put:fu:in Fuck Russians! - Page 13

nice thank you for going out of your way to provide such similar numbers that you found by researching

On April 22 2023 01:53 PuertoRican wrote: The Moscow Independent is probably posting similar numbers about Ukraine.

No, their propaganda is much worse and easily debunked:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/lost-in-lies-keeping-track-of-russian.html

Unlike Ukraine/Oryx numbers

Oryx numbers are all well-documented. In fact they will be glad if you can point out anything wrong to them. Of course Russia lost much more than what can be documented from photographs.


Example: Russia claimed to have destroyed 48 HIMARS, but only 16 were delievered to Ukraina..

"48 HIMARS claimed to have been destroyed or captured (1) by Russia's Ministry of Defence as of March 26th, 2023. [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [15] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] Only 16 HIMARS have been delivered to Ukraine as of the making of these claims. There is no visual evidence that supports the loss of any HIMARS."

On April 22 2023 01:53 PuertoRican wrote: Show nested quote + On April 21 2023 15:59 Santafairy wrote:   On April 20 2023 18:40 VanDerMeyde wrote: They are going away fast... Reminds me of a quote from "Gettysburg" movie: "We rather lose the war than admit the mistake" The Kyiv Independent The Moscow Independent is probably posting similar numbers about Ukraine.

yup

The russians are only good at attacking civilians.

On April 23 2023 08:25 Baalim wrote: yup

I have to disagree with u guys, this is not another "both sides are equally bad" or "yeah... there is propaganda on both sides" conflict at all. Defenders advantage, obviously Russia lost a lot more soldiers and material + the warline is barely moving for months. Russia using WW2 tactics, Ukraine probably just sitting there and waiting for enough russians to die before they launch counterattacks with NATO intelligence/tactics. Ukraine have no reason to lie about their numbers, not like russians do anyway. Kremlin is not even trying to hide that they are spewing out crap and propaganda 24/7. All the smart russians left the country a long time ago.

Pls people: dont buy into Tucker Carlson's lies.. The war is a complete disaster for Russia in every way. It was supposed to be a 4 day special operation, remember?

Russia is clearly more morally wrong here, they are the invaders. Yes, it was also a complete disaster from Russia's side. They basically empowered their enemy and another potential rival China has eclipsed them. They could have worked towards an alliance with Europe but now the EU are vassals for the US for many years to come.

That's a separate issue from who is more propagandistic. The west has always had a far superior proaganda system than Russia and other dictatorships. They have a whole industry dedicated towards studying propaganda like it's a science.

On April 23 2023 10:41 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2023 08:25 Baalim wrote: yup I have to disagree with u guys, this is not another "both sides are equally bad" or "yeah... there is propaganda on both sides" conflict at all. Defenders advantage, obviously Russia lost a lot more soldiers and material + the warline is barely moving for months. Russia using WW2 tactics, Ukraine probably just sitting there and waiting for enough russians to die before they launch counterattacks with NATO intelligence/tactics. Ukraine have no reason to lie about their numbers, not like russians do anyway. Kremlin is not even trying to hide that they are spewing out crap and propaganda 24/7. All the smart russians left the country a long time ago. Pls people: dont buy into Tucker Carlson's lies.. The war is a complete disaster for Russia in every way. It was supposed to be a 4 day special operation, remember?

perhaps "Yup" wasn't very clear but im very aware that Russia's propaganda is far far worse and they are in fact losing the war (in the way the US lost in vietnam), but its also important to be aware that most pro-Ukraine things we see are also very biased, like the ghost of kiev, the guys in the isle standing up to the russians, bloated results etc.

On April 23 2023 20:32 Stroggoz wrote: Russia is clearly more morally wrong here, they are the invaders. Yes, it was also a complete disaster from Russia's side. They basically empowered their enemy and another potential rival China has eclipsed them. They could have worked towards an alliance with Europe but now the EU are vassals for the US for many years to come. That's a separate issue from who is more propagandistic. The west has always had a far superior proaganda system than Russia and other dictatorships. They have a whole industry dedicated towards studying propaganda like it's a science.

