On April 24 2019 23:06 Baalim wrote:
lol what do you mean they are overplaying the battle? it has been an 8 season long build up for the battle
I mean that the dead are not that big of a threat because their numbers are super low. Obviously shittons of people will die since.. its still gonna be sketchy but Westeros isn't under a real threat by them, there should be no way they win unless Westorosi go full retard. Still gonna be epic though
Danny had limited amount of ships - she didnt transfer all her armies and the north armies are kind of thin after fighting so many wars... the fact that Jamie said that 20k golden company + the lannister leftovers will be more than enough to defeat them after the battle with the dead is over confirms that. Also the dead probably grinded out the whole north around Winterfell(remember Umbers and Glovers(i will stand behind Jon Snow lol) didnt make it and they are the biggest houses there).
Another factor is that every dead from the human armies will be immediately turned to undead making things harder. Also other factors is the speed of the undead and so on...
The battle is so hyped up to be epic and i just hope it really is, but it will be not the end of either humanity and undead... i mean its kind of obvious Winterfell is going down and we will have another big battle and more drama later.
On April 24 2019 21:50 Spitfiree wrote:
GRRM is split between so many projects I'm starting to doubt he finishes the story in his lifetime ( I really don't see how its even possible to do it in 2000 pages ). Not even gonna buy "Blood and Fire" before he finishes the story ... just cba starting another fantasy story that hasn't been finished yet, already have enough of that plus Tool's album so that's plenty.
Anyway back to GoT - so Jaime should probably die in the battle and Arya probably gonna use his face to kill Cersei later on, which would fulfill the prophecies for both of them
Also there is probably some "masterplan" in place by Bran for the battle, which we're not aware of the kind of like the one in the battle of Blackwater with Tyrion (except in that one there were plenty of actions that hinted at it), thats the only thing I could find plausible to make up for the "hurr durr im the world's memory" bullshit.
Also I think they are overplaying the battle by shittons. Best case scenario - the dead are around 100-120k, while Daenerys's army is around 220-250k ALONE, excluding the North and everyone else, making the total around 350 to 400k vs 120k dead. I get that most of the dead soldiers become a part of the army of the dead, but even if they get to burn like 30% of their own bodies and with the 4 to 1 advantage, they should be pretty fine. Question is, is the Iron Fleet travelling to fuck em up after that already? Cersei was not shown once in the previous episode, that's not something uncommon for GoT, but it does raise some questions since there are 4 episodes left and every time a main character was not in the episode, that episode was a bigass battle or some major event, which in this case it wasn't
P.S. How was WW S2 shit.. everything was pretty well thought out of
How do you come up with that number ?
400K Army ???
Unsullied are 13.000 Soldiers
Dorthraki Army under Drogo were 40.000 soldiers i believe they are a lot less under Danys rule.
Average House in the North has like 3000-6000 soldiers
So lets say Army of all North forces combined
13.000 Unsullied Soldiers
20.000-30.000 Dorthraki Soldiers
2 Dragons
30.000 Soldiers of different houses united under the North
2000 Wildling warriors leftovers ? (John snow had 3000Wildling fighters in the battle of the bastards)
Thats nowhere near 400K
more like 80K
Undead Army
~ 120k Undead + Some white Walkers + Nightking + Viserion Undead Dragon
pretty even odds imo
The Lannister Army was 20.000 men + 20.000 men Golden Company + Eurons Army
So in case 50% of people from the North die vs undead and they lose their dragons
It would be a pretty even and dangerous battle vs Lannister + Golden Company + Euron
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
On April 24 2019 21:50 Spitfiree wrote:
GRRM is split between so many projects I'm starting to doubt he finishes the story in his lifetime ( I really don't see how its even possible to do it in 2000 pages ). Not even gonna buy "Blood and Fire" before he finishes the story ... just cba starting another fantasy story that hasn't been finished yet, already have enough of that plus Tool's album so that's plenty.
Anyway back to GoT - so Jaime should probably die in the battle and Arya probably gonna use his face to kill Cersei later on, which would fulfill the prophecies for both of them
Also there is probably some "masterplan" in place by Bran for the battle, which we're not aware of the kind of like the one in the battle of Blackwater with Tyrion (except in that one there were plenty of actions that hinted at it), thats the only thing I could find plausible to make up for the "hurr durr im the world's memory" bullshit.
