covid vaccine - Page 4

i'm sorry that's too sarcastic, and it's a completely different situation, you guys are talking about sticking something in someone's body and injecting liquid that can cause significant changes

I'm not a fan of forced vaccinations. I'm a fan of having an educated and cooperative population and a trustworthy and transparent government, so that the population is capable of understanding that the vaccines will on average be beneficial to them and also help shield the most vulnerable, and that the government / public institutions recommending the vaccines isn't (justifiably) distrusted as sinister.

Forced vaccinations might give a short term benefit (more people are now vaccinated), but I can't see how it'll help with the long term goal of building trust in public institutions. (Again, it's not like I want people to blindly trust their government, it obviously has to be warranted, and there aren't many governments in the world I'd be particularly trusting towards.)

How can you oppose forced vaccination yet ridicule anti-vaxxers, label them ignorant dumb uneducated etc.

They aren't exactly the same but its in the same line of thought.

I mean, labeling people as dumb or ignorant isn't the most pedagogically sound approach to convince people. But I don't think that's really viable here anyway. I don't expect lostaccount to be swayed by my opinion either way. I like travis, but I think he's fallen into a hole of false information that I can't dig him out of no matter how hard I try. You actually vaccinated, even though I think you're all those three labels.

Either way, 'social pressure' is a valid mechanism to exert influence over people to help shape their behavior in a way that is better for society. Obviously it can also influence bad behavior - so it's not like social pressure is a default good, but if the cause is good, then I think it's totally fine. Not wanting behavior to be governed by laws doesn't mean I don't want to influence behavior.

You can however, rest assured that when I talk to my high school students about this (I asked them yesterday, like 90% had vaccinated and the rest were all going to do it soon), then my words are weighted a bit more carefully. (I also think 17 year olds are less to blame for their own ignorance and lack of education than what 30 year olds are. )

On October 03 2021 09:42 hiems wrote: How can you oppose forced vaccination yet ridicule anti-vaxxers, label them ignorant dumb uneducated etc. They aren't exactly the same but its in the same line of thought.

This was poorly thought out. Think about it for 5 seconds. If I thought anti-vaxxers were dumb, ignorant, uneducated, why would I care if they die of COVID? I'd rather not give up some of my bodily autonomy to the government just so some dumb people can not die of COVID. That's what forced vaccinations are: we all give up a small part of our bodily autonomy so that the unvaccinated can get some protection from COVID (against their own will).

Tbh I don't subscribe to that - I care about the dumb, ignorant and uneducated and wish they would not die, too. I just think there's a big difference between calling someone stupid for not taking the vaccine (whether I believe that'll contribute to them taking it or not) and actually injecting them with it against their will.

Drone is on the cutting edge of childhood development research

why just the other day he asked and learned 90% of his students had never looked at porn and the rest are going to stop soon

On October 03 2021 11:24 blackjacki2 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 03 2021 09:42 hiems wrote: How can you oppose forced vaccination yet ridicule anti-vaxxers, label them ignorant dumb uneducated etc. They aren't exactly the same but its in the same line of thought. This was poorly thought out. Think about it for 5 seconds. If I thought anti-vaxxers were dumb, ignorant, uneducated, why would I care if they die of COVID? I'd rather not give up some of my bodily autonomy to the government just so some dumb people can not die of COVID. That's what forced vaccinations are: we all give up a small part of our bodily autonomy so that the unvaccinated can get some protection from COVID (against their own will).

You are right in that I don't spend much time thinking about this issue its not a big priority for me I think we should mainly be hunting communists.

That being said I don't think your argument holds.

Within the set of all unvaccinated there are willingly unvaccinated and unwillingly unvaccinated (say in underdeveloped countries).

Within the willingly unvaccinated set there are different sets of demographic groups sortable by privilege, education level, age, religious preferences etc.

From what I've seen the contempt for antivaxxers comes not from some desire to save the life of the antivaxxers so much as to prevent spread to less fortunate areas of the world and those antivaxxers deemed "less ignorant" than other antivaxxers.

Ex asdf as a privileged American in his 30s will receive more derision than a poor old jehovahs witness grandma who you guys deem just as ignorant but you can emphasize with her a bit more. Etc etc.

On October 03 2021 12:49 Santafairy wrote: Drone is on the cutting edge of childhood development research why just the other day he asked and learned 90% of his students had never looked at porn and the rest are going to stop soon

It's a class full of future ambulance workers. It would be shocking if any one of them were anti-vaxx. (Pretty certain they wouldn't even be eligible for internships, which they are all looking forward to.)

Also Norwegians aren't prudes, I'm also pretty certain a majority of them would admit to watching porn without any hesitation.

