blackjacki2 United States. May 03 2021 21:07. Posts 2582
Good points. I have no issues with those arguments.
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blackjacki2 United States. May 04 2021 07:29. Posts 2582
More good news from my new community
With so many Asian people being mugged recently our glorious leaders are trying to reduce the penalty for certain muggings from a felony to a misdemeanor. Just make sure you steal less than $950 and any beating you dole out isn't enough to cause serious injuries.
On May 03 2021 07:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I was not saying anything about the frequency of black on white or black on asian racism or x on x racism, and I said that racism can exist in any of those x on x situations.
What I did say, is that racism is worse if it's backed up by power structures found within society - e.g. (hypothetically) if all police officers and employers are white racists who arrest or refuse to hire black people, that is more problematic than if all black people are racists who dislike white people, even if the amount of racism is the same.
Then I believe it to be true that more black people are subject to this type of systemic racism while the racism white people encounter is less likely to influence their life in any significant way.
Yes you said that and I agreed, but you also said that only a small minority of radicals believe the definiton of racism is "prejudice + power", and that was what the bet was about.
Social media tolerates racism towadrs white people even if it explicity says it doesn't tolerate racism in their T.O.S. which means this belief isn't held by a tiny minority, this is a core belielf of most progressives.
On a related subject what are your thoughts on "positive discrimination", do you believe its sistemic racism? like economic stumulus for black owned business post COVID on california or the University admission affirmative action.
Of course, it's not systemic racism in that context.
Systemic racism implies the negative impact of a certain policy. If you push down a minority group for hundreds of years and then continue to segregate them both physically and economically for decades the least society can do is to implement policies that would help them push out of the situation which their ancestors caused. I know - it sucks that the current generations are the ones that'd end up paying the bill, but otherwise they would just have no chance.
The problem with this whole argument is that people are fucking extreme and have to deal with the situation in a black/white scenario as if there is no middle ground. No, it's not fine to justify violence from the black communities. Yes, they should be 'positively discriminated' with measures that would bring them to the same level of development as a group of people. Is it so hard to have common sense?
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Liquid`Drone Norway. May 04 2021 16:17. Posts 3096
On May 03 2021 07:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I was not saying anything about the frequency of black on white or black on asian racism or x on x racism, and I said that racism can exist in any of those x on x situations.
What I did say, is that racism is worse if it's backed up by power structures found within society - e.g. (hypothetically) if all police officers and employers are white racists who arrest or refuse to hire black people, that is more problematic than if all black people are racists who dislike white people, even if the amount of racism is the same.
Then I believe it to be true that more black people are subject to this type of systemic racism while the racism white people encounter is less likely to influence their life in any significant way.
Yes you said that and I agreed, but you also said that only a small minority of radicals believe the definiton of racism is "prejudice + power", and that was what the bet was about.
Social media tolerates racism towadrs white people even if it explicity says it doesn't tolerate racism in their T.O.S. which means this belief isn't held by a tiny minority, this is a core belielf of most progressives.
On a related subject what are your thoughts on "positive discrimination", do you believe its sistemic racism? like economic stumulus for black owned business post COVID on california or the University admission affirmative action.
I really don't care about twitter and I don't know what it's representative of beyond twitter. I think twitter likes or retweets is frankly a pretty meaningless metric for how popular something is, because the people on twitter aren't a good representation of people in general. I've also been the moderator of a website for 20 years and damn there's a lot of shit we've let slide for reason x. (tl.net has a 'no racism' rule, but I've explicitly argued against enforcing it aside from the most egregious examples because 'racism' is too opaque to enforce in general.)
Anyway, I know a lot of actual leftist politicians irl and I think some number very close to 100% of them would agree with my definition, and not with the idea that it's impossible for black powerless people to be racist. It's just not a big deal when they are. If a black person calls me colonizer, my actual response is laughter, not being offended.. etc,etc.
