Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 228

While there is no reason for both points to not be valid, there is a difference between the purpose of monuments and Hollywood. Hollywood is an entertainment industry and shouldn't be taken seriously. Obviously, in practice thats not how it works and I doubt anyone would disagree with you that Asians are being discriminated upon, that would be silly.

Anyway, the main reason monuments of people are built is to pay respects to them and glorify their achievements, there is no entertainment purpose whatsoever there. They are also much more long-lasting and fundamentally strong in the way they're influencing society as generally a monument of someone would mean that same person would be taught as a virtue to kids in school.

Also, no idea how you were left with the impression everyone here is a racist towards Asians. If one would cherry-pick the same way you do, then I can call everyone that uses the term 'Asians' a racist, as the three major cultures in Asia - Indian, Japanese and Chinese have very little to do with each other yet we generalize them (not even touching on the rest of the countries there e.g. Philippines have even less to do with any of the three mentioned before) - conversations like that are simply unproductive and petty

hiems, I called you an idiot because you said I was a racist because I think black people are more oppressed than asians are (simple test for me would be, would I rather be asian in the US or black in the US? For me I'd 100% go with being asian), and then I stopped talking to you because you thought saying stuff like 'hahahaha liquid`drone's wife has a huge pussy LOLLLLL' was a sensible way of starting a conversation. I really don't see any point in engaging with you.

On June 12 2020 11:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: hiems, I called you an idiot because you said I was a racist because I think black people are more oppressed than asians are (simple test for me would be, would I rather be asian in the US or black in the US? For me I'd 100% go with being asian), and then I stopped talking to you because you thought saying stuff like 'hahahaha liquid`drone's wife has a huge pussy LOLLLLL' was a sensible way of starting a conversation. I really don't see any point in engaging with you.

I didn't say your wife has a huge pussy. I called her a BIG CLIT.

However, I said that after you just laughed in my face, calling me an idiot, and making fun of me by saying "im basically just mad because I can't get dates" and stopped talking to me. My description of your wife's vagina did not occur before this happened. Way to just change the story.

Also your argument that you would rather be Black than Asian is irrelevant, as it does not have anything to do with whether you are racist against Asian people or not // whether you are oppressing Asian people or not // whether Asian people face massive discrimination or not. If you thought the premise of "most discriminated" was incorrect, that is your opinion. But that does not mean we are not discriminated against heavily (which your views contribute to) and does not constitute a reason to laugh in my face, call me an idiot, and say something racist to me.

On June 12 2020 11:29 Spitfiree wrote: While there is no reason for both points to not be valid, there is a difference between the purpose of monuments and Hollywood. Hollywood is an entertainment industry and shouldn't be taken seriously. Obviously, in practice thats not how it works and I doubt anyone would disagree with you that Asians are being discriminated upon, that would be silly. Anyway, the main reason monuments of people are built is to pay respects to them and glorify their achievements, there is no entertainment purpose whatsoever there. They are also much more long-lasting and fundamentally strong in the way they're influencing society as generally a monument of someone would mean that same person would be taught as a virtue to kids in school. Also, no idea how you were left with the impression everyone here is a racist towards Asians. If one would cherry-pick the same way you do, then I can call everyone that uses the term 'Asians' a racist, as the three major cultures in Asia - Indian, Japanese and Chinese have very little to do with each other yet we generalize them (not even touching on the rest of the countries there e.g. Philippines have even less to do with any of the three mentioned before) - conversations like that are simply unproductive and petty

Did you not look at the visual aid I provided for you?

No one cares about a $20 dollar bill. It is a very ineffective propaganda mechanism. Whereas Hollywood is highly effective. I don't understand "Hollywood shouldn't be taken seriously." What kind of stupid idea is that? This is exactly the opposite of what you should do. Propaganda is most effective when it seamlessly hides into the background without detection. Propoganda is also most effective when targeted at populations such as children, because you can indoctrinate them from an early age. Are you going to tell children not the "take Hollywood too seriously?" Are you going to explain to kids and their world around them that they should filter out propaganda? What??

Seriously making the case that some stupid Churchill monument is more important than Leftist Hollywood brainwashing people has got to be one of the stupidest argument you have ever made in a long list of incredibly stupid arguments.

Loco,Stroggoz,LiquidDrone,Spitfiree playing a big-ol-game of woke-intellectual circle jerk in this thread.

Your thought process is so random it's kind of fun to follow.

