Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 342

The Russian invasion of Afghanistan is a pretty good example of instigation. In that particular case it's on record, Zibigniew Brezinski explicitly stated that the goal was to lure Russia into a war that they couldn't win. The US // NATO, and Australia are doing the exact same thing with China atm, which also has the same predictable consequences of escalating towards a serious reaction from China. All states with any military power at all are hyper-aggressive about territory, and the public for the most part does not pay attention to, or have the view of what goes on inside the white house, kremlin, or wherever. There are people like Daniell Ellsberg who did have inside knowledge and the nuclear threat is far more serious and risky than what most people think, at least according to his insider perspective.

So, why not have like a 3 or 4 or 5 hour debate on vaccines and then forget about it until there is another lab leak?

I'm sure I would learn something.

Debating is a white supremacist tactic

On June 23 2023 03:48 RiKD wrote: So, why not have like a 3 or 4 or 5 hour debate on vaccines and then forget about it until there is another lab leak? I'm sure I would learn something.

It's really easy to beat an expert in a debate on lots of topics. You just hammer them with strawmans and they have to spend the whole time explaining that's not what their position is.

You can also hammer them references to works that no ones ever read or memorized. There's all sorts of techniques like that.

Physicists don't debate Michio Kaku, they just point out his bullshit. Some of their video's have lots of views. It's a way more fruitful endeavor.
There are videos of physicists singing songs about why String theorists are wrong and explaining why he is wrong while crushing video games.
It's pretty entertaining.

On issues like religion then sure I guess debates can be fruitful as you're arguing with someone that has a potato for a brain.
I watched part of Dawkins vs Medhi Hassan, and I thought Dawkins was not doing that great (or as great as he should be) until Hassan admitted to believing in flying horses.

I listened to the RFK Joe Rogan episode where he ranted about vaccines causing autism for over an hour and I was left thoroughly unconvinced. Imo if he couldn't even beat an empty chair then any credible vaccine scientist should be able to mop the floor with him. I just don't understand the need to dodge a debate over this, especially when you get $600,000 for your charity. I think his reasoning was something like he didn't want to give a platform to the anti-vaccine conspiracies by engaging with them. I can assure him there's not a single person in the world thinking "Wow these Joe Rogan and RFK Jr guys must be something if they got the legendary Peter Fucking Hotez to debate them." If you're worried about conspiracies spreading by giving them a spotlight I'm quite sure conspiracies spread even harder when you try to shun and deplatform them because that just becomes part of the conspiracy.

Lets be clear here.

De-platforming is defined as aggressively removing someone from discussion, such as demonetizing, or removing them from a popular website.

Ignoring someone in this context will be defined as the act of not giving someone large media attention.

Under these definitions, the vast majority of the people in the world are ignored, but not de-platformed. I think antivaxxer's should be treated the same way that most people are, they ought to be ignored, and not de-platformed. Going on Joe Rogan is probably over 10 lifetimes worth of media exposure for your average person.

I can't measure this or anything, but I suspect that a lot of grifters are quite conscious of how wide-spread criticism of them is quite helpful. It can boost them on the youtube algorithm. In the end it increases the chances of people clicking on their videos. That's basically the whole strategy behind those trying to generate outrage through identity politics, imo.

On June 23 2023 20:28 Stroggoz wrote: Lets be clear here. De-platforming is defined as aggressively removing someone from discussion, such as demonetizing, or removing them from a popular website. Ignoring someone in this context will be defined as the act of not giving someone large media attention. Under these definitions, the vast majority of the people in the world are ignored, but not de-platformed. I think antivaxxer's should be treated the same way that most people are, they ought to be ignored, and not de-platformed. Going on Joe Rogan is probably over 10 lifetimes worth of media exposure for your average person. I can't measure this or anything, but I suspect that a lot of grifters are quite conscious of how wide-spread criticism of them is quite helpful. It can boost them on the youtube algorithm. In the end it increases the chances of people clicking on their videos. That's basically the whole strategy behind those trying to generate outrage through identity politics, imo.

The beef started when Peter Hotez tweeted "Spotify Has Stopped Even Sort of Trying to Stem Joe Rogan’s Vaccine Misinformation. It’s really true ?@annamerlan just awful. And from all the online attacks I’m receiving after this absurd podcast, it’s clear many actually believe this nonsense"

Calling out Spotify for allowing Joe Rogan to spread vaccine misinformation is not "ignoring" them by any means. Calling out the platform, Spotify, is only useful if you're trying to pressure them to censure Rogan in some way. People have been trying to de-platform Rogan for a while but doing so would be a long shot obviously.