Also, part of my studies involved getting together with a bunch of international students from Luxembourg (I guess we were 20 people from ~12 or so countries) with the explicit goal of creating a definition of racism that we could all get behind. At no point did anyone argue that power was a requisite for racism. The main point of contention was whether finding a culture or cultural trait inferior constituted racism or if it had to be biological in nature.
Like, I can easily accept that there are elements of the American left that I disagree with on some things. We Europeans have much more of a class focus, which I find far more sensible in general. But I think you're making a very vocal minority out to be more significant than they are in real life.
There is no such thing as 'American left' since there is no real representation of it. Democrats have indeed been talking about such ideas since Obama's time (or at least he is the earliest one that I remember personally without any research into the topic) but the reality is that the president's power is really overrated when it comes to legislation.
It's a complex topic since the taxes in the US are already quite high, except the way the money is used is mostly for military purposes, which makes sense since they want to police the planet. NATO talks that Trump raised such as 'you have to increase your budget spending in the alliance' simply will not ever pass since there is close to zero incentive for members to do so. It's not because that they don't want to, but any time there are talks about a joint EU army, the USA opposes the idea (which is self-explanatory from a geopolitical standpoint) and completely shut it down, so countries like Germany & France would just not bother to increase their spending in NATO.
Anyway what my main point is that the US governance very much continues with its neoliberal views of the world and I don't blame them since in order to solve their inner problems, they'd need to cut military budget and direct it towards healthcare and education, but that would make them lose ground in their foreign policy. Losing their world leader spot would cascade into a multitude of other issues.
The irony of it all is that a reform in the healthcare system would actually cut their spending by shitton, except private "businesses" will suffer. The average health expenditure per capita in countries like Switzerland, Germany, France, Belgium etc. varies between 5 to 6k USD while in the USA it's 10 to 11k USD.
Of course, you'd have 'original' republican thinkers trying to argue against the numbers as usual. What a bore
P.S. I know, EU nations like Sweden, Germany, France etc all have higher taxes, but that doesn't mean the US taxes are not high.
Last edit: 04/05/2021 17:40
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hiems United States. May 04 2021 23:02. Posts 2979
No point arguing drone he is not reasonable person idk why everyone acts like he is...
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
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blackjacki2 United States. May 05 2021 00:08. Posts 2582
On May 03 2021 07:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I was not saying anything about the frequency of black on white or black on asian racism or x on x racism, and I said that racism can exist in any of those x on x situations.
What I did say, is that racism is worse if it's backed up by power structures found within society - e.g. (hypothetically) if all police officers and employers are white racists who arrest or refuse to hire black people, that is more problematic than if all black people are racists who dislike white people, even if the amount of racism is the same.
Then I believe it to be true that more black people are subject to this type of systemic racism while the racism white people encounter is less likely to influence their life in any significant way.
Yes you said that and I agreed, but you also said that only a small minority of radicals believe the definiton of racism is "prejudice + power", and that was what the bet was about.
Social media tolerates racism towadrs white people even if it explicity says it doesn't tolerate racism in their T.O.S. which means this belief isn't held by a tiny minority, this is a core belielf of most progressives.
On a related subject what are your thoughts on "positive discrimination", do you believe its sistemic racism? like economic stumulus for black owned business post COVID on california or the University admission affirmative action.
Also, part of my studies involved getting together with a bunch of international students from Luxembourg (I guess we were 20 people from ~12 or so countries) with the explicit goal of creating a definition of racism that we could all get behind. At no point did anyone argue that power was a requisite for racism. The main point of contention was whether finding a culture or cultural trait inferior constituted racism or if it had to be biological in nature.
When was this though? The world changes rapidly. It's like in the TL thread where people are insisting that saying something anti-vax is basically an incitement to violence. This idea that words are violence is a new concept. It didn't exist when I was in college as far as I knew. There were no safe spaces or trigger warnings.
The new definition of racism = prejudice + power is new too. I remember the first time I even heard of the idea was in this video of this Asian girl talking about a black man saying some pejorative things to her and saying black people can be racist too and then the crowd silences her for saying black people can be racist too.
