Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 319

Someone told me in USA you can make 25$ per hour babysitting or walking dogs.

And that basically nobody is making minimum wage anymore.

On January 04 2022 12:20 Spitfiree wrote: the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic.

The difference is, in USA you just have to work to live a good life. You cant be a leech like in Norway or north-european / west countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_incomehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

It will be a winning strategy in the long run, unlike us in North Europe. We are fucked.

On January 07 2022 18:38 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On January 04 2022 12:20 Spitfiree wrote: the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic. It will be a winning strategy in the long run, unlike us in North Europe. We are fucked.

Nobody's saying you can't make money in the US. I'm simply saying their labor laws are completely laughable and you gotta slave your life away for a job. Money is means of living, not the goal of life.

Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to?

On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2022 18:38 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 04 2022 12:20 Spitfiree wrote: the fact that the very basic rights we have in the EU are laughable to you is ironic. It will be a winning strategy in the long run, unlike us in North Europe. We are fucked. Nobody's saying you can't make money in the US. I'm simply saying their labor laws are completely laughable and you gotta slave your life away for a job. Money is means of living, not the goal of life. Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to?

While I do appreciate these work benefits and even goverment benefits myself (I think my salary is too good for the job I have, which is basically a no-education job), I do fear that cynism wins in the long run. For example: accepting migrants based on education/knowledge/experience there is a lack of. Especially if you can do it without getting everyone against you. A mindset that applies to the entire structure?

On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to?

Because 4 of the top 5 biggest companies in the US were created less than 25 years ago.

Of Europes 100 biggest companies not a single one was founded in the last 40 years.

On January 08 2022 00:49 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to? Because 4 of the top 5 biggest companies in the US were created less than 25 years ago. Of Europes 100 biggest companies not a single one was founded in the last 40 years.

Is your argument really a lack of innovation during a pandemic that was almost resolved by a small german company?

I can't take 'biggest' companies as a serious argument considering Tesla is worth 10x more than VW based on marketcap while delivering 10% of the vehicles that VW delivers - market caps are a big joke and of no real use to compare a company's real worth. Naturally, tech companies are prevailing. If you look at the past 100 years in Europe we've had the continent be demolished for 40 years of them by the biggest wars known to mankind and yet we're still the 2nd biggest economy. If you ask me this is quite astonishing considering these processes take decades to revert. There are no real massive internal issues, the ' immigrants problem' in Europe has existed for the past 2000 year - it's nothing new. There is a sense of solidarity and community, all of these are lacking in the US at the moment.

On January 08 2022 11:44 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2022 00:49 Baalim wrote:   On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to? Because 4 of the top 5 biggest companies in the US were created less than 25 years ago. Of Europes 100 biggest companies not a single one was founded in the last 40 years. Is your argument really a lack of innovation during a pandemic that was almost resolved by a small german company? I can't take 'biggest' companies as a serious argument considering Tesla is worth 10x more than VW based on marketcap while delivering 10% of the vehicles that VW delivers - market caps are a big joke and of no real use to compare a company's real worth. Naturally, tech companies are prevailing. If you look at the past 100 years in Europe we've had the continent be demolished for 40 years of them by the biggest wars known to mankind and yet we're still the 2nd biggest economy. If you ask me this is quite astonishing considering these processes take decades to revert. There are no real massive internal issues, the ' immigrants problem' in Europe has existed for the past 2000 year - it's nothing new. There is a sense of solidarity and community, all of these are lacking in the US at the moment.

market caps are not exact, however they're not a big joke just because you found the most obvious outlier case of tesla

the idea that men are bigger and stronger than women is not a "big joke" just because warwick davis is smaller than most women or because rosie o'donnell and amy schumer are bigger than most men. if you have a large sample, some will be outliers. if you look at one outlier and say, this is my sample, that is called cherry picking. top 100 companies is a LOT and if Baal's fact is true it's quite interesting

in general there are market reasons from rational consumers that affect why Apple's market cap would be bigger than Spitfiree Basementronics. the fact that it's not an exact science so it doesn't represent a company's "real" worth is not material, as you're now encountering the basic fact that things don't have a "real" worth they have a price that people will or won't pay based on supply and demand

critically Baal is not comparing companies, he's comparing regions. you'd do better to explain why market caps in US markets are not comparable to those in european markets. but tesla aside afaik apple, google, amazon, etc. have sick gross revenues. anyway okay it's natural tech companies prosper. why are tech companies all US then...?

