Satisfying desires - Page 2

Not handling money is a precept of Buddhism that I think has a lot of merit. It's one of the 10 precepts so pretty strict and meant for monks but just because I can't become a monk doesn't necessarily mean I can't follow those precepts. It would just be a lot more difficult. There is a strong part of me that would like to have a partner (no marriage) which is kind of complicated in itself and shakes up a lot of things irt to my current life. I just had visions of meeting some Thai or Indian gal who could cook me up vegetarian curries and understand my lifestyle. It's such a fantasy. Most Thai and Indian gals here are go go go material success mongers. My only hope is probably crazy white girls at this point or actually going and living in Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, India, etc. I could probably teach English in one of those countries. Hmmmm.

$1,500,000 is pushing it depending on your age and where you want to live. I don't really know about the $2,500,00+ number because I've never wanted to get married or have kids. I think the latter you are kind of boxed into an ordinary life and you have to think about health insurance, pensions, medicaid, social security, etc etc etc. unless you have a very high net worth. I think from your vibe it would be very silly to turn down a $300k+ income including health insurance, 401k matching plan, bonuses, etc. until 65 unless you are very sick of the job or they have decided they don't want you anymore. I have an aunt who was in that range and got millions in inheritance from her mother and still didn't retire until 65 because she wouldn't know what to do with herself. Her only hobby is buying houses and decorating them but she is also a hoarder and doesn't want to sell anything. It's kind of a comical situation but also a sad situation. Rich white people problems eh.

But, getting back to that $1,500,000 number have you actually budgeted that out? There was a really good thread about this on 2p2 and after looking into it Hero is basically going to be living in a closet, staring at the wall and eating 5 day batches of soup for every meal. It was budgeted with North American prices though. I know I could probably take that money and go live in South East Asia no problem.

How old are you hiems?

I was always a proponent of living life when you are young. There is more opportunity and energy. That is a complicated question though. With my current lifestyle I don't have to worry about that.

There is very little/no chance of me making $300k/yr.

$1.5 million is designed with going expat in mind. To be in the 1% of wealth in the US, I believe you need somewhere around $8-$10 million range, so $1.5 million is not a whole lot. So if I lived in the US I'd definitely still work, at least part time. It's easy finding work and making money in first world countries I'd feel a bit stupid remaining in the United States paying US prices and not making at least some money.

also I don't understand where you missed the part where I don't want to get married either. your not special for thinking this way, its very common. i also don't care about Buddhism. smh.

I don't think I'm special for not wanting to get married. I don't think it is that common though. I know of very few people who were long-term partners who didn't get married.

You were wondering why I would want to make $0. I explained why.

You didn't answer how old you were. My guess is 25 - 29. It would explain a lot.

There is no permanent satisfaction. That is really the problem. There is suffering and then there is clinging to this impermanent satisfaction. We want it to last but it won't. It doesn't help that we can't really control our thoughts, body sensations, feelings, phenomena. We're stuck in the middle of the universe on a large rock with these conditions. I don't know. It is just clear to me that it is better to free ourselves form suffering rather than continue to chase the pleasures. I still do. I went on a rush and ate a bunch of delicious cheese today but started to not like myself towards the end and then when I stopped immediately realized it was a stupid thing to do and that I got hooked and that in the future I will probably look to repeat that high by eating cheese again. How many extrapolations can we create out of that simple story?

Man, if I just had this much I'd be satisfied. Man, if I just had THIS much I'd be satisfied. Man, If I just had THIIIS much I'd be satisfied. You will rarely be satisfied bro. I keep track of my mom's garden. She is nuts. She has spent so much at this one plant store it is mind boggling. She'll love a plant one day and it's replaced with a new one the next. It's like is this really how you want to spend your retirement? But, retired people are nuts. My dad needs golf, sports, and stupid military novels. You should have seen how restless and frustrated he got when he couldn't figure out how to get HBO working so he could watch his obsession the Cleveland Browns on that stupid show Hard Knocks. It's everywhere. Everyone is suffering and a lot of people don't want to acknowledge it.

We are all fellow sufferers.

Our conceptions of suffering seem different. Yours is boredom retired people have, mine is being maliciously tortured or having a bomb dropped near you, basically anything to do with extreme physical pain.

having $0 income is suffering for many people; income means absence of suffering (food, shelter, time for creative pursuits, ect).