You're not the first person to realize Hollywood is spreading propaganda. No one in their right mind would think its "into the background without detection" and the funny part is you are falling a victim to the same argument you're trying to make and don't even realize it. That's one of the main reasons movie ratings exist too, anyway, as usual, you re following anecdotal evidence to land on a random conclusion in order to reach self-validation.

On June 12 2020 13:06 Spitfiree wrote: Your thought process is so random it's kind of fun to follow. You're not the first person to realize Hollywood is spreading propaganda. No one in their right mind would think its "into the background without detection" and the funny part is you are falling a victim to the same argument you're trying to make and don't even realize it. That's one of the main reasons movie ratings exist too, anyway, as usual, you re following anecdotal evidence to land on a random conclusion in order to reach self-validation.

Ok I'll make it very simple for you to understand.

Which is a more effective propaganda mechanism? :

1.
a. Churchill Statue.
b. Hollywood

2.
a. $20 Bill
b. Hollywood.

Have you ever considered the fact that Hollywood would mostly build on figures that were already idolized? Hollywood is just an instrument to deepen the propaganda, there hasn't been an original idea there... probably ever ... apart from some directors that do amazing movies with intent to create art and meaning rather than make the machine go bRRRRRR. Its much more efficient to destroy the foundations of the house to make it collapse rather than start blowing it down from the roof.

Anyway your whole point is that Asians are possibly more oppressed than Blacks, which is obviously not true(in fact historically the UK and the USA have contributed to a lot of Asian countries, especially Japan... while being oppressors of course, but the Africans haven't received shit from the US and they're still being oppressed to this day) , but doesn't make either morally right. Even more so the very pillar you're trying to defend - Hollywood has been the worst. They've been trying to forcefully glorify the African ethnicity by meaningless protests and meaningless casts, while completely ignoring the actual problems of the black community, thats is the biggest irony of them all. The Black community don't need Wakanda, they need actual support in real life.

Is there racism towards Asians?
- Literally, no one is denying that.

^I don't understand why this guy just won't answer the question lol.

Holywood is possibly the biggest propaganda agency in the world, just out of sheer quantity, imo. Almost everyone in every country watches holywood movies.

I don't consider holywood left-wing though, there's a book called 'national security cinema', which studies how film/tv are created in holywood when it touches on subjects like war. Essentially holywood directors/writers will go get consultation at the department of defense office, or CIA, for things like accuracy on military subjects. And the military will revise a script and give it back to them. That movie zero dark thirty that covers the assassination of Bin Laden had quite a lot of lies in it. For example the main character is showed distant from the torture scenes, in real life her nickname was "the queen of torture". The torture scenes were also linked towards gathering info on bin laden, when that didn't happen. That's the CIA's way of telling us that torture is justified. There's quite a few other cases studies in the book. It's not a very rigorous study but it's informative.

America's foreign policy towards asia has been based on extreme racism, The bombing of Japan, Tokyo and nuclear. And then wars in indochina, the coup in Indonesia, bombing korea, and supporting dictators in all of these countries, and ofc the invasion of phillipines 120 years ago, where im not quite sure they knew phillipino's were humans or not. Probably the worst i ever read was their nuclear war policy though. The cold war nuclear plan in the 1960's was to bomb all the major cities in China in the event of a russian attack. Note how weak of a country China was back then, it was not a threat in anyway. One admiral explained the logic behind this to daniel ellsberg when he was interviewing him, "It doesn't make sense to not attack china in the case of nuclear war, why let a communist country go free with that opportunity'. By RAND corporation estimates, 300million chinese would die in the attack.

Re Baal: I'm not refering to 'mexican culture', that's too broad. I don't really like using terms such as 'western culture', or 'X culture' where X is a nation. There are always competing interests and many cultures in every country ofc. I don't really know the history behind Cortez well so i can't really comment on that. Look at privitization of the media around the world, that's one way people have lost control of cultural production, and those that own the media get to write history for them. So when i say 'taking control over ones culture', i necessarily mean people having a role in deciding which statues to put up, ect.

