Make em show?

Wondering what your thoughts are on making opponents show their cards at showdown in live games when you have the nuts.

For instance say there's a particular trouble player who's taking all sorts of nonsensical lines but you havent seen any showdowns with him yet so you dont know whats going on. You finally make the nuts and he puts you allin so you have a justified "make em show" situation since he was the aggressor, but then he sits there refusing to show signaling he's ready to muck and just wants you to table your obviously better hand. I often assume in these scenarios the player is simply embarrassed of his holdings and if you humiliate him that he may just leave, whereas if you let him keep his dignity you may keep him in the game.

You'll also get accused of slowrolling by at least 1 or 2 other fish at the table who dont know what slowrolling is, but you may have sort of set the mood at the table now. I think it's pretty acknowledged that "fun" social tables tend to play better than silent brooding one's. The player on your left will soft play you, the player on your right will let you peek at his cards after you fold, others will show they had TP to make you feel better, etc etc etc. You even get lighter calls from opponents just because they like you and arent trying to outplay you.

The downside is you missed seeing him open Q9o UTG and will probably fail to adjust properly to him in the shortrun.

Thoughts?

The only time I'll make someone show is if I called really light and there's a possibility they could muck a better hand

On January 05 2019 17:07 NewbSaibot wrote: Wondering what your thoughts are on making opponents show their cards at showdown in live games when you have the nuts. For instance say there's a particular trouble player who's taking all sorts of nonsensical lines but you havent seen any showdowns with him yet so you dont know whats going on. You finally make the nuts and he puts you allin so you have a justified "make em show" situation since he was the aggressor, but then he sits there refusing to show signaling he's ready to muck and just wants you to table your obviously better hand. I often assume in these scenarios the player is simply embarrassed of his holdings and if you humiliate him that he may just leave, whereas if you let him keep his dignity you may keep him in the game. You'll also get accused of slowrolling by at least 1 or 2 other fish at the table who dont know what slowrolling is, but you may have sort of set the mood at the table now. I think it's pretty acknowledged that "fun" social tables tend to play better than silent brooding one's. The player on your left will soft play you, the player on your right will let you peek at his cards after you fold, others will show they had TP to make you feel better, etc etc etc. You even get lighter calls from opponents just because they like you and arent trying to outplay you. The downside is you missed seeing him open Q9o UTG and will probably fail to adjust properly to him in the shortrun. Thoughts?

you can just say "show or muck"

I always make them show. Need all the info you can get. The only exception I can think of if it's some obv whale and I'm not looking to tap the fish tank. They almost always just end up throwing their cards into the muck anyway if they won't show, and then it's too late.

rarely if ever make a fish show. if its a reg, people have enough timing sense to understand where their hand strength lines up against a snap call so i dont really run into this situation often. i'll generally wait and make regs show but i'll say something as i call/make some kind of gesture to make it clear that i probably won just to avoid bad blood and then just let them decide what they'll do.

I think every situation is kinda unique. let me throw some scenarios which I've been part of.

Scenario #1
Me having the nuts against anyone, I just don't care about any factors at all, I won't spend any extra time and just show my hand right away even if villain is a regular and I would like to know which hand he was bluffing with.

Scenario #2
@Bellagio 1/3 I open raise 9d9h from utg, mp calls btn calls and the big blind calls, flop is 2c3c7c goes x,x,x, btn bets right away half pot only I call, turn 8d I check he bets half pot again I call, river Kh I check and he bets pot almost instantly, been playing this table for about 1-2hrs and my read on this guy was that he will stab a lot so I think for about 5-10 seconds and call, he doesn't want to show and he's waiting for me to turn my hand over so I know I'm good at this point obv and I was going to show as I do almost always but then I think why would I want to give information for free? (I wasn't even protecting myself from this guy but from two decent regs who where at the table + I wanted to know if he at least was stabing with equity or just randomly clicking buttons) so I just stay quiet and hold my cards like getting ready to throw them into the muck as letting him know if you muck I'll muck, so after 30 seconds of this shit going where he doesn't want to show and me being quiet he tables JhTh. ofc he starts bitching/ranting so this created a lot of bad blood which is never ever good for anyone, am I an asshole for this type of behavior? I don't know some people might say yes, do I feel bad/guilty about it? absolutely no.

