Just starting out? A word of advice

FROM STARCRAFT TO POKER - HOW TO START PLAYING AT THE 01 02 CENT TABLES
by Jelle Van den Eynde


CHAPTER 1: ABOUT ME AND THIS GUIDE
CHAPTER 2: WHAT MATTERS IN NO-LIMIT TEXAS HOLD'EM?
CHAPTER 3: THE FIRST TWO CARDS
CHAPTER 4: PLAYING ON THE FLOP
CHAPTER 5: A FINAL WORD




CHAPTER 1: ABOUT ME AND THIS GUIDE




Hey, I'm Jelle (GroT was my starcraft ID) and I've been playing poker for about a year. There's obviously a lot of players out there who are much better than me, and some great players have even written helpful books about hold'em. Recently, some excellent books have become available. Since books are most helpful when you are a beginner, I think Ed Miller's excellent book "Getting started in Hold'em" may be the most valuable book on poker available today. If you decide to purchase it, there's no further need to read this guide. I would like to add that the chapter about luck, which is towards the end of the book, should be considered the most important chapter in the book.


What follows is intended for players who learned the rules of no-limit texas hold'em but understand very few or none of the strategy in the game, and haven't spent much time playing yet. I will not talk about how you need patience or bankroll management, or what kind of table you should sit down at. I'll be talking about what to do when your cards are dealt. Because no-limit hold'em is such a complex game that features so many possibilities, it's impossible for me to give you advice on how to play each specific hand. Like I said, I'll only be getting you started. If you'd like to start playing but don't know the rules yet, I think you should study the rules first and then play a few play money hands to see if you understand the rules a little bit. Then come back and read the rest of this article.


I'll offer advice only for no-limit hold'em with 9 players. (this is called 9-handed)


If you follow all the advice in this guide strictly, you will be a favourite to win money at the lowest stakes tables ($0.01/0.02) on pokerstars. If you stick with it for a long time, you will win. However, the luck factor in poker is much bigger than you may realise. Some players (who I think are stronger than me at poker, I hate to admit it) have had losing streaks as long as 80,000 hands. If you play in a home game with your friends, you will probably play about 150 hands in an evening. At the end of the evening, the guy who won will think he is the best player. Silly, right? Anyway, You will take many unbelievable bad beats. You will take frustrating losses against terrible players, because they get lucky. You will feel as if you are the unluckiest player in the world, and no one can possibly run as bad as you. You will feel an urge to post hands where you got unlucky on this forum, just to seek sympathy. Sadly, no one will care.


The problem with this guide is that I can only give you knowledge. If you get emotionally involved after a big loss and start playing badly, you will be doomed. You may think that staying calm is easy, but if it is, then why can no one do it? I have been off my feet plenty of times, and sadly, you will be too. Make it your goal to prove me wrong! If you can retain your emotional control at all times, you will have the ultimate advantage in poker. You will be stronger than me.






CHAPTER 2: WHAT MATTERS IN NO-LIMIT TEXAS HOLD'EM?




The very first thing I want to clarify is your goal. Your goal is not to win pots. You can win twenty pots in a row, and still be playing terribly. (In fact if you win twenty pots in a row in a game with 9 players, you probably ARE playing terribly!) The game's goal is to make money. You might lose fifty pots in a row and then win a single one that makes up for all your losses and then some.


Each player gets good cards once in a while.. but the good player earns more money when he does.


Let's take our first step at analysing the game ahead of us. No-limit hold'em is a game where so many different factors affect your every decision that many beginning players overlook important information. Here are just some of the things that could affect your decision in a hand:

- What you have
- What you think your opponent has
- What you might get if you stay in the hand*
- How much chips you have
- How much chips your opponent has
- Wether or not you have position on your opponent²
- Wether or not you think your opponent is a good player
- How your opponent has played so far³
- The texture of the flop


*this is called a "draw". For example, when you hold AdKd and the flop comes 4d8d9h, you have four diamonds and a fifth one will give you a flush. This is also called a flush draw.

²you have position on someone if he has to act before you on every betting round after the flop is dealt.

³for example, if your adversary has been playing ridiculously aggressive, betting and raising every hand, it would be logic to give him less credit for a big hand.


