Politics thread (USA Elections 2016) - Page 86

crazy combination of poor eloquency and megalomanía... He could've just said something like archieved more than any administration in: the past decades/a long time/etc... an statemen he could have rode easily but no, he had to go and try to top Washinton and Franklin and Lincoln lol

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/362/6412/eaas9899.full.pdf

New study further proves that people fall more into traditional gender roles the more free the country is... big set back for the blank slate leftist ideology lol

Between the leftists and people like Ben Shapiro my mind is blowing how people fall for these idiotic beliefs trap. I wonder who s worse though, the leftist SJW which are retarded and dont know what they are talking about or Ben Shapiro using correct facts to swing his agenda but ignoring the facts that ruin it.

Like how can there still be people believing universal healthcare isnt the way to go??? All fucking facts show that its the best shit possible we've come up with until now, then again Shapiro is like "oooh but look at all the scandinavian and west european countries they are losing money there", which is true - e.g. in France pays 2k euro on average for a single patient. The US pays 8k$, I wonder who fucking has it worse.

The right are not even worth paying much attention to. Every 3 years or so you get another 'intellectual' claiming the universities are run by crazy left radicals, which is completely ridiculous. The latest 'sjw' variant of the story is a massive exaggeration. Universities have become increasingly corporatized, with administration positions going up while academic staff goes down. They are there to crush people through debt and make more money for the financial sector-as former president of harvard university lawrence summers would know. Nathan Robinson does a good job criticizing the 'dark web intellectuals' on his site current affairs, though, if anyone's interested. It's not even worth it though because they are just a distraction from things that matter.

What's worth paying attention to are the major issues that threaten human existence: climate change, and the threat of nuclear warfare, both of which has increased under Trump. (It has always been extremely high). The threat of nuclear warfare is cited by the atomic bulletin of scientists as the biggest existential threat risk increase in 2017 and this was before Trump got rid of a treaty banning mid-range missiles. Obama and Trump both stuck to the 1.2 trillion$ agreement to modernize america's nuclear program.

Yes, everyone on the right in america is worried about the deficit, or at least pretends to be. It could be eliminated by adopting a sane healthcare system that france or germany has. It could be more than eliminated by adopting a policy of full employment. (that would add $2trillion to the economy by dean bakers estimates). Doctors get paid almost double in america than other industrialized countries because they have protectionist labour practices, they dont let anyone practice medicine in america unless they have a particular qualification from an american or canadian university.

The blank slate ideology isn't totally leftist, remember the biggest critique of blank slate ideology in the 20th century was an anarcho syndacalist; noam chomsky. Both lenin and the behaviorists in capitalist societies rejected biology as having anything to do with a scientific theory of the mind. Actually stalin made teaching biology a death sentence, but promoting communism was punishable by death as well since 1917 in russia, lenin ridiculed 'left wing communism' and menshevism as an infantile disorder. He was a deviation from the left and identified as a right wing communist who wanted to implement a totalitarian state.

what is right wing communism?

On October 30 2018 14:23 Spitfiree wrote: Between the leftists and people like Ben Shapiro my mind is blowing how people fall for these idiotic beliefs trap. I wonder who s worse though, the leftist SJW which are retarded and dont know what they are talking about or Ben Shapiro using correct facts to swing his agenda but ignoring the facts that ruin it. Like how can there still be people believing universal healthcare isnt the way to go??? All fucking facts show that its the best shit possible we've come up with until now, then again Shapiro is like "oooh but look at all the scandinavian and west european countries they are losing money there", which is true - e.g. in France pays 2k euro on average for a single patient. The US pays 8k$, I wonder who fucking has it worse.

Im against universal healthcare for the same rason I'm against universal food, not because I want people to starve or die from curable illness obviously but because its simply wasted by the user, abused by the corporation and mismanaged by the state and leads to more starvation and bad healthcare than the alternative.


Why would you mention the US as capitalistic healthcare? the US has a heavily subsidized healthcare system and that is exactly why you see that price, remember that Martin asshole rising the price of the epipen from like 70 to 500 bucks because insurance will pay for it? yeah well that sums up the american healthcare system.

I'm guessing by right-wing communism he would mean communism under a dictatorship?

Anyway I dont see how you could say the american healthcare system is universal. There are people with existing conditions which are denied insurance for their medical conditions??? The insurance companies are private and are the ones to establish whether or not your're eligible for a certain type of insurance, they are essentially maximizing their profits which is cutthroat defitinition of capitalism

Medical expenses is one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy in the country, that is disgusting.

Also what are you talking about, how would universal healthcare be abused by a corporation? A corporation would have nothing to do with it. Yes, the state is going to abuse it, but that the lesser of two evils.

Wikipedia says the US is the only non universal healthcare system out of any industrial nation. It's government funded at 64% compared to France's 77% government funded. Average costs in US are $9403 per person while France is $4086.