Pain, distress, and hardship especially to the extreme of malicious torture or being bombed are pretty obvious. It is the subtle suffering I am talking about. I am talking all the way down to having the expectation to enjoy a song on a boring commute and being dissatisfied with it. But, yesterday, I went on a rush on the way to the beach and I will continue clinging to that and suffering as long as I continue listening to music. I will suffer if I don't listen to music. I will suffer as long as I am living.

Income does not mean absence of suffering. How does one earn that income? Poker is suffering. You sit at the table and you suffer. The day I lost half my roll was heightened suffering. The day I won 35 buy-ins in a day I was walking on air a little bit. My hand felt like it might have carpal tunnel, my back hurt because the chair was not particularly comfortable, I didn't eat all day, but I was in a flow state for the majority of the day and didn't care. That's a rush. Most states of euphoria lead to a state of müdigkeit (tiredness) but that's besides the point. I chased that rush for a long time clinging to the possibilities of running up stacks all day but mostly poker is suffering. Most work is suffering. Most living is suffering.

Not having food or shelter is not great but some monks choose to live that way and thrive. Time for creative pursuits almost seems like a pipe dream. I use to think creative pursuits were one of the highest forms of a project along with say altruism and activism but now I am a meditator. Beg for food and shelter and meditate. Easy game. Maybe not the most realistic but painting, writing, composing, etc. for a sense of rausch or for some sort of immortality project is nothing more than doing drugs and being deluded about it.

Right, your just defaming the word 'suffer', imo.

creative pursuits is what defines human beings biologically. You can be different or repress it if you want but archaeological evidence suggest tools, paintings, ect have been around for an extremely long time.

Dissatisfaction is probably a better word but I think suffering is mostly appropriate. The Pali word is dukkha and it is most translated into suffering.

Just because creative pursuits have been around for a really long time doesn't mean they are the absence of suffering. I used to love to paint but it typically caused me so much dissatisfaction that I just stopped painting and this is before Buddhism. It's the same with writing short-stories, novellas, and novels.

Many jobs don't leave time or energy for creative pursuits anyways. You have to be one of the lucky ones (or cursed ones) whose creative pursuits are their job.

I was in walking meditation yesterday and that fantasy of picking up a humble Thai Buddhist woman who could cook me curry basically vanished. My uncle did that though. Kind of a baller to be honest. He might be on the autism spectrum but is really, really good at chemical engineering. He works like 60-70 hours a week in a paper plant but seems to love it. Comes home gets some Thai curry and does chores, follows Ohio State, tinkers with his train set, goes kayaking, etc. I would be miserable in that life but it seems to work for him. I was in a Refuge meeting last night and one of the themes was that we all had to choose our path. We have to investigate and choose on our own.

In that walking meditation I noticed the Renoir hanging on the wall and it felt dead to me. Dead like my grandmother that gave it to me. That's about as far as I got because I noted that thought and it died too but sitting here and writing now there are fond memories associated with both. There is drinking French wines and cooking French food. There is going to Paris. There is sitting at a cafe smoking cigarettes. There is reading Sartre and Camus and Becket. I thought being an intellectual and creative in Paris was the peak of life. Although I remember stopping off at my grandmother's house and her cooking me a good meal and splitting a bottle of wine and then getting the port out and talking into the night. She lived in the forest. I remember the windows being open and the sheets and pillow being a bit cool as the fall breeze circulated throughout the room. A symphony of forest sounds serenaded the room. I am now clinging a bit to these memories. She has passed away and that house was sold. I no longer drink red wine or port.

The only thing that didn't seem impermanent in that walking meditation was the air conditioning but it too eventually passed away. Everything is impermanent, dissatisfying, and non-self.

I don't know if it's really much of a sample but the poll was interesting.

It looks like LP is not as ordinary as I played it up to be but it was mostly a mixed bag. Maybe the most interesting thing is everyone but 1 was 30 - 34. I guess a lot of us got lucky (or unlucky) that it seems like Broodwar coincided with the poker boom. Starcraft was released in 1998. I was 14. Perfect age to gamer it up. Chris Moneymaker won the Main Event in 2003. I was 19. Perfect age to gambool it up.

