covid vaccine - Page 2

On September 30 2021 01:22 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2021 20:29 RiKD wrote: "like a ton of good reasons not to take it lol" list 3 good reasons 1.)standing up for bodily autonomy 2.)standing up for the fact that my vaccination status isn't really anyone else's business 3.)standing up against tyranny (how do people not see that is what the whole world is moving towards?) 3.)the fact that this is a new (and frankly retardedly dangerous) technology. It skipped proper testing, and even then it would still be dangerous as fuck. 3.)the fact that the vaccine DOESN'T PREVENT TRANSMISSION nor does it EVEN CLAIM TO. In fact, evidence points to the opposite. 3.)the fact that more people are dying than ever in the most vaccinated countries 3.)the fact that the companies who make these vaccines are companies with insanely horrible track records for releasing products that didn't work, did other than what was advertised, or harmed people. 3.)the fact that these horrible companies are given total immunity from liability i mean it's insanely huge amounts of free money for them, they'd piss in the vials if they didn't have anything else lined up 3.)the fact that there are other, better treatments, and those treatments are being repressed 3.)the fact that contaminants and nasty shit within the vaccine is being found in labs all around the world this is just getting started, actually. but the more and more claims I make the more people will find things to pick at and I don't have all day to spend on pointless arguments

Let me go point by point

Point 1 to 3 - and that's true, it also doesn't in any way imply the vaccine isn't working. This is an emotional response to a political topic and has nothing to do with the decision on whether or not to get vaccinated. Nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated, however it makes perfect sense to protect people that could not get vaccinated from people that refuse to do so, as well as box-in the spread of the virus, hence it makes perfect sense for the majority of measures taken by virtually every country

3.)the fact that this is a new (and frankly retardedly dangerous) technology. It skipped proper testing, and even then it would still be dangerous as fuck.

Purely false, there is enough information from official sources, from sources that tested the official sources, it's a matter of searching and educating yourself

3.)the fact that the vaccine DOESN'T PREVENT TRANSMISSION nor does it EVEN CLAIM TO. In fact, evidence points to the opposite.

It does prevent transmission in 98% in cases for Pfeizer, different vaccines have different percentage of effectiveness and it also matters on how long ago you took it. There is literally zero evidence that points to the opposite, again this is purely misinformed opinion

3.)the fact that more people are dying than ever in the most vaccinated countries

What are you talking about? All data points to the opposite. Vaccinated to unvaccinated deaths are in a 1 to 15-18 ratio literally all data from all sources point to that unless you get your news from Alex Jones

3.)the fact that the companies who make these vaccines are companies with insanely horrible track records for releasing products that didn't work, did other than what was advertised, or harmed people.

I can speak to Biontech in specifically here - they are literally one of the most advanced and clean companies in the world. I don't know about the rest, nor do I care as I wouldn't take anything other than Pfeizer. Either way this is an emotional response as every huge corporation has had fallouts at some point in their history, that doesn't mean their current state is the same. It doesn't relate to the vaccine's efficiency in any way

3.)the fact that these horrible companies are given total immunity from liability i mean it's insanely huge amounts of free money for them, they'd piss in the vials if they didn't have anything else lined up [/quote That's pretty much the only point I'm agreeing and this was initially started due to the legal mess it would've caused since Covid vaccines were going for mass adoption and new side effects were bound to be found, even the slightest ones would've caused a landslide of lawsuits. It makes sense that companies were initially protected, it no longer makes sense however and they should now be held liable for anything outside the found side-effects. [quote] 3.)the fact that there are other, better treatments, and those treatments are being repressed

Please name one. Also vaccine is a prevention measure, not a treatment measure. The whole idea is to PREVENT the virus and not allow it to continue its mutations and destroy every healthcare system in the world. This is a really ignorant and silly argument

3.)the fact that contaminants and nasty shit within the vaccine is being found in labs all around the world

Apart from the Moderna contaminated vaccines, which wasn't caused by Moderna but by a 3rd party company what else are you referring to? It sucks, but this happens with literally anything. I understand the fear of happening to a vaccine that could potentially cause life-altering results, but from the 3+ billion doses that were taken worldwide so far only 3800 were contaminated, do you understand how insignificant that is?


