Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 188

On December 19 2019 17:14 NMcNasty wrote: Impeachment was an absolutely necessary step to combat a wholly corrupt and traitorous president. Electoral strategy is just a secondary consideration. I mean lets look back at the original impeachment issue which was Russia collusion. There was a major investigation, a whole lot of lies were uncovered, people went to jail, but there wasn't a smoking gun that clearly tied the president to collusion. But with what we know from the Ukraine hearings, where its completely confirmed that the president went out his way to interfere in the 2020 elections, its utterly preposterous to believe that when aggressively approached by Russia for assistance in the 2016 election that Trump said "no thx, that would be wrong". With the Russia investigation fizzling (fizzling in the sense that a massive spy operation was still uncovered), greedy Trump couldn't keep his hand out of the cookie jar. If Democrats had pussied out and let the Ukraine bribery slide, god knows what schemes Trump would feel free to be carrying out now. Of course yeah, with Republicans controlling the Senate and modern Republicans being the pathetic cowards that they are, Trump easily gets off here. But if Democrats are too scared to even attack Trump on paper they deserve to lose 2020 anyway.

I thought this level of naivety was reserved for pink hat suburban soccer moms lol.

Trump was digging for dirt on Biden's multimillion dollar transfer from Ukraine (and now Latvia), do democrats care about Biden's affairs? no, did the democrats care when Joe Biden bragged about doing exactly the same quid-pro-quo with the Ukranian PM asking him to fire his AG and mentioning that Obama knew?

Trump doesn't give a fuck about the morality of Biden's corruption he is also a corrupt fuck, the democrats don't give a fuck about Trump's misuse of power, they are also corrupt fucks, they are simply dogs attacking each other fighting for power.

The whole "dems good, reps evil" and viceversa just show a childish understanding of the world, you aren't talking politics you are cheering for your retarded sports team, start thinking properly and then come back to the grown-ups table.

On December 19 2019 17:14 NMcNasty wrote: Impeachment was an absolutely necessary step to combat a wholly corrupt and traitorous president. Electoral strategy is just a secondary consideration. I mean lets look back at the original impeachment issue which was Russia collusion. There was a major investigation, a whole lot of lies were uncovered, people went to jail, but there wasn't a smoking gun that clearly tied the president to collusion. But with what we know from the Ukraine hearings, where its completely confirmed that the president went out his way to interfere in the 2020 elections, its utterly preposterous to believe that when aggressively approached by Russia for assistance in the 2016 election that Trump said "no thx, that would be wrong". With the Russia investigation fizzling (fizzling in the sense that a massive spy operation was still uncovered), greedy Trump couldn't keep his hand out of the cookie jar. If Democrats had pussied out and let the Ukraine bribery slide, god knows what schemes Trump would feel free to be carrying out now. Of course yeah, with Republicans controlling the Senate and modern Republicans being the pathetic cowards that they are, Trump easily gets off here. But if Democrats are too scared to even attack Trump on paper they deserve to lose 2020 anyway.

Well Obama, Clinton Bush's people (cause he's a dummy) other Bush have all done the same kind of stuff he got impeached for
Just not in Trump's incompetent public way
I mean I hope you're right and it cleans up politics

But I assume you also agree that this is a partisan thing? The dems were saying the hunt for impeachment starts the moment he got into office.
I'd be shocked if anyone with some sort of intelligence wouldn't see the partisanship behind these processes, and US media for that matter

On December 20 2019 17:56 LemOn[5thF] wrote: But I assume you also agree that this is a partisan thing? The dems were saying the hunt for impeachment starts the moment he got into office. I'd be shocked if anyone with some sort of intelligence wouldn't see the partisanship behind these processes, and US media for that matter

How dare yo say it was partisan... it clearly is a matter between good and evil dont you see? democrats are good, republicans are evil lol

On December 20 2019 17:56 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Well Obama, Clinton Bush's people (cause he's a dummy) other Bush have all done the same kind of stuff he got impeached for Just not in Trump's incompetent public way

Nah in fact Trump was careful with his wording to not make the quid-pro-quo legally obvious and it required a whitle blower to become public, Biden bragged about the quid-pro-quo to the press and directly implicated Obama LOL


https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe...1BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

On December 20 2019 08:12 Baalim wrote: Trump was digging for dirt on Biden's multimillion dollar transfer from Ukraine (and now Latvia), do democrats care about Biden's affairs? no, did the democrats care when Joe Biden bragged about doing exactly the same quid-pro-quo with the Ukranian PM asking him to fire his AG and mentioning that Obama knew?

