There are many specific bills in the tax code that could be changed to avoid tax evasion, I don't really get your argument are you claming that the US tax code cannot be improved or worsened at all?
No, I'm simply saying it cannot be perfected. The moment you 'fix' one thing another one pops up, its like making changes in an RTS and "fixing" an overpowered thing, it just takes a bit more time to find the new loopholes. You obviously should try to improve it, however you stated it as if its something that can be perfected which it obviously cannot be. Corporations are paying shitton of money to those people so they can find how to exploit the law to save even more money.
Also implying there will be no state power means there wouldn't be any centralized laws either, since you need an institution to regulate the laws, which would essentially then be the state, you could call it differently, but it won't change the fact that it is a state. I don't get your argument at all, its like going in circles without any hard fundamental supporting it
Dude its a fucking tax code many countries have written pretty solid ones that aren't easy to dodge, the poorly written ones full of loopholes are mostly because its in the interest of people with influence in the writing rather than the difficulty of writing a proper one.
Dont think of absolutes, consider me a libertarian for simplicity, so very small and local state dedicated to very basic functions holding no legislative power that would give advantages to form monopolies. Also theres a lot of ground to make this small government corruption resistant, no career politicians, just 1 term in public office for ANY office, randomly selected between candidates within a certain ammount of votes etc.
How would this be any different than lobbyism? If everything is private and society runs on willing public donations, then those money would technically again be private... I don't understand your claim at all
Lobbying buys the state power, if there is no state power to buy there is nothing to lobby for, you can't lobby to the FDA to stiffle competition to keep selling insuline at $700 a vial if there is no FDA.
This is as good of support as someone stating "I support utopia" .... its impossible to close loopholes since laws are built on words, that are bound to be defined, and since you can't really define everything to have a strict meaning it needs interpretation, loopholes are simply inevitable. You're basically saying you're going to remove abstractness from laws which would be more of a dystopian solution than a positive one... All laws would be forced equally without any circumstances taken into account, that is awful.
There are many specific bills in the tax code that could be changed to avoid tax evasion, I don't really get your argument are you claming that the US tax code cannot be improved or worsened at all?
Which leads to this being contradictive to the first statement, as long as a government receives money by public funding in any other means than taxes its ties with business will not be cut.
What? The government shouldn't recieve any funds beyond taxes, no lobbying, no running businesses, no banking or wallstreet etc.
There are no bills that could prevent profits from migrating to low tax regions or within tax havens. If there were, they couldn't pass. Leviathan is global and it isn't going to cut it its own legs because you've had a nice shower thought.
By saying that the government shouldn't receive funds beyond taxes, you are saying that the public shouldn't be able to see returns on their paid investments. Whether you like it or not the state has funded technological developments and breakthrough products. The entrepreneurs have merely integrated them and privatized the profits. This is the kind of looting I accuse you of promoting so thank you for showing your hand once again.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On June 05 2020 06:52 Loco wrote:
It's profoundly racist to think affirmative action shouldn't exist
It is profoundly retarded to say things like these.
Why please enlighten me with your Stefan Molyneux-inherited talking points instead of lazily throwing around some random ableist insult.
Ableist lol going full SJW.
Ok, heres my argument, read carefully: Giving systematic advantage to people based on their race, gender or any other form of identity to compensate for statistical and/or historical disadvantages can be not only unjust because its impossible to quantify the advantages you had in life so your system will always be unjust and it will also help divide and worsen the relation between these groups driving them further apart instead of bringing them together.
Thinking along those lines doesn't make you, profoundly racist you absolute fucking moron.
It is racist rhetoric whether you realize it or not, in the same way that saying that "the universities have been hijacked by reds" is fascist rhetoric. It's also no surprise that you're making the exact same argument that the well known white supremacist Molyneux makes as I predicted.
It is profoundly aempirical, ahistorical, and at the very least, indirectly racist because it contributes to perpetuating (and compounding on) systemic racism which creates profound problems, as you can see today better than ever if you are paying any attention to anything that's not coming from far-right meme channels. It implies that African Americans are barely marginalized today if at all, so they're not worth focusing on.
Your argument amounts to "if it can't be perfect then it's unjust and attempts to improve things should never be pursued because they can't be perfect. " it only serves the interests of a profoundly racist scheme of things.
It's also impossible to quantify exactly how many dolor units (units of pain) you experience if someone has raped your mother and beheaded her. People have varying levels of sensitivity and resilience and handle pain and stress differently. Does it mean we can't recognized you're hurt or disadvantaged and shouldn't receive compensation if that happened?