I don't know enough about the healthcare system in America to comment, except that it appears to be an international scandal, and many countries considered to be 3rd world have universal health care while america does not. US Business has been trying to dominate healthcare systems in smaller countries like NZ with these so called trade agreements, introducing their IP laws.

There has been some interesting studies on patents and the arguments from business that they need the patents to mark up drug prices because it fuels innovation. Turns out that research and development spending has remained about the same for the private sector over the last 30 years or so while profits from patents have gone way up. (not to mention a lot of the research and development in biotechnology comes from the state sector). Intellectual property laws are another way of protecting private industry from cheap manufacturers of medicine in India selling them for about one hundredth of the price. The rents collected on these patents for medicine in the US are around $400 billion. (again, from research done by Dean Baker.)

It's always struck me as comical that business has argued for huge salaries to incentivize innovation while there are phd students at MIT doing cutting edge work for $25K stipends.

yes right wing communism is one under state dictatorship that was argued for by lenin, where a vanguard takes power and indoctrinates the masses. That was what lenin identified with.

On October 31 2018 11:19 Spitfiree wrote: Anyway I dont see how you could say the american healthcare system is universal. There are people with existing conditions which are denied insurance for their medical conditions??? The insurance companies are private and are the ones to establish whether or not your're eligible for a certain type of insurance, they are essentially maximizing their profits which is cutthroat defitinition of capitalism

Obamacare solved this problem. It wasn't very elegant, it basically just mandates that insurance companies accept people with pre-existing conditions without hiking their rates. Republicans cried about this for years, but when actually presented a chance to repeal it they knew, politically, they couldn't. Incredibly, Trump tweeted this today:

On October 31 2018 11:19 Spitfiree wrote: Anyway I dont see how you could say the american healthcare system is universal. There are people with existing conditions which are denied insurance for their medical conditions??? The insurance companies are private and are the ones to establish whether or not your're eligible for a certain type of insurance, they are essentially maximizing their profits which is cutthroat defitinition of capitalism Medical expenses is one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy in the country, that is disgusting. Also what are you talking about, how would universal healthcare be abused by a corporation? A corporation would have nothing to do with it. Yes, the state is going to abuse it, but that the lesser of two evils.

I didn't say the american healthcare system is universal did I? I said it is not remotely free market, healthcare is the biggest expenditure the US government has besides military... so its literally the 2nd industry the government is the most involved in and that is your example of a free helathcare system? lol.

How can corporations exploit subsidized healthcare? they do it constantly thats the reason of the ridiculous US healthcare prices, why do you think a fucking X-ray costs like 800 bucks while in the free market they cost like 30? magic?.

The specific mechanic of how to exploit it is fairly simple, in subsidized healthcare there isn't consumer choice... you dont get to chose if you want Pepto Bismol or Tums as antiacid, so the companies sales strategy isn't competing in prices, product development etc, their sales strategy is getting contracts with the government which is a recepeit for corruption, Pepto Bismol (procter and gamble) instead of spending money in advertisement will spend money in lobbying and bribes so that they sign a contract with the state as an anti-acid manufacturer... so they basically give tons of money to whoever makes that choice in the government and they can jack up the prices as high as they want, and thats how you get $100 antiacid and $400 X-rays.

And yes medical expenses is one of the biggest causes of bankrupcy, and that is caused BECAUSE of subsidizing, Mexico's healthcare system is way more free and we have less bankrupcies and its way cheaper unrelated to labor costs.

On October 31 2018 13:44 Stroggoz wrote: yes right wing communism is one under state dictatorship that was argued for by lenin, where a vanguard takes power and indoctrinates the masses.

left/right wing is about collectivism/individualism, so I suppose dictatorship was an ideology often found in right-wing ideology of the time like today's pro-life kind of stuff that in reality has absolutely nothing to do with left or right.



When you talk about right wing conspiracy do you mean that academia is in an organized and syncronized effort to destroy western civilization? if so I agree, but if you mean that the social sciences arent overall dominated by left wing ideology, that universities deplataform right wing speakers while no liberal ones are etc then I think you are wrong.

On October 31 2018 19:33 NMcNasty wrote: Democrats fought tooth and nail against Republicans for people with pre-existing conditions for a decade, and now Trump is arguing that he can do better without any kind of policy or even reasoning whatsoever.

It's a fucking joke that there is even a discussion about that, like just take care of the people that need taking care of and dont fucking discuss it, thats what bothers me the most... when politicians try to abuse on the weakest people in society and make themselves look "good" cause they are actually doing the right thing.