On June 12 2020 12:07 hiems wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2020 11:29 Spitfiree wrote: While there is no reason for both points to not be valid, there is a difference between the purpose of monuments and Hollywood. Hollywood is an entertainment industry and shouldn't be taken seriously. Obviously, in practice thats not how it works and I doubt anyone would disagree with you that Asians are being discriminated upon, that would be silly. Anyway, the main reason monuments of people are built is to pay respects to them and glorify their achievements, there is no entertainment purpose whatsoever there. They are also much more long-lasting and fundamentally strong in the way they're influencing society as generally a monument of someone would mean that same person would be taught as a virtue to kids in school. Also, no idea how you were left with the impression everyone here is a racist towards Asians. If one would cherry-pick the same way you do, then I can call everyone that uses the term 'Asians' a racist, as the three major cultures in Asia - Indian, Japanese and Chinese have very little to do with each other yet we generalize them (not even touching on the rest of the countries there e.g. Philippines have even less to do with any of the three mentioned before) - conversations like that are simply unproductive and petty Did you not look at the visual aid I provided for you? No one cares about a $20 dollar bill. It is a very ineffective propaganda mechanism. Whereas Hollywood is highly effective. I don't understand "Hollywood shouldn't be taken seriously." What kind of stupid idea is that? This is exactly the opposite of what you should do. Propaganda is most effective when it seamlessly hides into the background without detection. Propoganda is also most effective when targeted at populations such as children, because you can indoctrinate them from an early age. Are you going to tell children not the "take Hollywood too seriously?" Are you going to explain to kids and their world around them that they should filter out propaganda? What?? Seriously making the case that some stupid Churchill monument is more important than Leftist Hollywood brainwashing people has got to be one of the stupidest argument you have ever made in a long list of incredibly stupid arguments. Loco,Stroggoz,LiquidDrone,Spitfiree playing a big-ol-game of woke-intellectual circle jerk in this thread.

First of all, Hollywood isn't "leftist". It isn't even left-leaning. It's centrist. The co-optation of identity politics by capitalist interests is a liberal, i.e. centrist position in 2020. It is not done for moral reasons; it is done for financial reasons. The same reason why elite universities and corporations focus on diversity programs: it's because it has been shown in social studies that diversity is good for business. What is good for business is a center position; it means that nothing fundamentally changes about the structures of the society.

Secondly, while it's of course true that Asian American representation in Hollywood is scarce, no one is denying that, but it doesn't prove any of the other points that you make following from that. And with your example of Marvel, you miss two important things. The first one being that Marvel has been laying out the narrative for its introduction of an Asian American super hero who will has his own movie in 2021. They have had a lot of Asian superheroes in their comics too.



Second part of that is, which other identity group isn't represented in that poster you linked? You focus on Asian Americans, but there are no trans people, no gay people, no disabled people in there either. But you don't give a fuck about them. In fact, you actively discriminate against them. You photoshop me on the pink power ranger because "it's gay" and on someone in a wheelchair because it makes me look weak and pathetic in your brainwashed mind; you constantly dehumanized RiKD because of his psychological health problems, etc. I bet if you go shopping and all of the parking spots are taken except the ones for disabled people, you get upset at the disabled people for having their own parking spots, and you think affirmative action for them is unfair to you and they haven't deserved it and you probably go on and take the spot.

The main reason why you even have the pretense of an interest in oppression is because of your failed romantic life. And the main reason why it has been that way is not because women treat you unfairly due to Hollywood brainwashing. It's because of your shitty personality, your hypocrisy and sense of self-entitlement and the way that you default back to abusive behavior whenever you are upset. People from marginalized groups are not doomed to be forever alone; shitty people who won't take responsibility for their shittiness, are.

On June 12 2020 11:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: I think black people are more oppressed than asians are (simple test for me would be, would I rather be asian in the US or black in the US? For me I'd 100% go with being asian)

I dunno fam, I'd take the knee on the neck instead of the small pee-pee

Thats why I think we should stop pointing out if we mean economically left/right or not because trans rights have absolutely nothing to do with your position regarding the markets, Hollywood is definitelly proggressive, but economically centrist.

On June 13 2020 00:13 Stroggoz wrote: Re Baal: I'm not refering to 'mexican culture', that's too broad. I don't really like using terms such as 'western culture', or 'X culture' where X is a nation. There are always competing interests and many cultures in every country ofc. I don't really know the history behind Cortez well so i can't really comment on that. Look at privitization of the media around the world, that's one way people have lost control of cultural production, and those that own the media get to write history for them. So when i say 'taking control over ones culture', i necessarily mean people having a role in deciding which statues to put up, ect.

state controlled media means even less control, and yes I am all for people deciding what statues to put up, which is why I'm engaging in this conversation and I think people wanting to take these statues down are retarded in desperate need to seek victimhoods in events centuries ago, I'm not saying the statue should be kept because the state put it there and it should be obeyed and people should have no say over it.

