On July 03 2020 11:44 Spitfiree wrote:
I don't get what you two are even arguing about, you obviously have the same standpoint, just reach it differently.
Remember how you were arguing with him about whether or not it's a good idea to cut off welfare programs (and the implication being that you make black people pull themselves up by their bootstraps)? Yeah, I wasn't making that case. He was. So, obviously we don't have the same standpoint, we have the opposite standpoint. Every other connected argument explains why we differ on this issue.
If it helps with your memory, I will quote him directly: "The big takeaway should be that an entire generation of men, especially black men, are being cuck'd out of their own family by big dick Uncle Sam".
That's not my big takeaway. My big takeaway is there has been hundreds of years of ongoing oppression towards black people, and the remedy to that involves a lot of hard work on our part to undo our own implicit biases, and a lot of work on the gov's part to invest in those communities. First step forward is to actually LISTEN to those communities. They'll tell you defunding the police is where it starts. You invest the money that goes towards the police into their communities. Not remove their benefits. That is the opposite standpoint.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 03/07/2020 15:07
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hiems United States. Jul 03 2020 15:24. Posts 2979
On July 03 2020 11:44 Spitfiree wrote:
I don't get what you two are even arguing about, you obviously have the same standpoint, just reach it differently.
Remember how you were arguing with him about whether or not it's a good idea to cut off welfare programs (and the implication being that you make black people pull themselves up by their bootstraps)? Yeah, I wasn't making that case. He was. So, obviously we don't have the same standpoint, we have the opposite standpoint. Every other connected argument explains why we differ on this issue.
If it helps with your memory, I will quote him directly: "The big takeaway should be that an entire generation of men, especially black men, are being cuck'd out of their own family by big dick Uncle Sam".
That's not my big takeaway. My big takeaway is there has been hundreds of years of ongoing oppression towards black people, and the remedy to that involves a lot of hard work on our part to undo our own implicit biases, and a lot of work on the gov's part to invest in those communities. First step forward is to actually LISTEN to those communities. They'll tell you defunding the police is where it starts. You invest the money that goes towards the police into their communities. Not remove their benefits. That is the opposite standpoint.
lmao..
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
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hiems United States. Jul 03 2020 15:33. Posts 2979
Loco what do u think about the Growing Tensions and Economic War we are headed towards against the Chinese/Xi Jinping.
Do you think your Social Justice/Economic ideas will help or hurt the competitiveness of the West vs. China? Or are you secretly a supporter of that regime lol.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
He didn't even try to reply to my post where I presented a pretty straightforward logic which implies benefits for society, so I thought he pretty much agrees with it
Imagine linking a comedy show done by the greatest black comedian ever as an argument to be racist ... funnily enough Chappelle had an offer that would've set him and his grand-grand-grand kids for life to continue the show yet he declined it as it was going to be used for specific propaganda
On July 03 2020 05:16 Baalim wrote:
radical people always do that.
You don't open with I love Castro and lets put capitalists in gulags at dinner with new people do you?.
These aren't "nazi recluting tactics" lol, its how everyone who isn't in the autism spectrum work
Okay, you're doing your usual diversionary tactic to distract from my argument which is that it's kind of an issue when your talking points overlap with Nazis, but yes, you're partly correct, radical people do try to get their message in step by step on both sides of the spectrum. That doesn't mean that there aren't recruiting tactics that are unique to fascism. You realize those two things aren't mutually exclusive?
We don't have any charismatic leaders that have the ability to shut off a listener's prefrontal cortex within anarchism. Just try to come up with one. Who do we have? Noam Chomsky? He explicitly says the opposite. He says that persuasion is violence. That if you have charisma, you should do your absolute best to suppress it, because he regards it as a form of violence. So he doesn't engage in the spectacle. You don't see him try to dominate people. The whole point of anarchism is to build people's capacities for individual flourishing. It's to produce people who can think critically and complexly and defend their own rights, rather than invest in a political party that will represent their interests. Fascism and authoritarian communism don't have this goal and don't think that way, so they have different tactics. They are both elitist "Great Men" theories that repress the individual and attempt to use him as a means to an end.