On January 09 2022 06:19 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2022 11:44 Spitfiree wrote:   On January 08 2022 00:49 Baalim wrote:   On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to? Because 4 of the top 5 biggest companies in the US were created less than 25 years ago. Of Europes 100 biggest companies not a single one was founded in the last 40 years. Is your argument really a lack of innovation during a pandemic that was almost resolved by a small german company? I can't take 'biggest' companies as a serious argument considering Tesla is worth 10x more than VW based on marketcap while delivering 10% of the vehicles that VW delivers - market caps are a big joke and of no real use to compare a company's real worth. Naturally, tech companies are prevailing. If you look at the past 100 years in Europe we've had the continent be demolished for 40 years of them by the biggest wars known to mankind and yet we're still the 2nd biggest economy. If you ask me this is quite astonishing considering these processes take decades to revert. There are no real massive internal issues, the ' immigrants problem' in Europe has existed for the past 2000 year - it's nothing new. There is a sense of solidarity and community, all of these are lacking in the US at the moment. critically Baal is not comparing companies, he's comparing regions. you'd do better to explain why market caps in US markets are not comparable to those in european markets. but tesla aside afaik apple, google, amazon, etc. have sick gross revenues. anyway okay it's natural tech companies prosper. why are tech companies all US then...?

American universities and the state have a very close relationship with big business. Especially Stanford, which was basically designed to churn out tech developers. Stanford is allowed (by law) to steal your invention and profits if they catch you inventing it on their computers...so it's natural that they devote all their resources into having a very close relationship with silicon valley. Perhaps this cultural difference explains why places like CERN (EU) didn't turn the invention of the internet into some big business. There is a lot of brain drain towards America. Venture capitalism has certainly had some effect in the case of google and facebook. Then there are political rules. Microsoft basically proved that anti-trust laws are for show in the US. Intellectual property rights are the most ridiculous form of protectionism in terms of how much they have been abused.

There are successful tech companies in SK, Japan, China. None would have succeeded without protectionism; they would all have been bought out by Google or some other monopoly long ago if it wasn't for that.

The tech companies all have justifiable market capitalizations imo, surveillance capitalism is still in its infancy stages, and if no one breaks up the monopolies then all these companies will do is continue to grow. There is zero competition here at this point, their market cap is entirely determined by what happens in politics.

On January 09 2022 06:19 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2022 11:44 Spitfiree wrote:   On January 08 2022 00:49 Baalim wrote:   On January 07 2022 19:24 Spitfiree wrote: Why would Europe be fucked? Cause there are strong social structures in place that everyone contributes to? Because 4 of the top 5 biggest companies in the US were created less than 25 years ago. Of Europes 100 biggest companies not a single one was founded in the last 40 years. Is your argument really a lack of innovation during a pandemic that was almost resolved by a small german company? I can't take 'biggest' companies as a serious argument considering Tesla is worth 10x more than VW based on marketcap while delivering 10% of the vehicles that VW delivers - market caps are a big joke and of no real use to compare a company's real worth. Naturally, tech companies are prevailing. If you look at the past 100 years in Europe we've had the continent be demolished for 40 years of them by the biggest wars known to mankind and yet we're still the 2nd biggest economy. If you ask me this is quite astonishing considering these processes take decades to revert. There are no real massive internal issues, the ' immigrants problem' in Europe has existed for the past 2000 year - it's nothing new. There is a sense of solidarity and community, all of these are lacking in the US at the moment. top 100 companies is a LOT and if Baal's fact is true it's quite interesting

of course it's not true, but he has a point since most of them are indeed old companies

it's also 3 out of 5 companies that are less than <50 years in top5 of the US, he s slightly overexaggerating

Also it doesn't mean much since companies like Siemens and Nokia that are 150+ years old used to dominate the tech market

The issue that they've had is that they had no real domestic competition, like it exists in the Sillicon Valley where you have hundreds if not thousands of companies/start ups that try to beat you any given day... it's not regulation. This isn't a topic you can dumb down to a single reason, there are multitude of factors.

