i dont need. there are a few guys that would shock me to find out if they ever used. machida, bj penn, brian stann, a few others, i just dont believe they ever used. some examples of guys id assume used, or would bet on having used at 1:1 if it was somehow verifiable -fedor is from russia and fought in pride, an organization that not only did not test for steroids, but encouraged their use. -gsp was the richest fighter for years and probably on the forefront of whatever drugs were available at the time. -jones T/E levels were absurd to the point that i dont believe theres another explanation besides roid usage -anderson was just caught and the still frame of the syringes in his bathroom are another indicator of past use -all of the pride GOATs likely used -randy obviously used for years, probably HGH/TRT since he had so much more money than everyone else early on.

Fedor was a sambo champion at the height of his career and an olympic judo alternate. It's dumb to lump him in so easily with the pride argument without mentioning that he likely has gone through more testing in his career than most fighters in the UFC do now. He also looked nothing like a steroid user. Pride still had a ton of steroid abuse, UFC fighters still use them while being tested, looks aren't everything, Armstrong was tested plenty, but your approach to Fedor bringing it all down to the reasoning of fighting in pride is just so lazy. I have a hard time believing GSP was on steroids considering everything he has said the past few years. He would basically have to be a multitude more psychotic than Armstrong which I just have no reason to believe he is at all. Besides aliens. Both may or may not have been on steroids but they have plenty speaking in favor of them compared to most unlike your dumb post suggests.

On February 04 2015 15:13 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 11:31 traxamillion wrote: wait why would diaz get slammed? why wouldnt they both get slammed? what should and shouldn't be are two different things, the fact is there are rules, they both broke them, they should both suffer the consequences

Generally breaking rules is looked down upon for ethical reasons because rules are supposed to represent our ethical standards. However breaking rules is not always ethically questionable. You have to be able to differentiate between the two situations. Even when breaking rules is ethically questionable it is almost rarely the same. Think of stealing candy versus armed robbery. The situation of Diaz and Anderson just isn't equal.

On February 05 2015 14:01 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 21:32 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: he signed it because he had 2 options: sign it, or not make any money. he didn't sign it because he agrees with it. if you sign something because you actually agree with it and its intent, and then go back on it, then you would deserve the punishment. but thats not the case here. he has explicitly stated hes going to defy these rules repeatedly, and lobbied to get them changed, so that makes entirely undeserving of any punishment or public shaming. i disagree with you. If your employer bans something and you dont agree with it u find a new employer. I think enough people not agreeing and not fighting would get the rule changed. not breaking it cause u dont agree with it. But i guess that might be unrealistic since people need their money.. but thats just the way it is.

extremely unrealistic take on this. I hated my last employer they screwed me regularly; still didn't mean i could simply walk out without suffering bad consequences

On February 05 2015 14:01 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2015 21:32 WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: he signed it because he had 2 options: sign it, or not make any money. he didn't sign it because he agrees with it. if you sign something because you actually agree with it and its intent, and then go back on it, then you would deserve the punishment. but thats not the case here. he has explicitly stated hes going to defy these rules repeatedly, and lobbied to get them changed, so that makes entirely undeserving of any punishment or public shaming. i disagree with you. If your employer bans something and you dont agree with it u find a new employer. I think enough people not agreeing and not fighting would get the rule changed. not breaking it cause u dont agree with it. But i guess that might be unrealistic since people need their money.. but thats just the way it is.

This is such an incredibly naive and shortsighted concept to apply to anything or anyone in life really. And so I'm not sure how you could possibly bring it up in relation to professional fighters where their time frame to collect money in their lives, athletic prime, is so relatively short compared to other careers. Not to mention that their options are actually limited in a realistic sense. Can't really counter by saying a high level fighter should stand up for his beliefs and go toil away at some organization like king of the cage or some bullshit because hey, they're in agreement in general philosophies.

On February 05 2015 18:19 Nazgul wrote: [QUOTE]On February 04 2015 19:48 Daut wrote: if you were an up and coming fighter, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were a middling fighter, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were an older fighter trying to stay competitive, why wouldnt you use roids? if you were a champion facing challengers who are all on roids, why wouldnt you use them too? i think it comes down to a few things. 1) using roids is not bad for you when done correctly. in fact it may improve overall health 2) everyone else is using them 3) it helps you recover faster, train harder and makes you a better fighter 4) the rewards outweigh the risks, and most people get away with it i assume almost everyone is on them, unless they are either too poor to get the right roids or have some ethical or moral qualms with using and consider it cheating. i wonder why im not on them myself really. but id like more research done before i jump into using something i dont need. there are a few guys that would shock me to find out if they ever used. machida, bj penn, brian stann, a few others, i just dont believe they ever used. some examples of guys id assume used, or would bet on having used at 1:1 if it was somehow verifiable -fedor is from russia and fought in pride, an organization that not only did not test for steroids, but encouraged their use. -gsp was the richest fighter for years and probably on the forefront of whatever drugs were available at the time. -jones T/E levels were absurd to the point that i dont believe theres another explanation besides roid usage -anderson was just caught and the still frame of the syringes in his bathroom are another indicator of past use -all of the pride GOATs likely used -randy obviously used for years, probably HGH/TRT since he had so much more money than everyone else early on. Fedor was a sambo champion at the height of his career and an olympic judo alternate. It's dumb to lump him in so easily with the pride argument without mentioning that he likely has gone through more testing in his career than most fighters in the UFC do now. He also looked nothing like a steroid user. Pride still had a ton of steroid abuse, UFC fighters still use them while being tested, looks aren't everything, Armstrong was tested plenty, but your approach to Fedor bringing it all down to the reasoning of fighting in pride is just so lazy. I have a hard time believing GSP was on steroids considering everything he has said the past few years. He would basically have to be a multitude more psychotic than Armstrong which I just have no reason to believe he is at all. Besides aliens. Both may or may not have been on steroids but they have plenty speaking in favor of them compared to most unlike your dumb post suggests.

I think it was stupid that the best link made in the post for GSP having done PED's was that he was 'the richest fighter for years.' But I definitely don't think he has to be some crazy psycho to have said what he said while he was himself a user. And comparing him in a worse light (if he was guilty) to Lance...well I don't think you've really read enough about Lance. Lance's lies went on for so long...repeated in so many conversations/interviews/everything forever...implicated/ruined the reputation/career of others around him so he could keep up his national hero stature....on a much much larger, multi-national scale than a fighter in MMA, even GSP, lying about steroids.

As for Fedor...obviously could never say for sure but that guy might be the one guy where you could say an eye test could be accurate. I'd just have to believe that if he were taking steroids of any form throughout his career, his body would've developed a bulging muscle here or there. At least one...anywhere. As it was, he was wrecking guys with the physique of some hillbilly coal miner

Brian Stann would've been #1 on my list for shock if they had been caught. I think he is the real one where he'd have to have been psychopathic. The intensity and passion in his voice when he speaks out against PED's...I feel it's just different. He also backed it up by retiring asap after losing violently to an obvious roidhead, Wanderlei...also different because he's not rich like GSP, who's retirement was pretty convenient in many ways (not implying all bad). Then there's the fact that he was awarded a silver star for a five day firefight in Iraq...a fact that he could've beaten the public's head with over and over again to get a higher profile yet it was really the announcers/promotion that pushed that angle. He actually always seemed reticent to even talk about it. That has to count for something when judging the character of someone for 'cheating.'

Other than him, BJ for obvious reasons. And maybe I'm biased but the day Nick pisses for anything but a lot of green shit, I'd be pretty shocked

I can vouch for Fedor, no steroids

Russian made roids make you fat. Crocop was probably using imported ones