On July 01 2020 17:23 Loco wrote:
Actually, yeah, I think the distinction between race and cultural factors there is spurious and I shouldn't be making it. It hasn't been proven yet afaik, but if they are discriminating in this way, it is indeed racist. But it doesn't change my conclusion, I still disagree about the notion of colourblindness being a better alternative, that "the cure is worse than the disease" currently. Again, it's not a perfect analogy, but it's like saying that able-bodied individuals are discriminated against when you create parking spots for the disabled. Yeah, okay, it's not a perfect system, maybe you have a really good reason to want to use that parking spot when the parking lot is full, but maybe, just maybe, you can't actually have a perfect system. That doesn't mean that the opposite is better. And it doesn't mean you are a target of discrimination, or that this problem you have as an able-bodied person should have priority over that of non-able-bodied individuals.
Fatherlessness and violence have nothing to do with "black culture". They are symptoms of poverty, which has been created by the nature of disproportionate state violence and economic disfranchisement against Blacks for 400 years. The problems with affirmative action today have the same source in white supremacy. The US has meticulously crafted this image that they have imposed on Asian people which they are now using against them through the minority model myth. This harms them, and we should take it seriously, but it doesn't harm them inearly as much as Blacks --it was designed to hurt Blacks the most-- and pitting them against each other serves only the people who have engineered these myths and are benefiting the most from it with their legacy systems.
i think comparing black people to the handicapped illustrates a lot of what's wrong with your starting point
white people didn't somehow trick asians into being a "model minority" and valuing hard work, education, cooperation and competitive, the family, and the not shooting of each other
go to asia
white americans didn't do that
I think you should follow your own advice and do more reading than writing. You don't even have a basic grasp of what the model minority myth is and how it was established. Do a little bit of homework before telling me what's what (and telling other people that they think they know more than they do).
People in Africa and African Americans work really hard by the way. You should look into their lives instead of repeating racist stereotypes. If African Americans didn't value education, they probably wouldn't be currently the most educated immigrant group in the United States (nearly 50% of all African immigrants hold a college diploma, which is twice more than white people born in America).
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 02/07/2020 14:36
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 02 2020 15:23. Posts 2233
On July 02 2020 13:34 Loco wrote:
I think you should follow your own advice and do more reading than writing. You don't even have a basic grasp of what the model minority myth is and how it was established. Do a little bit of homework before telling me what's what (and telling other people that they think they know more than they do).
"I can't answer your point"
why should i research something that's a myth
On July 02 2020 13:34 Loco wrote:
People in Africa and African Americans work really hard by the way. You should look into their lives instead of repeating racist stereotypes. If African Americans didn't value education, they probably wouldn't be currently the most educated immigrant group in the United States (nearly 50% of all African immigrants hold a college diploma, which is twice more than white people born in America).
wow good point i wonder why american blacks are so messed up compared to immigrants must be a cultural thing
yeah africa is a great and beautiful place you should emigrate there
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On July 02 2020 04:54 Spitfiree wrote:
The government is there to ensure that the freedom of people is untouched. Naturally, the word 'freedom' and the enforcement of it is something too complex to define. Popper defines the restrictions that the government takes to ensure social freedom by those that if otherwise let unmonitored would cause more harm than good e.g. unregulated gun market. As long as the people have the choice to change a government through elections it's all good. Which brings me to the point....
You're all just making random bullcrap conclusions regarding the fatherlessness, obviously, both sides make completely legitimate points, however I somehow heavily doubt that there are more people taking advantage of the system than those that simply need it. Either way, none of this can be solved without hard data and even then you will probably both interpret it in a way that passes your world views.
Then again Loco actually talks about the system's imperfections, while the rest of you just try to pass your views as empirical truths with no evidence.
The hard data (from the CDC) shows single motherhood basically tripled in black households in just the 3 decades at exactly the time the "War on Poverty" was started. I'm assuming that nobody is going to dispute that the main qualifying factor for almost any welfare program is household income. Putting 2 and 2 together is just common sense.
Loco's argument was that fatherlessness is a symptom of poverty so it's terribly unfortunate that something that is a symptom of poverty would explode during the war on poverty. I guess that would make the war on poverty quite a bit of a failure.
That's not what I said. You cut out the rest of the sentence. It's not just about poverty but about the causes of that poverty, and those causes affect why we see those results.
And yes, I used the word "fatherlessness". You're posting about nonmarital births and non-married black women with children. In what world is there a clear equivalent between "not married" and "the father isn't present in the child's life"?
I'll say the same thing I said to Santafairy: try doing some research. I don't want to debate Candace Owens talking points from scratch when thousands of people have already done work to show they are misrepresenting the reality of the situation. Here's some keywords you might find interesting: "the absent father myth".
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
If I'm broken then you're broken, because I was just mirroring your behavior/ineptitude.
If you don't think that myths matter, then you have even more of a reason to remove yourself from discussions that are centered on them, and do some reading/thinking on the issue.
And instead of just being an asshole like you I'll provide something helpful. Here's a guy who is very popular nowadays because his work is very accessible. He gets stuff wrong but he's a good introduction to the topic.