Predictable, the naive child shtick again. And no I'm not following you down whatever rabbit hole your favorite you-tube news hero is providing for you. Not even checking Snopes, got better ways to spend my time. If I show concrete evidence your whole story is bogus you just cry "FAKE NEWS!", "DEEP STATE!" anyway.

On December 20 2019 17:56 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Well Obama, Clinton Bush's people (cause he's a dummy) other Bush have all done the same kind of stuff he got impeached for

Not really, withholding military aid from a country currently being invaded by a foreign adversary for the purposes of finding dirt on a political rival is truly egregious, orders of magnitude worse than Watergate. Lying us into the invasion of Iraq is possibly worse but without going into conspiracy theory land there's not much else from Clinton era onward.(Noting that horrible foreign policy isn't necessarily a scandal).

But I assume you also agree that this is a partisan thing?

I mean its just objectively a partisan thing because the votes are on party lines. That's not something the democrats have any control over though. They aren't going to coordinate their voting so some members vote nay for the optics and obviously nothing stops Republicans from voting how they want. Look at how the Republican party functions right now. Look at Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, and Rand Paul continue to debase themselves, despite being publicly humiliated by Trump. Nothing about the party unity is remotely healthy there. Its just straight National Geographic chimpanzee style subservience.

On December 20 2019 22:46 Baalim wrote: https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe...1BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

WSJ meh, just barely credible enough for me to look into your garbage

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

On December 21 2019 02:56 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On December 20 2019 17:56 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Well Obama, Clinton Bush's people (cause he's a dummy) other Bush have all done the same kind of stuff he got impeached for Not really, withholding military aid from a country currently being invaded by a foreign adversary for the purposes of finding dirt on a political rival is truly egregious, orders of magnitude worse than Watergate. Lying us into the invasion of Iraq is possibly worse but without going into conspiracy theory land there's not much else from Clinton era onward.(Noting that horrible foreign policy isn't necessarily a scandal).

I don't think you realize why the issues in Ukraine started to begin with. There was an agreement after WW 2 that NATO would not expand beyond a certain point. Well it did, and Ukraine was the next in the list and obviously Russia will never allow that. It's a geopolitical war for decades and the USA knew exactly what they will do in the region if they continue to push. Also Ukraine is not being invaded by a foreign adversary. Crimea is as good as gone now.

There are shittons of horrible things done by US presidents than this case with Trump what the fuck are you talking about... Iraq invasion is POSSIBLY worse ... dude are you fucking retarded?

Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen

While supporting and trading with oppressive regimes like the Saudis, that passively created ISIS. It just a big hypocrisy fest and the Democratst managed to fuck themselves once again. Senators are right to 'not even have hearings' about the impeachement. The Dems were stupid enough to be fishing for Trumps impeachment before he was even elected and they now expect anyone to believe them, what a bunch of clowns.

The rich election finance and corporate media bias and having a non proportional election system interfere with elections much more than Ukrainians do. Not sure why ordinary people should care that much. Note that the Republicans rigged the us elections in 2000 and the public didn't really care that much.

You're just a vanilla prescious flower NMcNasty aren't you

This is standard practice, I mean look at what Biden was bragging about
What Obama was saying when he got live mic'd

The worst thing for Nixon that broke his back (who was an extremely successful politician by the way with landslide wins, and loads of comebacks) were actually the tape transcripts that showed people the backroom dealings and what person Nixon actually is.

Both parties coordinate with the media - e.g. Trump + Billy Bush timing of release, and they obviously put pressure on foreign governments, it's funny how Republicans and Dems get outraged when the other side does what they've done as default

On December 21 2019 12:07 Stroggoz wrote: The rich election finance and corporate media bias and having a non proportional election system interfere with elections much more than Ukrainians do. Not sure why ordinary people should care that much. Note that the Republicans rigged the us elections in 2000 and the public didn't really care that much.

