ever consider your position as a winning gambler? - Page 3

On May 16 2007 13:27 Nazgul wrote: thats retarded

assuming you're not gonna make it... would you rather die trying or be babysat for life?

i like nazy's post, but i don't think 95 percent of people who go busto at poker are sharks by any means. Maybe at your stakes. But in general dont you think it's a lot less?

On May 16 2007 13:45 Fraser wrote: assuming you're not gonna make it... would you rather die trying or be babysat for life?

It almost seems as if you're suggesting all these people don't *try*. That's not how things such as social welfare work. They are there for the people who are trying but simply cannot make it on their own. Also, what if someone is born so mentally weak, i.e. retards, that he will never find the opportunity to get a job. Should we just let them be and see how faith is gonna treat them? What if it is your kid and you aren't rich?

It definitely isn't like I'm some sort of saint and I don't pretend to be, but I do realize that there are lots of people out there less FORTUNATE (yes we are.) than us. And some of them do need help, this is appliccable as much to poker as it is to society.

So let's imagine your mother was a very good person, helping others all her life etc, and she finally found some guy with some genetical disease. But he was so good, loving etc that they finally hooked up, made a great family. They had i child too. And now you sit there in a wheelchair, your left arm is missing and you can't even make it to the toilet before you pee yourself. Aren't you gratefull for your mother's kindness?

It's not everyone should have a chance, really. You want to be responsible if this dude who would have commited suicide if you hadn't helped him now freaks out again and takes not only his life, but say 20 others, of innocent people? Maybe kids even?
What if this bum you so want to help abused his family all his life and now when he has finally got kicked out and got what he deserved, you're going to help him? While maybe his children and wife suffer hunger?

And please stop being hypocritical.

No need to argue over it. I'll agree to disagree with you np.

On May 15 2007 20:17 KingKory wrote: I recently played some $1/2 live in Reno last weekend, and this issue sort of peaked its way into my thoughts.. Some guy was at the table, and he looked pretty fucked up (not drunk/high, just "fucked up" ). He was ~35 or so, had a wedding ring on, and some sort of maintenance worker shirt on with his name on it ("Richard", if anyone is curious). Anyhow, he dumped well over $1,100 in about a two hours. The only reason it took that long was because he made periodic stops to the ATM/cashier. He was pulling out checks and what-not. The weird thing was that he was a nice enough guy, and wouldn't get all belligerent and loud when his gutshots kept missing. But it was clear that he couldn't afford losing $1k on a regular basis as a blue collar worker in Reno. It dawned on me that if there are people like this who go outside, and walk to the casinos to blow their rent, imagine the people who are just sitting at home on their computer? I'm not saying anyone should think twice about finding any +EV spot they possibly can (I would personally punch a baby in the face for a free hamburger), I'm just saying that I'm aware. Yes, there's the whole "someone's gotta take it!" mentality -- which is true -- but don't fool yourself into believing that you're not in some way contributing to some other person's fucked-up ass addiction..

While there are people addicted to gambling on the internet, those playing poker are the great minority. Most addicts goto the casino for the rush and even then the addicts there in the poker room are no where near to those on the slots, craps, etc. The addicts who are pissing away everything are in it for the action and big score, not the nightly grind. I'm not saying this with lack of experience in live rooms, I've been putting in many hours live for about 3 years now.

Being on the internet there isn't much we can do. If a problem gambler sits at my table, I'm not going to stand up just because he is a problem gambler. I'm not contributing to his addiction either. If I get up, someone is going to take my seat. If my table breaks, he/she will get on another list. If the poker room shuts down? You'll find them at the craps table.

Point is, don't try to stick me with contributing to someone elses problem because I share a hobby they abuse. If I stake them, I'm contributing. Playing at the same table with them isn't contributing, nor is targeting them.

