Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 77

On March 25 2018 05:26 Santafairy wrote: >blumpf insulted rocket man there's gonna be a war oh my god what an irresponsible cunt >blumpf congratulated putin oh my god what an irresponsible cunt

Yes, you can be an irresponsible cunt in both cases, there's no inconsistency here. Don't needlessly insult psychopathic dictators, but don't congratulate them either, its just basic human decency.

On March 25 2018 10:03 Spitfiree wrote: Anyway you can't simply send Russian diplomats home, apply sanctions and kill the conversation with the country.

I don't think anyone is really arguing that the US cutoff communication, and even at the height of the original cold war there were various back channels between the two countries. Though I do have to admit that expelling diplomats is kind of weak and seems more symbolic than anything. Really surprised you believe congratulating Putin is actually a good idea though. Unlike others in this thread you seem to actually acknowledge Putin's crimes.

On March 25 2018 17:02 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 25 2018 05:26 Santafairy wrote: >blumpf insulted rocket man there's gonna be a war oh my god what an irresponsible cunt >blumpf congratulated putin oh my god what an irresponsible cunt Yes, you can be an irresponsible cunt in both cases, there's no inconsistency here. Don't needlessly insult psychopathic dictators, but don't congratulate them either, its just basic human decency.

you're swearing a lot to signal to us how indignant you are and how much you care which is nice

but which is it really? just basic decency or he's an irresponsible cunt and starting WW3?

On March 27 2018 17:26 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On March 25 2018 17:02 NMcNasty wrote:   On March 25 2018 05:26 Santafairy wrote: >blumpf insulted rocket man there's gonna be a war oh my god what an irresponsible cunt >blumpf congratulated putin oh my god what an irresponsible cunt Yes, you can be an irresponsible cunt in both cases, there's no inconsistency here. Don't needlessly insult psychopathic dictators, but don't congratulate them either, its just basic human decency. you're swearing a lot to signal to us how indignant you are and how much you care which is nice but which is it really? just basic decency or he's an irresponsible cunt and starting WW3?

Your posts are a garbled mess. Be happy you wasted 5 minutes of my time trying to decipher your gibberish before I thought better of seriously responding.

I prefer a leader that prioritizes diplomacy, economics and descalate military tension over making meaningless petty gestures towards world leaders. Xi Jinpig just became China's dictator so should Trump also shun him?

heres an interesting paralell that happened in Mexico:

Our president has an abismal approval rate and is close to finishing his term at the time Trump said the thing about rapist mexicans crossing the border, as you can imagine Mexico hates Trump's guts, so our president could have given a speech talking shit about Trump and he would have been a national hero, but no, he knew Trump is retarded egomaniac that could punish Mexico if he embarassed him, so instead he did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

On March 28 2018 01:18 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 27 2018 17:26 Santafairy wrote:   On March 25 2018 17:02 NMcNasty wrote:   On March 25 2018 05:26 Santafairy wrote: >blumpf insulted rocket man there's gonna be a war oh my god what an irresponsible cunt >blumpf congratulated putin oh my god what an irresponsible cunt Yes, you can be an irresponsible cunt in both cases, there's no inconsistency here. Don't needlessly insult psychopathic dictators, but don't congratulate them either, its just basic human decency. you're swearing a lot to signal to us how indignant you are and how much you care which is nice but which is it really? just basic decency or he's an irresponsible cunt and starting WW3? Your posts are a garbled mess. Be happy you wasted 5 minutes of my time trying to decipher your gibberish before I thought better of seriously responding.

that is funny actually, I don't think reading is that difficult, but thank you for making the right decision and not responding

Is there any actual evidence presented to the public on the Skripal case yet? I certainly can't find any. Its just some guys pointing fingers at other guys. Meanwhile, with the diplomatic crisis and the pull of ambassadors of football from Russia 2018 the whole situation looks very much like the '36 Olympics following all of the events to '38. They better resolve this shit quickly. At least this time there's no geopolitical and social agenda on the side.

