Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 282

On January 13 2021 00:32 RiKD wrote: Stroggoz, The feedback loops are terrifying. Why do you think $5 trillion over 10 years is some magic number? What do you think of AOC's GND? What do you think about the logistics/sustainability of lithium/cobalt mining as we progress into the future?

I'm going off Robert Pollin's (an economist) work on a global GND.

"Focusing on the clean energy transformation, the level of necessary investments would amount to about $2.6 trillion in the first year of the program. To be realistic, I assume that the project won’t begin in earnest until 2024. Spending would then average about $4.5 trillion per year between 2024 and 2050. Total clean energy investment spending for the full twenty-seven-year investment cycle would amount to about $120 trillion."

That's for the entire world, where the goals are:

zero carbon by 2050
45% reduction by 2030
full employment, which means everyone who wants a job can quite easily get one.
Obviously this involves stopping the burning of fossil fuels.

Paying for it would not require the government to go into endless deficit spending, nor would it require massive expropriation of wealth from the tax havens. And of course it would pay for itself within a generation.

I can't remember if he said much about changing the agricultural system, but that is extremely significant and is something that clearly has to be looked at. He has worked with several governments on potential GND proposals. Obviously each country would have a different one, but the spending should be roughly similar.

I havn't looked at AOC's GND. I'm sure there are many things wrong with it, and propagandists have cherry picked those things to try and discredit it.

Lithium and Colbat mining is a serious issue as it causes environmental destruction. As you know Chile and Bolivia have much of the lithium and there is a political battle between privitization nationalization of assets in those countries. I do not think the indigenous population will benefit from either scenario's unless they struggle for their environmental rights, and for regulations that ban mining which destroys the land. Any GND which valued EV's over public transportation would be a big failure for the environment, imo.

hahaha 120Trillion plan, full employment, it pays for itself, haha we certanly live in different realities.

To avoid confusion i was saying 5 trillion over 10 years for america, the quote from Pollin is the entire world's spending. I'm not quoting Pollin on those figures for the US, i just calculated 2% of US GDP.



Yeah 120 trillion is a big number but i also phrased it as 2-3% of gdp spent by each government a year..it's the exact same thing but big numbers have a different psychological effect on people. Consider the fact that we've already been on a similar plan:

4.5 trillion a year is slightly less than global annual fossil fuel subsidies, and there are more jobs in the green energy sector than the fossil fuel sector once a GND is implemented, (roughly twice as many according to Pollin), and many of those jobs do not require much skill.

There are a lot of things Pollin doesn't mention. He does not advocate indefinite deficit spending, which even in mainstream economics is doable-one only needs a higher growth rate over the interest rate, and control over one's currency, to sustain indefinite deficit spending. (That discounts dumbass countries which signed up to the euro). He does not advocate that corporations should simply obey the law and stop robbing the third world of a trillion$ a year through tax evasion. I could list many other things. AOC accepts the viewpoint from MMT, (i do as well), which points out that governments do not tax to pay for things, rather they do it to create demand for their currency. It also explicity points out why governments can never default on debt so long as they control their own currency. And in fact this is not really specific to MMT. MMT advocates controlling inflation by changing the amount of government spending accordingly, rather than changing the interest rates, but it also advocates changing tax rates accordingly, which is the same as econ 101. MMT was actually originally developed by a wall street banker that had a clearer picture of how the monetary system works than the fairy tales invented by some economists.

Also i have no skin in the anti-growth vs growth debate surrounding the GND. I'm fairly sure it's a stupid debate though.

But i will mention that full employment does add significant gdp to the economy, it would be over a $trillion, and as for paying for itself yes there is the added bonus of having free energy, with the exception of maintenance costs. This is far less costly than fossil fuels when spread out over time.

right now trump's supporters are wishing he had won

by this time next year the whole world will be wishing he had won

On January 16 2021 19:16 Santafairy wrote: right now trump's supporters are wishing he had won by this time next year the whole world will be wishing he had won

I have the feeling this will age well

Just like all the 'Trump is so GUUUUT' comments from before

It's impressive to be intentionally delusional for so long

I gave Trump all the chances in the world but frankly policy wise he was average, and image wise he was beyond awful, and yes perhaps he had to face a more hostile media and system than other presidents but he failed monumentallly, his only victory was not being a warmonger, but I think its more incidental than deliberate, he increased the military budget anyway ffs.

The world needs me to obtain Dr. Manhattan powers asap.

I will then install a puppet government with someone from LP as my head of state.

Loco will probably be imprisoned somewhere and I will create a youtube channel about it.

