Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 205

On February 28 2020 16:01 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On February 25 2020 03:45 RiKD wrote: So, close yet so far. This fucker wants a "sharing economy" under the framework of capitalism... capitalist realist boomer fuck. But there is a lot of good in the vid. Watch it so we can discuss. I'm dying for a discussion over here.

A sharing economy can only ever be a niche element of an economy imo, there are only so many things people can/want to share. It can be implemented in either a capitalist or a socialist society. I don't see how it would solve our bloated and disasterous agricultural system for example.

The internet of things is not going to lead to a post capitalist society, and it is welcomed by the tech giants because it opens up supply routes to human behavioral surplus, so that human behavior can be shaped and directed towards the ends of advertisors. Google welcomes zero marginal cost software for the same reason advertisors welcome free television.

I caught it (zer0 books debate) when they were finishing up and then answering questions. It wasn't horrible. It's funny I posted on here probably 10 years ago about Rawls and what would people agree on. Given what I know today I can't believe people would actually agree on a dice roll for x existence in a free market society. So many dice rolls would be fucking brutal. Even worse than today's standards. Interesting debate though. I think a lot of privileged people would blindly take the dice roll not realizing what billions of outcomes would be like instead of agreeing to create a society for the public good. I do agree that what is good for the poor is good for the public perhaps not for the bourgeoisie and 1%. Considering that is who holds the power and the dominance it's tough to overcome.

AOC sounds a lot less like a dummy than when she got elected in that interview
Maybe it's not such a bad idea to have people like her and Trump enter office as long as they are kept under check at first
- Ideology aside, they both seemed way over their head and now are getting things done

Trump is getting the following things done:

-steps towards a nuclear arms race, increased spending on nuclear modernization program twice, dropped INF treaty.
-accelerating the race towards environmental collapse, cut funding for EPA twice, is a denier.
-serving the rich as best he can, tax cuts for the rich, new budget is to cut food stamps, job training programs, got rid of the meagre bank regulation put in place by obama. Protecting white collar criminals from justice
-funding the war in yemen (has killed roughly 100,000 people), carried out a terrorist attack against iran, sanctions vs iran (which hurt the people), bombing afghanistan, supports right wing fascists in latin america like bolsanaro.

AOC is better on every single policy than trump imo, and to compare her with trump is beyond ridiculous.

I don't get the lack of seriousness intelligent people have towards climate change, most countries are carrying out mild attempts to mitigate it, but not america. His climate change policy is, imo, the worst political crime in human history, and while other governments are doing something, they certainly arn't doing enough. certainly the current leaders in australia and nz are pretty close to trump level innaction. Are you guys aware of the actual human suffering this is going to cause?

I am aware of the suffering Stroggoz. Luckily, I'll be 65 when the shit really starts hitting the fan and I can move somewhere like Ohio and get away from the coasts but shit is going to be really fucked up regardless. I think it is easy to take the stance as a boomer of oh it's not serious I'll just exploit what I can before I go which is their MO anyway but it's a heinous attitude. As Morin says: we are the children and citizens of the Earth. It's incredibly irresponsible and un-empathetic to just fuck everything up for future generations. If people get their information from say Candace Owens, Fox News, New York Post, Trump, etc. it inherently leads to a lot of misinformation and very serious human suffering.

I mean AOC sounded like a total moron bartender that's there for show
And Trump was a reality star with 0 experience

Now a couple years later
AOC sounds reasonable in that interview and Trump managed to push his agenda after the carousel of job replacements and learning how Washington even works.

My point is maybe you don't have to be a career politician to make an impact, and they are very similar in their lack of qualification for they jobs before their entered office

On February 29 2020 12:39 LemOn[5thF] wrote: I mean AOC sounded like a total moron bartender that's there for show

And you sound like someone's who's just parroting Fox News propaganda.



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ocasio-cortez-resume/

She was lacking basic knowledge making loads of mistakes and goofs
I mean she still did call Bloomberg the president of New York in this one but besides that it seems like she's learning, think that was the only goof she made - rest was normal left wing bias but did sound coherent.

That CV definitely doesn't qualify you to be a congresswoman on paper, much like Trump had no business in being elected president straight up, but they are both getting things done for better or worse

is kinda interesting what people think qualifies you to be a politician. Most US presidents are from extremely wealthy backgrounds and went to ivy league universities, they went from extreme priviledge and worked their way up to even more priviledge. Look at latin america and you see presidents like Dilma Rousseff and Pepe Mujica were dissidents until that were tortured and kept in dungeons for years.

Interestingly, you linked a video by the billionaire investor Ray Dalio a week back. His economics is quite close to AOC and he thinks capitalism ought to be reformed, both are proponents of the heterodox modern monetary theory (MMT), which argues governments should print money to pay for fiscal spending, and that inflation from full employment can be eliminated through higher taxes instead of raising interest rates. I mention this because you probably respect his views a lot but you think AOC is full of 'left wing bias'.

