Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 318

Merry Christmas to you all (even you hiems)

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last holdouts of white republican racists are finally leaving the safe well-managed and prosperous states of CA, IL, NY and returning to their bigoted natural habitats of texas

lol

lol

lol

On December 22 2021 13:03 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On December 22 2021 09:29 Santafairy wrote: what would you change about US labor law? Let's see where to begin. First all of these changes will be on federal level, so employers and individual states can't fuck around - guarantee at least 20 days PTO based on the amount of time you've spent on the new job (right now on a federal level you can't even take PTO first year what a joke) - guarantee at least 1 year of paid motherhood with 2 years of keeping your spot - guarantee anti-discriminatory laws for women so that those that want to have a family shouldn't feel threatened by the employers - guarantee at least 3 months of paid fatherhood - guarantee paid federal holidays - these are currently not required to be paid - guarantee breaks during working hours (the fact that this needs to even be mentioned is a joke of itself) - guarantee you can't fire someone without a valid reason unless they're in a 3 to 6 months trial period. This goes both directions - can't leave without a notice unless it's a mutual agreement. If they want to fire you with no valid reason a severance pay of a few months should be a given and still only if the employee is fine w that - guarantee paid sick leave (larger topic obv and you need an actual functioning healthcare system) - increase the minimum wage (yeah I know nobody pays the 7.25$ that's in your federal law, so nothing against making it a mandatory thing across the entire country eh?) - the last point also should includes the youth under 20 as they are paid even less legally lmao This MIGHT bring you a bit closer to the civilized world.

lol

the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic.

then again you're in favor of a system that benefits a very small number of individuals that end up taking pretty much 95% of the wealth

How is that ironic

On January 04 2022 12:20 Spitfiree wrote: the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic. then again you're in favor of a system that benefits a very small number of individuals that end up taking pretty much 95% of the wealth

No, i'm in favor of a system that maximizes economic and personal freedom to maximize economic output and at the same time minimizes the frictions to move up the economic ladder leading to a more fair society, getting rid of all the pest of moronic bureocrats and their futile attempts at controlling these things and only creating endless rules that are chains for the poor and net for the cynical rich, for example:

You want 1 year maternity leave for women, most small businesses can't afford this obv so it benefits corporations.
Fix? ok the taxpayer pays for it so it doesnt fall on the business directly.
Businsesses are still decentivized to hire women because of this.
Fix? put gender quotas.
Quotas in manual jobs or where women aren't interested in leads to sub-optimal productivity and blatantly discriminatory hiring practices.
Fix?

"and so on, and so on" -in Zizek's voice

You see my point, with 1 regulation you end up with a massive rule book that as I said ends up being pure friction in pursuit of what you think its right not realizing so much more could be done by organincally letting the market flow.

AOC partying maskless in Miami while the biggest ever COVID wave is taking off. Remember 1 year ago when she jumped in front of senior citizens to get her COVID vaccine because she's an important member of Congress and needs to go to the front of the line? Rules for thee but not for me.

How are businesses disincentivized to hire women because of this?

I live in a highly patriarchal society where women have 2 years of paid maternity leave. The IT industry is the highest-paid among them all and also pay the highest amount of taxes and have close to zero contribution in the grey sector, while in my country around 40% of the people don't pay taxes on the money they actually receive from employers, meaning that the IT industry should by your words be even more incentivized to NOT hire women, right? They have every reason to minimize costs since the industry is carrying the country on its back and the maternity leave in the first year is fully paid by the employer (women receive 80% of the salary they'd usually receive if working)

Yet we're one of the leaders of women in IT worldwide - go figure! If you live in a society that revolves around safety nets people the majority of people won't try to abuse them. I have plenty of friends that own their small businesses and their staff is almost always 50-50 women/men and they don't fail when women go on maternity leave. If your business can't afford to pay by normal standards then it shouldn't exist. Corporations have the full capacity to do that across the globe, yet in the US you're lucky if you have 3 months maternity leave. What a joke.

You view this entire point from the perspective of a capitalist that gives zero fucks about his employees.

How is it that these policies work perfectly across entire Europe? How is it that EU-nations has all these benefits on virtually any social level with lower GDP per capita, yet people are much happier, there are fewer homeless and absolute poverty is almost unheard of?