Also I think they are overplaying the battle by shittons. Best case scenario - the dead are around 100-120k, while Daenerys's army is around 220-250k ALONE, excluding the North and everyone else, making the total around 350 to 400k vs 120k dead. I get that most of the dead soldiers become a part of the army of the dead, but even if they get to burn like 30% of their own bodies and with the 4 to 1 advantage, they should be pretty fine. Question is, is the Iron Fleet travelling to fuck em up after that already? Cersei was not shown once in the previous episode, that's not something uncommon for GoT, but it does raise some questions since there are 4 episodes left and every time a main character was not in the episode, that episode was a bigass battle or some major event, which in this case it wasn't
P.S. How was WW S2 shit.. everything was pretty well thought out of
How do you come up with that number ?
400K Army ???
Unsullied are 13.000 Soldiers
Dorthraki Army under Drogo were 40.000 soldiers i believe they are a lot less under Danys rule.
Average House in the North has like 3000-6000 soldiers
So lets say Army of all North forces combined
13.000 Unsullied Soldiers
20.000-30.000 Dorthraki Soldiers
2 Dragons
30.000 Soldiers of different houses united under the North
2000 Wildling warriors leftovers ? (John snow had 3000Wildling fighters in the battle of the bastards)
Thats nowhere near 400K
more like 80K
Undead Army
~ 120k Undead + Some white Walkers + Nightking + Viserion Undead Dragon
pretty even odds imo
The Lannister Army was 20.000 men + 20.000 men Golden Company + Eurons Army
So in case 50% of people from the North die vs undead and they lose their dragons
It would be a pretty even and dangerous battle vs Lannister + Golden Company + Euron
Just from the first line i can see your numbers are wrong by a large margin as well:
Danny started with 8000 Unsullied(this is the only exact number we heard when she was doing business with the masters) given the fact they had few battles that number can be cut down by at least 2000.
The north army is far less than your stated numbers - 2 of the biggest houses are fighting for the dead now - Umber and Glover(Umber kid died in ep.1 and Glover never went to Winterfell), others suffered greatly during the war with Rob and in BoB(Ramsey statement - Jon has less than 3k and he has 6k, after the blood bath those are probably halved or even worse). Lets say that the north + lord Royce forces together are about 10k ppl(that can be a big overestimation imo).
The Dothraki army has to be around 15k ppl because Danny had around 1000 ships to begin with, some of them filled by the Unsullied and horses are big you know...
In general i dont see the joint armies bigger than 30-35k ppl(and this is maximum).
The dead have more than 100k for sure(Dannys statement + recent recruits).
2 Dragons yes but only 1 experienced rider - Danny, and one noob - Jon vs The NK and his 100(at least) generals who can shoot down dragons with ice javelins.
NK brings the storm as well that will make dragon battles harder for Jon/Danny
I forgot to mention the dead have giants and other animals with them(we saw a bear the very least).
It seems to me to be a very very tough battle for the living smth like 25-30% chance for the living because they are fortified in Winterfell, if they fight in the open they are probably doomed.
P.s 400k army wtf dude? Seriously, first you say Bran didnt warg anyone in the show and now this... i think u just never watched the show or what?
Was not sure about the unsullied but thought i did read somewhere they are + 13.000 Soldiers
edit:
Season 3
Daenerys offers one of her dragons in exchange for 8,000 Unsullied and the boys still in training (about 5,000). The offer is accepted.
Considering many years have passed she now indeed had 13.000 unsullied warriors
some of them died in battles but not too many i cant remember any big battle where lots of unsullied died
Dothraki numer indeed is unclear since there were a total of 100.000 Dothraki warriors of which 40.000 were under Kal Drogos Banner
We do not know how many Dothraki fit on Danys 1000 ships ?
15.000 seems a possible number.