So overall you managed to give me about half a reason so far

We all know the government really wants to keep around the sheep that will do what they say and get rid of the genius free thinkers like asdf and lostaccount. If the vaccine doesn't help against covid like asdf said then it must be for some other virus that they are going to release later to kill off the last of the free-thinkers and spare us compliant sheep. RIP lostaccount and asdf, it's not too late to become a sheep like the rest of us

I stole this from a Bill Burr interview with conan

If you had actually done any research about the evil corporations that want to kill you and harvest your organs you'd know who created Biontech and who the people behind it are

Or you'd also know that Jennifer Doudna who helped develop RNA technology (CRISPR) left a pharma company with fat paychecks cause she didn't believe in their line of work just a few months after she went there.

I stole this from a Bill Burr interview with conan

I've been thinking the same thing since the antimaskers started raging. The sad part is a good portion of those people will die to their stupidity. But the 'cant help you if you won't even help yourself' saying plays at full power here.

Vaccines don't prevent getting the virus or transmitting the virus. All over the television are commercials that still say "get the vaccine to protect everyone, not just yourself". Well that is a lie.

The only thing vaccines do is make you get less sick, which is why I got it.

Btw, I got a 102.5 temperature fever for 48 hours after my Pfizer second shot. Now they are already giving 3rd shots. I don't think it is a good idea for me to get a 3rd booster shot for awhile, and if any doctor could recommend me to get one they would be lying because no one knows how it would effect me.

The vaccines don't entirely stop getting or transmitting covid, but being vaccinated and infected greatly reduces the amount of viral matter transmitted compared to just being infected. If everyone is vaccinated then it doesn't spread enough to propagate, if 50% are vaccinated then it still spreads but the vaccinated people are much less likely to be hospitalized or die.

Look at these charts for the UK.





The first is the new cases. Second is deaths.
For the spike in January-February, the population was not vaccinated. For the spike in July-August, the population was mostly vaccinated. The first results in huge numbers of dead people, while the latter isn't nearly as bad. (Since March, 3.5 million infected, only 10k dead. Before March, 4.1 million infected, 120k dead. )

I live in a country where Covid - the disease - has hardly been a big deal at all. Our total dead is still a 3 digit number, and virtually no deaths among those younger than 40. However, this has been accomplished through us having socially distanced and worn masks and having home office and no larger gatherings for 18 months. Now, the past months, because our population has willingly vaccinated, we've been gradually opening more and more, and as of one week ago, we basically have no remaining restrictions, and life is back to normal. If we had American rates of vaccinating, we'd have to choose between continued restrictions, or a lot more sick and dead people. This is our most efficient way of combating it, but it does require that even people who themselves are unlikely to become really sick join in.

On September 30 2021 09:43 Liquid`Drone wrote: Like when you wrote '3.)the fact that more people are dying than ever in the most vaccinated countries', that's just flat out wrong. Norway is one of the most vaccinated countries, and our death rate is now really low, and it has been ever since the vulnerable groups were vaccinated. Before May 2021 (this is around where all the vulnerable groups were vaccinated), we had 110k cases and 750 deaths. Since May 2021, we've had another 80k cases, but only 100 deaths. This is not due to a different testing regime. It's because the vaccines make people become much, much less sick than they used to get.

even assuming they don't play games with and manipulate numbers (which they do, at least in the U.S.), you are ignoring a bunch of stuff
the pandemic started in march of 2020 for most countries. You are comparing a 5 month period against a 14 month period, for some reason. Not only that, but you are comparing the summer against every season including winter.

Why don't you compare september this year against september last year for infections and death and then get back to me?

While there might be reasons why vaccinating, for an individual, is kind of a wash (not in a risk group, being somewhat of a recluse anyway), I'm really happy to live in a country with high vaccination rates, and I'd much rather contribute to that than leech off that.

What do you mean by "leech of that"? Leech off what? It sounds like you don't have basic understandings of how these treatments work.

What are you guys talking about the vaccine doesn't prevent getting Covid. You're literally extremely protected from getting it, yes it's not 100% and yes that immunity falls off with time, but do you really believe that shit?

got to spitfiree's post and realized I don't have time for this

I wonder how you guys will justify it when they start sending people to camps

On September 30 2021 21:20 asdf2000 wrote: got to spitfiree's post and realized I don't have time for this I wonder how you guys will justify it when they start sending people to camps

I got the vaccine when I was eligible and was happy to do it cause it meant being able to do stuff.

