Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 121

On May 10 2019 23:51 Spitfiree wrote: There are some real problems with people having "no-gender" underaged kids Loco, what about that? If you wanna build a better society for trans community you need to cut out all ridiculous edge cases or good luck pushing any improvement for them. That also includes bureaucratic stuff. You know why? Cause your entire society runs on "bureaucratic" stuff whether you like it or not.

In "my" society? No, bureaucracies are a problem of centralization. One of the pillars of "my" society is decentralization.

I genuinely have no idea what you're arguing for and I will bluntly say that I don't care. I don't care what some people on liquidpoker think about gender issues, especially trans issues. Responding to the kind of stuff that passes for important discussion here for me is almost like taking time out my day to argue with someone who thinks women shouldn't vote.

If you come to have a trans or a non-binary friend or relative and you want to tell me what they think about some of these issues first before you go into your opinions, then I'll be all ears. Some things people don't understand/can't understand/won't understand until it's close enough to them.

So minorities are inherently right because they are minorities is what you're saying. Gotcha. Indeed cba discussing that either

Also apparently you live in a delusion, cause your beliefs don't matter until they are turned into a reality. I'd like to live in a decentralized society as well, probably not gonna happen in my lifetime

It's also hard for you to understand that the main problem trans people face are the people that are afraid of them. The only way to make the world for trans-people better is to make those people that hate them, to stop being afraid of them and show them that they are actually clueless and their beliefs are stupid. Which believe it or not, is not gonna happen the way the trans community is pushing.

Good luck brute forcing gender ideas to society.

If by "being right" you mean they are right to demand equal rights and treatment, i.e. they should not be dehumanized and made to struggle unfairly in a miserably alienated existence in order to assuage people's prejudices and preserve societal traditions, then yes. They're right.

Yeah, so the beliefs of women who fought for the right to vote didn't matter until they actually got the right. Also, my society already exists in the world currently, so if you want to attack someone with pipe dreams, try free-market capitalists. (Or really any person who supports capitalism right now in the face of collapse -- what we have now is not a working society by any definition when it is constantly undermining itself and threatening its own existence.)

The main reason why I don't care to engage in this discussion is not because I think there are no problems, it's that the problems are complex and most of the complexity can't even be gotten to because so much time has to be spent unpacking all of the assumptions that you are making and that you think I am making. Things like "the trans community aren't going to get things done the way they're going about it now" just means absolutely nothing to me. I have no idea what this refers to and why you are in a better place than a trans activist to know best. I just can't do anything with that.

On May 10 2019 22:51 Loco wrote: Literally the only reason I can think why someone would bring that up other than some bullshit bureaucratic stuff is because they are dealing with transphobic feelings and they feel like trans people can fuck with them by deciding to change their pronouns whenever they want ("why should i address people properly if they can say they're this gender and change their mind about it later?!!?'') . It serves no purpose but to distract from the real problems these people face every day and discuss whatever policies should be put in place to make their lives better. It could be excused if there was some kind of trend where people are actually doing this, and so that's why it matters not to just spread this around without anything to back it up. Dysphoria is a medical term and it's not taboo in "SJW circles" as far as I know, and it's likely to be much more powerful in teenage years when your identity has just begun developing for most. Gender is not a simple binary and there are no doubt some people who do end up detransitioning but that doesn't mean you would have done them a favor by not respecting their choice at the time and assuming they are simply afflicted with a mental illness and they don't know their own gender. I'm pretty sure the main reason for detransitioning has to do with not being able to "pass" in society, and so facing too much discrimination and making social relationships too difficult, but the person retains the same gender identity regardless.

No, it brings up the convenience of switching genders at will when it suits you.

Anyway you totally went off topic here, I'm talking specifically about legal gender and jail and sport competition.

Gender dysphoria is being as a bad word by many SJW since "its not a disease and trans women are literally biological women etc", personally I would refer to anybody in the way the present themselves, I wouldn't go out of my wa to call Caitlyn Jenner "he" obviously but if someone edgelord ask me to call them "zey" I'll glady comply if they refer to me as "your majesty".

So again, the specific questions is what are your thoughts on transgender ppl who are sentenced to jail and how do they fit in the world of pro sports?

As a matter of fact, transsexuals face many of the same difficulties many other "groups" face legally e.g. marriage - where the government shouldn't be involved at all (obv problem for all non-hetero-sexual couples). Parenthood - where male parents have it much worse than any other group does.

It's actually a pretty bad example that you're giving about the woman voting rights since the woman voting rights movement was started by men. The vast majority of women did not want voting rights originally. It was objectively better for everyone that they have those rights. Which completely disregards the "who"of the topic and executes the objectively good "what", thus what I meant that what the minorities "want" is not necessarily what they should get. (Fun fact, even though women already had voting rights for decades in Europe, American women actually had a movement to oppose women that wanted voting rights lmao)

Also, the transgender community is going against itself. Laws that protect them cannot be passed unless there is some kind of a language which the bureaucrats understand. And no, they won't pass laws for 105 genders. That's how the system works. People won't be able to be a man one day and a woman the next, and expect laws to treat them differently. They should also completely drop the speech laws agenda, cause that's how you get everyone to hate you, especially in a place like the USA. (And with right)

And please do show me where that decentralized society exists prosperously outside of the jurisdiction of a centralized country.