Think Loco would isolate himself somewhere privately without any need of your actions if someone like you has absolute power lmao


Putin is most likely going to perform a hari-kari on himself. Navalny managed to push him far enough, outplaying his ass on every possible level - its quite impressive

On January 17 2021 14:50 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On January 16 2021 19:16 Santafairy wrote: right now trump's supporters are wishing he had won by this time next year the whole world will be wishing he had won I have the feeling this will age well Just like all the 'Trump is so GUUUUT' comments from before It's impressive to be intentionally delusional for so long

yes, it will age well, unlike you, in another 5 years you'll still be posting the same vacuous feminine shit like this, if you take away the idea of an imaginary audience cheering for you your posts are those of a lunatic

let's see

-single party state
-single party third estate
-progressive retards appeased by cultural marxism while corporatist puppet guts economy and sells out country

what's on mr. biden's agenda
-wave of border illegals
-selling out US jobs to foreign workers
-selling out US companies to foreign ones
-gutting US energy (RIP fracking)
-exporting fossil fuel jobs to developing world and US enemies while unemployed, corona infected US taxpayer pays the brunt of pie in the sky green energy projects (Paris Accords)
-being nice to china
-probably dropping the ball and letting my fat neighbor test more nukes
-vastly expanded surveillance state
-tax the poor (obamacare individual mandate)
-tax the poor and middle class (repeal trump tax cuts)
-pack the supreme court with activist fucktards
-rising health insurance premiums, probably fuck up the current stabilization of them
-probably invade the middle east because why not

but at least he's not FUCKING ORANGE!

Biden and is half-dead and favors xhina so fuck him. This covid thing has wrecked so many lives all over the world whichever side you are on the political spectrum. Yet nobody in media is talking about xhina's accountability and i have to listen to retarded fox news for that kind of update lmao.

Its quite ludicrous to state shit like 'single-party state' when the Democrats win, but apparently that doesn't apply when the Republicans are in charge? How fucking stupid

You can apply as much bias as you wish, won't sound less retarded. Trump didn't do shit other than increase the wealth gap and further expand the tension between the social spectrums.

It's Trump that :
-went soft on NK and expanded the surveillance state
-went out on the nuke deal with Iran
-went out of the Paris Agreement
-passively-supported extremist groups like the fucking Proud Boys
-destroyed the relationship with practically any fucking ally the US had
-separated children from their families in fucking cages
-left the Kurds to be slaughtered in Syria after they helped the US balance the region during the Syrian civil war (that is an extremely important region for the US as geopolitical projects that will shape the energy distribution in the EU will pass through there)
-failed to take the US forces out of Afghanistan
-failed to replace Obamacare and put even more US citizens at risk
-didn't believe the pandemic is a thing leading to the US being one of the leaders of death cases per 1,000,000 population
-initiated a trade war with China that led to literally nothing else but hurting people that were most at risk
-spend hundreds of thousands USD of TAXPAYER money on golf trips

See the things that I'm stating are actually things that DID happen unlike the shit you're posting. As I said, you re completely delusional. And its not that Trump is bad or good, he is simply an insolent idiot. You would rather have an idiot sitting in the most important position rather than a Democrat, you're just another brainwashed dude.

Then again I don't know why I even bother when you clearly have no idea how the fuck anything works in the US considering this statement

-pack the supreme court with activist fucktards

On January 19 2021 10:53 Spitfiree wrote: Its quite ludicrous to state shit like 'single-party state' when the Democrats win, but apparently that doesn't apply when the Republicans are in charge? How fucking stupid You can apply as much bias as you wish, won't sound less retarded. Trump didn't do shit other than increase the wealth gap and further expand the tension between the social spectrums.

I think you're on the social spectrum

the evil Republicans you speak of haven't been in charge for 2 years so your whataboutism is poorly timed

but yes, there are substantive differences between single party control of the executive and legislature by democrats vs republicans, as corporations, media, social media, aren't unilaterally right wing, the democrats have an unusual and uncritical groupthink

if you notice, republicans didn't do anything insane because
1) republicans don't agree with each other
2) except for trump, they have had almost no agenda since the 90s other than democrats are satan
3) they think they're losing the culture war and don't want to do anything to provoke media wrath for fear of short term consequences to their electoral livelihoods

i'm not explaining this to you per se, but to any intelligent person who might be lurking and following the convo and can understand

It's Trump that : -went soft on NK and expanded the surveillance state

No.

If the DPRK had detonated 3 more nuclear bombs, Trump would have won the Nobel Peace Prize for denuclearization

-went out on the nuke deal with Iran

And?