The same is true of your elitist authoritarian ideology; you just replace the Great Theorists with Great Billionaires, Great Corporations and Great Institutions. Replace the gulags for the "counter-revolutionary" by private prisons for those coming from "backward cultures" and "thugs" and make a buck off of their cheap labor. Replace the gulags with criminals like ICE and their private "detention centers". Bombard people with misinformation, use marketing tactics that make them stupider and more impulsive. Implement extreme surveillance and data collection to further your interest in enslaving the population and predict their behaviour and capitalize on their vulnerabilities and prepare for dissident uprisings, because hey, fuck democracy, people are too stupid to rule themselves. And the oh-so-virtuous Libertarian just make excuses for all of this manipulation and murderous violence and attempt to convince people that every other alternative is just going to be worse. And when it's pointed out to you that actually, it's possible to live differently and to have self-governance, you falsely claim that it works because it's an instance of right-wing libertarianism. Fuck off.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 03 2020 16:44 Spitfiree wrote:
Imagine linking a comedy show done by the greatest black comedian ever as an argument to be racist ... funnily enough Chappelle had an offer that would've set him and his grand-grand-grand kids for life to continue the show yet he declined it as it was going to be used for specific propaganda
Imagine seeing racism everywhere. Like i've said before there are differences between black people and nogs. Nogs are the ones asking for reparations.
Here's something that's worth watching for people like blackjaki who are confused about this situation and who think that structural racism is a big boogeyman or a "trump card." If you like FACTS and TRUTH there's plenty of that in there and it doesn't come from a DeGeNeRaTe ScUmBaG ANaRcHiSt so maybe, just maybe you'll be able to listen and learn something.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 03 2020 16:44 Spitfiree wrote:
Imagine linking a comedy show done by the greatest black comedian ever as an argument to be racist ... funnily enough Chappelle had an offer that would've set him and his grand-grand-grand kids for life to continue the show yet he declined it as it was going to be used for specific propaganda
Imagine seeing racism everywhere. Like i've said before there are differences between black people and nogs. Nogs are the ones asking for reparations.
Why don't you just fuck off? I just posted a recent Chappelle video that completely discredits your racist bullshit. He fully supports BLM and their demands. And before you say "oh, he's just trying to cash in on what's popular right now." He isn't profiting from the special and instead donating to and asking that people send money to the Equal Justice Initiative. That's Bryan Stevenson's non-profit org, literally one of the most heroic person alive today. You think he doesn't support defunding the police and reparations? Think again.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 03 2020 18:14 Loco wrote:
Here's something that's worth watching for people like blackjaki who are confused about this situation and who think that structural racism is a big boogeyman or a "trump card." If you like FACTS and TRUTH there's plenty of them in there and it doesn't come from a DeGeNeRaTe ScUmBaG ANaRcHiSt so maybe, just maybe you'll be able to listen and learn something.
Isn't this the same guy who said that requiring an ID card to vote is racist?
On July 03 2020 18:14 Loco wrote:
Here's something that's worth watching for people like blackjaki who are confused about this situation and who think that structural racism is a big boogeyman or a "trump card." If you like FACTS and TRUTH there's plenty of them in there and it doesn't come from a DeGeNeRaTe ScUmBaG ANaRcHiSt so maybe, just maybe you'll be able to listen and learn something.
Isn't this the same guy who said that requiring an ID card to vote is racist?
Yes, it was racist beyond a shadow of a doubt. Context is everything as usual (but very important to remove when you want to make something sound ridiculous for your hate-filled agenda). This professor explains it around the 34-35 minutes mark for those who don't know what our resident fascist is referring to. It will amaze you just how racist a seemingly harmless law can be.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 03 2020 18:14 Loco wrote:
Here's something that's worth watching for people like blackjaki who are confused about this situation and who think that structural racism is a big boogeyman or a "trump card." If you like FACTS and TRUTH there's plenty of them in there and it doesn't come from a DeGeNeRaTe ScUmBaG ANaRcHiSt so maybe, just maybe you'll be able to listen and learn something.
