Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 138

You can't split hairs on the fact that an ethnostate is by definition exclusionary, which is the exact opposite of what Rojava is like. Everyone who supports their struggle is welcome to come live with them and they will treat them like brothers and sisters. It doesn't matter what other things you believe or what you look like.

their struggle... to create an independent state?

Can't you do even just a minimal amount of research? That was the goal of the PKK when it was Marxist-Leninist, an ideology they abandoned in 1994. Ocalan's readings of Bookchin led him to want to abandon Marxism in favor of libertarian socialism, where the goal became to build an autonomous republic based on a network of face-to-face democratic communal councils.

On June 30 2019 05:49 Loco wrote: Can't you do even just a minimal amount of research? That was the goal of the PKK when it was Marxist-Leninist, an ideology they abandoned in 1994. Ocalan's readings of Bookchin led him to want to abandon Marxism in favor of libertarian socialism, where the goal became to build an autonomous republic based on a network of face-to-face democratic communal councils.

oh an autonomous republic, not an independent state

my apologies

I concede you're correct. not one Kurd wants a state

now let's get back to talking about why it's okay to beat up gay asian men if you warn them first

You really don't get it, do you? The state is a special organization of force for the suppression of some class. The goal of a state as taught by Marx is to defend the ownership of the means of production by the workers by suppressing the class that had exploited them. But, again, according to Marx, the proletariat needs only a state which is withering away, i.e., a state that begins to wither away immediately, and cannot but wither away until communism is reached (a classless, stateless, moneyless society.)

Rojava already doesn't have a state. Their entire revolution didn't need one, because the dominant ideology is anarchist-inspired, not Marxist. There are still some Marxists there supporting for the revolution, but they're not going to want a state when they already have a functioning classless and stateless society.

On June 30 2019 06:15 Loco wrote: You really don't get it, do you? The state is a special organization of force for the suppression of some class. The goal of a state as taught by Marx is to defend the ownership of the means of production by the workers by suppressing the class that had exploited them. But, again, according to Marx, the proletariat needs only a state which is withering away, i.e., a state that begins to wither away immediately, and cannot but wither away until communism is reached (a classless, stateless, moneyless society.) Rojava already doesn't have a state. Their entire revolution didn't need one, because the dominant ideology is anarchist-inspired, not Marxist. There are still some Marxists there supporting for the revolution, but they're not going to want a state when they already have a functioning classless and stateless society.

a state is a country, without a country you're almost nothing, like Rojava, this is a transient situation. "already doesn't have a state" that's "doesn't have a state yet"

Rojava congratulations, it has a democratic council, i.e. government - and what about the other 3 countries in the region where Kurds are stuck? don't want to talk about Kurds in Iraq I bet do you

On June 30 2019 05:00 Loco wrote: I'll tell you what I see in that video. I see a guy who has been whitewashing the crimes and the dangerous organization that is Proud Boys, inciting hatred against the left for years, and especially against Muslims and queer/trans people, who was dumb enough to walk at the center of an antifa protest while emotions were riding high, most likely because he wanted to be assaulted to play martyr and get more funding on his Patreon. He was warned several times over the last year by activists that if he kept doing what he was doing he would get hurt. He was warned again the day before the protest. And so he did get hurt, predictably. How hurt? He got punched in the face by only one person, twice. He got kicked by only one person, twice, on the leg. Now, because context is everything and we are all interested in being as objective as possible, show us an instance of far-right groups who have a leftist surrounded so we can see how they treat him. Let's see how they escalate their violence. I'll bet you that you can't find them doing less damage than this. You can also see that that there are other antifa people coming to protect him when they judged that this isn't necessary. Two people walk with him protecting his back and making space for him to exit the protest. Again, find me some right-wingers who treat their opponents this way. Just find me one instance of this happening. I can find a lot of instances of antifa activists protecting people, including their enemies, once they judge that they got the message (usually pretty damn quickly). The antifa guy who got shot at Berkeley was trying to protect people. The far right inflicts life-threatening damage to people, while leftists intend to inflict corrective damage. That's the difference. Yes, it can get out of hand, and yes, some acts can be denounced. That doesn't make the entire thing bad. This was one single guy in a large group of antifascists, yet you talk about it as if everyone who was there had a part in it, they're all the same, and I'm apparently the same as the guy who punched him even though I wasn't involved, lol. "LOOK WHAT THIS GUY YOU DON'T KNOW DID, THIS IS WHO YOU ARE!! QED!!!!"

oh he was warned... my bad, then its fine, go ahead and beat the living shit out of him.

oh its corrective violence, not bad violence... my bad, keep him hitting with your corrective fists.