BTW if anyone doesn't know in Seattle a few blocks were claimed by anarchist and the mayor allowed it and withdrew all police and not its called CHAZ (capital hill autonomous zone) and its a great source of amusement.

They are attempting to grow their own stuff, so they built a segregated farm (thankfully not a cotton one) for some reason they put some dirt over cardboard and threw some seeds and plants in there LOL

Hollywood cannot be separated between social and economic lines. They are not progressive. The limited kind of diversity they have (and the shallowness of it) is evidence of that. They have more black representation now and had some movies like Detroit and The Hate U Give only because the topic had already hit the mainstream big time for years before it. If something is progressive it is by definition not mainstream: it pushes an idea to make it mainstream.

If you take a movie like the recent Peanut Butter Falcon, you can see it had a very small budget and limited theatrical release despite having a high profile Hollywood actor. That's a progressive movie, and as such, it is relegated to the margins.

All of the patriotic whitewashing of history and pro-oligarchy, pro-authority messages in Hollywood movies should make it clear that nothing about its diversity is meant to be a challenge to the status quo. If you are on the right, everything on the left of you appears progressive, even if it is centrist. That doesn't mean it is objectively so. There is an objective reality here.

The reason why they are using cardboard is because it is one of the best and quickest way to convert that kind of grassy space into a permaculture garden. It allows you to get started quickly by avoiding to dig and has other benefits:

"Beneath the layers of compost materials, sheet mulches typically include a layer of cardboard to keep grass and weeds from growing through – a great way to smother unwanted vegetation or convert a sod lawn into a garden. Before long, both weeds and cardboard decompose and feed the soil with organic matter, while you pat yourself on the back for finding such a clever way to recycle and relieve yourself of the constant chore of weeding.

Sheet mulching also traps moisture in the soil. Every farmer and gardener knows that mulching is a must to cut down on irrigation, but the cardboard used in sheet mulching is much more effective at trapping moisture than typical wood chips or straw. When I used the sheet mulching technique in the parched landscape of California, I found the moisture in the soil lasted at least five to 10 times longer than a thick layer of mulch on its own."

The funniest thing about the CHAZ is seeing all of the ignorant, spectacle-addicted Marxists, centrists and right-wingers flood social media and expose their cynical and prejudiced views. It's hilarious that they all use the same talking points and spend so much of their time spreading fake news and hating on a project instead of doing something constructive with their lives

The best part is how all of these experts "know" that it's going to get crushed by the military within the next few days, or how "Anarchy doesn't work because there are people with guns who will oppress all of you". Like this is the first autonomous zone they have ever seen and they couldn't do 2 mins of Google searching to find out that they can last.

Baal is clearly one of such experts. He knows how silly they are - just look at that dumb ass garden where nothing will ever grow! Never mind that it was just started and it's already growing. Never mind that the guy who started it has an Energy Resources Engineering degree from Stanford University, a Master’s degree in Sustainability in the Urban Environment. Baal knows best

By the way, this was done explicitly to show that land can be used in a better way in random urban spaces; it was not made with the goal to sustain the people within CHAZ.










also:

Speaking of fake news, here's what Fox has been doing, using a stock image from getty to use on thumbnails for propaganda purposes



Details of where the above pic is getting the thumbnails from: + Show Spoiler +

On June 12 2020 11:23 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2020 01:54 Stroggoz wrote: You guys would know how important this was if you ever tried to control the world with propaganda. He who controls the past controls the future. That's a basic lesson in propaganda. it's not really fine if nobody in mexico gives a shit..that's slave mentality. People ought to take control over their own culture rather than having it in the hands of elites. obviously no reason to be offended over viking crimes in northumbria but if society builds statues of viking murderers then that's a problem. So yes, viking statues should be bought down as well imo. I could say the same thing about glorification of war in video games. These arguments extend beyond statues to essentially any aspect of culture. Meh in the city square of Trondheim there's this statue (was built like 100 years ago) It depicts the viking king Olav Tryggvason, guy who both started the christening of Norway and who founded Trondheim in 997 AD. He has a sword in one hand, a cross in the other, and the head of the Norse god Thor lies at his feet, indicating him defeating the heathens. I really don't think this monument glorifies violence in any meaningfully influential way, even if it honors a violent man of the past. It's there because the guy founded Trondheim, that's what he's remembered for. I'd think it was pretty dumb if people argued that we need to tear down this statue because we shouldn't honor any violent man of the past, or if people wanted to remove his sword in favor of like, a heart or whatever. He did 'found' Trondheim, and the sword is a more historically accurate item to depict him with than less violent ones would be.