Well one might hope, DNC rigged the primaries against Bernie, it got leaked and it might have been one of the factors that helped.

Yeah, that was a big scandal. The whole lie about wmds in Iraq was a terrible thing, it lead to people supporting the war. But let's consider that kind of moral justification for a second. Iran has actually supported un resolutions for a nuclear free zone in the middle east, but they are always blocked by the us because of Israel's nukes, which allow it to attack other nations. Suppose holding nuclear weapons is a justification for attacking a nation. Then why can't iraq invade America? America not only holds nukes but is the leading nuclear terrorist state, having threatened to use them 25 times since ww2, according to Daniel ellsberg, a former nuclear war planner. One of the worst cases was nixon threatening to use them on Vietnam. Actually that's where the madman theory comes from in international relations. The war on terrorism has killed over a million people btw. This is not a problem specific to us politicians, ordinary Americans still have trouble understanding the massive hypocrisy in this.

On December 21 2019 10:49 Spitfiree wrote: I don't think you realize why the issues in Ukraine started to begin with. There was an agreement after WW 2 that NATO would not expand beyond a certain point. Well it did, and Ukraine was the next in the list and obviously Russia will never allow that. It's a geopolitical war for decades and the USA knew exactly what they will do in the region if they continue to push. Also Ukraine is not being invaded by a foreign adversary. Crimea is as good as gone now.

Really bad stuff here, a lot to unpack. Putin getting in before NATO membership is somehow fair game? Crimea is already conquered, so too late for US military aid? The war in Ukraine is apparently over elsewhere?

There are shittons of horrible things done by US presidents than this case with Trump what the fuck are you talking about... Iraq invasion is POSSIBLY worse ... dude are you fucking retarded?

Try a little harder, I already said bad foreign policy isn't necessarily an impeachable scandal. Congress easily passed war resolution, the WMD bullshit wasn't a tipping point. My bad for saying "lying us into Iraq", its more like "lying about the reasons for invading a country you're invading regardless".

It just a big hypocrisy fest and the Democratst managed to fuck themselves once again.

And even if it was hypocrisy that doesn't make it wrong! Again, I blame youtube and twitter for people being so divorced from the reality politics that they think its some sort of finger wagging contest. Pieces of legislation are voted on yea or nay. So apparently congressman Spitfire would vote nay on articles of impeachment, because "dems do it too!". Just insufferable whataboutism/bothsiderism. I thought we were over that shit.

My bad didn't realize slaughtering innocent people, burning cities, pushing cultural propaganda, policing foreign state on false pretenses is not an impeachable scandal, but playing the standard under-the-table competition butchering game is.

Its lovely how you talk about it being an unfair game but if its someone else doing it other than the USA then its not okay. Stick your head a bit further in the ground, please

On December 21 2019 16:15 Spitfiree wrote: My bad didn't realize slaughtering innocent people, burning cities, pushing cultural propaganda, policing foreign state on false pretenses is not an impeachable scandal, but playing the standard under-the-table competition butchering game is.

Since you're still not following, let me be clear: I absolutely would have supported impeachment for Bush for the Iraq lies.

So overall our voting positions look like this:

McNasty:
Resolution to use force in Iraq: Nay
Articles of impeachment for Bush: Yea
Articles of impeachment for Trump: Yea

Spitfire:
Resolution to use force in Iraq: Nay
Articles of impeachment for Bush: Yea
Articles of impeachment for Trump: Nay

So our relevant views are the same except for your weaker position on election interference.

trumped up charges

Our views are not the same since you re still supporting the democrats, when both parties are equally retarded and literally do the same thing, except Trump is just stupid enough to be blatant. Thats the only difference I've seen in the past 8 years between the 2 parties.

So considering everything, it is very fair to say that the democrats have learnt nothing, they've continued on this condemned path. Biden is supposed to be his primary opposition yet he is exposed in the same thing that Trump is getting impeached for. Can't you see how ridiculous the whole situation is

both sides are trash lol

Merry Christmas comrades & fash!



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