I don't really have more to say about it. Obviously, most people ordinary or not are not going to want to meditate for a portion of their day and study Buddhism. That's just what I'm on right now and it has been fleeky deeky. I felt like throwing in some slang I just made up because I am mostly a boring Buddhist practitioner. A good Buddhist wouldn't label anything as good or bad and certainly not use stupid slang. Meditation isn't stylish (even though mindfulness is "in" at the moment). It never goes out of style. A punto = on point. Meditation is a punto.

I'll just leave this here in case anyone wants to give it a go:

How to Meditate

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is this noble eightfold path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

On September 26 2018 13:26 RiKD wrote: It looks like LP is not as ordinary as I played it up to be but it was mostly a mixed bag.

Or perhaps your perception of ordinary is skewed.

Well, I think there are different distinctions to be made. Living in Colombia and teaching Math to rich kids I wouldn't necessarily say is ordinary but if you are a householder (own or rent), wish to get married and have kids, etc etc etc. by a monk or diligent layperson's standards it is quite the ordinary life. I would venture a guess that most people on LP don't want to be "ordinary." By monk standards we all are. I would also venture a guess that almost none have aspirations to be a monk. So, where does that leave us exactly? I continue on as a more or less diligent layperson that writes blogs occasionally and everyone kind of does their own thing. We all have to find our own path but it is kind of like are you dissatisfied? Probably. Oh, here is a path that looks to shore that up.

My mind and my body oppress me. I am afflicted with consciousness.

I have to say sometimes I get a little bit frustrated. It feels like I have to get through the Anattalakkhana Sutta instead of finishing "Infinite Jest" or "Insert Classic Here" or whatever. I want to have sex with a beautiful woman but I can't even flirt with any woman. I can say I am only practicing 5 precepts but I know there are benefits with practicing 8. So, then I just practice them at my convenience and it all gets fucked up. I am just bored. I had a mediocre meditation session. I got drowsy and a little bit lost in thought which doesn't usually happen anymore. I have had plenty of sleep. Fuck it, this just gets back to my mind and my body oppressing me. I am nauseous with consciousness. I don't think the answer is smoke cigarettes and fuck a petit French woman or smoke cigarettes and discuss philosophy. Who knows? I want to get a tattoo but there is not going to be enough time today. I keep trying to not get a tattoo but it keeps coming back to me. C'est la vie. L'être et le néant. Posting here just seems like the most pleasant way to pass the time currently. Eh, fuck it, I will feed the cats and see how I feel.

Au revoir,

My fellows contracted with dukkha meaning you are A L I V E. This post makes me want to listen to Outkast "ATLiens" or Gojira "L'es enfants sauvages (Live)." Listening to music or partaking in entertainment goes against one of the 8 precepts. I mean I know where they are coming from but that really is kind of a bummer.

The precepts are not commandments to be obeyed, but training rules. They are not beneficial rules to follow if they are not understood as such. The five precepts are fully sufficient for someone in your situation, living at home, dealing with mental illness and trying to build a consistent meditation practice and not preparing for a retreat. The 8 precepts are held temporarily by laypeople when they know they can commit to them fully for a period of intensive meditation practice. Adding but not committing to the other precepts is basically the equivalent of fuckarounditis when it comes to fitness. Instead of sticking to what is known to work and bring progress, you just wing it, "go with the flow," stagnate and bring yourself undue stress and dissatisfaction. It shows a lack of trust in the teachings or a lack of seriousness (impatience). At this rate, with the self-caused stress that you bring to yourself by trying to become what you cannot become, or being unclear as to what should be aim toward, it is only a matter of time before you are completely disillusioned and decide meditation is not worth it for you, and you give it up again, as you did in the past, and as Y warns in the very book you linked:

"The second important principle is that meditation must be performed continuously. Meditation practice, like any training, must become habitual if it is to help one overcome bad habits of clinging and partiality. If one practices meditation intermittently and is unmindful between sessions, any clarity of mind gained from the practice will be weakened by subsequent distracted mind states, making the meditation practice seem useless. This is often a cause for frustration and disillusionment in new meditators until they learn to be mindful throughout their daily activities and continuously from one meditation technique to the next. Once they are able to be mindful continuously, their concentration will improve and they will realize the true benefit of the practice."

All this time spent worrying about the precepts is time not spent dealing with reality mindfully. It's just another distraction. If what you really want is more distractions, then you should be very, very clear with yourself, and say to yourself "right now, I can't meditate, it's not working for me, I will distract myself". And do that. There is no point in doing things half-assedly. Go back to meditation only when you feel like it's purposive. And it's easy to know if that's what you really want. Is it what you're doing most of the time? When you're not focused on getting validation from others, do you prefer distracting yourself or meditating and studying or structuring your life to make them easier? Be honest with yourself and go from there.