I'd say within 15-20 years people will start demanding that we tear down this statue the way society is heading now, lulz

Haven't read much on the topic but did the mayor really allow it without any violence? That's probably the best decision made by a person in power in the past month if so

On June 13 2020 05:25 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2020 12:07 hiems wrote:   On June 12 2020 11:29 Spitfiree wrote: While there is no reason for both points to not be valid, there is a difference between the purpose of monuments and Hollywood. Hollywood is an entertainment industry and shouldn't be taken seriously. Obviously, in practice thats not how it works and I doubt anyone would disagree with you that Asians are being discriminated upon, that would be silly. Anyway, the main reason monuments of people are built is to pay respects to them and glorify their achievements, there is no entertainment purpose whatsoever there. They are also much more long-lasting and fundamentally strong in the way they're influencing society as generally a monument of someone would mean that same person would be taught as a virtue to kids in school. Also, no idea how you were left with the impression everyone here is a racist towards Asians. If one would cherry-pick the same way you do, then I can call everyone that uses the term 'Asians' a racist, as the three major cultures in Asia - Indian, Japanese and Chinese have very little to do with each other yet we generalize them (not even touching on the rest of the countries there e.g. Philippines have even less to do with any of the three mentioned before) - conversations like that are simply unproductive and petty Did you not look at the visual aid I provided for you? No one cares about a $20 dollar bill. It is a very ineffective propaganda mechanism. Whereas Hollywood is highly effective. I don't understand "Hollywood shouldn't be taken seriously." What kind of stupid idea is that? This is exactly the opposite of what you should do. Propaganda is most effective when it seamlessly hides into the background without detection. Propoganda is also most effective when targeted at populations such as children, because you can indoctrinate them from an early age. Are you going to tell children not the "take Hollywood too seriously?" Are you going to explain to kids and their world around them that they should filter out propaganda? What?? Seriously making the case that some stupid Churchill monument is more important than Leftist Hollywood brainwashing people has got to be one of the stupidest argument you have ever made in a long list of incredibly stupid arguments. Loco,Stroggoz,LiquidDrone,Spitfiree playing a big-ol-game of woke-intellectual circle jerk in this thread. First of all, Hollywood isn't "leftist". It isn't even left-leaning. It's centrist. The co-optation of identity politics by capitalist interests is a liberal, i.e. centrist position in 2020. It is not done for moral reasons; it is done for financial reasons. The same reason why elite universities and corporations focus on diversity programs: it's because it has been shown in social studies that diversity is good for business. What is good for business is a center position; it means that nothing fundamentally changes about the structures of the society. Secondly, while it's of course true that Asian American representation in Hollywood is scarce, no one is denying that, but it doesn't prove any of the other points that you make following from that. And with your example of Marvel, you miss two important things. The first one being that Marvel has been laying out the narrative for its introduction of an Asian American super hero who will has his own movie in 2021. They have had a lot of Asian superheroes in their comics too. Second part of that is, which other identity group isn't represented in that poster you linked? You focus on Asian Americans, but there are no trans people, no gay people, no disabled people in there either. But you don't give a fuck about them. In fact, you actively discriminate against them. You photoshop me on the pink power ranger because "it's gay" and on someone in a wheelchair because it makes me look weak and pathetic in your brainwashed mind; you constantly dehumanized RiKD because of his psychological health problems, etc. I bet if you go shopping and all of the parking spots are taken except the ones for disabled people, you get upset at the disabled people for having their own parking spots, and you think affirmative action for them is unfair to you and they haven't deserved it and you probably go on and take the spot. The main reason why you even have the pretense of an interest in oppression is because of your failed romantic life. And the main reason why it has been that way is not because women treat you unfairly due to Hollywood brainwashing. It's because of your shitty personality, your hypocrisy and sense of self-entitlement and the way that you default back to abusive behavior whenever you are upset. People from marginalized groups are not doomed to be forever alone; shitty people who won't take responsibility for their shittiness, are.

lmao i'll get to this gem tomorrow thanks.