Furthemore this is causing a split in the EU as half the nations including Germany simply won't put down sanctions on Russia. I'm surprised others follow the UK considering how politically retarded the UK has been the past few years.

On top of that Skripal was already caught by Russia in 2004 and imprisoned, later they traded him. History shows that anyone that challenges Putin's authority simply dies e.g. Boris Nemcov, who potentially had the chance of winning elections against him. If they wanted Skripal dead, they would've simply sent him to a prison in Syberia where he'd die of "natural causes" aka the insane conditions he'd have to live under long time ago. Only reason they'd not reveal evidence of Russia actually killing him is if he continued being a spy and had some internal network in Russia which provided him with intelligence which he gave the UK. If that's the case then there's no way the West will ever reveal the evidence as they'd be essentially giving the information to Russia to clear those assets out. Then again I've probably watched too many spy movies.

Either way I'm not fine with blindly trusting nation leaders with no proof. If we simply ignore all conspiracy theories, Russia has no reason whatsoever to kill the agent, especially considering that relations between Russia and the West are already quite stressed out, which is REALLY hurting Russia's economy. Like the only thing they have as an advantage is that they provide the whole continent with natural gas, which is not a leverage they could abuse much, cause if they stop the supply they'd lose so much money it might be a suicide.

On March 28 2018 06:37 Baalim wrote: I prefer a leader that prioritizes diplomacy, economics and descalate military tension over making meaningless petty gestures towards world leaders. Xi Jinpig just became China's dictator so should Trump also shun him?

Trump is already starting a needless trade war with China. I think you actually can make the case that China's human rights and environmental abuses are severe enough to warrant public condemnation, but that's nothing on the scale of murdering foreign citizens and invading countries.

Our president has an abismal approval rate and is close to finishing his term at the time Trump said the thing about rapist mexicans crossing the border, as you can imagine Mexico hates Trump's guts, so our president could have given a speech talking shit about Trump and he would have been a national hero, but no, he knew Trump is retarded egomaniac that could punish Mexico if he embarassed him, so instead he did the right thing and kept his mouth shut.

Yeah I thought Nieto came across pretty well in his exchanges with Trump all things considering, but you can't really compare making up racist stories to murdering people. In any case, I don't really think its appropriate for a head of state to throw childish insults at other heads of state (or anyone for that matter).

On March 28 2018 12:03 Spitfiree wrote: Is there any actual evidence presented to the public on the Skripal case yet? I certainly can't find any. Its just some guys pointing fingers at other guys.

UK labs found the nerve agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent, awaiting confirmation from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_the_Prohibition_of_Chemical_Weapons.

Seems like its over 95% that this is Russia, though admittedly that's not necessarily a direct tie to Putin. Of course regardless of what shows up Russia will cry 'contaminated sample' or 'British plot'.

Furthemore this is causing a split in the EU as half the nations including Germany simply won't put down sanctions on Russia.

Seems like a lot of countries, including Germany, are waiting for independent verification and/or are mulling over what to do.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/141434

That would be in addition to sanctions that already exist from the war in Ukraine.

On March 28 2018 15:45 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2018 06:37 Baalim wrote: I prefer a leader that prioritizes diplomacy, economics and descalate military tension over making meaningless petty gestures towards world leaders. Xi Jinpig just became China's dictator so should Trump also shun him? Trump is already starting a needless trade war with China. I think you actually can make the case that China's human rights and environmental abuses are severe enough to warrant public condemnation, but that's nothing on the scale of murdering foreign citizens and invading countries.   Our president has an abismal approval rate and is close to finishing his term at the time Trump said the thing about rapist mexicans crossing the border, as you can imagine Mexico hates Trump's guts, so our president could have given a speech talking shit about Trump and he would have been a national hero, but no, he knew Trump is retarded egomaniac that could punish Mexico if he embarassed him, so instead he did the right thing and kept his mouth shut. Yeah I thought Nieto came across pretty well in his exchanges with Trump all things considering, but you can't really compare making up racist stories to murdering people. In any case, I don't really think its appropriate for a head of state to throw childish insults at other heads of state (or anyone for that matter).