At the time people on reddit and elsewhere were ridiculing the crowd and defending the Asian girl. Today I'm not so sure they would do the same, especially if you substitute the Asian girl for a white girl.
In fact last year we saw one of the most popular dictionaries update their definition of racism
PokerDoc88 Australia. May 05 2021 12:35. Posts 3527
Poor asian girl. What a ridiculous bunch of woke pussies trying to silence her for expressing how she felt.
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Liquid`Drone Norway. May 05 2021 14:46. Posts 3096
It was about five years ago. I've seen more recent debates too, though, again between actual politicians with influential power. I genuinely have never outside of twitter links posted here (again, I do not visit twitter on my own) seen someone claim that power is a requirement to be racist - only that racism is a bigger issue when backed by power.
merriam webster changing their definition is a solid argument though, I'll give you that. And god damn, reading the argument in that the guardian article is mind numbing. Why on earth would a more restrictive definition of racism be a good way to handle the problem that 'She said that people often use the dictionary definition of racism to argue that something is not racist, on the basis that racism requires a personal dislike of someone based on their race to be real'?
lol POKER
Last edit: 05/05/2021 14:51
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hiems United States. May 07 2021 16:15. Posts 2979
Baal do you have any insights into these protests in Colombia right now?
As in do the protesters have a legit case or is it some socialist/communist AOC type thing.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
Cant wait for Iran to get a nuke so the Mid East either cools off or turns into a giant hole
Palestinians are treated like dogs, they are under occupation while their rights are completely ignored. Israel can suck a dick
Last edit: 14/05/2021 23:46
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hiems United States. May 15 2021 16:50. Posts 2979
It was a sponge bullet that the woman shot for sport...didnt kill the boy though he ended up being wounded idk the details. The woman was apparently arrested for doing this.
I generally don't opine on Israel vs Palestine because it's very much outside my realm of life experience and knowledge.
Those reddit comments all the top voted comments assume she killed him.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
On May 15 2021 15:50 hiems wrote:
Those reddit comments all the top voted comments assume she killed him.
I generally don't read comments on reddit cause I find 99% of them retarded opinions with no backing facts. Didn't actually know if he died or not when he got shot, but the fact he did is the issue
Doesn't matter when Israel left Gaza, there's quite a lot of Palestinians in Israel and the "irony" is that they are being treated the same way that the jews got treated during WW2 excluding the camps.
I'm also not against Israel in general, I'd bomb the shit out of Hamas targets too if they send out hundreds of bombs, even if it was semi-provoked.
The issue is that in long-term Israel and that region is fucked. They're not building diplomatic relations, at some point, one of the Muslim countries is going to get a nuke (prob Iran), the USA will not be the global leader forever as those things happen in cycles and then Israel'd be in a spot where they are defending themselves from literally everyone around them. The whole region is packed with hatred against each other, which is a ticking bomb. I'm guessing Turkey wouldn't have the capacity to stop another massive wave of war immigrants towards Europe too... The Mid-East could cause a butterfly effect of change across everywhere
On May 15 2021 15:50 hiems wrote:
Those reddit comments all the top voted comments assume she killed him.
Doesn't matter when Israel left Gaza, there's quite a lot of Palestinians in Israel and the "irony" is that they are being treated the same way that the jews got treated during WW2 excluding the camps.
So I guess FN's ranking of people's living standard around the world must be incorrect. Palestine people even in occupied areas have a "medium" living standard, better than f.example people in Egypt.
The muslim population in Israel is one of the happiest in the world, they have rights and living standards that most muslims in the middle east can only dream of. "Apartheid", lol
In this current situation, I think Mahmoud al-Habbash (president Abbas advisor) quote from 2018 describes it best. "Hamas acts of "heroism" dont fool anyone anymore". For a long time I used to buy into the arabic narrative, because the norwegian media used to only cover the conflict from this perspective. But after listenting to both sides of the story I must say I sympathize more with the israeli cause.
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