You condone it, so yeah you are also guilty, if I said that the gay-bar shooter did nothing wrong I wouldn't be a killer but I would also be a piece of shit of an alike human quality.



The antifa guy who got shot were there in a mob who were setting the place on fire, beating up people, there is a video of how they hit an unconscious guy on the back of the head with a wooden pole, they also hit girls with those poles, so yeah they had it coming

Wow
Trump actually stepped into the border, the balls on him
Just recently War seemed more or less inevitable
And he's stubborn enough to ignore the warmongering aides on Iran.

This is a big thing for re-election also as he'll stand against virtue signalling candidates most likely who tried to paint him as aggressive

On June 30 2019 08:19 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On June 30 2019 05:00 Loco wrote: I'll tell you what I see in that video. I see a guy who has been whitewashing the crimes and the dangerous organization that is Proud Boys, inciting hatred against the left for years, and especially against Muslims and queer/trans people, who was dumb enough to walk at the center of an antifa protest while emotions were riding high, most likely because he wanted to be assaulted to play martyr and get more funding on his Patreon. He was warned several times over the last year by activists that if he kept doing what he was doing he would get hurt. He was warned again the day before the protest. And so he did get hurt, predictably. How hurt? He got punched in the face by only one person, twice. He got kicked by only one person, twice, on the leg. Now, because context is everything and we are all interested in being as objective as possible, show us an instance of far-right groups who have a leftist surrounded so we can see how they treat him. Let's see how they escalate their violence. I'll bet you that you can't find them doing less damage than this. You can also see that that there are other antifa people coming to protect him when they judged that this isn't necessary. Two people walk with him protecting his back and making space for him to exit the protest. Again, find me some right-wingers who treat their opponents this way. Just find me one instance of this happening. I can find a lot of instances of antifa activists protecting people, including their enemies, once they judge that they got the message (usually pretty damn quickly). The antifa guy who got shot at Berkeley was trying to protect people. The far right inflicts life-threatening damage to people, while leftists intend to inflict corrective damage. That's the difference. Yes, it can get out of hand, and yes, some acts can be denounced. That doesn't make the entire thing bad. This was one single guy in a large group of antifascists, yet you talk about it as if everyone who was there had a part in it, they're all the same, and I'm apparently the same as the guy who punched him even though I wasn't involved, lol. "LOOK WHAT THIS GUY YOU DON'T KNOW DID, THIS IS WHO YOU ARE!! QED!!!!" oh he was warned... my bad, then its fine, go ahead and beat the living shit out of him. oh its corrective violence, not bad violence... my bad, keep him hitting with your corrective fists. You condone it, so yeah you are also guilty, if I said that the gay-bar shooter did nothing wrong I wouldn't be a killer but I would also be a piece of shit of an alike human quality. The antifa guy who got shot were there in a mob who were setting the place on fire, beating up people, there is a video of how they hit an unconscious guy on the back of the head with a wooden pole, they also hit girls with those poles, so yeah they had it coming

oh that tweet brings back memories, basically the mayor of auckland (phil goff) didn't like stefan molyneuex's racism so he banned his talk in the city. There was a minority of the left that protested his entry to the country as well.

On June 30 2019 09:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Wow Trump actually stepped into the border, the balls on him Just recently War seemed more or less inevitable And he's stubborn enough to ignore the warmongering aides on Iran. This is a big thing for re-election also as he'll stand against virtue signalling candidates most likely who tried to paint him as aggressive

around 131,000~ dead in the war in yemen which trump has been funding, that's basically all that you need to bring up. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ye...oll-surpass-230000-end-2019-un-report
spent 2 trillion$ upgrading nuclear weapons program.