I think you can (should, probably) make the argument that China's treatment of Tibet is as bad/worse than anything Putin's Russia is guilty of.

are only trade wars needless? not also trade deficits?

On March 28 2018 16:01 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2018 12:03 Spitfiree wrote: Is there any actual evidence presented to the public on the Skripal case yet? I certainly can't find any. Its just some guys pointing fingers at other guys. UK labs found the nerve agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent, awaiting confirmation from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_the_Prohibition_of_Chemical_Weapons. Seems like its over 95% that this is Russia, though admittedly that's not necessarily a direct tie to Putin. Of course regardless of what shows up Russia will cry 'contaminated sample' or 'British plot'.   Furthemore this is causing a split in the EU as half the nations including Germany simply won't put down sanctions on Russia. Seems like a lot of countries, including Germany, are waiting for independent verification and/or are mulling over what to do. https://euobserver.com/foreign/141434 That would be in addition to sanctions that already exist from the war in Ukraine.

Didn't know about the OPCW. Germany are waiting indeed, the sanctions on Crimea invasion are a whole different topic. Again, the OPCW could confirm this, and if 95% of the Novichok is in Russia there is sitll that 5%. Putin could've simply killed the guy when they caught him originally 14 years ago. They caught him in Russia, he was even in prison. The World Cup is in 2 months in Russia, on top of being the biggest Sports Event (yes its bigger than the Olympics) its also a good time for politics.

It makes absolutely ZERO sense for Putin to kill him right now, unless something extremely urgent has happened, but we don't live in a movie. They obviously had track of him already, even thought I doubt he was even hiding (If I were him, I would, considering I'm pretty sure Russia had killed another defected spy a decade or more ago somewhere in Europe). It's a political suicide to kill him right at this very moment.

While all of this is happening, Germany approved Nord Stream 2, which is another gas pipelines supplying Europe with Russian gas, which basically means, oh yeah we hate you so much, but lets make ourselves more dependant on you by having one more gas pipeline yo. Official data from January shows that 40% of the gas in Europe is from Gazprom alone already.

Either way, there are some major political games going on right now and I really don't like where shit is headed. Putin is closing the US embassy in St Petersburg.

Trump is leading a trade war with China. China is gonna contest their dominance with PetroYuan. If PetroYuan becomes a reality and it takes a large chunk of the USA's oil trade, the USA will be extremely fucked. I'm also guessing Trump's cabinet was aware of that, thats why he went with protectionism measures and he prob knew the PetroYuan might become a thing long before any of us.

At first glance it feels like Russia is the one getting fucked all over the place due to the Skripal case. However meanwhile the American society is split due to shitton of issues especially the last one being the anti-gun rallies led by the students (imagine how retarded your politicians must be of students have more sense than them).

We're at the end of the 100 years cycle bois and its time to contest the global leader spot of the USA. Hopefully it will all happen through a trade war and not an actual war. I hope I'm wrong and we've outgrown the long cycle theory as it always ends with a massive war, but history shows otherwise and we're human so....and on top of that it very much looks like China and Russia got tired of USA's shit.
(I'm talking about an "event" that will last the next 10-25 years tho don't get me wrong, this process is gonna be long af, just look at China trying to close the gap with other nations and gain their support etc.)

On March 28 2018 15:45 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 28 2018 06:37 Baalim wrote: I prefer a leader that prioritizes diplomacy, economics and descalate military tension over making meaningless petty gestures towards world leaders. Xi Jinpig just became China's dictator so should Trump also shun him? Trump is already starting a needless trade war with China. I think you actually can make the case that China's human rights and environmental abuses are severe enough to warrant public condemnation, but that's nothing on the scale of murdering foreign citizens and invading countries.   Our president has an abismal approval rate and is close to finishing his term at the time Trump said the thing about rapist mexicans crossing the border, as you can imagine Mexico hates Trump's guts, so our president could have given a speech talking shit about Trump and he would have been a national hero, but no, he knew Trump is retarded egomaniac that could punish Mexico if he embarassed him, so instead he did the right thing and kept his mouth shut. Yeah I thought Nieto came across pretty well in his exchanges with Trump all things considering, but you can't really compare making up racist stories to murdering people. In any case, I don't really think its appropriate for a head of state to throw childish insults at other heads of state (or anyone for that matter).