Scenario #3
@Aria 1/3 been playing this table for about 30 mins tops. The board was something like 8d7d3dQs3s and the action checked all around flop and turn 3 ways, anyway I call a small bet on the river with A7 and the guy doesn't want to show and starts shaking his head as a clear sign of him being beat right? I instantly turn my hand since it was a 10 big blind pot or something like that and he still shaking his head getting ready to muck, to my surprise he had the nut flush lmao, who the fuck slowrolls on a 10bb pot? I didnt even get triggered, just laughed and took him as a very nice genuine troll, i guess you never know who's trying to gain all information possible.

if it's a shitty live grinder that loves to angle shoot etc etc i snap off his retarded bluff and make him show his hand or i make him muck and take down pot with no SD either cuz fuck him.

if it's a fish/good table and he crams it in and I snap I'll table the nuts 100%. no point in getting over competitive with players much worse than myself...bad business.

Sickest angle i ever saw in my life was a 1/3 game where a guy goes all in on the turn and i call. Turns out he left one dollar behind so input the dollar all in on the river and waited for him to show. He proceeds to go "i called you" on that one dollar and i had to show first. On the brightside i won the pot but never got to see this hoe's hand.

On January 06 2019 06:07 PoorUser wrote: rarely if ever make a fish show. if its a reg, people have enough timing sense to understand where their hand strength lines up against a snap call so i dont really run into this situation often. i'll generally wait and make regs show but i'll say something as i call/make some kind of gesture to make it clear that i probably won just to avoid bad blood and then just let them decide what they'll do.

this

i've had a few live regs I end up becoming friendly with over time that will try to exploit the fact that I just always announce my hand and if they can't beat it, they will just never show. those people suck and if they're going to do that, just always look to the dealer and make them show first if they are suppose to

On January 12 2019 00:52 K40Cheddar wrote: Sickest angle i ever saw in my life was a 1/3 game where a guy goes all in on the turn and i call. Turns out he left one dollar behind so input the dollar all in on the river and waited for him to show. He proceeds to go "i called you" on that one dollar and i had to show first. On the brightside i won the pot but never got to see this hoe's hand.

what do you mean, if he announces all in, it doesnt matter how many chips he left near him, they are all to be considered in the pot

pretty shitty thing to do though

Sorry I wasn't clear he didn't "announce" all-in but when you put a huge stack in and it looked like he had nothing behind it's basically implied all-in, that is until on the river he revealed his hidden last dollar chip and checked to me just so he wouldn't have to show when i put the last dollar in.

So I guess what it boils down to is how valuable is it to know some guy is open raising air or not. I guess it's not too hard to figure out they're randomly clicking buttons after their 3rd minraise preflop and donkbetting flops for 1/10th pot and stuff. Do you just sorta start testing out the waters isolating them putting them on trash?

On January 18 2019 18:20 K40Cheddar wrote: Sorry I wasn't clear he didn't "announce" all-in but when you put a huge stack in and it looked like he had nothing behind it's basically implied all-in, that is until on the river he revealed his hidden last dollar chip and checked to me just so he wouldn't have to show when i put the last dollar in.

but you can request the dealer to show his mucked cards

On January 11 2019 20:21 YoMeR wrote: if it's a shitty live grinder that loves to angle shoot etc etc i snap off his retarded bluff and make him show his hand or i make him muck and take down pot with no SD either cuz fuck him. if it's a fish/good table and he crams it in and I snap I'll table the nuts 100%. no point in getting over competitive with players much worse than myself...bad business.

like what % of casinos allows you to win pots without showing the winning hand?

On January 20 2019 02:33 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2019 18:20 K40Cheddar wrote: Sorry I wasn't clear he didn't "announce" all-in but when you put a huge stack in and it looked like he had nothing behind it's basically implied all-in, that is until on the river he revealed his hidden last dollar chip and checked to me just so he wouldn't have to show when i put the last dollar in. but you can request the dealer to show his mucked cards

No this casino required last action to show first and the 2nd person is allowed to muck.

On January 12 2019 00:52 K40Cheddar wrote: Sickest angle i ever saw in my life was a 1/3 game where a guy goes all in on the turn and i call. Turns out he left one dollar behind so input the dollar all in on the river and waited for him to show. He proceeds to go "i called you" on that one dollar and i had to show first. On the brightside i won the pot but never got to see this hoe's hand.

I had something similar happening to me, hate those types.

On January 20 2019 02:34 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 11 2019 20:21 YoMeR wrote: if it's a shitty live grinder that loves to angle shoot etc etc i snap off his retarded bluff and make him show his hand or i make him muck and take down pot with no SD either cuz fuck him. if it's a fish/good table and he crams it in and I snap I'll table the nuts 100%. no point in getting over competitive with players much worse than myself...bad business. like what % of casinos allows you to win pots without showing the winning hand?

lol just saw this. most casinos i played at don't require to show if my hand if it's the last one in the pot.

tbh idc too much about this stuff...i just dont give an inch to angling douchenuggets