.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 02/07/2020 16:17
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 02 2020 16:24. Posts 2233
i'm asking you why american blacks are the worst off demographic besides native americans if first gen african immigrants are so educated asshole and you just ignored it to post that broken record nonsense
people disagreeing with you isn't a myth
the fathers aren't there, statistically, it's true
you can make any argument you want about the causal direction or the reason or relevance
sticking myth at the end of something and saying "google it" isn't an argument and isn't how anyone uses myth in the normal sense of the word
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
How about something new for a change guys. Let's do a group exercise! Raise your hand if you've used one of Ed Norton's Neo-Nazi character talking points in this thread.
*doesn't raise his hand*
I want to see some participation!
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 02 2020 17:34. Posts 2233
hitler liked dogs so i killed mine
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On July 02 2020 15:24 Santafairy wrote:
i'm asking you why american blacks are the worst off demographic besides native americans if first gen african immigrants are so educated asshole and you just ignored it to post that broken record nonsense
people disagreeing with you isn't a myth
the fathers aren't there, statistically, it's true
you can make any argument you want about the causal direction or the reason or relevance
sticking myth at the end of something and saying "google it" isn't an argument and isn't how anyone uses myth in the normal sense of the word
You said, and I quote, "why should I research something that's a myth" you fucking dingdong. That's what I was responding to.
No one has posted any statistics showing that the fathers aren't there. That's why I said do some research. Because if you do the research you'll see that they are there, i.e. in their children's lives. I even gave you the keywords and you can find out the actual statistics about it because they are cited in every single article that mentions those keywords. I'm not posting them because I want you to read more than just the statistics. I want you to read about why people believe in this myth.
If you don't care about the subject and you don't care about doing research that doesn't feed your confirmation bias, just admit that. Don't come up with excuses and complain that I owe you a back and forth argument and be disappointed when I don't write an essay debunking every single piece of misinformation that is bounced around on this forum.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 02 2020 16:34 Santafairy wrote:
hitler liked dogs so i killed mine
Santafairy, hiems: NeO-NaZis MaKe SoMe GoOd PoiNtS tOO!!!! ! !
Candace Owens: HiTLeR's NaTiOnaLisM WaS PerFecTly AcCeptAbLe, BuT HiS AmBiTiOnS OutSiDe oF GeRMaNy WereN'T ! ! ! ! !!!!!!!!
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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hiems United States. Jul 02 2020 18:11. Posts 2979
On July 02 2020 16:25 Loco wrote:
How about something new for a change guys. Let's do a group exercise! Raise your hand if you've used one of Ed Norton's Neo-Nazi character talking points in this thread.
*doesn't raise his hand*
I want to see some participation!
As I have told you in a few posts above...
If a "Nazi" says:
A. 1+1=2
B. 2+2=4
C. 3+3=6
D. In conclusion, A+B+C = 100
Its okay to agree that the "Nazi" is correct on points A,B, and C and say he is wrong about D. Your problem is that you are trying to make it inherently wrong to agree on anything with the "Nazi", which I have told you is wrong and dangerous.
Second of all you are using Hollywood propaganda designed to mislead people. As I have told you 45% or so of all damage during the LA riots were Korean businesses, which is conveniently ommitted in the clip above. Instead the script has whites attack a Korean grocery store...
idk why I am bothering. Your vagina seems hurt by me somehow and you seem adamant on your "im not talking to you anymore" strategy, which honestly might actually be your best way to go.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
Last edit: 02/07/2020 18:18
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 02 2020 18:27. Posts 2233
On July 02 2020 15:24 Santafairy wrote:
i'm asking you why american blacks are the worst off demographic besides native americans if first gen african immigrants are so educated asshole and you just ignored it to post that broken record nonsense
people disagreeing with you isn't a myth
the fathers aren't there, statistically, it's true
you can make any argument you want about the causal direction or the reason or relevance
sticking myth at the end of something and saying "google it" isn't an argument and isn't how anyone uses myth in the normal sense of the word
You said, and I quote, "why should I research something that's a myth" you fucking dingdong. That's what I was responding to.
yes as i said you skipped the substantive question
yeah i'm asking you to explain your actual point to me like a human and not just tell me to educate myself like a 15 year old tumblr dropout would say. i can't read your mind and i wouldn't waste my time trying when there's actually interesting books. again tell me if you know why american blacks are the worst off demographic besides native americans if first gen african immigrants are so well educated and amazing
On July 02 2020 16:49 Loco wrote:
No one has posted any statistics showing that the fathers aren't there. That's why I said do some research. Because if you do the research you'll see that they are there, i.e. in their children's lives. I even gave you the keywords and you can find out the actual statistics about it because they are cited in every single article that mentions those keywords. I'm not posting them because I want you to read more than just the statistics. I want you to read about why people believe in this myth.
first thing i found was wapo guy saying there are no fathers but the real problem is racism and other things. this is why the word "myth" doesn't apply and its use here is sophistry by radicals
"black men are all in jail"
"black men are all in their childrens' lives"
so yeah going with myth is a misnomer here
On July 02 2020 16:49 Loco wrote:
If you don't care about the subject and you don't care about doing research that doesn't feed your confirmation bias, just admit that. Don't come up with excuses and complain that I owe you a back and forth argument and be disappointed when I don't write an essay debunking every single piece of misinformation that is bounced around on this forum.
