Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 258

On July 28 2020 07:45 blackjacki2 wrote: The way the argument started is by me calling you out for a double standard. As Baal puts it: Show nested quote + On July 27 2020 22:59 Baalim wrote: The left: Stop this "lone wolf" narrative!, why not call it for what it is: a right wing terrorist! Also the left: Unstable man. I actually agree with you that Trump is using antifa to drum up unfounded fear in his base. I also agree that laser focusing on crazy leftist stabby guy is a distraction. I just think you can make those points without applying the double standard above and immediately dissolving antifa/leftist groups any responsibility of fostering stabby guy's instability, because we all know if stabby guy was a right-winger you would immediately blame Trump's rhetoric as his main motivating factor.

But he can't concede that even if his entire credibility goes down in flames, I don't kow if you read our discussion about indigenous groups, he couldn't admit that these isolated Mexican indigenous religious groups were homophobic (something quite common in these groups around the world), he had to double down and claim he knew better than I did.

His worldview has fallen into dogmatic self radicalization over the last few years and now percieve the world as the struggle between evil and good, the capitalist fascists who are sociopaths, the caring and empathetic folk like him, and the masses of fools in between, this vision leaves no room for doubt, compromises or complexity, the only complexity it has room for is convoluted ways to reaffirm what he already believes to be true.

Thats why he has turned from a smart debater into this shell that thinks some links and 2h videos constitute strong arguments yet anybody can see how transparently insane his ideas are and in what dishonest ways he defends them.

On July 28 2020 08:08 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 28 2020 07:50 Loco wrote: I love how your mind immediately defaulted to saying the same thing as all the right-wingers in the comments of that video lol Because its true, which do you think has bigger odds of experiencing physical violence, a maga-hat in Portland or a BLM shirt on Nashville?

I have no idea actually, but what I do know is that I'd much rather take the attack out of an antifa or BLM mob than a white supremacist one. I think the likelihood of white supremacists stopping at knocking off the item in question, or some shoving, or a punch or two, is pretty low, while it's fairly high in the other group. The data on that is pretty fucking solid.

Not a useful thought experiment though, since both of these examples are symptoms of the same disease. When you support a system that has consciously made certain minorities second-class citizens and made sure they'd be extremely poor and fearful all the time, the violence that they enact in response to the social signifiers of their oppression is clearly not the same as the violence of those who support that oppression.

On July 28 2020 08:27 Baalim wrote: But he can't concede that even if his entire credibility goes down in flames, I don't kow if you read our discussion about indigenous groups, he couldn't admit that these isolated Mexican indigenous religious groups were homophobic (something quite common in these groups around the world), he had to double down and claim he knew better than I did.

Literally making up stuff. I am aware of homophobia in indigenous groups, what I said is that not all indigenous groups are the same, and I gave you some examples of some who have no issue with homophobia and not only tolerate trans folks but cherish them. I said there was no evidence that the Cheran people were violent towards gay people. Due to the fact that they have international attention on them, and the fact that they separated the church from the government, and they really care about setting an example in radical democratic experiments, they are keeping a close eye on every serious crime that is committed. As such it's easy to find out instead of theorizing about it: there's been no documented LGBT hate crime since the experiment began there. I asked you to give me evidence to the contrary and you couldn't, you preferred to double down on your assumptions. That conversation was by far your most embarrassing moment on this forum by the way. You proved to everyone that you didn't understand the simplest, most basic features of capitalism.


I love how you're going to blackjacki for tribal support lol about that exchange lol.... here's what he had to say about it at the time:

On June 26 2020 19:21 blackjacki2 wrote: Baal lives 10 minutes from the indigenous poors so his personal experience makes him very qualified to speak on these issues. It's just like how I'm super qualified to speak on what it's like to be homeless and living in poverty because my $3,000/month apartment is 10 minutes away from a homeless encampment and I regularly interact with the poors.

*sob emoji*

His worldview has fallen into dogmatic self radicalization over the last few years and now percieve the world as the struggle between evil and good, the capitalist fascists who are sociopaths, the caring and empathetic folk like him, and the masses of fools in between, this vision leaves no room for doubt, compromises or complexity, the only complexity it has room for is convoluted ways to reaffirm what he already believes to be true.

You're describing yourself. You grew up on a diet of simplistic good vs evil Hollywood drivel which you still love; you don't read serious books and engage in serious discussions with people to challenge yourself; you got radicalized by a cult leader, never grew out of his bullshit, and you now get your politics from memes and fascists or fascist sympathizers. And of course they can't be fascists or fascists sympathizers, since fascists are actually leftists in your "complex worldview", lol. You represent the worst of this post-truth era very well. I still wish you all the best though.

you don't get to delegitimize BLM no matter how many courthouses they burn down

nothing wrong with a little corrective violence

unless of course police officers use it

ww soon brace urself guys. get some silver gold hard assets usd gonna go down the drain

On July 28 2020 19:56 lostaccount wrote: ww soon brace urself guys. get some silver gold hard assets usd gonna go down the drain

eh?