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On June 06 2020 04:48 Loco wrote:
There are no bills that could prevent profits from migrating to low tax regions or within tax havens. If there were, they couldn't pass. Leviathan is global and it isn't going to cut it its own legs because you've had a nice shower thought.
By saying that the government shouldn't receive funds beyond taxes, you are saying that the public shouldn't be able to see returns on their paid investments. Whether you like it or not the state has funded technological developments and breakthrough products. The entrepreneurs have merely integrated them and privatized the profits. This is the kind of looting I accuse you of promoting so thank you for showing your hand once again.
You can't stop investments to move to a country with lower tax, but for sure you can tax any money before and after it goes to tax-havens, but indeed its hard to get it done when there is private lobbying.
The state shouldn't invest on anything besides its narrow field, a contractor method works better, perhaps there could be some small exceptions but what I mean is it shouldn't own financial monopolies, currency, telecom, oil etc.
On June 06 2020 04:59 Loco wrote:
It is racist rhetoric whether you realize it or not, in the same way that salling that "the universities have been hijacked by reds" is fascist rhetoric. It's also no surprise that you're making the exact same argument that the well known white supremacist Molyneux makes as I predicted.
It is profoundly aempirical, ahistorical, and at the very least, indirectly racist because it contributes to perpetuating (and compounding on) systemic racism which creates profound problems, as you can see today better than ever if you are paying any attention to anything that's not coming from far-right meme channels. It implies that African Americans are barely marginalized today if at all, so they're not worth focusing on.
Your argument amounts to "if it can't be perfect then it's unjust and attempts to improve things should never be pursued because they can't be perfect. " it only serves the interests of a profoundly racist scheme of things.
It's also impossible to quantify exactly how many dolor units (units of pain) you experience if someone has raped your mother and beheaded her. People have varying levels of sensitivity and resilience and handle pain and stress differently. Does it mean we can't recognized you're hurt or disadvantaged and shouldn't receive compensation if that happened?
Its racist rhetoric to say treating people based on the color of their skin whether you realize it or not, in the same way that sailing "fascism is on the rise" is communist rhetoric. A few posts ago I made left-wing anarchist arguments and now fascist one, what a diverse fellow I am.
My argument isn't that it would be inperfect, its that it would be so much worse, so regarding universities admissions, we lower east-asian SAT scores but raise black ones, but men greatly underperform in education than women, so we lower women SAT too? yeah I'm sure you are not going to have a bomb in your hands with that one buddy lol.
I don't know what you mean with compensate somebody whose mother was raped and beheaded (lol wtf), but raped & beheaded isn't a race or a social grup which is what you propose, too redistribute based on things like color of skin.... the horse-shoe is strong on this one
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hiems United States. Jun 06 2020 16:01. Posts 2979
On June 06 2020 04:48 Loco wrote:
There are no bills that could prevent profits from migrating to low tax regions or within tax havens. If there were, they couldn't pass. Leviathan is global and it isn't going to cut it its own legs because you've had a nice shower thought.
By saying that the government shouldn't receive funds beyond taxes, you are saying that the public shouldn't be able to see returns on their paid investments. Whether you like it or not the state has funded technological developments and breakthrough products. The entrepreneurs have merely integrated them and privatized the profits. This is the kind of looting I accuse you of promoting so thank you for showing your hand once again.
You can't stop investments to move to a country with lower tax, but for sure you can tax any money before and after it goes to tax-havens, but indeed its hard to get it done when there is private lobbying.
The state shouldn't invest on anything besides its narrow field, a contractor method works better, perhaps there could be some small exceptions but what I mean is it shouldn't own financial monopolies, currency, telecom, oil etc.
On June 06 2020 04:59 Loco wrote:
It is racist rhetoric whether you realize it or not, in the same way that salling that "the universities have been hijacked by reds" is fascist rhetoric. It's also no surprise that you're making the exact same argument that the well known white supremacist Molyneux makes as I predicted.
It is profoundly aempirical, ahistorical, and at the very least, indirectly racist because it contributes to perpetuating (and compounding on) systemic racism which creates profound problems, as you can see today better than ever if you are paying any attention to anything that's not coming from far-right meme channels. It implies that African Americans are barely marginalized today if at all, so they're not worth focusing on.
Your argument amounts to "if it can't be perfect then it's unjust and attempts to improve things should never be pursued because they can't be perfect. " it only serves the interests of a profoundly racist scheme of things.