Sure, Tesla is an outlier, it's also an outlier that can take down the entire market by itself since they are that fragile.

It's somewhat hilarious that Apple is 3T$ Company and Amazon and Microsoft are valued less considering pretty much any modern business runs because of the cloud services they provide. People do not understand how dependant we are on Microsoft and Amazon nowadays, it's scary.

I looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_companies_by_revenue and by checking something like 10 names from the top 100 I've found 4 that were founded less than 40 years ago. (not that 40% of them are younger than that - most are in fact old, many are more than 100 years old, but if you say 'not a single one' then that fact should really be correct.)

I do invest in european and even scandinavian stocks o_O (or fonds)

But im not sure if it is a good idea lol

Well, it's a matter of when the Western World collapses and how.

Baal: Out of 100 companies none bla bla bla....
Spitfire: COVID was almost solved by a small german company (wtf), also TSLA is overvalued
Drone: It isn't 0 out of 100 its in fact 4 out of 100.

lol... the European economy is stale, Europe isn't a young vibrant entrepeneur with a bright future, Europe is an old retired man living in comfort off his rents.

We all know this, we can debate if sacrificing the economic freedom in favor of societal well being and that it will bring the stability required for the economy to work, but you have to be aware of it, people move to Europe to get a safe well paid job with benefits, not to start a business or build things.

btw I suppose "big" is ambiguous but on the subject of stale economies marketcap > profit > revenue.

I mean it's a pretty comfortable life. I'd much rather work 30 hour weeks with reasonable money than 40+ hour weeks making 33%+ more, and I'd much rather have the drug addicts and lazy jerks get some money so they can scrape by than have them be reliant on crime to get by.

Anyway I'm not really commenting on the state of europe or whatever (not like 'europe' is one big homogeneous region, the norwegian sovereign wealth fund is gonna do just fine unless the 'impending collapse' is totally global), just correcting a wrong statement. You could've just said 'almost none' instead of 'not a single one' in bold and it'd be all fine and dandy.

USA is only 1 competent fascist away from really setting things in motion more than they already are. There are plenty to pick from for the next election. If the USA goes down I don't know what exactly that will entail. Maybe a Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund stays strong. Maybe you guys will be ok. Maybe, since I am tall with long blonde hair and a beard there is a Viking Rule in Norway so I could come and immigrate and be a lazy jerk collecting tax payer money?

Considering the amount of oil Norway has and where they're located they'll be just fine regardless of any geopolitical shenanigans.

I don't think people understand how the 'collecting taxpayer money' in Europe works. Literally, nobody will give you money for free if you're an immigrant that doesn't attempt to participate in society.

Also the US can/will only lose its global leader position because of internal conflicts, it's quite obvious and their population gets more and more polarized by the minute. That won't lead to anything good. I'm not sure if it was always like that and we only see it now because of the internet or things are just much worse nowadays

Doesn't matter how much oil you have, it's about who are your friends and who are your enemies. Look at Venezuela.

On January 11 2022 09:15 Spitfiree wrote: I don't think people understand how the 'collecting taxpayer money' in Europe works. Literally, nobody will give you money for free if you're an immigrant that doesn't attempt to participate in society.

so you think in germany, britain, france, sweden, if an immigrant or refugee can't find work they end up on the streets, or they get kicked right out, or...?

On January 11 2022 19:22 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On January 11 2022 09:15 Spitfiree wrote: I don't think people understand how the 'collecting taxpayer money' in Europe works. Literally, nobody will give you money for free if you're an immigrant that doesn't attempt to participate in society. so you think in germany, britain, france, sweden, if an immigrant or refugee can't find work they end up on the streets, or they get kicked right out, or...?

is that what i said?