Strongly agree, Russian propaganda is transparent and anybody who isn't completely retarded can see through it, but western propaganda is much more subtle yet you see most democrats with Ukraine flags in their profiles and believe this is a war to defend poor victims and not just a proxy war against a geopolitical rival

Yeah there's a word for people who put Ukrainian flags on their profiles. It's called "Slacktivism" and it goes hand in hand with virtue signaling. From what I can tell these are people who spend 5minutes total thinking about a complex geopolitical event and then pretend to think they are some noble soul critiquing power. Hilarious. Although some are just decent people doing it unthinkingly I guess. Idk if you remember it during the whole Charlie Hebdo event or Kony 2012. They are among the worst cases i've seen of this.

Certainly the western propganda system has worked very well on me, looking back on it. And yeah, I agree it's far more subtle. A lot of it is just trying to deflect or direct attention away from an issue. You don't have to be lied to or even to beleive the lies for it to work well. Just like you don't have to use the internet to be affected by internet echochambers.

On April 25 2023 01:49 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2023 20:32 Stroggoz wrote: Russia is clearly more morally wrong here, they are the invaders. Yes, it was also a complete disaster from Russia's side. They basically empowered their enemy and another potential rival China has eclipsed them. They could have worked towards an alliance with Europe but now the EU are vassals for the US for many years to come. That's a separate issue from who is more propagandistic. The west has always had a far superior proaganda system than Russia and other dictatorships. They have a whole industry dedicated towards studying propaganda like it's a science. Strongly agree, Russian propaganda is transparent and anybody who isn't completely retarded can see through it, but western propaganda is much more subtle yet you see most democrats with Ukraine flags in their profiles and believe this is a war to defend poor victims and not just a proxy war against a geopolitical rival

Even if you regard this as a proxy war against a geopolitical rival it's still a war to defend poor victims in addition. Even if you believe that 'Putin's hand was forced by NATO expansionist aggression' then the Ukrainian civilians had no part in that.

There are some complex issues relating to this war, as with any conflict, but frankly, few conflicts have such a clear aggressor and 'more guilty' part. The line of thinking justifying Russia's actions towards the Ukraine could be used to justify virtually every American involvement in Latin America, but what you actually should do, is reject both.

I wouldn't really be quite sure that it's a war to defend poor victims. There are geopolitical analysts like Patrick Cockburn that argue German tanks being sent to Ukraine is more likely to make things worse because of escalation. I don't know what kind of diplomacy could ever be acheived at this point, it seems unlikely that any truce could be acheived. But the US, and most of Eu are not even trying that option as far as I can tell. So the actions aren't necessarily evidence for intentions of defending victims.

I also think people in the global south should have a large say in this conflict. They are suffering a lot of consequences caused by the war. Many Ukrainians want as much military support as they can get, but that doesn't justify giving what they want, as they aren't the only ones being affected Putin's invasion. An example was Zelensky wanting a no fly zone early on. You can understand and sympathize with why he'd want one, but he didn't understand the consequences of what a no fly zone would be. Ofc, he wasn't given one.

I personally think Putin's crime is morally worse than the invasion of Iraq, because of the nuclear element to it, but also because it's pushed back solving the climate crisis to a later date. Those were predictable consequences, and stupidity is no excuse. But both cases were very clear cut crimes of aggression.

On April 25 2023 12:19 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On April 25 2023 01:49 Baalim wrote:   On April 23 2023 20:32 Stroggoz wrote: Russia is clearly more morally wrong here, they are the invaders. Yes, it was also a complete disaster from Russia's side. They basically empowered their enemy and another potential rival China has eclipsed them. They could have worked towards an alliance with Europe but now the EU are vassals for the US for many years to come. That's a separate issue from who is more propagandistic. The west has always had a far superior proaganda system than Russia and other dictatorships. They have a whole industry dedicated towards studying propaganda like it's a science. Strongly agree, Russian propaganda is transparent and anybody who isn't completely retarded can see through it, but western propaganda is much more subtle yet you see most democrats with Ukraine flags in their profiles and believe this is a war to defend poor victims and not just a proxy war against a geopolitical rival Even if you regard this as a proxy war against a geopolitical rival it's still a war to defend poor victims in addition. Even if you believe that 'Putin's hand was forced by NATO expansionist aggression' then the Ukrainian civilians had no part in that. There are some complex issues relating to this war, as with any conflict, but frankly, few conflicts have such a clear aggressor and 'more guilty' part. The line of thinking justifying Russia's actions towards the Ukraine could be used to justify virtually every American involvement in Latin America, but what you actually should do, is reject both.