It's also impossible to quantify exactly how many dolor units (units of pain) you experience if someone has raped your mother and beheaded her. People have varying levels of sensitivity and resilience and handle pain and stress differently. Does it mean we can't recognized you're hurt or disadvantaged and shouldn't receive compensation if that happened?
Its racist rhetoric to say treating people based on the color of their skin whether you realize it or not, in the same way that sailing "fascism is on the rise" is communist rhetoric. A few posts ago I made left-wing anarchist arguments and now fascist one, what a diverse fellow I am.
My argument isn't that it would be inperfect, its that it would be so much worse, so regarding universities admissions, we lower east-asian SAT scores but raise black ones, but men greatly underperform in education than women, so we lower women SAT too? yeah I'm sure you are not going to have a bomb in your hands with that one buddy lol.
I don't know what you mean with compensate somebody whose mother was raped and beheaded (lol wtf), but raped & beheaded isn't a race or a social grup which is what you propose, too redistribute based on things like color of skin.... the horse-shoe is strong on this one
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
Funnily enough, the race that does the best in virtually any metric are the jews, so under Loco's anti-racist system he would systematically discriminate against jews the most, where have I heard that before?
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hiems United States. Jun 07 2020 02:46. Posts 2979
On June 05 2020 06:52 Loco wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 04 2020 10:35 hiems wrote:
I just want to add this bit about Riots/Looting. As an Asian/Korean person, this is an important issue for me:
Most of us were too young to remember the LA Riots from the Rodney King incident. I became interested in it after hearing David Choe say a bunch of times "to be honest, after the LA Riots, I didn't really like black people very much for awhile" ... as his parents store was ruined as a result of the riots. It was an interesting take from an interesting guy so I read up on it a bit. Pretty much blacks/other rioters destroyed shit-ton of Korean businesses that had nothing to do with Police brutality. Anyway here are some quotes.
Many Korean Americans in Los Angeles refer to the event as Sa-I-Gu, meaning "four-two-nine" in the Korean language (4.29), in reference to April 29, 1992, which was the day the riots started. Over 2,300 mom-and-pop shops run by Korean business owners were damaged through ransacking and looting during the riots, sustaining close to $400 million in damages.[101]
During the riots, Korean Americans received very little aid or protection from police authorities, due to their low social status and language barriers.[102] Many Koreans rushed to Koreatown after Korean-language radio stations called for volunteers to guard against rioters. Many were armed, with a variety of improvised weapons, handguns, shotguns, and semi-automatic rifles.[103]
David Joo, a manager of the gun store, said, "I want to make it clear that we didn't open fire first. At that time, four police cars were there. Somebody started to shoot at us. The LAPD ran away in half a second. I never saw such a fast escape. I was pretty disappointed." Carl Rhyu, also a participant in the Koreans' armed response, said, "If it was your own business and your own property, would you be willing to trust it to someone else? We are glad the National Guard is here. They're good backup. But when our shops were burning we called the police every five minutes; no response."104] At a shopping center several miles north of Koreatown, Jay Rhee, who said he and others fired five hundred shots into the ground and air, said, "We have lost our faith in the police. Where were you when we needed you?" Koreatown was isolated from South Central Los Angeles, yet despite this, it was the most severely damaged in the riots.[102]
Korean Americans not only faced physical damage to their stores and community surroundings, but they also suffered emotional, psychological, and economic despair. About 2,300 Korean-owned stores in southern California were looted or burned, making up 45 percent of all damages caused by the riot. According to the Asian and Pacific American Counseling and Prevention Center, 730 Koreans were treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, which included symptoms such as insomnia, a sense of helplessness, and muscle pain. In reaction, many Korean Americans worked to create political and social empowerment.[102]
"Korean-Americans and their stores throughout LA's Korea town were hit the hardest by the riots, with an estimated $400 million done in damages. Despite claims that Koreatown had not been intentionally targeted during the riots, by Sunday, over 1,600 Korean-American owned stores had been completely destroyed.
Rioters targeted Korean-American shops in their areas, as there had been considerable tension between the two communities. Such sources as Newsweek and Time suggested that blacks thought Korean-American merchants were "taking money out of their community", that they were racist as they refused to hire blacks, and often treated them without respect. There were cultural and language differences, as some shopowners were immigrants.