Isn't this the same guy who said that requiring an ID card to vote is racist?
Yes, it was racist beyond a shadow of a doubt. Context is everything as usual (but very important to remove when you want to make something sound ridiculous for your hate-filled agenda). This professor explains it around the 34-35 minutes mark for those who don't know what our resident fascist is referring to. It will amaze you just how racist a seemingly harmless law can be.
I jokingly put that reparations video there and turns out that you actually support reparations. The most meme concept there is. You really are a caricature of a SJW.
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 03 2020 20:03. Posts 2233
On July 02 2020 18:10 Loco wrote:
NaZiS HaVe ThE RiGhT PrEMiSeS, JuSt ThE WrOnG CoNcLuSioNs ! !!!!! !!!!!!!!! As DeMonStraTeD By My MaTH AnAlOGy HeREForTh LuL.
the thing is as an actual dispassionate person, it's really easy to admit that nazis have said and can say true things
your problem is you have to disagree with everything someone you don't like says
but there are multiple people you don't like
and they say things that are opposite to each other
so you have to believe contradictory things because the opposite of what one bad person says, is what another bad person actually said, and the opposite of what that bad person says is what the first bad person says
because just thinking in terms of ideas would be too inconvenient if our end goal is virtue signaling
On July 02 2020 23:20 Loco wrote:
"00:04
The absent black father myth is the idea
00:07
– the stereotypical and incorrect notion – that African-American fathers have
00:13
very little contact with their children, if any contact at all."
- Dr. Travis Dixon https://experts.illinois.edu/en/persons/travis-l-dixon - "Professor Dixon is a media effects scholar who specializes in investigating the prevalence of stereotypes in the mass media and the impact of stereotypical imagery on audience members."
this is your argument
rational person: these statistics show that black demographic experiences fatherlessness more than other demographics.
con artist: It's a MYTH that NO BLACK CHILDREN HAVE FATHERS.
rational person: that's not what i said, you're mischaracterizing the premise and making a straw argument
con artist: this was written by a DOCTOR and this was posted on YOUTUBE and there's a PROFESSOR and CNN. educate yourself
rational person: but this fatherlessness thing might be related to other problems faced by that community and we could investigate a causal link, and possibly try to change this and make some of the issues better because we'd like to help this community fix their problems (not just tell them all their problems are racism and keep them perpetually "oppressed" so they have an eternal reason to vote for a specific party as a block)
would you elaborate why? americans drive japanese cars
Just in general skilled welding isn't a job that is getting out of the job market.
They buy japanese cars because american cars are inferior and that's because the industry is uninovative and mediocre due to the constant bail outs that keep that old and rusy machine going instead of allowing it to renovate, thats why Tesla became the biggest manufacturer out of nowhere.
as far as I know Tesla is not a high volume manufacturer, they have a huge market cap as a stock but they're not biggest in a real metric
I'm generally a Musk fan so I don't want to be an opportunistic contrarian but from the business side of things they have only recently shown marginal profits, but that's also part of the business plan of rapid expansion under debt and while losing money and I don't know what the "model" way to make a successful new car company is but IDK if the "success" is there on paper
if you are to say the government is flawed then i don't think the oh so honorable insurance industry is a great thing to point out as a substitute, do they like to pay out claims? just looking at recent events
yes apple, one of the most powerful 3 companies in the world, can survive a random catastrophic event. we're not talking about that
those risks are related to people's livelihoods. is it financial irresponsibility that a small family owned restaurant paying people minimum wage and feeding people has trouble surviving months of mandatory closure while having to employ people and pay rent?
Can't think of many industries more closely related to the state than the insurance industry so its not an example of what you think it is, I also specifically said I didn't necessarely mean direct insurance, I mean running a business taking into account variance.