Yes it is, Ukranians are obv the victims and this is one of the few wars where aiding a defense is justified, but I don't think thats what the west, particularly the US wants to do, it's just perfect because its easier to gain support, but their goal is to prolong this war as long as it takes and to weaken Russia and as Stroggoz mentioned the west is not interested in diplomacy, in fact when people like Elon Musk suggested compromise and give land to Russia for peace he was heavily criticized.

I"m very against interventionism but obv intervening in this war is different than in Syria, Irak, Yemen etc which were total bs, I probably still wouldn't intervene but its a tought one.

My girlfriend lives in Belarus, and I visit her each summer, and it's not getting any easier.

Whatever happens between Russia and Ukraine, Belarus gets brought along for the ride.

Goooo Ecuador!

Sad

https://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/mont....d79f9030cf1f886e18ff50dfe9a6045b.mp4

On April 26 2023 03:43 PuertoRican wrote: My girlfriend lives in Belarus, and I visit her each summer, and it's not getting any easier. Whatever happens between Russia and Ukraine, Belarus gets brought along for the ride.

I hope she is prepared to leave the country instantly in case of emergency

On April 29 2023 03:29 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On April 26 2023 03:43 PuertoRican wrote: My girlfriend lives in Belarus, and I visit her each summer, and it's not getting any easier. Whatever happens between Russia and Ukraine, Belarus gets brought along for the ride. I hope she is prepared to leave the country instantly in case of emergency

If you visit Belarus, life seems normal there, so she isn't planning on leaving any time soon.

Belarus can't really support Russia other than letting them use their land as a road to Ukraine, which is bad, but they have no choice. Belarus' military isn't big, and they'd only destroy their own country if they ever helped Russia in the war with anything other than being a highway/road to where Russia wants to attack. As of now, Belarus has mostly stayed neutral, but we'll see what happens in the near future.

On April 29 2023 04:08 PuertoRican wrote: If you visit Belarus, life seems normal there, so she isn't planning on leaving any time soon. Belarus can't really support Russia other than letting them use their land as a road to Ukraine, which is bad, but they have no choice. Belarus' military isn't big, and they'd only destroy their own country if they ever helped Russia in the war with anything other than being a highway/road to where Russia wants to attack. As of now, Belarus has mostly stayed neutral, but we'll see what happens in the near future.

¨

Belarus wohnt join the war because their people are against the war. If Belarus joins the war, their dictator is gone and Russia's control over the country is also history.

It would be like ordering norwegians to kill swedes, even if some cruel dictator controlled our nation its obviously not going to happen. Norwegians would use the army to overthrow the dicator instead. This is what Lukashenko fears.

On April 29 2023 12:05 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On April 29 2023 04:08 PuertoRican wrote: If you visit Belarus, life seems normal there, so she isn't planning on leaving any time soon. Belarus can't really support Russia other than letting them use their land as a road to Ukraine, which is bad, but they have no choice. Belarus' military isn't big, and they'd only destroy their own country if they ever helped Russia in the war with anything other than being a highway/road to where Russia wants to attack. As of now, Belarus has mostly stayed neutral, but we'll see what happens in the near future. ¨ Belarus wohnt join the war because their people are against the war. If Belarus joins the war, their dictator is gone and Russia's control over the country is also history. It would be like ordering norwegians to kill swedes, even if some cruel dictator controlled our nation its obviously not going to happen. Norwegians would use the army to overthrow the dicator instead. This is what Lukashenko fears.

Interesting. I never thought about it like that before.

Hopefully this war ends soon.

So... Russia lost 100.000 men at Bakhmut.

...