But I am having second thoughts since Spitfiree is famous for being "always wrong" which is why we all call him that on this forum.

Actually, nevermind, enjoy the conspiracy theory chase

On September 30 2021 09:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: Norway has just reopened as a consequence of us having really high vaccination numbers, and because everyone in risk groups are vaccinated, hardly anyone is getting really sick anymore - even though infection numbers are still reasonably high, hospitalization and deaths are really low. I notice a really strong correlation between vaccination rates and death/hospitalization rate per infection when looking at different countries. This to me is very strong evidence that the vaccines work - even if their duration is significantly shorter than what granted by MMR vaccines, they're more similar to flu shots. I'm double vaccinated, one pfizer and one moderna, and I'll take booster shots whenever that is recommended. I don't understand the hesitation one bit, and genuinely think that people who are hesitant to vaccinate are generally untrustworthy because the sources that convinced them not to vaccinate have virtually always also convinced them of other stuff that is quite frankly, ridiculously wrong.

Pretty much this

On September 30 2021 21:03 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 30 2021 09:43 Liquid`Drone wrote: Like when you wrote '3.)the fact that more people are dying than ever in the most vaccinated countries', that's just flat out wrong. Norway is one of the most vaccinated countries, and our death rate is now really low, and it has been ever since the vulnerable groups were vaccinated. Before May 2021 (this is around where all the vulnerable groups were vaccinated), we had 110k cases and 750 deaths. Since May 2021, we've had another 80k cases, but only 100 deaths. This is not due to a different testing regime. It's because the vaccines make people become much, much less sick than they used to get. even assuming they don't play games with and manipulate numbers (which they do, at least in the U.S.), you are ignoring a bunch of stuff the pandemic started in march of 2020 for most countries. You are comparing a 5 month period against a 14 month period, for some reason. Not only that, but you are comparing the summer against every season including winter. Why don't you compare september this year against september last year for infections and death and then get back to me?

Firstly, Norway isn't manipulating numbers. We have a very transparent society, every death is searchable. There's just absolutely no way there's any type of concentrated effort to manipulate numbers. (Obviously, I can't say that no individual has mistakenly reported a covid death as not-covid or vice versa, but I can with 100% confidence state that the numbers are very close to the real ones. I know a lot of health care workers and I work at a high school specializing on educating health care workers.)

I chose May because that is when vulnerable groups were vaccinated. Obviously if I am going to look at vaccine effect, that is the relevant time period. The date is not even relevant (I mentioned it so it would be possible for you to look it up yourself) - the number of infected and dead pre and post-vaccination is what is relevant when trying to determine vaccine efficiency. And then, roughly speaking (I mean, the vaccine rollout wasn't instantaneous, but the most important was always vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable, and they were all covered in May), we're looking at 110k infected leading to 750 dead before vaccines, and 80k infected leading to 110 dead after. The difference is massive.

Looking at September 2020 and comparing it with September 2021 doesn't really make sense for Norway, because in September 2020, there was very little Covid in Norway (it was pre-Delta, thus significantly less infectious, and we lived with more restrictions) while September 2021 has almost no restrictions. Consequently, September 2020 had very few infected, while 2021 has had plenty. However, if we do the math for just those two months, then September 2020 still looks much worse from a dead per infected count. September 2020 had a daily number of ~100 infected per day, about 3000 total. Dead for the same time period, 10. September 2021 (very few restrictions/none the final week) has seen 28k infected, 40 deaths.

More suitable for comparison might be to September 2021 (28k infected) with November+December 2020 (about 30k infected). For the latter period, we saw 150 dead. Basically, our population being vaccinated has made our CFR drop by like 75%+. It doesn't stop infections, but it makes covid far less dangerous. Vaccinating makes it go from 'highly infectious and unpredictable disease that is really dangerous for older people and people with comorbidities and that also fucks up (even if it's not deadly) quite a number (even if the percentage is low) of healthy young adults, too', to being 'mild flu'-ish.

A country like New Zealand can get by without vaccinating, because they're a self-sufficient island with a compliant population, willing to go to fairly extreme, concentrated measures to eradicate Covid whenever they've found it. Other countries, more reliant on travel, can't contain it. Then, vaccinating is the only way to have a) a society without many restrictions and b) not a lot of people dying. Not vaccinating only contributes further to government restricting more.