Apple having cash reserves has nothing to do with its size, actually its the opposite usually the bigger the corporation the less cash reserves in relation to its revenue they have, Apple is one of the very few who does, and if you put all your chips in the table and the 2 outer comes I dont think you should be bailed out only because you didn't take that outcome into account whiel the guy next to you did, why should your recklessness be rewarded?
Small family owned restaurants werent bailed out, corporations were.
okay so therefore government help is inherently evil because this one time it was bad and misused?
btw afaik the CARES act or whatever the business program was called they issued a statement telling all the huge businesses that sucked up the money if you don't meet the criteria of needing it, to return the money by a given time with no penalty or else. and btw another issue there was banks themselves not just the businesses but the banks thinking oh i have free gov't money it should go to this huge important client and so on
this is interesting, actually you're anarcho capitalist but in a capitalist system with a government the companies are bad if they hijack a system to get free money for themselves at an advantage
I appreciate your misunderstanding because I see you thought it was a status quo fallacy
my view is rather that the society or economy or whatever you want to frame it as, there is a set of parameters which we are using right now as a solution to run the system. now as regards optimizing this solution, I believe if there's a better solution, you should be able to approach it incrementally. i don't believe there's stable, more optimal solutions that can ONLY be reached discontinuously by (what I see as) absurd revolutionary antics (which opportunistically happen only in vulnerable times)
kind of dogma i have, like when i look and this place is 80% communist and it's shit, this place is 90% communist and it's even worse, this place is 95% communist and it's absolute hell, but the problem really is that we haven't reached 100% communism because that's when everything suddenly fits together and becomes perfect. or like gender equality. the more freedom you give the sexes the more their choices bifurcate, it's not going to switch and jump suddenly in the perfect ideally free and feminist society then women and men will be exactly 50% of everything.
I agree with this, I'm not advocating for violent revolultion, I'd like to see incrementally smaller and smaller government.
thank you for the breath of adult civility
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
the thing is as an actual dispassionate person, it's really easy to admit that nazis have said and can say true things
The good ol' thinly-veiled "I am actually very rational and dispassionate, and that is why I'm right; while you are too emotionally invested to find out the truth" right-wing tone-policing garbage. There is no such thing as a dispassionate person. It's just another myth that you have never examined. Even the mathematicians who are engaging in pure mathematics are passionate about maths. The neuroscientist Antonio Damasio has shown this to be true, and several others have replicated his findings.
Yes, Nazis can tell you truthfully that it is sunny or rainy outside. Thank you for enlightening me. That has nothing to do with the conversation. They have nothing true to say about race, in the context that they say it. You want to know why I can know that? Because there is a scientific consensus around race being a social construct, and that the "biology of race" has nothing to do in differences in behaviour between people or intrinsic abilities. And they deny it, and everything else that they conclude wrongly comes from there. Every isolated truth or piece of factual data that they use is used within a context for the purposes of distorting the reality of race and furthering oppression. So if your context-based talking points align with theirs, you are at least partly responsible for the radicalization that occurs on that side of the spectrum, even if you don't take it as far as they do.
your problem is you have to disagree with everything someone you don't like says
Your problem is that you don't read, and you don't listen. You don't intentionally, actively do those things. With actual curiosity. You exaggerate beyond belief. You evade. Basically, you are an addict. You can't help yourself, you gotta get your cheap dopamine hits by playing these games in which your purpose is to be as deceitful as possible for personal gain, like in poker. Except the game is linguistic, and the gain isn't monetary, it's just direct, cheap dopamine hits.