Other scholars compare these riots to those in Detroit in the 1920s, when whites rioted against blacks.[citation needed]But instead of African-Americans as victims, the race riots "represent backlash violence in response to recent Latino and Asian immigration into African-American neighborhoods."5]
Social commentator Mike Davis pointed to the growing economic disparity in Los Angeles, caused by corporate restructuring and government deregulation, with inner city residents bearing the brunt of such changes. Such conditions engendered a widespread feeling of frustration and powerlessness in the urban populace. They reacted to the King verdicts with a violent expression of collective public protest.[142][143] To Davis and other writers, the tensions between African-Americans and Korean-Americans had as much to do with the economic competition between the two groups caused by wider market forces as with cultural misunderstandings and Black anger about the killing of Latasha Harlins.[47]
takeaways:
-there is no place for rioting/looting. it is wrong. PERIOD. if you are somehow justifying riots/violence/looting then you are a piece of shit.
-racism against black people by police is real. it happens more often than with other races. I have stated this exists in the past. It is a bad thing and needs to change. however, it is very easy for a certain base of the left to use incidents such as these to oppress communities that are largely uninvolved, such as the Koreans during the LA Riots. They will try to oppress us, whether it is through direct violence/looting, by stealing our hard earned success through socialism, through affirmative action quotas in universities, by minority-only internships as tech firms such as google/facebook that exclude whites and asians, by portraying us negatively in liberal controlled media outlets such as (hollywood movies, netflix, ny times), by indoctrinating our youth in the education system and universities, by trying to erase student loan debt as a method of wealth redistribution, and im sure many many more devious methods.
-Asians tend to split into 2 camps in response to situations like this. According to Edward Park, the 1992 violence stimulated a new wave of political activism among Korean-Americans, but it also split them into two camps.[109][110] The liberals sought to unite with other minorities in Los Angeles to fight against racial oppression and scapegoating. The conservatives emphasized law and order and generally favored the economic and social policies of the Republican Party. The conservatives tended to emphasize the differences between Koreans and other minorities, specifically African Americans. But please make sure you understand. These people DO NOT care about you. Do not be fooled. Do not give in to the evil plans of the leftists/socialists.
Median household income in the United States for Asian Americans is more than twice that of African Americans. It's profoundly racist to think affirmative action shouldn't exist and that your ethnic group is the worst off in the US. But again, it doesn't have to be you or them when there are 3 -- that's right, 3 - billionaires in the US who have more wealth together than 50% of the US population. If you earned the average annual income of a full-time salaried worker in the United States, which was 2018 in $46,800, it would take you over 3,200,000 years of work to get to Jeff Bezos' current net worth. That's 48,000 lifetimes with the current average lifespan in the US. So please don't talk about how America is a meritocracy and keep throwing around this religious Protestant work ethic nonsense.
I'm not great at chess or anything but its possible to have a material advantage and be in a losing position...and worse yet a mate in x situation. This is how I view the Asian situation in America. Yes, we have a high median/mean income. But this really doesnt have all that much do with power/influence rather it has to do with general well being. We might live okay as mentioned because of our high income but the future outlook of that success in under jeopardy as we lack the political power to protect ourselves from oppression similar to the Jews during Nazi Germany. The main (and obvious) reason for this is our lack of population. And while we make up a large % of the new influx of immigrants I don't think its enough to offset the already low population and our low birth rates/high birth rates of other groups. We are also heavily fractured. ex Politically Chinese vs Non-Chinese, A bunch of other east-Asian subgroups that are all entirely different then you have Indians which count in the Asian population number but are obviously way different, etc etc. Even within a single group such as Korean-Americans we are highly fractured between left/right. Because of these factors it's very difficult for Asians to organize a coalition that is large enough for politicians to give a shit about us. Furthermore, it's my personal opinion that these factors will be increasingly harder to overcome in the future and I just don't see a scenario in which we rise above it for a LONG time (think how long it has taken to get to this point from Jim Crow). We are in an incredibly fragile position and I don't see a way out. Basically we have a bunch of undeveloped pieces, bad pawn structure, exposed King, etc.
So, why would this info make you take the side of Law & Order? The police is a fundamentally racist institution that will defend the ruling class above the interests of anyone else, no matter what. The main takeaway is not to trust authority, period. It's to learn to depend on yourself and your community to take care of your own affairs. This is what the "evil" socialists of the anarchist tradition and Marxist tradition believe.'