I don't have any (new) worthwhile thoughts to contribute to those topics. I've already talked about the sports issues here when it was the hot topic following the Bill C-16 discussions and we had a trans person active on here. I've spent little to no time studying the matter since then. I don't like to have opinions about things that I know little about. I'll just go and look at the work of some sociologists that work in those fields to get an update on them when I feel like it.

As for jails, they should be where they want to be. I find all forms of paternalism to be sickening, except maybe what behavioral economists talk about in "nudge theory". My only wish is that law and culture would ideally step out of the way and let people be however they are and express themselves however they want, as long as they aren't hurting other people or exploiting them. In a capitalist society I can see how being trans can give you an edge in sports and so you can technically be exploiting others. To me that's not an issue of gender, that's an issue of capitalism. I don't like competitive sport and in a truly democratic society like there is in Rojava you have martial arts that everyone can participate in and where you have a genuine competence hierarchy.

Again, "switching genders" doesn't seem to be a real issue in the world right now, so it distracts from real world problems. That's the point I was making. It's really just cynical at best and xenophobic fuel at worst. I have enough empathy for a population that doesn't fit into current society to not add fuel to the fire in the form of making their problems into my issues, and my worries of being fooled or worries of their "gaming the system to get an advantage whenever they like".

And please do show me where that decentralized society exists prosperously outside of the jurisdiction of a centralized country.

Rojava has been de facto autonomous since 2012 and it doesn't have a state. There are no compromises with the Syrian government. The only "compromise" might in the form of foreign state support for armament purposes.

Transwoman DESTROYS snowflake Shapiro! ! !

On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses

Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.)

Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so?

On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so?

The "OK" symbol has been around forever and is a 4chan joke.
https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture.

You are simply crazy.

On May 11 2019 01:28 Loco wrote: I don't have any (new) worthwhile thoughts to contribute to those topics. I've already talked about the sports issues here when it was the hot topic following the Bill C-16 discussions and we had a trans person active on here. I've spent little to no time studying the matter since then. I don't like to have opinions about things that I know little about. I'll just go and look at the work of some sociologists that work in those fields to get an update on them when I feel like it.

So basically you wont give your opinion.

As for jails, they should be where they want to be.

Ladies and gentlemen, behold the brilliant mind of your local communist

In a capitalist society I can see how being trans can give you an edge in sports and so you can technically be exploiting others. To me that's not an issue of gender, that's an issue of capitalism.{/quote] So male to female trans destroying women in sports is a capitalism problem. right... [quote]I don't like competitive sport and in a truly democratic society like there is in Rojava you have martial arts that everyone can participate in and where you have a genuine competence hierarchy.

In the utopia there wont be any sports, there is only Tai-Chi, the true hierarchy!.

Again, "switching genders" doesn't seem to be a real issue in the world right now, so it distracts from real world problems.

again, you wont answer.




These conversations are such a treat, I love it! :D Loco you... you complete me lol

On May 11 2019 04:54 GoTuNk wrote: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote:   On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so? The "OK" symbol has been around forever and is a 4chan joke. https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture. You are simply crazy.

First of all, put that amount of stuff in a spoiler

Second of all, are you getting bankrolled by wealthy alt-right backers to make this post?

I mean you are clearly an idiot and not getting bankrolled by wealthy alt-right backers but context and meaning is everything. My black psychotherapist gave me an ok sign the other day in the context that things are ok. Watch that first video again.....................

On May 11 2019 05:56 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 01:28 Loco wrote: I don't have any (new) worthwhile thoughts to contribute to those topics. I've already talked about the sports issues here when it was the hot topic following the Bill C-16 discussions and we had a trans person active on here. I've spent little to no time studying the matter since then. I don't like to have opinions about things that I know little about. I'll just go and look at the work of some sociologists that work in those fields to get an update on them when I feel like it. So basically you wont give your opinion.   As for jails, they should be where they want to be. Ladies and gentlemen, behold the brilliant mind of your local communist   In a capitalist society I can see how being trans can give you an edge in sports and so you can technically be exploiting others. To me that's not an issue of gender, that's an issue of capitalism.{/quote] So male to female trans destroying women in sports is a capitalism problem. right... [quote]I don't like competitive sport and in a truly democratic society like there is in Rojava you have martial arts that everyone can participate in and where you have a genuine competence hierarchy. In the utopia there wont be any sports, there is only Tai-Chi, the true hierarchy!.   Again, "switching genders" doesn't seem to be a real issue in the world right now, so it distracts from real world problems. again, you wont answer. These conversations are such a treat, I love it! :D Loco you... you complete me lol

Look at Germany or Sweden's prison system. Her gender wouldn't be an issue in these countries. That's kind of the whole point.