20.000 could also be possible
12.000 could also be possible
we simply do not know other than it is for sure a considerable amount less than 40.000 which Kal Drogo had
Wildlings :
We do not know :
It was 3000 warriors but many died in BoB
could be 2000 now could be 1000 could be 2500... wie simply do not know
The North
is very difficult to estimate , too
Most houses had 2000-6000 soldiers but some of them like House Mormont almost completely died fighting with Rob Stark vs Lannisters and Boltons
The number of total remaining fighters could be anything from 10.000-30.000 (Knights of the Vale are a big Army probably 4000+ alone)
we simply do not know .
So lets assume worst case ->
11.000 ;unsullied
12.000 ;dothraki
10.000 ;6North houses left with the Starks
1500 ;wildlings (assuming 50% died in BoB)
Id say your estimated 35k is the absolute minimum and not the maximum at best
We will never know exact numbers but its probably somehwere between 35k and 80k
But one thing is for sure
400K is completely out of discussion
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
Was not sure about the unsullied but thought i did read somewhere they are + 13.000 Soldiers
edit:
Season 3
Daenerys offers one of her dragons in exchange for 8,000 Unsullied and the boys still in training (about 5,000). The offer is accepted.
Considering many years have passed she now indeed had 13.000 unsullied warriors
some of them died in battles but not too many i cant remember any big battle where lots of unsullied died
Dothraki numer indeed is unclear since there were a total of 100.000 Dothraki warriors of which 40.000 were under Kal Drogos Banner
We do not know how many Dothraki fit on Danys 1000 ships ?
15.000 seems a possible number.
20.000 could also be possible
12.000 could also be possible
we simply do not know other than it is for sure a considerable amount less than 40.000 which Kal Drogo had
Wildlings :
We do not know :
It was 3000 warriors but many died in BoB
could be 2000 now could be 1000 could be 2500... wie simply do not know
The North
is very difficult to estimate , too
Most houses had 2000-6000 soldiers but some of them like House Mormont almost completely died fighting with Rob Stark vs Lannisters and Boltons
The number of total remaining fighters could be anything from 10.000-30.000 (Knights of the Vale are a big Army probably 4000+ alone)
we simply do not know .
So lets assume worst case ->
11.000 ;unsullied
12.000 ;dothraki
10.000 ;6North houses left with the Starks
1500 ;wildlings (assuming 50% died in BoB)
Id say your estimated 35k is the absolute minimum and not the maximum at best
We will never know exact numbers but its probably somehwere between 35k and 80k
But one thing is for sure
400K is completely out of discussion
True, also we have to consider Danny left part of her armies behind in Essos to maintain peace with Daario as ruler.
Anyway i feel it is something like 3 to 1 in terms of numbers(Dead vs Alive) with the dead having other advantages such as:
- big creatures like Giants, Bears and who knows what
- speed - we saw how fast they move when they want
- javelin trowing generals who can kill dragons
- the storm that will act as a big fog of war in their favor
- the generals can raise everyone who dies from the living as an undead
Winterfell only advantage to me seems fortification and probably that they will be able to kill the undead for the first time(i mean almost everyone has dragonglass weapon now?) also Arya has this magic stick made so she will shoot at the NK's dragon at some point?