you write essays for everyone else's misinformation so my conclusion is if you had something appropriate to say you would and therefore probably can't but have to keep clicking forum buttons out of habit
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
NaZiS HaVe ThE RiGhT PrEMiSeS, JuSt ThE WrOnG CoNcLuSioNs ! !!!!! !!!!!!!!! As DeMonStraTeD By My MaTH AnAlOGy HeREForTh LuL.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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hiems United States. Jul 02 2020 19:16. Posts 2979
On July 02 2020 18:10 Loco wrote:
NaZiS HaVe ThE RiGhT PrEMiSeS, JuSt ThE WrOnG CoNcLuSioNs ! !!!!! !!!!!!!!! As DeMonStraTeD By My MaTH AnAlOGy HeREForTh LuL.
I can easily edit the analogy to say something like they are right on only 3/10 points or 6/10 points whatever you want and have the wrong conclusion. The point is that you are clearly wrong.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
On July 02 2020 17:27 Santafairy wrote:
first thing i found was wapo guy saying there are no fathers but the real problem is racism and other things. this is why the word "myth" doesn't apply and its use here is sophistry by radicals
Oop, problem is unrelated to racism, it's black culture. Ignore contradictory data in favour of common narrative that radicals (or liberals) have invented systemic racism. I believe that's a raised hand. Thank you for participating, I appreciate it! Let's see if other people chime in. Finally we have a community activity.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
would you elaborate why? americans drive japanese cars
Just in general skilled welding isn't a job that is getting out of the job market.
They buy japanese cars because american cars are inferior and that's because the industry is uninovative and mediocre due to the constant bail outs that keep that old and rusy machine going instead of allowing it to renovate, thats why Tesla became the biggest manufacturer out of nowhere.
if you are to say the government is flawed then i don't think the oh so honorable insurance industry is a great thing to point out as a substitute, do they like to pay out claims? just looking at recent events
yes apple, one of the most powerful 3 companies in the world, can survive a random catastrophic event. we're not talking about that
those risks are related to people's livelihoods. is it financial irresponsibility that a small family owned restaurant paying people minimum wage and feeding people has trouble surviving months of mandatory closure while having to employ people and pay rent?
Can't think of many industries more closely related to the state than the insurance industry so its not an example of what you think it is, I also specifically said I didn't necessarely mean direct insurance, I mean running a business taking into account variance.
Apple having cash reserves has nothing to do with its size, actually its the opposite usually the bigger the corporation the less cash reserves in relation to its revenue they have, Apple is one of the very few who does, and if you put all your chips in the table and the 2 outer comes I dont think you should be bailed out only because you didn't take that outcome into account whiel the guy next to you did, why should your recklessness be rewarded?
Small family owned restaurants werent bailed out, corporations were.
I appreciate your misunderstanding because I see you thought it was a status quo fallacy
my view is rather that the society or economy or whatever you want to frame it as, there is a set of parameters which we are using right now as a solution to run the system. now as regards optimizing this solution, I believe if there's a better solution, you should be able to approach it incrementally. i don't believe there's stable, more optimal solutions that can ONLY be reached discontinuously by (what I see as) absurd revolutionary antics (which opportunistically happen only in vulnerable times)
kind of dogma i have, like when i look and this place is 80% communist and it's shit, this place is 90% communist and it's even worse, this place is 95% communist and it's absolute hell, but the problem really is that we haven't reached 100% communism because that's when everything suddenly fits together and becomes perfect. or like gender equality. the more freedom you give the sexes the more their choices bifurcate, it's not going to switch and jump suddenly in the perfect ideally free and feminist society then women and men will be exactly 50% of everything.
I agree with this, I'm not advocating for violent revolultion, I'd like to see incrementally smaller and smaller government.
ROFL you're agreeing with him telling you your ideology is shit. Replace the word "communist" in his example with "free market capitalism". He's making the exact same point I've made in the past (but in a terrible way) when we were debating an-cap. Which is: all data shows that increased liberalization makes most people's lives on this planet worse, not better. The neoliberal turn that "liberated capital" more and more promoted extreme social instability due to stagnant wages and increased costs of living, generated the greatest upward funnelling of wealth and increased concentrations of power of all time, made a number of wars for resources and geopolitical power inevitable, ravaged the ecological world, ghettoized more and more communities, completely destroyed democratic systems, etc. Future generations are becoming mentally ill earlier than ever, and children are paralyzed with fear and eco-anxiety. Expecting more of the same to make things better is absurd. There is no magical point where more deregulation could turn things around.
His idea that there is such a thing as 80% or 95% communism is ridiculous, there is no such thing as a % of communism within a society. And his liberal conclusion that incremental change is always the only way to change things is wrong as well. When the rot is at the core of a system, you can't reform it, it has to collapse and be built anew. Building something new on a rotten foundation is being a dum dum.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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