On July 28 2020 08:52 Loco wrote: I love how you're going to blackjacki for tribal support lol about that exchange lol.... here's what he had to say about it at the time: Show nested quote + On June 26 2020 19:21 blackjacki2 wrote: Baal lives 10 minutes from the indigenous poors so his personal experience makes him very qualified to speak on these issues. It's just like how I'm super qualified to speak on what it's like to be homeless and living in poverty because my $3,000/month apartment is 10 minutes away from a homeless encampment and I regularly interact with the poors. *sob emoji*

Here's my full quote

On June 26 2020 19:21 blackjacki2 wrote: Interesting debate right here. Not sure who to trust. Baal lives 10 minutes from the indigenous poors so his personal experience makes him very qualified to speak on these issues. It's just like how I'm super qualified to speak on what it's like to be homeless and living in poverty because my $3,000/month apartment is 10 minutes away from a homeless encampment and I regularly interact with the poors. But on the other hand Loco has clearly been researching this topic for a considerable length of time - doing a google search for LGBT rights in Mexico and a control + f for indigenous and copy/pasting everything that agrees with you is no easy task. But Baal also has dumb and dumber to cheer him on. Tough call.

I give Baal the win on this one because despite the fact that I think he failed to provide evidence to support his point outside of the anecdotal evidence of his trans friend being killed, it's clear that wasn't his primary objective. His primary objective was to show how you would predictably jump in to take the counter position despite the fact you have very little knowledge on the treatment of LGBTs in this indigenous group. I think he proved that point quite well.

First of all, he was using LGBT rights as a distraction from the main subject at the time and in order to claim that they aren't progressive because they are indigenous people in Mexico and basically lumped indigenous people in the same non-progressive category. He completely failed at defending this point, which is not surprising because it's factually wrong. He thought that would help him make the claim that they are more right wing than left wing, it did not.

His trans friend died over 10 years ago in a completely different place, and I didn't take the "opposite position" for the sake of being a contrarian. I basically said "the burden of proof is on you, but if I have to guess, I'd guess that you are wrong based on XYZ factors." he was the one who made a strong claim and he couldn't back it up. That's the definition of failing in an argument, but good to know that you think that qualifies as a win and you guys got each other's backs to beat up on big bad Loco.

On July 28 2020 08:27 Baalim wrote: His worldview has fallen into dogmatic self radicalization over the last few years and now percieve the world as the struggle between evil and good, the capitalist fascists who are sociopaths, the caring and empathetic folk like him, and the masses of fools in between

Loco wrote: you now get your politics from memes and fascists or fascist sympathizers. And of course they can't be fascists or fascists sympathizers, since fascists

LOLOLOL this is like the meme

Baal:
Loco:

but works with literal quotes.

You have so little self-awareness that you don't see that you are proving my point, you think you are winning. I make the point that your thinking is shallow, excessively dependent on talking points and memes, and you respond with precisely that and only that: how it invokes a meme to you. QED.

Maybe you shouldn't waste time verbosely defending a convoluted and self contradictory worldview that can be dismantled in mere seconds by memes and other basic questions that you never have an answer to, then

BAAL DEMOLISHES LOCO IN THOSE THREE WORDS


Isn't it funny why such videos only exist for politically right audiences

Big Tech Antitrust Congressional hearing starting now.



Say what you want about Trump, but he is doing a really great thing at least trying to get this rolling. The lack of objectivity by these tech firms is very troubling. Hope the leftards in this thread agree with this...

On July 29 2020 15:49 Spitfiree wrote: BAAL DEMOLISHES LOCO IN THOSE THREE WORDS Isn't it funny why such videos only exist for politically right audiences

JOHN OLIVER EVISCERATES BERNIE SANDERS
JON STEWART DESTROYS BARACK OBAMA
CNN'S DON LEMON OBLITERATES ANDREW CUOMO

On July 29 2020 17:25 hiems wrote: Hope the leftards in this thread agree with this...

Why would anyone the left specifically not agree with that lmao, its the far right that wants complete freedom of market thinking its going to lead to a utopia

On July 30 2020 09:17 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On July 29 2020 17:25 hiems wrote: Hope the leftards in this thread agree with this... Why would anyone the left specifically not agree with that lmao, its the far right that wants complete freedom of market thinking its going to lead to a utopia

Because dumbass, it was just called the Tech Antitrust Hearing but going into it one of its main points was to address other concerns about these tech firms including national security / election interference, bias against conservatives(censorsship, etc) which are very important in my opinion.



I actually ended up watching the whole thing. Cliffs were Republicans focused probably 80/20 80% censorship against conservatives+other issues vs 20% competition, while Democrats focused 100% on competition and not one of them had issues with Big tech being biased against Trump, firing employees for their politics, Shady Search Engine Result Page, Censorship, Cooperating with China, etc.