@Baal the very core of USA's problem is the "free" market of the insurance companies. If the state offers a government medical insurance, then whole industry would drop its cost-rate by shitton. Of course that they are getting drained atm, the whole system is built in a way for the government to get drained. Except Americans are so fucking dumb that the second the population hears something along the lines of "oh the state is infiltrating this sector" they think of socialism and Russia and bringing out their guns to shoot their fucking president. Also I don't believe the average person should be given the choice to choose between this and that in his treatment, that would lead to some baaad results. Most people take decisions based on emotions, while the doctor would be doing his job and is responsible to treating the patient the best way possible. It is also cause of the "free" market that the hospitals just put whatever prices they want on procedures. Some hospital bill for 10$ per a cup which they deliver the meds in, or like 200-400$ for a fuckin IV. Any sane government would swing its hammer down that shit.

It really bothers me that the centralized government has been fucking up in such major things for decades, yet people are against anarchism.... If they are not gonna protect citizens might as well just disband the whole institution.

As an outsider it feels like the word "socialism" and all of its divisons are the biggest,most fearful thing that could happen to americans in their eyes. As if social policies are a bad thing...

So you are acknowledging that the price of healthcare in the US is caused by the meddling of the government and not because of the free market?

It appears to me that now you do, but claim that full involvement of the state would kill this corporate-state inbreed monster healthcare the US has created correct?

Well corporate/state manipulation of prices is only one of the problems with universal healthcare, a big one is the natural bureaucratic inefficiency of the state:





In México you can get an X-Ray taken en 15 minutes for 30 bucks and we are a shithole 3rd world country... in canada you will wait 10x that time and the state is billed 10x that ammount too, the average waiting time for an specialist in Canada is 17 weeks, I can call right now to any specialist doctor and get an appointment the same day and pay under $50.


You might think that all the oversaturation, the wait times, the excessive prices are all worth it just as long as we dont let people die on the streets, as long as that family doesn't go broke cuz dad went into a coma for 15 years, however all that inefficiency that the state brings actually quanfifiably brings fare more deaths and damage to the lives of people than a free market alternative.

Well this is an old analysis from 2009 but im pretty suspicious of the argument that the state sector is in principle more inefficient than the private sector. they have to be analyzed one by one of course. There are also corporatized state owned assets with a similar structure to private controlled corporations. I just mentioned one example of the university having far more administrators since it has been turned into a pseudo corporation as well.

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/administrative-costs/

"... the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has found that administrative costs under the public Medicare plan are less than 2 percent of expenditures, compared with approximately 11 percent of spending by private plans under Medicare Advantage. This is a near perfect “apples to apples” comparison of administrative costs, because the public Medicare plan and Medicare Advantage plans are operating under similar rules and treating the same population."

The administrative costs are far less in industrial countries outside of America where state spending on healthcare is higher, and the services are comparable.

The patents surely are anti-free market though, and i agree that they are insane..i mean its $400 billion worth of straight stealing as the research shows.

You are arguing the same point that Spitfire comparing Obamacare/Medicaid to full Universal healthcare, I am not arguing about inbred corporate-state against universal healthcare, I'm talking about free market healthcare, you go to the doctor, you pay directly to him, no medicaid, ACA, subsidized insurance etc.

Patents are a big problem because of the FDA, which makes the path to get a new drug approved absurdly expensive in the hundreds of millions so any new breakthrough has to be sold and pushed through big pharma that can afford that and then absurdly lenthy patents have to be enforced because they need to make up for all the money spent not on R&D but all the years of work put into FDA approval of many drugs that never make it to market.

Okay, I get what you mean now. I just don't see a reasonable way that anyone would achieve that kind of a free market especially in a sector like healthcare where the state is involved from the very core education of the doctors (at least in most countries medical studies is the one certain government regulated specialization).

Also its the same here in terms of doctor visitation and cost of procedures except I pay 10eu a month, this system however has its flaws as doctors receive kinda shitty money so they abuse the system by abusing patients to get more money.

The other problem with a completely free market healthcare is that the population with the lowest social status is still not going to be able to pay for it, the whole idea behind an universal healthcare is the safety net it guarantees, that society has you covered in case you fuck up and focus on how to get better, rather than think about how to survive

Midterms: so not exactly a blue wave.

Democrats take House resoundingly but actually lose ground in Senate so its just a straight up gridlock. That was pretty much expected from the polls. Obamacare won't be repealed anytime soon, but we also won't have single-payer universal healthcare. No stupid wall. Being able to block Trump's agenda is tremendously important, though miraculously he wasn't actually able to do much damage even with complete party control of congress in the last 2 years. Foreign policy wise, again, its just incredibly important to be able to block something like a Bolton inspired invasion of Iran. Still, there's a lot Trump might try to get away with via executive order and once war drums start beating there's a chance some democrats might fall apart, though it seems there's a lot more unity now than in previous years.

apparently Joe Biden is possibly the next guy democrats will run with, the guy is a living meme, but so is Trump so its the battle of the memelords for US presidency in 2 years