If you really feel that you are contributing, I would suggest next time you're at a casino it'd be your obligation to the let the floor manager know. They'll often act on it. Obviously you feel like you're contributing to their problems so it'd seem its almost your moral obligation. I personally don't think I'm contributing to it at all, so I obviously would not.

Yeah doing something about it on the poker table is useless. If you say something about it before they're broke they will punch you in the face, if you leave others will take their money. It is part of the game we like to play. There are also guys who waste their childhood trying to become a pro football player without proper odds, what are you gonna do about it?

If you want to contribute you should do so outside of poker. You can't send money back to a guy like that because they will ask you next time again and again and eventually you're not only not helping them but you are also not doing yourself any favors with it. You could send an email about this chatlog to the pokerroom, they will usually contact the guy and see if they need to permanently close his account. Try emailing pokerstars telling them you're addicted and never want to play anymore, I guarantee you you will never use that account ever again.

If someone is retarded enough to play poker for money he needs for his rent I won't care the least for him. Maybe if he has a real gambling problem or something, but if he's a non-mentally-retarded person and believes that he should be allowed to handle money I won't give a shit about him.

Also, I'm sure that I'm not the only one here that can see a lot of resemblance between the things some tilt monkeys says about us and what the evil kids from our childhood told us. Only, now I take their money instead of getting my ass kicked. It feels good, and if someone thinks that this makes me a bad person then I believe that he has a basic flaw in his ability to judge etic matters.

edit: I have, however, one or two times told tiltmonkeys to quit when they've lost a buyin or two to me on tilt-stuff, but that's only when I like the person.

Why do people always assume that what they are good at is the most important thing in the world? Someone said earlier about natural selection, and that shouldn't it weed out the thick people. Not only is that a comical basdardisation of Darwinism, but it is effectively eugenics. You are one sick twisted selfish fuck.

Of course you hurt people who can't afford it when you take their money; and it is obviously wrong in an idealistic sense. The question is simply whether you care enough. Do you care enough not to mug old ladies? - you'll probably get away with it; do you care enough not to tell someone they've dropped their wallet? do you care enough not to buy diamonds? or coca cola? whether you care enough not to play poker is somewhere on this continuum, so it only depends which side of that your tolerance for your own selfishness lies.

I didnt read through all posts so i ll just tell u about what i think.
Sometimes it bothers me a bit.

I played some micro stake SNG the last 4 days and i made almost + 80$ out of it in just 6h ....
Lots of players played so bad that i was pretty sure they are total gamblers who have absolutely no clue what they are doing.
And i feel like i am somehow not really fair towards them in some kind of sportsmanship way.

Its like playing public starcraft 1v1 Noob games while i have the experience of 10 games every day for almost a year.

I am not playing for competition ---> i am just playing to rape noobs who are skillwise noway near my level.

Concerning the money thing i am not really bothered ...
Most important rule in Poker !!!!
Nobody should play poker with money he could not afford to lose !

If he does ... its his own fault and he deserves to be punished.

On May 15 2007 21:26 Floofy wrote: its not their fault if they are retarded, they didnt choose to be born retards. There are laws to protected childrens because we know they arent fully mentally ready to take decisions(its illegal for them to gamble). But once grown up, some of them remain stupid and make retarded decisions in life.

so using that logic nothing is anybody's fault...

Hitler isnt responsable for the jew's massacre... he was just born that way...

Bullshit.



People make choices, in bussiness, in life, in poker... if they make poor ones they will get eaten by smarter people, and its their fault nobody elses.

On May 16 2007 15:03 Oly wrote: Why do people always assume that what they are good at is the most important thing in the world? Someone said earlier about natural selection, and that shouldn't it weed out the thick people. Not only is that a comical basdardisation of Darwinism, but it is effectively eugenics. You are one sick twisted selfish fuck. Of course you hurt people who can't afford it when you take their money; and it is obviously wrong in an idealistic sense. The question is simply whether you care enough. Do you care enough not to mug old ladies? - you'll probably get away with it; do you care enough not to tell someone they've dropped their wallet? do you care enough not to buy diamonds? or coca cola? whether you care enough not to play poker is somewhere on this continuum, so it only depends which side of that your tolerance for your own selfishness lies.