I'm a conservative but I'm a rational person and acknowledge no market is perfect and there are merits to looking at the business practices at some of these companies. Same with the Republicans on the panel, they addressed their concerns over certain anti-competitive aspects of these Tech companies. Most conservatives are sensible people in general.

On the other hand, I was hoping the Democrats would be sensible enough to agree that these tech firms are far too influential in today's society that they simply cannot be manipulating their business which billions of people use with leftist propaganda but of course like I said before not a single one of those idiots addressed any one of those issues and one of the ladys called it a "fringe conspiracy theory" lol what a cunt.

It's simple, they are a conspiracy theory since anyone that has any basic understanding of IT knows how big of a resource must get involved to actually implement that type of search engine manipulation or censorship etc. - good luck keeping that large of a human resource quiet.

Cooperating with China is a joke of a point, the USA has been cooperating with China for ages its only now that it has suddenly become a problem even though literally nothing has changed... huge corporations want to take advantage of cheap labor and a 2 billion people market? SHOCKING!

That being said, they should be split as they are becoming too big to fail, contrary on Baal's beliefs that no corporation ever becomes that. Microsoft and Amazon for example probably hold around 95% of the Cloud IT Infrastructure, there is no software being developed that isn't hosted and maintained on their environments, including massive US government projects. Any company that pops up that has potential instantly gets bought and added under the umbrella. So now imagine that you could potentially become a competitor of one of the IT giants... and you're kind of forced into using their resources since that is the most cost-efficient way. I don't think people realize how huge Amazon is and how much it impacts everyone's lives on a daily basis.


I'd say Apple is the only corporation that is fine the way it is from the big techs, they don't really have any monopoly nor are they driving any of the markets they are in to the point of dictating the rules on the market. All their services have heavy competition and they only managed to be so successful as a company due to insanely good production and business decisions.

On July 30 2020 20:14 Spitfiree wrote: It's simple, they are a conspiracy theory since anyone that has any basic understanding of IT knows how big of a resource must get involved to actually implement that type of search engine manipulation or censorship etc. - good luck keeping that large of a human resource quiet. Cooperating with China is a joke of a point, the USA has been cooperating with China for ages its only now that it has suddenly become a problem even though literally nothing has changed... huge corporations want to take advantage of cheap labor and a 2 billion people market? SHOCKING! That being said, they should be split as they are becoming too big to fail, contrary on Baal's beliefs that no corporation ever becomes that. Microsoft and Amazon for example probably hold around 95% of the Cloud IT Infrastructure, there is no software being developed that isn't hosted and maintained on their environments, including massive US government projects. Any company that pops up that has potential instantly gets bought and added under the umbrella. So now imagine that you could potentially become a competitor of one of the IT giants... and you're kind of forced into using their resources since that is the most cost-efficient way. I don't think people realize how huge Amazon is and how much it impacts everyone's lives on a daily basis. I'd say Apple is the only corporation that is fine the way it is from the big techs, they don't really have any monopoly nor are they driving any of the markets they are in to the point of dictating the rules on the market. All their services have heavy competition and they only managed to be so successful as a company due to insanely good production and business decisions.

lol...

On July 30 2020 20:14 Spitfiree wrote: It's simple, they are a conspiracy theory since anyone that has any basic understanding of IT knows how big of a resource must get involved to actually implement that type of search engine manipulation or censorship etc. - good luck keeping that large of a human resource quiet. Cooperating with China is a joke of a point, the USA has been cooperating with China for ages its only now that it has suddenly become a problem even though literally nothing has changed... huge corporations want to take advantage of cheap labor and a 2 billion people market? SHOCKING! That being said, they should be split as they are becoming too big to fail, contrary on Baal's beliefs that no corporation ever becomes that. Microsoft and Amazon for example probably hold around 95% of the Cloud IT Infrastructure, there is no software being developed that isn't hosted and maintained on their environments, including massive US government projects. Any company that pops up that has potential instantly gets bought and added under the umbrella. So now imagine that you could potentially become a competitor of one of the IT giants... and you're kind of forced into using their resources since that is the most cost-efficient way. I don't think people realize how huge Amazon is and how much it impacts everyone's lives on a daily basis. I'd say Apple is the only corporation that is fine the way it is from the big techs, they don't really have any monopoly nor are they driving any of the markets they are in to the point of dictating the rules on the market. All their services have heavy competition and they only managed to be so successful as a company due to insanely good production and business decisions.

The idea that the world will be dominated by one single corporation is silly, the big oil companies of the 1800s didn't conquer the world and many failed, the auto manufacturer companies didnt conquer the world and most failed, Amazon will fall, buying up other companies at inflated valuations is not a sustainable business model.

Also ask yourself, all the mega corps through history, did this companies fall because of anti-trust government regulation or did they fall because of the market? hell... did the government hinder them at all or did they both enriched themselves together?