If you know yourself well, then you know you are prone to overreaching, being impatient, distracting yourself, arguing for the sake of arguing (or discussing for the sake of discussing), and forgetting what you need to be doing. So take the appropriate measures to prevent those things as much as possible if that is your goal. Have reminders. For instance, "I will not mess around with the precepts, I will be disciplined and follow the appropriate ones" as a reminder on your phone popping up every day. If it is not your goal to improve, then indulge in those things you desire until you've had enough of them. If you do not indulge in them it shouldn't be because someone told you these things are bad, even if it's the Buddha, but because you know experientially that these things are not bringing you anything positive. If it's a drudgery to read scriptures, read something else until the desire to read scriptures comes back. There is no Buddhist police watching over you, and you have nothing to prove to anyone. The goal is less stress and suffering, not more, remember? Maybe make a reminder of that too.

Training rules is a good way to look at it. Here is the thing though. I have tasted the 8 precept training and trust in its effectiveness. Except for maybe eating before noon. That one is really difficult for me to sustain but it still feels like some form of laziness that I don't attempt it. Now that I am listening to music again... I don't know. I don't know if abstaining from music is beneficial for me. It's a close one. I don't listen to it nearly as often. Would my meditation be better if I didn't come on LP, listen to music, visit r/ggw, etc? Yeah, probably and that's probably what it's meant for. I would say I actually have a lot of confidence in the teachings but it's more so a lack of impetus. I am not there yet. I meditated for 2 hours today with some breaks. That felt good enough. I actually meditated for an hour straight the first time ever yesterday. There is probably some danger at looking at this as great evidence of anything but this last week has been flourishing for me not stagnating. Honestly, I could be hitting my current limits. It just seems really difficult to push through to say 4 hours a day. An hour and a half session of meditation seems much easier for some reason. Y, of course, is right. I have been mindful from session to session with great benefit but most of the time when I am done meditating I cash out and "unwind." This can make the next session no easier than the first although sometimes the first is the easiest or it really just depends. Sometimes I study something and it helps tremendously sometimes it feels like a hindrance. I have a hard time staying mindful on days that I work and also on days that I don't.

I don't know exactly how I feel about meditation. It's something that I do that feels beneficial. Recently, to experience and understand the hindrances or non-self is something I place a really high value on. This type of thing which is happening quite often for me is what I find the benefits of meditation to be. The example of obsessing about this Thai girlfriend one hour and having that thought completely vanish the next. I do doubt the path. It comes up in my meditation a fair amount. Not as often as it used to. Nowadays, I can just note it and move on where in the past it could have the capability of making a session quite miserable because I didn't want to acknowledge it. There is something else. Acknowledge reality. Really, in understanding the hindrances has so much value in meditation and daily life.

Sometimes I get fired up about studying and charge through it all and then sometimes not so much. You are right though to be honest and go from there.

Thanks man. That was a good post.

The purpose of vipassana meditation is to develop nibbidha nana, the knowledge of dispassion or sense of weariness. Only when the phenomenon of incessant arising and ceasing has been personally seen and experienced, the nature of impermanence can be fully and thoroughly grasped. It is only then the senses of weariness is developed.

Furthermore, in connection with the contemplation on nama (mental phenomena), immateriality, only three components of vedana (feeling) are mentioned. Nothing was said of other components-mind and mental formations. It is clear here too that taking note of only the three vedanas (sukkha vedana, dukkha vedana, upekkha vedana)(pleasant, pain, equanimity feelings) at the moment of their arising will develop the sense of weariness. But it must be noted that it is not just the painful feeling but all the three kinds of feeling that should be contemplate on, because it must be understood that all three vedanas are manifesting themselves.

- Mahasi Sayadaw

Buddhism ain't compatible with the modern world believe me
You don't ever want to get too good at it or become awakened unless you're ready to be detached from western society
So much stuff starts looking absurd but drives the world and motivation
I've been there, and I'm using a balanced practical approach ever since the realisation

Also
becoming one with your emotions without all that observer shit is fucking fun baby aww yeah, suffering is the price you got to pay, and it's worth paying I'd say