Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 72

Didnt read the thread but Nolan seems on point.

If the wall isn't built trumpsters are done.

On September 14 2017 21:01 nolan wrote: Man, we gotta bring this thread back. Big Twitter bombs today. So some Dems came out on twitter and said they reached a deal with Trump to cancel the wall. Trump responds with this Show nested quote + No deal was made last night on DACA. Massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent. Would be subject to vote.   The WALL, which is already under construction in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls, will continue to be built. and and later this   Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....   ...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security From what I can gather via certain corners of the internet, his base seems pretty pissed. If he screws the wall up, I'd say no chance he gets re-elected. If he lets DACA get written into law I think his base is gonna be done with him. Furthermore, what can the Democrats really offer in exchange? More funding? They're not going to sign off on a travel ban with Somalia no matter what, so I really can't see what compromise could possibly be made. It's funny too, because I consider myself somewhat of an economic lefty with regards to pro-Union and low/medium skill labor protectionism, which naturally means harsher immigration laws, but a lot of Democrat voters seem to hold this completely conflicting attitude that you can have a $15+ minimum wage effectively while also having very open borders. Maybe these guys should live in Rio de Janeiro for awhile to see the effects of Mass Migration in the low skill labor sector on the micro-scale.

Not his base, but the leaders of the base like Coulter, the voters dont care about DACA, they care about the wall and I think he realizes the importance of it in terms of symbolism so I think he will get it done even fi its halfassed and useless.

But yeah its not news the left doesnt understand economics, it is obvious that having open borders and social safety net is economical suicide, only libertarians can afford to have loose borders

Open borders != DACA

Going after working young immigrants who keep clean criminal records is incredibly stupid and bad for the economy. Besides that they pay taxes, it would be extremely costly to deport them all, not to mention of course that its pretty heartless to deport people who grew up here.

So, amazingly, Trump at least appears to be doing one thing right, but given that he's mentally unstable anything can change in an instant.

mentally unstable

as poker players shouldnt we understand that this is simply an image Trump wants to hold?

On September 15 2017 04:58 wobbly_au wrote: mentally unstable as poker players shouldnt we understand that this is simply an image Trump wants to hold?

Maybe, but wanting to be viewed as mentally unstable and actually being mentally unstable aren't mutually exclusive. I would even argue they go hand in hand quite often.

maga baby

Who cares about the lolaments happening in the US government atm. DACA will just be something Trump ignores throughout his whole presidential term and the wall will obviously not be built. ( by "ignores" I mean he ll just say some retarded politically correct stuff that will delay any actual actions)


What I don't understand is, why is North Korea provoking a war? I don't really understand the rational motives behind it. The UN "restrictions" are laughable as usual, the UN cannot do shit to NK, unless China actually stops trading/aiding them, which obviously won't happen cause that would mean they're forfeiting the geopolitical control over that area.

Meanwhile, there were a few explosions in a metro station in London, no casualties though, and its still uncertain what exactly happened. If it were ISIS, it would only show how weak they've gotten as they didn't even do an efficient attack.

On September 15 2017 15:36 Spitfiree wrote: Who cares about the lolaments happening in the US government atm. DACA will just be something Trump ignores throughout his whole presidential term and the wall will obviously not be built. ( by "ignores" I mean he ll just say some retarded politically correct stuff that will delay any actual actions)

He already removed DACA (but grandfathered in ppl here via it who are 33 or younger iirc), and as I understand it they now have 6 months to try and make it a law. I get mixed reviews on how likely it is to become a law, but it seems like most hot takes trend toward it being unlikely.

On September 15 2017 15:36 Spitfiree wrote: Who cares about the lolaments happening in the US government atm. DACA will just be something Trump ignores throughout his whole presidential term and the wall will obviously not be built. ( by "ignores" I mean he ll just say some retarded politically correct stuff that will delay any actual actions) What I don't understand is, why is North Korea provoking a war? I don't really understand the rational motives behind it. The UN "restrictions" are laughable as usual, the UN cannot do shit to NK, unless China actually stops trading/aiding them, which obviously won't happen cause that would mean they're forfeiting the geopolitical control over that area. Meanwhile, there were a few explosions in a metro station in London, no casualties though, and its still uncertain what exactly happened. If it were ISIS, it would only show how weak they've gotten as they didn't even do an efficient attack.

Authoritarian regimes require a strong image of a threat, usually a foreign one, so the US plays that role, afterall, the North Koreans remember the US as murderous invaders, so all Kim has to do to remain in power is painting the US as threat and keep growing his weapons of mass descrution program, Hussein gave up his weapons and a few years later he was hanged and his family murdered, Kim wont do that mistake.