Again you are making things up. Where did I say anything about taking the side of Law & Order? I'm not taking anyone's side per-say on that...There are bad cops. Sometimes, yes Blacks do commit more crimes. Floyd shouldn't have died the way he died as many others. Cops shouldn't plant drugs, etc. Also thinking there shouldn't be riots/looting is not "taking the side of the cops." Cops messed up. So did the people by Rioting/Looting. The only SIDE im taking here is highlighting the incredibly disproportionate coverage that racism against blacks get compared to racism against Asians. Also taking the side on the fact that the George Floyd tragedy shouldn't be used as a launching point/rallying cry for more and more socialist programs(let alone looting/rioting) I guess im also taking sides on your idiotic response/logic to everything I mentioned in the prior post too and how you are actually the racist in this thread.
Playing oppression olympics and blaming other minorities for the oppression of another minority group is misguided. If you oppose racism you have to oppose it all the way. Not going to the root of the problem, which is hierarchy and imposed scarcity under capitalism, is necessarily going to make you take the wrong turn and blame other minority groups or be paranoid that they are "out to get you".
I'm not playing oppression olympics wtf are you talking about. Did you know about the Korea-Town incident during the LA Riots? Did everyone on this thread know about it? I doubt it. Don't you think it's a relevant story to current events right now? And not only is it "relevant" but its a profound story that its pretty incredible people do not talk more about. Don't you think that is strange? "Im trying to play oppression olympics" by bringing this up? Are you kidding me? So are black people playing oppression Olympics by tweeting about George Floyd? Highlighting the fact that Koreans were targeted Krsytalnacht style during the LA Riots (a fact probably not known to many on this forum as we were too young at the time) its not exactly bringing up some "petty item" for playing the race card nor is it looking to "blame other minority groups "out to get me". Its a major major event. It's not some lone woman getting attacked on the subway. It's a mass of one race of ppl targeting an entire ethnic neighborhood out of some hatred for them at the time.
Your brain somehow didn't register some key parts of the quoted Wikipedia article. Namely, that police ignored the plight of the Korean-Americans:
And your brain somehow ignored everything except the part of the police. Your brain didn't express an ounce of empathy for the livelihoods of the Korean-Americans during the LA riots who were absolutely innocent victims in this example. That event should never have happened period. Not a single mention "wow that sux" "wow I didnt know that happened" "wow thats a big deal". 0 fucks given. nice.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
On June 06 2020 04:48 Loco wrote:
There are no bills that could prevent profits from migrating to low tax regions or within tax havens. If there were, they couldn't pass. Leviathan is global and it isn't going to cut it its own legs because you've had a nice shower thought.
By saying that the government shouldn't receive funds beyond taxes, you are saying that the public shouldn't be able to see returns on their paid investments. Whether you like it or not the state has funded technological developments and breakthrough products. The entrepreneurs have merely integrated them and privatized the profits. This is the kind of looting I accuse you of promoting so thank you for showing your hand once again.
You can't stop investments to move to a country with lower tax, but for sure you can tax any money before and after it goes to tax-havens, but indeed its hard to get it done when there is private lobbying.
The state shouldn't invest on anything besides its narrow field, a contractor method works better, perhaps there could be some small exceptions but what I mean is it shouldn't own financial monopolies, currency, telecom, oil etc.
Its racist rhetoric to say treating people based on the color of their skin whether you realize it or not, in the same way that sailing "fascism is on the rise" is communist rhetoric. A few posts ago I made left-wing anarchist arguments and now fascist one, what a diverse fellow I am.
My argument isn't that it would be inperfect, its that it would be so much worse, so regarding universities admissions, we lower east-asian SAT scores but raise black ones, but men greatly underperform in education than women, so we lower women SAT too? yeah I'm sure you are not going to have a bomb in your hands with that one buddy lol.
I don't know what you mean with compensate somebody whose mother was raped and beheaded (lol wtf), but raped & beheaded isn't a race or a social grup which is what you propose, too redistribute based on things like color of skin.... the horse-shoe is strong on this one
"Fascism is on the rise" is an empirical statement, it has nothing to do with "communist rhetoric" unless you can prove that fascism isn't on the rise, and communists benefit by lying about it (which you can't).
The fact that you use this anti-black and brown people rhetoric about equality of opportunity and don't even bring up legacy systems is pretty strong evidence that you don't actually care about having a just system, you are just parroting right-wing talking points.
Affirmative action as it is normally applied is not reverse discrimination -- it is pretty much a non-issue; Asian Americans are not locked out of getting a great education, there are many colleges that don't even take race into account already, so there's really no excuse for making this into a significant problem.