On October 02 2021 21:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: Hm I've never played trackmania. If you play Monster Train then maybe that? (I was top 10 on some daily challenge at some point - otherwise prolly an imposter of some kind. )

Maybe monstertrain, are you a big fan of ccg? Been looking for more people who enjoy ccgs.

Are you also a teacher liquid drone?
Edit: Looks like so, gratz man! Education is key, good to have someone smart up there. What do you teach?

This is pretty simple.


Getting the vaccine is higher life EV than not getting the vaccine.
Forcing people to get the vaccine is authoritarian.


If you don't get it you're pretty fucking stupid. But that should still be your choice. But private businesses also have the right to refuse service to unvaccinated -- no shoes, no shirt, no service.

On October 03 2021 17:26 Oddeye wrote: Show nested quote + On October 02 2021 21:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: Hm I've never played trackmania. If you play Monster Train then maybe that? (I was top 10 on some daily challenge at some point - otherwise prolly an imposter of some kind. ) Maybe monstertrain, are you a big fan of ccg? Been looking for more people who enjoy ccgs. Are you also a teacher liquid drone? Edit: Looks like so, gratz man! Education is key, good to have someone smart up there. What do you teach?

I've played a lot of slay the spire and monster train, no others, but those two I've put quite some hours into. I am indeed a teacher, primary subjects English, sociology and history. (Last two years I've been working in high school, before that I spent a couple years in elementary.) I enjoy it a lot and honestly expect that I'll be doing this until I retire 30 years from now.

On October 03 2021 14:11 Liquid`Drone wrote: [QUOTE]On October 03 2021 12:49 Santafairy wrote: Drone is on the cutting edge of childhood development research Also Norwegians aren't prudes, I'm also pretty certain a majority of them would admit to watching porn without any hesitation.

do you and your wife do stuff where some other dude comes and bangs her

On October 03 2021 12:25 Liquid`Drone wrote: Tbh I don't subscribe to that - I care about the dumb, ignorant and uneducated and wish they would not die, too. I just think there's a big difference between calling someone stupid for not taking the vaccine (whether I believe that'll contribute to them taking it or not) and actually injecting them with it against their will.

I care enough to encourage them to get vaccinated and I will make an honest attempt at it. Usually you can tell within the first 2 minutes of a conversation whether you can reach someone or not. After that it's c'est la vie.

On October 03 2021 18:48 Daut wrote: This is pretty simple. Getting the vaccine is higher life EV than not getting the vaccine. Forcing people to get the vaccine is authoritarian. If you don't get it you're pretty fucking stupid. But that should still be your choice. But private businesses also have the right to refuse service to unvaccinated -- no shoes, no shirt, no service.

100% agreed... how can't professional poker players figure out simple odds?

also businesses should be free to fire employees, free market baby.

so those saying getting the Vaccine is higher EV, where do you draw the line ? you think Children also should get vaccinated and if yes why so ? I'm generally curious.

On October 04 2021 04:46 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 03 2021 18:48 Daut wrote: This is pretty simple. Getting the vaccine is higher life EV than not getting the vaccine. Forcing people to get the vaccine is authoritarian. If you don't get it you're pretty fucking stupid. But that should still be your choice. But private businesses also have the right to refuse service to unvaccinated -- no shoes, no shirt, no service. 100% agreed... how can't professional poker players figure out simple odds? also businesses should be free to fire employees, free market baby.

Lol free market there is no free market in today’s world maybe one day in the future. They had to mandate the vaccine to force people to take it. U think that’s free market?

On October 04 2021 12:57 sChOuA wrote: so those saying getting the Vaccine is higher EV, where do you draw the line ? you think Children also should get vaccinated and if yes why so ? I'm generally curious.

16-17 for sure, 12-15 verdict is less clear but ya probably. Younger than that and there seems to be very little point.

On October 04 2021 14:33 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On October 04 2021 12:57 sChOuA wrote: so those saying getting the Vaccine is higher EV, where do you draw the line ? you think Children also should get vaccinated and if yes why so ? I'm generally curious. 16-17 for sure, 12-15 verdict is less clear but ya probably. Younger than that and there seems to be very little point.

what kind of study are you refering to that suggest that ?

I saw a research (not peer reviewed) from California that says healthy boys may be more likely to be admitted to hospital with a rare side-effect of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine that causes inflammation of the heart than with Covid itself,
here the link: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

My point is the risk of healthy young children / adults to go to hospital because of Corona (not talking about dying) is so low that the vaccination needs to be almost perfect.

You are basically gambling with unknown side effects for a virus w 99%+ survival rate and I'm the idiot somehow lol NO U