You think, wrongly, that it's only other people who fall prey to cognitive biases, not you. So you don't bother to learn about the mistakes in logic that you might be making and the myths that you might be accepting uncritically. You make up stuff, like this quoted sentence. As if I hadn't agreed with a ton of things that people I don't like have said, all over the place. Take a singular example: Jordan Peterson. I've read 80% of his "best books recommendation list". I agree with his interpretations of certain authors' ideas, I agree with his estimation of several of these works. I agree with some basic life advice that he gives. I agree with his beliefs that myths structure reality. I've mentioned these things before, and I never shied away from it. But boy do I fucking hate the guy's politics. Everyone who has been active on this forum knows that. Everyone, including you. Doesn't stop you from lying about me and caricaturing me as someone who just reacts based on his emotions, and who cannot think. "ME NO LIKE! ME OPPOSE!" Oh yeah that is such a fair estimation of me, oof.
Every conversation with you is a "gotcha" game where your purpose is to impress an audience that doesn't exist, and distort what someone says and ridicule that distortion. You apparently learned nothing during the months that you were inactive, but I have learned that you have learned nothing, so I will act on that and no longer engage with you.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 03/07/2020 20:52
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 03 2020 20:50. Posts 2233
no veil at all here this isn't a sharia zone
so a piece of true factual information, if used once by someone you don't like, must be denied
every basic challenge you have no answer for provokes an irrelevant diatribe as substitute
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On July 03 2020 18:14 Loco wrote:
Here's something that's worth watching for people like blackjaki who are confused about this situation and who think that structural racism is a big boogeyman or a "trump card." If you like FACTS and TRUTH there's plenty of them in there and it doesn't come from a DeGeNeRaTe ScUmBaG ANaRcHiSt so maybe, just maybe you'll be able to listen and learn something.
Isn't this the same guy who said that requiring an ID card to vote is racist?
Yes, it was racist beyond a shadow of a doubt. Context is everything as usual (but very important to remove when you want to make something sound ridiculous for your hate-filled agenda). This professor explains it around the 34-35 minutes mark for those who don't know what our resident fascist is referring to. It will amaze you just how racist a seemingly harmless law can be.
I jokingly put that reparations video there and turns out that you actually support reparations. The most meme concept there is. You really are a caricature of a SJW.
You should start thinking about a new username because that ban hammer is coming. How about FinalSolution1352? Pretty sure half of this forum wouldn't catch on to it.
true factual information
Not a reply, but just a general statement on the subject of information: there is no such thing as "factual information" independent of context. The etymology of "information" comes from French and literally translates to "giving form to". There is always an interaction for something to be given form to, there is a signifier and a signified in linguistic/semiotic terms. When someone criticizes the context in which data is used, they are not dismissing the data, because information is not reducible to data. They are associated concepts, but they are not one and the same.
It's not "hating factual information" to recontextualize data, and it's (at best) ignorant to claim that it is. The process of informing oneself is one where you contextualize data and knowledge in a way that represents reality as accurately as possible. You are not informed if you can quote a piece of data in isolation. And you are misinformed when the relevant context by which you can know things is obscured. It's like using a magnifying lens and standing 1 foot away from the Mona Lisa to look at it, and claiming you have seen the Mona Lisa. The Mona Lisa is the organization of the whole, it's not the magnified pixels that are narrowly focused upon. The information that you get by only zooming into the Mona Lisa isn't the same as the one that you get when you look at the whole thing.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 03/07/2020 23:11
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blackjacki2 United States. Jul 03 2020 22:39. Posts 2582
On July 03 2020 15:10 Spitfiree wrote:
He didn't even try to reply to my post where I presented a pretty straightforward logic which implies benefits for society, so I thought he pretty much agrees with it
Yes, I never said anything about wanting to end welfare programs. That's another belief Loco assumed I had since he just sees anyone that disagrees with him as a caricature as a neo-nazi that holds all the beliefs that Ed Norton in American History X holds.
I'm simply stating my belief that I think the creation of the welfare programs and their penalties against marriage created more out of wedlock childbirth and destruction of the nuclear family especially in the black community.
Btw I never even stated that I think the destruction of the nuclear family is a bad thing - although it probably is something I would state when you look at the fact that children from single-parent homes are statistically more likely to have nearly every bad outcome - commit suicide, do drugs, run away from home, not graduate high school, end up in prison, etc.
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