I've never seen an expert lose against a crazy idiot ever, could you please prive examples?

You mentioned that Medhi Hassan was doing fine until he admitted to believing in flying horses LOL, well yes thats precisely how you defeat idiots in debates, RFK seems to be against ALL vaccines not just the Covid one, so it will be easy to destroy him regarding vaccines everyone has and acknowledges as good.

I dont know if they debate Michu Kaku but I've seen debates with Deepak Chopra when he is absolutely embarassed by actual phycisists, to the point where the audience laugh at Chopra.



Debate isn't perfect but its 100 times better than to publicly run away from it, and claim they are conspiracy theorists that should be censored cementing the idea into anybody who is remotely suspicious of vaccines that their fears were right, people aren't going to read scientific journals and unlike with physics, you actually need the compliance regarding vaccination, and Dr Hotez probably has done much harm to the adoption of vaccination with this than anything positive he has done in his career.

in before Le Pen wins in France and we see the sprout of right wing nationalism in Europe, the progressives pushed too hard and now have ushered the scourge, thanks you morons.

centrist nationalism*

Viva le France
Viva le Europe
vivre vivre vivre
Ciel Ciel Ciel

Maybe the French elite did not see the protests getting that out of hand that fast. We'll see how it ends up. The liklihood that everyone goes on vacation in August seems high to me. Just give everyone a case of Gauloises or Gitanes and subsidize red wine some more... No, the liklehood is there are a boatload of issues and I don't know what is going to happen.

On July 02 2023 16:03 Santafairy wrote: centrist nationalism*

I remember googling her long ago when Eri said she was a fascist and I saw stuff about his dad and ties to actual fascist but she seems to have kicked his dad and others out and she is pro gay marriage and abortions so you might be right.

Macron threatened to shut down the social media sites in France. You know, for safety.

Biden's going to appeal a federal court ruling that no longer allows the government to coordinate with social media on which posts to censor as minsinformation

The Congressional Progressive Caucus is renewing it's efforts to pass legislation to add 4 new supreme court justices to outnumber the 6 conservative justices on the court

Of course we also remember Trudeau last year freezing the bank accounts of people affiliated with the trucker protests


Shutting down social media sites, censoring public posts as misinformation, packing courts, freezing bank accounts... it's all a small price to pay to make sure the fascists don't get elected!

On July 02 2023 02:04 Baalim wrote: in before Le Pen wins in France and we see the sprout of right wing nationalism in Europe, the progressives pushed too hard and now have ushered the scourge, thanks you morons.

bitch a major vatnik. can the french right be as retarded as the maga people and see putin as a good guy? i think she got like 12 million euro loan from some russian bank and gave pro russia speeches at european parlament and wanted france to leave nato. if a cunt with that history gets elected in this situation, i lose all hope.

On July 06 2023 09:37 blackjacki2 wrote: Macron threatened to shut down the social media sites in France. You know, for safety. Biden's going to appeal a federal court ruling that no longer allows the government to coordinate with social media on which posts to censor as minsinformation The Congressional Progressive Caucus is renewing it's efforts to pass legislation to add 4 new supreme court justices to outnumber the 6 conservative justices on the court Of course we also remember Trudeau last year freezing the bank accounts of people affiliated with the trucker protests Shutting down social media sites, censoring public posts as misinformation, packing courts, freezing bank accounts... it's all a small price to pay to make sure the fascists don't get elected!

https://myind.net/Home/viewArticle/fr...y-on-suspects-through-digital-devices

Progressives have become extremely authoritarian in the past few years.

Yeah I saw that one too. Wild

Did you read the article though? Literal quote: the bill has come under fire from the left (...). The progressives are the ones opposing it.

Ya Macron is not a progressive and never has been. He's neoliberal, and neoliberals gave the world 40 years of sharp regress. Same goes for Biden, Trudeu, and other similar fakes who try to craft an image of progressiveness for themselves. It's our rotten culture or lack of it that allows people to buy into it so easily. People on the right often correctly criticize these fakes for being all rhetoric, virtue signaling, ect.