My personal judgement is that he has no balls at all, he's an aggressor towards weaker nations, the same as his predecessors. There are only very small differences between trump, obama, and hilary clinton on foreign policy.

I never said I condoned punching the dude... Like I said, I think this is what he wanted. What bothers you is that I'm just not outraged about it because I put things into perspective unlike you who follows only right wing media outrage.

Please punch me twice so I can become an internet martyr and get a few more thousand bucks a month for following antifa everywhere and pretending to be a journalist. I'll take that trade off any day.

following antifa everywhere

looks like a fascist enabler to me

why all of a sudden shy to admit to supporting punching him and giving him a brain bleed requiring hospitalization?

On June 30 2019 09:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Wow Trump actually stepped into the border, the balls on him Just recently War seemed more or less inevitable And he's stubborn enough to ignore the warmongering aides on Iran. This is a big thing for re-election also as he'll stand against virtue signalling candidates most likely who tried to paint him as aggressive

He authorized an attack and then called it off... Totally not "ignoring the war mongering". He's ramped up the bombings and the sanctions since Obama, and people are still clueless enough to think he's non interventionist.

On June 30 2019 16:43 Santafairy wrote: following antifa everywhere looks like a fascist enabler to me why all of a sudden shy to admit to supporting punching him and giving him a brain bleed requiring hospitalization?

Fascism enabling is being a pacifist or a disinterested third party during a war between fascists and anti-fascists... like Orwell said, that is "objectively pro-fascist and elementary common sense." Ngo isn't that. He has chosen his side and he is actively working for them as a propagandist. I wouldn't expect you to understand this since it targets you specifically too. You do the same type of thing, except you're not paid for it, and you don't have a significant audience. Just a few months back you supported an organization whose communications director says things like "Hitler did nothing wrong, except chase his dreams outside of Germany."

I'm not shy to say that alt-right propagandists should be met with some degree of corrective violence, but I think it's ambiguous and debatable what should be done to someone like Ngo. I think giving him what he most likely wanted is not good, and I wouldn't have punched him. I'd have protected him after he got punched (but it's completely meaningless to say this, especially to people who have already made up their minds that anyone who supports antifascism is a bad person looking for an excuse to be excessively violent). If he has a brain bleed, it's not from those punches. I can't exactly denounce something for which there is no evidence presented.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/protect-andy-ngo-fund

Raking in $100,000+ in donations on GoFundMe in less than 24 hours, not including his PayPal or his Patreon. Clearly that's not enough to make up for what happened to him, so make sure you guys donate.

Doxxing assault victims, a pretty regular journalistic practice.

On June 30 2019 16:55 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On June 30 2019 09:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Wow Trump actually stepped into the border, the balls on him Just recently War seemed more or less inevitable And he's stubborn enough to ignore the warmongering aides on Iran. This is a big thing for re-election also as he'll stand against virtue signalling candidates most likely who tried to paint him as aggressive He authorized an attack and then called it off... Totally not "ignoring the war mongering". He's ramped up the bombings and the sanctions since Obama, and people are still clueless enough to think he's non interventionist.

Have you see what the aides of his from Republican party are pushing? There'd be war now guaranteed would there be a weaker republican President, their comments and "confirmed" reports of the attack on the tanker and drone were eerily similar to the "WMD" in Iraq propaganda.

That Iran backtrack I can almost guarantee is one of his bullshit tricks he learned in business, same with tariffs on China...

He will intervene and try his best to look good, but definitely seems to be against an open-war.

You guys have to realize things are relative - it's the republicans in power, this should be next Bush war era and he's putting the breaks on the people around him

All I know is that if the USA goes into Iran it will most likely be as bad as Vietnam if not worse for them, but this one could have an impact on the whole planet and it will also help Russia a lot since oil prices will skyrocket

Iran is not Afghanistan or Iraq though