What are you guys talking about, the dorthraki that joined her in the end alone are 120k+ and thats excluding Drogo's dorthraki ( from 40k she probably has at least 20k left of those) and then you have unsullied which are at least 13k
Her army alone should be at least 150k
She had over 1000 ships to transfer her army, which makes 150 people per ship and considering its a fantasy she easily did that ( yeah lets not argue about that, since you know how the travelling in those tv series works... )
Not quite sure how big the army of the North is but I imagine with the freefolk they should be shittons
edit: I just saw that Winterfell's armies were around 5k for the battle of the bastards, which is just pathetic lmao why does Sansa think she has any way of not bending
The army of the Vale is 40 to 45k though and afaik they are at Winterfell rn
And then we have the freefolk which I have no clue how many they are
Worst case scenario there should be around 200k at Winterfell defense as of this moment
edit2: Originally Daenerys thought Drogo alone to have 100k, turned out he has 40k. The Dorthraki whose chiefs she burned at the other continent and joined her are 100k + and then you have Drogo's dorthraki as well... She literally has all dorthraki under her rule. You guys have it all mixed up. Also she got ALL Unsullied not only the 8,000 at the beginning, she literally bought every one of them from the smallest child that wasn't even properly trained yet and almost none of them died. She lost like 50 tops of those
On April 25 2019 22:28 Spitfiree wrote:
What are you guys talking about, the dorthraki that joined her in the end alone are 120k+ and thats excluding Drogo's dorthraki ( from 40k she probably has at least 20k left of those) and then you have unsullied which are at least 13k
Her army alone should be at least 150k
She had over 1000 ships to transfer her army, which makes 150 people per ship and considering its a fantasy she easily did that ( yeah lets not argue about that, since you know how the travelling in those tv series works... )
Not quite sure how big the army of the North is but I imagine with the freefolk they should be shittons
edit: I just saw that Winterfell's armies were around 5k for the battle of the bastards, which is just pathetic lmao why does Sansa think she has any way of not bending
The army of the Vale is 40 to 45k though and afaik they are at Winterfell rn
And then we have the freefolk which I have no clue how many they are
Worst case scenario there should be around 200k at Winterfell defense as of this moment
edit2: Originally Daenerys thought Drogo alone to have 100k, turned out he has 40k. The Dorthraki whose chiefs she burned at the other continent and joined her are 100k + and then you have Drogo's dorthraki as well... She literally has all dorthraki under her rule. You guys have it all mixed up. Also she got ALL Unsullied not only the 8,000 at the beginning, she literally bought every one of them from the smallest child that wasn't even properly trained yet and almost none of them died. She lost like 50 tops of those
I dont really know how u came with those numbers but they are wrong for one reason only(im not even going to dissect every number) - and that is it will be very illogical for the whole show at this point.
Why would they feel doomed if they had 200k at Winterfell(or even 400k?) + 2 dragons + dragon glass weapons, fortifications etc?
Why would Jamie say that 20k golden company + lannister leftovers + the fleet of Euron will defeat them easy(even if its after the battle of Winterfell where they lose 50%)?
Those numbers just dont make any sense at all if we have 100k as the dead army number and the almost suicidal/tragic comments every character on the show makes in Winterfell?
Thats what I'm saying, they are overplaying it. Also you can't justify your argument by those means as they are anecdotal. Each one of those armies is clearly stated in some point of the story.
Drogo has 40,000
The last Dorthraki that joined her were stated to be 100,000
She originally buys 8,000 Unsullied then rapes everyone with them and free all of the rest which should be around 5,000 more. Barely any of them die anywhere
The army of the Vale is 45,000
Its exactly your point that's making me say they are overplaying this by shittons. Jaime's statement makes no sense. The dead could at least handle the 2 dragons and they have no emotions, Cersei can't (unless she developed some weapon). The 2 dragons alone can just burn all of the armies on the Lannister's sides, the moment they see them most people will just start running
On April 26 2019 10:22 Spitfiree wrote:
Thats what I'm saying, they are overplaying it. Also you can't justify your argument by those means as they are anecdotal. Each one of those armies is clearly stated in some point of the story.
Drogo has 40,000
The last Dorthraki that joined her were stated to be 100,000
She originally buys 8,000 Unsullied then rapes everyone with them and free all of the rest which should be around 5,000 more. Barely any of them die anywhere
The army of the Vale is 45,000
Its exactly your point that's making me say they are overplaying this by shittons. Jaime's statement makes no sense. The dead could at least handle the 2 dragons and they have no emotions, Cersei can't (unless she developed some weapon). The 2 dragons alone can just burn all of the armies on the Lannister's sides, the moment they see them most people will just start running
Lets start here - Vale army - 45k - Sansa mentions in Eastwatch episode that Royce has 2000 knights?
On April 26 2019 17:34 Spitfiree wrote:
Lets stop here since one google search confirms what he says and then confirms me ---> House Royce -> https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/House_Royce -> 2,000 Men
So, yes thats what I've been trying to explain, the screenwriters of the show are complete retards
Just follow my link above... pretty good explanation why you are wrong. Army of the living in the show at current moment is for sure smaller than the army of the dead and i mean by a large margin.
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