The only people who seem to care so much about this are brainwashed conservatives and those who have been made to think they must get into Stanford or Harvard and if they don't it means some brown or black person "stole" their spot, like there's some strict quota system in place. That's not how it works and I don't want to waste my time debating this with people who have proven over the years to not adjust their views based on facts and data. I'll save some of my time and sanity and leave this here for those who want to have a laugh and/or learn what the policy actually tries to do and what the actual data says:
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
The only things that can bring positive change are going to be things that threaten to destabilize the system. Power doesn't recede from moral condemnations alone. Riots and looting--the threat of violence in general-- have always been strategically important in that regard. They are not everything, but they cannot be discounted.
It's easy to condemn rage and violence towards an unjust system after you've come home from your nice paying job. You can be upset that Netflix doesn't have enough Asian American representation and whatever else that is all valid but pales in comparison with people who are suffering enormously because of a long history of extreme discrimination and police violence, add on top of it the pandemic that has led to nearly 45 million of Americans being unemployed. You can't say that you understand the people who are in those positions and that you know for a fact that you would behave differently in their shoes. You're not being an ally by saying the things you're saying.
Your biggest problem is that you spend all of your time looking at the symptoms instead of the causes, and that is what most people do as well, because that is what our education system, technology and mass media shape people to do. That is how you pit people against each other and make them unable to see the big picture. Yes, discrimination against asians is bad. I have no interest arguing this with you, and right now is absolutely not the time to be making your case. Sometimes you have to read the room. It is absolutely oppression olympics when every time you talk about discrimination you bring it back to your group being more oppressed than others and you refuse to hear (and let alone work) with others.
You have barely even begun to undo your own racial prejudices. Just a few weeks ago you were arguing that black and brown people "deserved" their lower social status because they are less intelligent and their cultures are backwards. Don't make absurd demands from others when you are not willing to do a minimum amount of work on yourself and understand the history of other oppressed peoples in the first place. Clean your house, bucko!
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
The only things that can bring positive change are going to be things that threaten to destabilize the system. Power doesn't recede from moral condemnations alone. Riots and looting--the threat of violence in general-- have always been strategically important in that regard. They are not everything, but they cannot be discounted.
It's easy to condemn rage and violence towards an unjust system after you've come home from your nice paying job. You can be upset that Netflix doesn't have enough Asian American representation and whatever else that is all valid but pales in comparison with people who are suffering enormously because of a long history of extreme discrimination and police violence, add on top of it the pandemic that has led to nearly 45 million of Americans being unemployed. You can't say that you understand the people who are in those positions and that you know for a fact that you would behave differently in their shoes. You're not being an ally by saying the things you're saying.
Your biggest problem is that you spend all of your time looking at the symptoms instead of the causes, and that is what most people do as well, because that is what our education system, technology and mass media shape people to do. That is how you pit people against each other and make them unable to see the big picture. Yes, discrimination against asians is bad. I have no interest arguing this with you, and right now is absolutely not the time to be making your case. Sometimes you have to read the room. It is absolutely oppression olympics when every time you talk about discrimination you bring it back to your group being more oppressed than others and you refuse to hear (and let alone work) with others.
You have barely even begun to undo your own racial prejudices. Just a few weeks ago you were arguing that black and brown people "deserved" their lower social status because they are less intelligent and their cultures are backwards. Don't make absurd demands from others when you are not willing to do a minimum amount of work on yourself and understand the history of other oppressed peoples in the first place. Clean your house, bucko!
For the record most of the reason I even responded to your dumb hikkikomori post was because I wanted to hurry up and post this meme lol.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
Last edit: 07/06/2020 11:30
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hiems United States. Jun 07 2020 10:25. Posts 2979
You have barely even begun to undo your own racial prejudices. Just a few weeks ago you were arguing that black and brown people "deserved" their lower social status because they are less intelligent and their cultures are backwards. Don't make absurd demands from others when you are not willing to do a minimum amount of work on yourself and understand the history of other oppressed peoples in the first place. Clean your house, bucko!
look I told you on discord many many times. Please stop making things up. If you are going to recount events by using non-exact quotes, you really have to do a very good job recreating what was said, etc.
and right now is absolutely not the time to be making your case. Sometimes you have to read the room.
-Yes I read the room and I see stupid LoCo who is a hikkikomori racist. Furthermore I brought it forward as an example that looting/rioting is wrong period as you were supporting the rioters (ridiculous). It's a clear example of how Riots are a terrible thing to do and affects the lives of those that are damaged in them.