I actually think the world would be a better place if Tai Chi was more popular than American Football but I certainly wouldn't go into a NFL bar in Lubbock, Texas and try to convert people.

I don't agree that trans females should be able to compete in say olympic lifting but that seems like such a trivial thing. Maybe not I don't know.

How can someone go from protoss to communism. Makes no sense

Are you real...

Raqqa - the biggest city of Rojava was the capital of ISIS until last year when it got freed.

THATS your example of working decentralized society? God fucking damn.

On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so?

you still can't punch people you don't like

On May 11 2019 04:54 GoTuNk wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote:   On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so? The "OK" symbol has been around forever and is a 4chan joke. https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture. You are simply crazy.

Wow! In two short sentences, you've managed to

(1) Try to gaslight me
(2) Fail to answer a single one of my questions (just as you did in the past, you've ran away from every tough question)
(3) Trivialized mass murder -- "it's just trolling"
(4) Fall for a photoshopped picture of Obama
(5) Post an article that doesn't make the point that you think it's making. It still says that it is a symbol of white supremacy and it doesn't say you can no longer tie it to white supremacist signaling when you can find rhetoric and actions like I obviously did, you dumbass. Just because there's a group of nihilistic edgelords on the internet who think it's funny doesn't mean it has lost all of its original meaning.

On May 11 2019 12:30 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote: + Show Spoiler +   On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so? you still can't punch people you don't like

Predictable non-response and inability to take responsibility for your errors (or admit whose side you're really on I guess?).

On May 11 2019 10:32 Spitfiree wrote: Are you real... Raqqa - the biggest city of Rojava was the capital of ISIS until last year when it got freed. THATS your example of working decentralized society? God fucking damn.

You're not making an argument here, are you? Or is the argument that a decentralized autonomous region is not allowed to grow? Why don't you tell me how it is not working, since you are an expert on the subject and I'm clearly clueless according to you? What's the standard by which you decide whether a society is working? How many McDonald's it has?

Why does it feel like if we were in the 1950s you would be telling me: "Are you for real? a handful of black people who did a bus boycott and sat where they weren't supposed to is NOT a real social justice movement."

On May 11 2019 05:56 Baalim wrote: In the utopia there wont be any sports, there is only Tai-Chi, the true hierarchy!.

You're misrepresenting what I said. I said what I liked, not what is available. There are competitive sports.

"The sports system in Rojava is developing steadily and Teakwando is next to football the most popular sport."

+ Show Spoiler +

Many of these kids lost their parents/relatives in the war and this is a great outlet for them. They don't need to beat themselves into a bloody pulp or watch people do that in order to deal with the meaninglessness of their own lives within capitalist alienation.

again, you wont answer.

Won't answer what? I made a case that you didn't answer, and when I pushed you for a source you came back empty and claimed sources don't matter. So I am right and your "switching gender" crap is not a real world issue. You are just an agitator. Someone with so little imagination has to pass the time somehow.

On May 11 2019 13:13 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 04:54 GoTuNk wrote:   On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote:   On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so? The "OK" symbol has been around forever and is a 4chan joke. https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture. You are simply crazy. Wow! In two short sentences, you've managed to (1) Try to gaslight me (2) Fail to answer a single one of my questions (just as you did in the past, you've ran away from every tough question) (3) Trivialized mass murder -- "it's just trolling" (4) Fall for a photoshopped picture of Obama (5) Post an article that doesn't make the point that you think it's making. It still says that it is a symbol of white supremacy and it doesn't say you can no longer tie it to white supremacist signaling when you can find rhetoric and actions like I obviously did, you dumbass. Just because there's a group of nihilistic edgelords on the internet who think it's funny doesn't mean it has lost all of its original meaning.   On May 11 2019 12:30 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2019 03:30 Loco wrote: + Show Spoiler +   On February 24 2019 17:56 Santafairy wrote: someone you know nothing about, an organization that hasn't done anything wrong (except be conservative which makes them fascists) or they wouldn't be allowed on twitter and college campuses Remember the day where Santafairy and Baal were outraged that someone would dare punching a guy working for this org that "did nothing wrong"? Check out the tweets below. (This is just another scandal, not the first, e.g. their communications manager said Hitler would have been okay if he had stayed in Germany.) Now of course, we know the deal: according to Galactic Brains and right-wingers, these are just ideas, and they fit in the marketplace, ideas are not inherently violent, etc. So the question is, why was this person removed from the org and a letter issued saying that this is unacceptable? I mean this is the same org that brings "hate speech is free speech" signs on campuses. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on that. Was the org wrong to ban this chapter leader, or did he cross a line according to you? When did he cross the line if so? you still can't punch people you don't like Predictable non-response and inability to take responsibility for your errors (or admit whose side you're really on I guess?).

if you want a real response how about don't start with a red fucking herring my man

that guy looks like 18 you want to doxx him too? my brave antifascist warrior

you said the organization was shit before, the organization kicked him out, what's the fucking problem?