I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about position, because it's so incredibly important and so many beginners greatly underestimate its impact on the game. When you're on the dealer button you start the hand knowing that if you see the flop, everyone will have to act before you. If you see the turn, everyone will have to act before you again. Finally if you see the river, everyone will have to act before you again. That's a triple advantage before you even looked at your cards! Every time someone acts before you, they are giving away information, and improving the quality of your decisions. You will make more money when you are in position and you have a hand. You will often pay less money to make a hand when you are in position. An example or two will best show what I mean:


Let's say you were on the button in a pokerstars $0.01/0.02 game with AhQh - a suited ace-queen. Two players call the big blind ahead of you and you raise it to five blinds: $0.10. (The standard raise is four times the big blind, but when there are limpers you should make it five blinds) Both these players are very bad and call. (this is a realistic scenario, on such low stakes most players are terrible and will readily call your raises) The flop comes Kh 7h 2c. You didn't make a pair, but you did get a flush draw. The bad players still fear you because you raised it before the flop and might have a big pair, such as aces or kings, in the pocket. Since they have to act before you.. they'll probably check if they didn't make anything or make only a small bet. (very bad players bet a small amount when they have absolutely nothing sometimes - don't ask me why - I guess they just want to put chips into the pot for fun) In fact, some players might check even when they do make the top pair on the board. Best of all, almost everyone will check to you when they have a very good hand such as three of a kind. This means you can check behind them and see if the next card is a heart for free! What a huge advantage.


Let's look at that same situation, but this time you are out of position. You are in a middle position in that same game and you pick up that same AhQh. You raise it to four blinds: $0.08. This time, that same player, who is now behind you, knows straight away that it will cost him $0.08 at least to see the flop.. so this time he folds. The second caller from before is terrible at poker and hates folding and he still decides to call, even though it's less attractive for him this time. You've only got one caller now and the flop comes Kh 7h 2c again. There will be no free cards this time. You will have to bet with your ace high flush draw + overcard and hope for the best. If he raises, you will be disgusted.



So, what matters in no-limit hold'em? A lot of things.. but most of all position.






CHAPTER 3: THE FIRST TWO CARDS




Like a lot of beginners, the first thing I noticed when I observed a game of hold'em for the first time is that any two cards can win. That's something beginners love to say, and it really is true, too. You can call the blind with a five-deuce and flop a full house or a straight, and maybe even win a big pot. So why am I about to recommend you fold the overwhelming majority of your hands even before the first three community cards are dealt? It's really pretty simple..


If you are not getting any cards you like and folding all the time, it will cost you $0.03 ($0.01 for the small blind and $0.02 for the big blind) per round to simply stay in your seat. That means you can see 9 hands for the price of 3 cents. If you win two dollars in one big pot you can fold the next 550 hands and still be up. That's a mighty lot of hands, and you wouldn't even have to wait that long if you folded everything but a wired pair of aces! Most of the other beginners at the $0.01/0.02 tables aren't waiting for a decent hand.. when they are dealt a queen-jack, they see two cards with an illustration, and you can be sure that they will call the big blind. They'll probably call your preflop raise with that hand, too. So when you are coming in the pot, you'll probably have an ace-king or even a big pair while they are playing their queen-jack.. You've already got an advantage, and you never even paid any price for that. 3 cents per 9 hands, remember?


I honestly believe that many bad players realise that they should be folding their 9-8 offsuit, but they play them anyway. I believe they don't have enough patience or discipline. Don't be one of those players.


There's another thing that makes people make bad decisions: the strength of your starting hand is not what it appears to be. For example, Queen Jack looks good because it has two picture cards. If you had a deck where the Jack was an "11" and the Queen was a "12" (no pictures), then the Queen Jack (the 11-12) would look much less good, but it wouldn't win less often. The same is true for suited cards: they are not nearly as powerful as they look. Don't allow yourself to be misguided!


Another thing about the first two cards is that you will need a hand that's a lot stronger to play in an early seat, than when you're in a late seat. Since we already discovered how important position is, I hope you'll believe me when I say that you should be playing more hands on the button than in an early seat, and by coming in for a raise with some hands - like a wired pair of jacks - that you might have just called the blind with in an early seat.


Some hands are only worth playing when a couple of people are in there with you.. let's say three people have called the blind before me already, but none of them raised. Now, i'm ready to play my suited ace - Ac2c, for example - even though it's a weak hand.. I'm trying to flop a miracle flush or the top and bottom pair or a flush draw with an overcard. When I get my flush in that spot, and there's so many people in the pot with me, it's not so unlikely anymore that one of them will call me. You won't flop a playable hand often with an A-2 suited.. I mean.. even if you pair your ace your hand is pretty worthless. But you'll get that two pair you're looking for maybe once in fifty times, and when you do.. you can win a big pot. These hands are called drawing hands. Small suited connectors, such as the suited 8-9, are also drawing hands.