The only things that can bring positive change are going to be things that threaten to destabilize the system. Power doesn't recede from moral condemnations alone. Riots and looting--the threat of violence in general-- have always been strategically important in that regard. They are not everything, but they cannot be discounted.
-so your saying the looting against koreans during the LA riots were justified? Are you fucking kidding me?
It's easy to condemn rage and violence towards an unjust system after you've come home from your nice paying job. You can be upset that Netflix doesn't have enough Asian American representation and whatever else that is all valid but pales in comparison with people who are suffering enormously because of a long history of extreme discrimination and police violence, add on top of it the pandemic that has led to nearly 45 million of Americans being unemployed. You can't say that you understand the people who are in those positions and that you know for a fact that you would behave differently in their shoes. You're not being an ally by saying the things you're saying.
-Fact or Fiction : You can have a losing position in Chess with a material advantage. Do you not know how to READ the things I write.
edit: rofl @ that stupid video.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
You are not saying that some riots have bad consequences, you are saying that riots and looting are things that are fundamentally bad and should always be off the table. While you think that this is the progressive position to hold, you clearly don't understand what that means. The implication of this position is that the 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have occurred. It means that you think that gay people shouldn't have taken part in the Stonewall riots in order to gain equality under the law.
But even more than that, you are saying that rebelling with violence against an unjust and violent system is unjustifiable. So black people should still be slaves. (I mean they are still slaves, look at prison labor-- something you couldn't give less of a shit about-- but I mean chattel slavery). You are saying: fuck people who want something vital to their existence now and who are willing to take the first steps towards getting it because I've got mine already. You just don't have the courage to openly say it.
The American Revolution was won with violence. The French Revolution was won with violence. The Haitian Revolution was won with violence. The Civil War was won with violence. A revolution in today’s terms would mean that these nationwide rebellions lead to black people being able to access and exercise the fullness of their freedom and humanity. Revolutions can be started with riots and looting. But you want to deny them that. You want them to remain helpless victims of a system that hates them. You want them to complain ineffectively just like you do.
You keep repeating the same fallacy over and over again. "Loco, Riots had bad consequences here, therefore you support hurting people who did nothing wrong." That's not how it works. I support the methods, not the individual actors who do something that I wouldn't do. You know that white people in Chicago rioted and destroyed black people’s property practically once a year in the late 1940s and 1950s in order to drive out black families who wanted to move into white neighborhoods? Does that mean that I supported white people doing those things too?
No, it doesn't. There's a journalist who recounts his interaction with a black man during the 1992 riots. They met on the street in front of this man's record store which was on fire. The black man said to the journalist, " Shit, that's my store right there. I hope something good comes out of this." Now that's a man who was aware of his history. Someone who, even though he was personally affected, realized how illogical it would be to condemn the people and the methods that must sometimes be used and which unfortunately create collateral damage. Someone who understood the real problem: systemic violence, not violent individuals. No one wishes for that to happen. But violence compels a response, and that response, when it explodes, is going to be messy. But that is the space within which change can happen.
When you've already got yours, and you're a selfish cunt, of course you don't want change, and that's why you condemn these people. Don't hide under some false veneer of empathy and concern for them and tell them how they should fight their fight. People can and should defend their small businesses to avoid this, but ultimately, everyone has a right to a dignified life, not just business owners. I know that you don't agree with that, and that you are very tribal, and while it won't cause me any pleasure in the future if you are on the receiving end of violence, you won't see me shedding a tear for you since you refused to clean your house.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
You must be Ben Shapiro, cause the usage of random stats you do is complete dogshit
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hiems United States. Jun 07 2020 22:38. Posts 2979
On June 07 2020 11:19 Loco wrote:
You are not saying that some riots have bad consequences, you are saying that riots and looting are things that are fundamentally bad and should always be off the table. While you think that this is the progressive position to hold, you clearly don't understand what that means. The implication of this position is that the 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have occurred. It means that you think that gay people shouldn't have taken part in the Stonewall riots in order to gain equality under the law.
But even more than that, you are saying that rebelling with violence against an unjust and violent system is unjustifiable. So black people should still be slaves. (I mean they are still slaves, look at prison labor-- something you couldn't give less of a shit about-- but I mean chattel slavery). You are saying: fuck people who want something vital to their existence now and who are willing to take the first steps towards getting it because I've got mine already. You just don't have the courage to openly say it.
The American Revolution was won with violence. The French Revolution was won with violence. The Haitian Revolution was won with violence. The Civil War was won with violence. A revolution in today’s terms would mean that these nationwide rebellions lead to black people being able to access and exercise the fullness of their freedom and humanity. Revolutions can be started with riots and looting. But you want to deny them that. You want them to remain helpless victims of a system that hates them. You want them to complain ineffectively just like you do.