And what is the correlation between the import tariffs and congratulating Putin?

Nieto didnt come off well, he is probably the most hated president in history (deservedly so) but he could have enjoyed a herooic moment with a meaningless gesture that woudl cost us in the long run, and is exactly what you want your president to do,

On March 30 2018 03:13 Baalim wrote: And what is the correlation between the import tariffs and congratulating Putin?

You brought up China, the point is Trump has directed a ton of hostility to China already for all the wrong reasons.

Nieto didnt come off well, he is probably the most hated president in history (deservedly so) but he could have enjoyed a herooic moment with a meaningless gesture that woudl cost us in the long run, and is exactly what you want your president to do,

For as awful as Trump is, he didn't order the murder of a Mexican citizen. Its just a completely different situation than with Russia. Do you believe the UK should have congratulated Putin?

On March 30 2018 14:37 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On March 30 2018 03:13 Baalim wrote: And what is the correlation between the import tariffs and congratulating Putin? You brought up China, the point is Trump has directed a ton of hostility to China already for all the wrong reasons.   Nieto didnt come off well, he is probably the most hated president in history (deservedly so) but he could have enjoyed a herooic moment with a meaningless gesture that woudl cost us in the long run, and is exactly what you want your president to do, For as awful as Trump is, he didn't order the murder of a Mexican citizen. Its just a completely different situation than with Russia. Do you believe the UK should have congratulated Putin?

I said that Xi Jinping just became a dictator, so I asked if you thought Trump should also shun because of it and you mentioned tariffs, you think the tariffs are because Xi Jinping became a dictator? or are you just talking random things?


I think state leaders should take decisions based on the best interest of the citizens, I dont think leaders should do gestures that jeopardize that only as a posture even if they want to or is warranted.

On March 30 2018 23:49 Baalim wrote: I said that Xi Jinping just became a dictator, so I asked if you thought Trump should also shun because of it and you mentioned tariffs

I responded that there were various legitimate reasons for putting pressure on China, but that's not really something worth discussing because we're already putting pressure on China for mostly bad reasons.

And obviously I completely disagree that its not in the interest of citizens of UK, US, and most EU to take a stand against Putin.

Damn the Novichok case is so insane on so many different levels.

Russia lost the vote to be included in the OPCW analysis which is to be expected. Whats funny though is that the only way OPCW can verify that it was Novichok that killed the defecated spy is... if they actually have a sample of the chemical weapon.

The UK basically blamed Russia instantly, without any evidence. Whats even worse is that best case scenario is that OPCW verifies it is Novichok that killed Skripal, meaning that the UK most likely had a sample of the weapon... or worst case it is not verified and there would be no actual proof which could potentially lead to an absolute clown fiesta in terms of diplomacy throughout whole Europe, countries pointing fingers at each other.

It never ceases to amaze me how big of monkeys could politicians be. It would've been sooo hard to do things step by step and lead an investigation first, then point fingers. Then again these same people are leaving the EU cause a clown told them immigrants are taking over the country, so I'm not really surprised.

Can someone explain to me the power mid terms have in the USA? What I've seen is that they are coming @ November together with elections of more than 30+ governors on top of them. Basically Democrats win those elections and Trump gets fucked, no? As the republicans are the ones that hold the Senate and Congress atm

Problem is that what’s up for election is mainly seats the democrats already have so there’s only a thin margin of potential gain. From what I’m reading it will take a miracle for dems to retake Senate and it will be hard to take the House.

anybody got a good article about the migrant kids being separated from their families? with all the super partisan bullshit is so hard to find an objective one that reports the facts