Yeah, all of that is true but still doesn't explain launching missiles. He's been creating the image of the US being the bad guys for decades. While he does need to present "the bad guys" to the population, he shouldn't be provoking them to the point where they bomb the shit out of them.

which is why he's not actually gonna launch a first strike. But he's painting the US as the superdevil and making the case 'and I am able to defend you from him'. Keep supporting glorious leader and nobody can harm us'.

On September 16 2017 09:29 Spitfiree wrote: Yeah, all of that is true but still doesn't explain launching missiles. He's been creating the image of the US being the bad guys for decades. While he does need to present "the bad guys" to the population, he shouldn't be provoking them to the point where they bomb the shit out of them.

Of course not. We shouldn't be treating KJU, Assad, Trump, Putin, etc. as evil geniuses with masterplans they are simply lunatics.

you really don't have to be an evil genius to plan out world domination. sometimes people who set out to dominate the world, or the middle east are quite stupid. george bush for example. others can be more intelligent evil geniuses, for example leibniz who is one of the smartest people in history was basically like littlefinger off game of thrones, going around from as a flatterer of the court and trying to convince people to invade the middle east (unsuccesffuly).

And in our society, you don't have to be an evil genius to control the minds of large groups of people and engage in social control, you just need to do courses in applied psychology at university and get a job at a public relations firm. It's just that no one calls it social control because being honest about what you do is hard.

What KJU is doing is clearly a conscious effort for social control, this is a tactic that was recognized to be effective since classical greece, but to the leadership in north korea KJU is basically a perfect human being and morally superior to the public in every way so how could social control be wrong?

so i mean politicians have complex and varied personalities just like ordinary people, but they tend to be more on the amoral side.

A referendum was held in Kurdistan territories asking the people whether they want to form a "new", independent country. Obviously, that comes with a lot of negative comments from Turkey, Iraq and Iran... however there's a huge chance that Kurdistan will happen and here's why I believe so:

Basically funded by the USA throughout their fight with ISIS, they were the ones that demolished the organization... well mainly.

Erdogan seems to be going out of control and the USA cannot lose their leverage in that region, Turkey is key to the geopolitical influence. They might be a huge NATO partner to the USA, but it is not like Erdogan's politics have been left unnoticed, the USA does need someone to be breathing at the back of his neck. Question is ... would Erdogan really go into Iraqi territory with his armed forces and if he does, how will the USA react to that?

Iraqis opinion simply doesn't matter, even though it's their territory. Kurds are the ones that freed them from ISIS so...

Here s the real problem though -> Iran. Trump constantly talks about how the deal with Iran is a joke and etc etc. Obviously, Trump's opinion on the topic doesn't matter, however, him reacting that way is definitely "scripted" to serve long-term purposes The whole relationship is quite tense there. I don't think Iranian actions would be predictable. I wouldn't even be surprised to the whole situation escalating tremendously with the USA invading Iran at the worst scenario. What makes the most sense to me, though, is the USA pushing Iranians to sit quietly and not touch Kurdistan, otherwise, the agreement will be revoked and new sanctions will be applied. The question is will Iranians care?


In all honesty though, even though I know a potential Kurdistan would ignite new never-ending wars in the region, I still believe it should happen. There's probably around 40 million people of Kurdish inheritance that have been massacred for decades. The only way for this to stop someday is by giving them a country of their own.

Also catalunia is about to have a referending seeking independence from Spain and Spain has been going absolutely authoritarian on them stealing ballots threatening dozens of governments officials with jail etc, I'm surprised how far they are willing to go to stop this referendum.

I dont get why Cataluña wants its independence so badly for so long

going independent will be quite useless though, as they will practically be isolated by everyone. Obv, politicians will be politicians and the Spanish government usually dealt with them by simply giving them a bunch of more money in the budget, but this time things escalated. I doubt Catalonia will ever happen though if that happens - Spain will cease to exist, the Basques will get their independence too

On September 26 2017 04:37 Baalim wrote: Also catalunia is about to have a referending seeking independence from Spain and Spain has been going absolutely authoritarian on them stealing ballots threatening dozens of governments officials with jail etc, I'm surprised how far they are willing to go to stop this referendum. I dont get why Cataluña wants its independence so badly for so long

The Catalans seem to think that they will be ridiculously rich because they are a tourist center. They also were mostly the only region that went with the full socialism party (Podemos) last election and seem to lean a lot more lefty than the rest of Spain.

On September 26 2017 08:13 Spitfiree wrote: going independent will be quite useless though, as they will practically be isolated by everyone.

That is the main selling point for non separation, but right now I cant think of an example of this happening, a state gaining peaceful independence and being economically ostracized