On January 05 2022 09:33 blackjacki2 wrote: AOC partying maskless in Miami while the biggest ever COVID wave is taking off. Remember 1 year ago when she jumped in front of senior citizens to get her COVID vaccine because she's an important member of Congress and needs to go to the front of the line? Rules for thee but not for me.

Djokovic was just exempted from having to be vaccinated to play the Australia Open after the shitstorm of a lockdown Australians had until a few weeks ago. I'm confused how they haven't started hanging government officials

On January 05 2022 12:00 Spitfiree wrote: How are businesses disincentivized to hire women because of this?

Because they will take 1 year off when they have a child and a man only 3 months, so if they perform equally you'd be incentivized to hire men.

If you live in a society that revolves around safety nets people the majority of people won't try to abuse them.

People who have a higher earning than what the safety net provides won't touch it, but anybody close will use or exploit it, this is very easy to prove, lets say you give a 10k UBI, see how many millions drop from their jobs the next day.

I have plenty of friends that own their small businesses and their staff is almost always 50-50 women/men and they don't fail when women go on maternity leave. If your business can't afford to pay by normal standards then it shouldn't exist. Corporations have the full capacity to do that across the globe, yet in the US you're lucky if you have 3 months maternity leave. What a joke.

I"m not sure if you are talking in a world where the business pays the salary or the taxpayer, because in the 1st scenario there is a 0% chance that small businesses can survive that, in the other scenario its just very inconvenient, you have to hire somebody else and when the mother returns she has no place in the business.

You view this entire point from the perspective of a capitalist that gives zero fucks about his employees.

No I don't, It's just easier for you to strawman my point into that, grow up and realize its not about caring and not caring, I've alreayd told you that without these regulations workers would be much better, I know you don't think so but at least have the decency to stop arguing like a child.

How is it that these policies work perfectly across entire Europe? How is it that EU-nations has all these benefits on virtually any social level with lower GDP per capita, yet people are much happier, there are fewer homeless and absolute poverty is almost unheard of?

Mexico has less homeless than the US yet we migrate by the millions there, curious.

The most left leaninig cities have the highest homelessness rates in the US, perhaps it isnt worker regulations and unions what keeps people off the streets genius.

Djokovic was just exempted from having to be vaccinated to play the Australia Open after the shitstorm of a lockdown Australians had until a few weeks ago. I'm confused how they haven't started hanging government officials

I thought government officials were great and shuld impose rules upon society to make it function better.








The EU bureaucrats with their brilliant regulations didn't see this coming, weird how that works out eh?

On January 05 2022 12:00 Spitfiree wrote: You view this entire point from the perspective of a capitalist that gives zero fucks about his employees.

To expand upon this kind of comment let's try to avoid falling into these traps that will only devolve conversations to a Hiems vs Loco level of discourse.

I could write off left-wing ideas as just the manifestation of resentfulness, and while sure socially-resentful people will gravitate towards leftist ideas, also well-off psychopatic & egotistical personalities will gravitate towards hard hierarchical ideals, theres plenty of shitty people to fal into their kind of dogma.

I don't base my ideas in "fuck workers and poor people" I care about them as much as you do and the way I think they way society would archieve its best quality of life goes directly in coorelatin to its economic freedom, and that the quality of working conditions is attained through a strong economy rather than any regulations, and if bosses would exploit workers with no oversight happens based on scale, depersonalization make these things much easier like in corps, and of course there are many more potenntial problems to be disucssed and ironed out, and that should be the basis of these discussions, you poke holes in my argument, and I do so in yours, but I don't assume you have nefarious intent just because its intellectually easier for me to do so

It's good that you put a theoretical example regarding the UBI since there was a 2-year long experiment in a city in Canada which completely disproves your point - https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/...ten-universal-basic-income-experiment

Nobody is proposing to hand out enough money for luxurious life, we're talking about basic necessities to cover your survival and allow you the freedom to switch your life around. Instead in the US you now have the /r/antiwork that has gained insane popularity, mainly because people work 40hr weeks without being able to afford food. I also love how you're arguing theoretically against my literal practical example of how the IT industry here works even though it has every reason to go in the direction you're proposing. You absolutely CAN keep politicians responsible for their actions and have regulations, having social-oriented politics doesn't mean you let the government-run rampant with whatever they want otherwise you go from one extreme to the other.