You keep repeating the same fallacy over and over again. "Loco, Riots had bad consequences here, therefore you support hurting people who did nothing wrong." That's not how it works. I support the methods, not the individual actors who do something that I wouldn't do. You know that white people in Chicago rioted and destroyed black people’s property practically once a year in the late 1940s and 1950s in order to drive out black families who wanted to move into white neighborhoods? Does that mean that I supported white people doing those things too?
No, it doesn't. There's a journalist who recounts his interaction with a black man during the 1992 riots. They met on the street in front of this man's record store which was on fire. The black man said to the journalist, " Shit, that's my store right there. I hope something good comes out of this." Now that's a man who was aware of his history. Someone who, even though he was personally affected, realized how illogical it would be to condemn the people and the methods that must sometimes be used and which unfortunately create collateral damage. Someone who understood the real problem: systemic violence, not violent individuals. No one wishes for that to happen. But violence compels a response, and that response, when it explodes, is going to be messy. But that is the space within which change can happen.
When you've already got yours, and you're a selfish cunt, of course you don't want change, and that's why you condemn these people. Don't hide under some false veneer of empathy and concern for them and tell them how they should fight their fight. People can and should defend their small businesses to avoid this, but ultimately, everyone has a right to a dignified life, not just business owners. I know that you don't agree with that, and that you are very tribal, and while it won't cause me any pleasure in the future if you are on the receiving end of violence, you won't see me shedding a tear for you since you refused to clean your house.
lol look I was debating whether or not to argue with you but I really have no interest in trying to work with your hikkikomori logic. Like I said before only reason I wrote anything was for you to hurry up and respond so I can post that meme. I had this one laying around. I'm too lazy to make any other meme right now though.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
On June 07 2020 21:03 VanDerMeyde wrote:
2019:
- 1004 killed by police in USA
- In 802 of those cases they registered the colour of the person.
- 371 = white
- 236 = black
Like Spitfire said, one area of statistics fails to explain a number of things. Statistics have to be combined with a certain context for us to understand them (and usually other statistics).
Here you can just combine this data with the actual rate of fatal shootings among the different races. Already a completely different picture emerges.
The place where you got the statistics from probably selectively left out the following statement for those same stats from the original source: " in 2019 this figure increased to 1,004. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020."
Similarly, there is 40% of the prison population that is made up of black men, even though they are only about 6.5% of the population.
If this is confusing for you, we can create a scenario that will be more helpful for you. Let's say hypothetically that in your city in Norway there were a total of 100 black people in 2019. Now fast forward to 2020 and all 100 black people have been killed by cops. But also, 300 white people were killed by cops during that year. White people account for 99% of the population in this example. Do you think this means they were more discriminated against than black people?
So when people say "black lives matter", what they mean is "black lives matter too". They're not saying white lives don't matter; just that they are more discriminated against (duh). Saying "white lives matter" while being aware of this amounts to overt racism.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
That information is also incomplete because you need to take into account police acounters / death by police, if a group has more encounters with the police it would be expected to be shot by police more often and it wouldn't neccesarely imply a police more eager to shoot them but a police more likely to engage with them. That been said I think there are other undisputable evidence of prejudice like prison sentences being longer, however that brings up to play other interesting factors like men recieving longer sentences than women in a much more drastic way than between any race disparity.
Loco, going back on your authoritarian positions, you say there is no law about pronouns but you fail to mention your position if there were one, lets say Canada passes a bill that would classify deliberately misgendering somebody a crime, punishable by jail or fines, would you oppose this bill? or you think people should be free to misgender people if they want?
Do you oppose CountDankula facing legal repercussions because he posted the nazi-pug joke?
What a waste of 20 minutes... I didn't mention quotas on affirmative action I said discriminate in favor of a race means you discriminate against other ones, also I mentioned the big academic success between men and women, do you Universities administration take that into account and favor men over women in applications? yes/no why?
PS: still waiting for the dank meme twitter account, those two you posted were pretty mediocre and a big fan of political-compass memes.
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104] At a shopping center several miles north of Koreatown, Jay Rhee, who said he and others fired five hundred shots into the ground and air, said, "We have lost our faith in the police. Where were you when we needed you?" Koreatown was isolated from South Central Los Angeles, yet despite this, it was the most severely damaged in the riots.[102]