It seems I'm yet to understand how natural selection works. You say we are to help the weak and care about survival of inferior skills and attributes?

The second part is simply silly. You seriously see no difference between playing a game of skill on your own will and stealing?

All I said was - If someone wants to do something, which may hurt him etc. just let him do this. It should bring more good to us all than protecting him from his own stupidity.

the problem is your assumption that being less smart makes someone inferior.

the second part says nothing like stealing is ok. i was saying that mugging gran is obviously bad, other things much less obviously, and that poker is in between somewhere. it's up to you to decide how far along the scale you are prepared to go for your own gain. nothing exonerates poker winning and makes it completely fine, or pure evil.

On May 16 2007 16:20 GsOne wrote: Show nested quote + On May 16 2007 15:03 Oly wrote: Why do people always assume that what they are good at is the most important thing in the world? Someone said earlier about natural selection, and that shouldn't it weed out the thick people. Not only is that a comical basdardisation of Darwinism, but it is effectively eugenics. You are one sick twisted selfish fuck. Of course you hurt people who can't afford it when you take their money; and it is obviously wrong in an idealistic sense. The question is simply whether you care enough. Do you care enough not to mug old ladies? - you'll probably get away with it; do you care enough not to tell someone they've dropped their wallet? do you care enough not to buy diamonds? or coca cola? whether you care enough not to play poker is somewhere on this continuum, so it only depends which side of that your tolerance for your own selfishness lies. It seems I'm yet to understand how natural selection works. You say we are to help the weak and care about survival of inferior skills and attributes? The second part is simply silly. You seriously see no difference between playing a game of skill on your own will and stealing? All I said was - If someone wants to do something, which may hurt him etc. just let him do this. It should bring more good to us all than protecting him from his own stupidity.

lol lp has its own social darwinist. You reason exactly like the facists and nazis during the beginning of the last century. Just a hint, turns out that your ideas arnt all to popular in this day and age. If you fail to see how retarded your arguments are then you might just fall in the category of ppl that acording to you are too stupid and shouldnt be allowed to reproduce.

bummer, huh?

wtf are u talking about SakiSaki... the current capitalism is voracious and eats the weak

Honestly it seems no one has any choice in life, and I agree.

Your choices are made from genetic makeup and your experiences from the time you are born, choice is just an illusion.

Taking someones money through poker: You are giving them a better chance of making money when you play them at poker than they would have at almost all other forms of money investment in the next few minutes/hours. If someone does not have enough for rent would you rather they take their money invest into stock market, savings account, race track, slot machines or give them a fair chance with poker. Few hands are 100% winners so he always has a better chance then if he ran out and bought lottery tickets.

On May 16 2007 17:01 Baal wrote: wtf are u talking about SakiSaki... the current capitalism is voracious and eats the weak

our society isnt structured in a darwinistic kind of way. Most western countries build their laws around liberal ideals about each individuals right to freedom etc and that these freedoms and a market free of restrains will lead to the most benefit for all. Not ideas that we should refrain from helping struggling/poor/retarded individuals for the greater good of the human race or because they "deserve to die".

Capitalism and the free markets dynamics might in some ways seem similar to darwinistic ideas but I think its a poor analogy. Countries have social wellfare programs to help poor missfortunate people(in some countries to a greater extent than others. USA has a habit of pissing more on poor/unemployed people than say, Sweden.), if a child is born retarded we dont leave it out to the wolves and sterelize the parents. We try to give the child and its parents a as dignified life as possible.


Its also a fact that todays society isnt really empowering evolution. The smartest most talanted people go on to have a carrers, dedicating their life to work and monies while the lower middle class/working class spit out babies like madmen.

lol liberal capitalist meritocratic socialists; whatever next?