On September 30 2021 21:03 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 30 2021 09:43 Liquid`Drone wrote: While there might be reasons why vaccinating, for an individual, is kind of a wash (not in a risk group, being somewhat of a recluse anyway), I'm really happy to live in a country with high vaccination rates, and I'd much rather contribute to that than leech off that. What do you mean by "leech of that"? Leech off what? It sounds like you don't have basic understandings of how these treatments work.

I mean that for the Norwegians I know who haven't vaccinated, their argument hasn't been 'the vaccine doesn't work' or 'the vaccine is dangerous', their argument has been 'so many other people are vaccinating that herd immunity is achieved without me vaccinating, so I don't have to'. I mean, the other two groups do exist, but the people I know myself have chosen not to vaccinate because they figure they've benefited through other people vaccinating, so they don't have to. That's as leechy of a behavior as you can get in a society.

I can't believe what I'm reading and had to stop, I'm just glad I got to read a sane post before skipping the rest (thx eri)

I'm not even going to bother arguing, what the FUCK is wrong with you people.

Thanos was right - except the line should have been anti-vaxxers rather than a blind 50%.

got my vaccine shot a couple weeks ago, New Zealand was quite slow on this. I guess I'm one of the 'sheeple', that isn't brave enough to stand up to 'tyranny'.

On September 30 2021 22:15 Spitfiree wrote: Actually, nevermind, enjoy the conspiracy theory chase

This is the theme song of the 21st century:

I personally don't have a strong opinion on this issue.

I think if you are an antivaxxer it makes sense to have a stronger opinion (getting angry with forced vaccinations) on this than if you are a vaxxer (getting angry at non vaxxer).

From the point of view of a vaxxer I just don't see a big reason to get worked up like a girl about non vaxxers. Fighting and hunting down communists should be everyone's #1 priority anyway.

On September 30 2021 23:35 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On September 30 2021 22:15 Spitfiree wrote: Actually, nevermind, enjoy the conspiracy theory chase This is the theme song of the 21st century:

This is so good

On September 30 2021 01:22 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2021 20:29 RiKD wrote: "like a ton of good reasons not to take it lol" list 3 good reasons 1.)standing up for bodily autonomy 2.)standing up for the fact that my vaccination status isn't really anyone else's business 3.)standing up against tyranny (how do people not see that is what the whole world is moving towards?) 3.)the fact that this is a new (and frankly retardedly dangerous) technology. It skipped proper testing, and even then it would still be dangerous as fuck. 3.)the fact that the vaccine DOESN'T PREVENT TRANSMISSION nor does it EVEN CLAIM TO. In fact, evidence points to the opposite. 3.)the fact that more people are dying than ever in the most vaccinated countries 3.)the fact that the companies who make these vaccines are companies with insanely horrible track records for releasing products that didn't work, did other than what was advertised, or harmed people. 3.)the fact that these horrible companies are given total immunity from liability i mean it's insanely huge amounts of free money for them, they'd piss in the vials if they didn't have anything else lined up 3.)the fact that there are other, better treatments, and those treatments are being repressed 3.)the fact that contaminants and nasty shit within the vaccine is being found in labs all around the world this is just getting started, actually. but the more and more claims I make the more people will find things to pick at and I don't have all day to spend on pointless arguments

It's funny how my sister is saying pretty much the same thing verbatim and she's anti vax as well in addition to being non college educated and a complete moron. Some coincidence you must get your data from the same source LOL.

I have not taken my vaccination and probably will not (i'm mid 30, healthy and no illnesses) below some thoughts i have:

1) Im not against vaccination and i believe the risk group should definitely take it
2) I dont "understand" why the western world is only pushing vaccination when there is clearly working treatments (look at India & some south american countries).
3) How my country/politics (Switzerland) has dealt witht he situation is rather embarassing.
4) i miss personal responsiblity and i'm asking myself how much the govt. should generally interfere. what could be next after the covid certificate ? food-certificate ? travel-cefitivate ?
5) Also i dont understand why you need the young & healthy population vaccinated - wouldnt it be enough to have the risk group highly vaccinated ?

The young & healthy guys that got vaccinated, was it mainly for an altruistic reason? To almost everyone i talk to my age who got vaccinated it was to get the "normal" life back or because of pressure from work.

Interested to hear your thoughts.