Well you do have a point that when someone's wealthy and has connections and their families are part of the establishment they have it was easier
It's impressive that she could run against a long term incumbent that outspent her 10-1 or something and win.
It's equally as impressive that Trump could win the primaries without pretty much putting on any money himself with the party being against him as well I'd say - he's no Bloomberg and just played the media to give him $2bn of free advertising.

It might be okay if unqualified people (based on experience) get into office if it means the establishment loses it's ground I suppose

On February 29 2020 15:31 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 29 2020 12:39 LemOn[5thF] wrote: I mean AOC sounded like a total moron bartender that's there for show And you sound like someone's who's just parroting Fox News propaganda. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ocasio-cortez-resume/

thinking someone who doesn't know shit sounds like an idiot is fox news propaganda...

what is that picture? so she went to and graduated high school and university. and interned with a murderer, wow such overachiever. wow that's great about MIT, she must be an amazing engineer. i mean, bartender. i mean i have nothing against bartenders but...?

Trump is the goddamn dumbest student I ever had

He managed to bankrupt a casino. Who the fuck does that? Circus circus is still a casino in Vegas for crying out loud.

He would have made more money putting his ~$100 milli inheritance (at the time) into a conservative stock portfolio than his "real estate empire." Give me half a billi now and boom I'm a real estate mogul just clicking buttons.

sorry you can't criticize him until you bankrupt a casino of your own according to this dumb fuck

Lol @ taking an obvious meme so seriously

Oh yeah, owning stuff is a great achievement. Like breathing.

The terms "uneducated bartender" and "moron" were some of Fox News' favorites, so yes, as a matter of fact, he did sound like their propaganda.

it's a "meme" in the sense of being an image macro, not in the sense of being a joke

you posted it with a snopes link (i'm not sure which of the two is more worthles) and obviously take it seriously because you're trying to embarrass lemon with it with scary words like MIT

no i agree owning stuff isn't a great achievement. graduating from university is. or serving as a probably unpaid intern for a democratic senator's immigration office. i wonder what the requirements were. #1 be hispanic. missed the fucking point

"moron" is not some complicated talking point you can only get from watching fox. "uneducated" either, which anyway lemon didn't say. "bartender" is true. again it wouldn't matter if lemon watched fox, the relevant point is whether she's a moron.

i expect you're only defending her because you were classmates at bartending school, which is probably where you learned how to grasp at straws like you're doing now

I don't get the critique over trump for his intelligence or business skills.

none of the policy failure's i listed about trump are intellectual failures.
I don't have much against his business or intellectual skills, or his 'competency' in politics. They are somewhat important but the big failures of his have been moral, and do not have much to do with his intelligence and finance skills. (he obviously knows climate change is real and caused by people)

I'm still sticking with my view that Trump is morally the worst person in history, going off only one of his policies: (total climate denial).

On March 01 2020 17:15 Stroggoz wrote: I don't get the critique over trump for his intelligence or business skills. none of the policy failure's i listed about trump are intellectual failures. I don't have much against his business or intellectual skills, or his 'competency' in politics. They are somewhat important but the big failures of his have been moral, and do not have much to do with his intelligence and finance skills. (he obviously knows climate change is real and caused by people) I'm still sticking with my view that Trump is morally the worst person in history, going off only one of his policies: (total climate denial).

Why do you think that he fakes his opinion on climate change, not saying you're wrong, just curious

On March 01 2020 17:15 Stroggoz wrote: I don't get the critique over trump for his intelligence or business skills. none of the policy failure's i listed about trump are intellectual failures. I don't have much against his business or intellectual skills, or his 'competency' in politics. They are somewhat important but the big failures of his have been moral, and do not have much to do with his intelligence and finance skills. (he obviously knows climate change is real and caused by people) I'm still sticking with my view that Trump is morally the worst person in history, going off only one of his policies: (total climate denial).

his buddies are in the coal and oil industry, of course, he'll deny climate change

On March 01 2020 19:48 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On March 01 2020 17:15 Stroggoz wrote: I don't get the critique over trump for his intelligence or business skills. none of the policy failure's i listed about trump are intellectual failures. I don't have much against his business or intellectual skills, or his 'competency' in politics. They are somewhat important but the big failures of his have been moral, and do not have much to do with his intelligence and finance skills. (he obviously knows climate change is real and caused by people) I'm still sticking with my view that Trump is morally the worst person in history, going off only one of his policies: (total climate denial). Why do you think that he fakes his opinion on climate change, not saying you're wrong, just curious

he built a wall around his golf course to stop sea level rising from flooding it.

Walls work