'Left-leaning' cities in the US are an oxymoron when the entire country has no social-oriented goals on a federal level. Their strategy is basically the same as if a 2nl player starts doing some shit Isildurr is doing without understanding it at all

I get your idea but it revolves mostly around theories and if anything capitalism has shown us that is works slightly better than any other extreme we've attempted. A well rounded mix of both cultures seems to be working just fine

On January 06 2022 09:23 Spitfiree wrote: It's good that you put a theoretical example regarding the UBI since there was a 2-year long experiment in a city in Canada which completely disproves your point - https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/...ten-universal-basic-income-experiment

You are missing the point, I wasn't taking shots at UBI but about the usage/exploitation of safety nets, if unemployment "pays" close to what your employment opportunities do, most people will choose unemployment, because people won't do menial uninteresting jobs for free.

If you've paid attention you should know that I have favourable views regarding UBI as a method of wealth redistribution since its the only "non-exploitable" one that requires the least amount of bureaocracy even if its less effective in its trasnfer of wealth than rich-to-poor.

Nobody is proposing to hand out enough money for luxurious life, we're talking about basic necessities to cover your survival and allow you the freedom to switch your life around. Instead in the US you now have the /r/antiwork that has gained insane popularity, mainly because people work 40hr weeks without being able to afford food.

What people can't afford food working 40h a week? in what cities? I mean if its hyperbole, fine, but lets clear that up.

I also love how you're arguing theoretically against my literal practical example of how the IT industry here works even though it has every reason to go in the direction you're proposing. You absolutely CAN keep politicians responsible for their actions and have regulations, having social-oriented politics doesn't mean you let the government-run rampant with whatever they want otherwise you go from one extreme to the other.

Baal: If you give women 1 12 months off and men 3 months off you create an incentive to hire men over women
Spitfiree: But the computer and gaming industry in Bulgaria has a lot of women

LOL what am I suppoused to argue there?

Oh you got me there friend, bulgarian women in IT proves that 12 isn't actually grater than 3 and that people don't hire logically and there are no such things as incentives lol.

'Left-leaning' cities in the US are an oxymoron when the entire country has no social-oriented goals on a federal level.

States in the US are quite autonomous, comparable to countries in the EU, California has drastically different laws than a red state.

The vast majority of homeless reside in left leaning cities for many reason, one is that most homelessness in the US is drug related and its mostly a city problem, and second, its because of icentives, these left-leaning policies makes it more welcoming for homeless so they naturally migrate to these cities.

I get your idea but it revolves mostly around theories and if anything capitalism has shown us that is works slightly better than any other extreme we've attempted. A well rounded mix of both cultures seems to be working just fine

The thing is that we've had many historical statist attempts at capitalist and socialilst societies, but very few examples of small goverment or decentralized ones, theres a couple of left ones, hippie communies, Rojava, Christiana but even less right ones beside the ones that spur out of chaos like Somalia post-coup or some shitty ghetto in Hong Kong.

It seems that there is a natural tendency in any society to form a government and it continues to grow in non-stop, that is a cycle that we must break free from.

Read Manifesto for a Democratic Civilization Book 1 by Abdullah Öcalan with me Baal.

Then, we can read Anarchy, State, Utopia by Robert Nozick.

On January 06 2022 22:34 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2022 09:23 Spitfiree wrote: It's good that you put a theoretical example regarding the UBI since there was a 2-year long experiment in a city in Canada which completely disproves your point - https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/...ten-universal-basic-income-experiment You are missing the point, I wasn't taking shots at UBI but about the usage/exploitation of safety nets, if unemployment "pays" close to what your employment opportunities do, most people will choose unemployment, because people won't do menial uninteresting jobs for free.

Right, in the context of maternity leave they are not 'opting in' for unemployment. They're opting in to turn their lives into hell for a few years while being financially stable. Raising a child seems like the hardest and most physically and emotionally draining thing we have. The same laws that we have here are applied throughout all EU-member states it's not a unicorn case with our IT industry, I gave it as an example as it was the easiest.

Do agree with the rest. I believe you'd have the same opinion on this topic if you'd see paid maternity leave as a human right rather than a way to financially exploit the system

On January 04 2022 12:20 Spitfiree wrote: the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic. then again you're in favor of a system that benefits a very small number of individuals that end up taking pretty much 95% of the wealth

We are fucked in the long run thou