-went out of the Paris Agreement

Yes.

-passively-supported extremist groups like the fucking Proud Boys

Go buy a tabloid

-destroyed the relationship with practically any fucking ally the US had

are these the allies we have trade deficits with, the allies that don't pay for defense, or the allies like britain and australia that we moved closer to...?

-separated children from their families in fucking cages

1. alleged families
2. that was Obama
3. SO WHAT? Do you want the government to keep children and drug traffickers together in custody?
Do you have any sense of anything?
How can a worldview be so wrong as to need to have things explained from the basics every time you say something

-left the Kurds to be slaughtered in Syria after they helped the US balance the region during the Syrian civil war (that is an extremely important region for the US as geopolitical projects that will shape the energy distribution in the EU will pass through there)

yeah that was a disaster, I wish Obama's coup to replace Erdogan with the military had succeeded, then they never would have been in that situation

-failed to take the US forces out of Afghanistan

He also failed to take them out of Korea and Germany and Saudi Arabia and Iraq

I'm not understanding, are you for intervention or not? Make up your mind

-failed to replace Obamacare and put even more US citizens at risk

why you hate Obamacare you nazi?

-didn't believe the pandemic is a thing leading to the US being one of the leaders of death cases per 1,000,000 population

good thing Biden's gonna force everyone to wear a mask when they get the vaccine Trump made in record time

-initiated a trade war with China that led to literally nothing else but hurting people that were most at risk

Whom?

-spend hundreds of thousands USD of TAXPAYER money on golf trips

when you're president, breathing costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

On January 19 2021 10:53 Spitfiree wrote: See the things that I'm stating are actually things that DID happen unlike the shit you're posting.

Continental genius discovers the difference between past tense and future tense in English.

On January 19 2021 10:53 Spitfiree wrote: As I said, you re completely delusional. And its not that Trump is bad or good, he is simply an insolent idiot. You would rather have an idiot sitting in the most important position rather than a Democrat, you're just another brainwashed dude.

I voted for Obama, and you are a waste of the Earth's space

Trumps blood, sweat and tears were used in creating the vaccine, what a hero. I'm sure he was in the lab day and night cooking up the vaccine.

Tell me how does it feel being in a cult? Will I be able to find footage of you storming the capital? How often to do you pray to the altar of Trump? So many questions

Hahahahaha

On January 19 2021 17:50 Santafairy wrote: I voted for Obama, and you are a waste of the Earth's space

This is the equivalent of "I'm not racist my aunt is married to a black dude!"

Will Trump Pardon the tiger king??

Should Trump Pardon the tiger king?

On January 19 2021 19:59 urasofty wrote: Trumps blood, sweat and tears were used in creating the vaccine, what a hero. I'm sure he was in the lab day and night cooking up the vaccine. Tell me how does it feel being in a cult? Will I be able to find footage of you storming the capital? How often to do you pray to the altar of Trump? So many questions Hahahahaha

grow up

the president who presided over the fastest vaccine ever thinks the pandemic isn't real

the cutting of government red tape being exactly what made that speed possible, resulting in several competing vaccines the world now gets to use, is a staple conservative position among US parties (shrinking government and deregulation)

On January 18 2021 18:39 Santafairy wrote: posting the same vacuous feminine shit like this, if you take away the idea of an imaginary audience cheering for you your posts are those of a lunatic

one size fits all

On January 19 2021 23:27 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On January 19 2021 17:50 Santafairy wrote: I voted for Obama, and you are a waste of the Earth's space This is the equivalent of "I'm not racist my aunt is married to a black dude!"

Retard: You'd rather have an idiot than a Democrat
Human: I voted for a Democrat
Retard: You're a racist!

On January 20 2021 04:45 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On January 19 2021 23:27 Spitfiree wrote:   On January 19 2021 17:50 Santafairy wrote: I voted for Obama, and you are a waste of the Earth's space This is the equivalent of "I'm not racist my aunt is married to a black dude!" Retard: You'd rather have an idiot than a Democrat Human: I voted for a Democrat Retard: You're a racist!

The point I'm trying to make is that who you voted for 8 years ago means literally nothing in this conversation and the fact that you bring it up only weakens your statement... I'm not calling you a racist

It's no wonder it went past you though after all you do support Trump after all that shit.

Pointless to continue this.

I'm sorry I will clarify

Retard: You would rather eat shit than a steak
Human: I ate a steak yesterday
Retard: This is the equivalent of "I'm not racist my aunt is married to a black dude!"