But the real drawing hands, the ones I want you to be playing even when somebody has made a reasonable raise already, are the pairs smaller than queens. When you're playing a pair of jacks or lower, you've got about a one in eight chance that you will flop a set, and that's really a big hand. If your novice opponent raises to $0.08 with a pair of kings and you've got two eights and call, and the flop comes 8 4 3, you can probably win everything he has. In fact, I think even a pair of deuces is such a nice hand that you should go ahead and call with it even if no one else has yet entered the pot. Once you call the blind with a small pair, you can call again and stay in the pot even when someone makes a reasonable raise. Remember.. you're only playing because you want to flop a set. To give you a basic idea, you will flop a set about 11.5% of the time and if someone's in there with a pair of aces, he'll have only about a 10% chance left to beat your set. Whereas with a suited connector, say the 8-9 suited, you'll only flop a made hand about 5% of the time and those hands, often, will leave your opponent with a 20% or even 25% chance of winning the pot. So you can see the power of the pairs right there, they're easy to play and incredibly profitable.. all it takes is patience to wait for that set. When you do finally get that set, don't fold it! You will occasionally lose with a set, but they are big money winners. So put your money in there when you have one!


One hand that deserves some attention is an Ace-Queen in the hole. I want you to play this hand, and in fact i want you to raise with it, but only if no one has yet raised before you. It might seem like if you wanted to raise with it, and somebody else already raised it for you, you should call and take a flop.. but I'd fold an Ace-Queen pretty fast in that spot. If someone raises to 4 blinds, especially on the micro tables, they often have Aces, Kings, Queens, or Ace-King. Your Ace-Queen is trash against all of those hands, and you might lose a big pot against an Ace-King when an ace flops. Since it's so cheap to wait for good cards and Ace-Queen is so expendable, folding here is really a good idea, and the same goes for Ace-Jack suited and King-Queen suited. (I don't want you to play an Ace-Jack or King-Queen if it's not suited) But when you have an Ace-King, you can definetly call a raise in front of you. Don't reraise though.


When you manage to pick up a pair of aces before the flop, you should raise to 4 blinds just like you would if you had an Ace-King. But if someone reraises.. you can go ahead and re-reraise now. Don't try to "lure" your opponent by just calling or betting weakly with your pair of aces before the flop.



So which hands do I want you to play? I've made a small list below. I want you to play some hands only when you have a better position, because I think this "rule" will force you to pay attention to when you have position or not - and maybe after a while, whenever you're dealt a hand.. you'll be considering your position. That's my goal. I also typed a number behind each hand, and this number signifies the MINIMUM amount of people that should be in before you before you can play your hand. Again, I'm mostly hoping to force you to pay attention to these things. If nothing is mentioned about position and no callers before you are required, you can play the hand from any position. My recommendations will be really tight (play few hands) because it's a good counter to the looseness of bad players on micro or low stakes, and because new players often do much better when they play few hands..



AA (0 players)
KK (0 players)
QQ (0 players)

JJ-22 (0 players)

AKs and AKo (0 players)

AQs and AQo (0 players)
(Don't play an offsuit Ace-Queen in any one of the first three positions)

KQs and AJs (0 players)
(Play these hands only in the best position (button) and the second best position)

89s, T9s and JTs (2 players)
(Most strong players believe it's impossible for a beginner to make money with these hands. Play extra carefully and prove them wrong!)

ATs-A2s (3 players)



I want you to play any of the above mentioned hands from the small blind, even when you have a suited ace and only one players has called the blind so far. However, I don't want you to get involved with weaker hands when everyone folds to you, you are the small blind and only you and the other blind are left. In this situation, a "war" is often seen with both players getting ridiculously aggressive in an effort to bluff the other player out of the pot. Your best counter strategy to this is to try and make a big hand (such as making a pair with Ace-King on the flop) and hoping that your opponent will consider you as the usual bluffer in that spot.

I also want you to call a raise to 2 blinds when you are in the big blind and have any of the above hands. You'll only be paying half as much to see the flop and it'll be worth it even if you have a suited ace and only one person is in so far. A lot of terrible, losing players make a small raise like this when they have a huge starting hand - two aces or maybe two kings - because they want to "lure" you into the pot. As I'll mention time and time again in this text, that's the wrong way to play it. So I want you to capitalise on his mistake and take a cheap flop. You might get a miracle and win a big pot.

Try never to sin against these "rules". Every time you get a suited ace and only two people are in before you, consider it a test to you patience and fold. If you don't succeed here, you don't have any patience. And if you don't have any patience.. you're probably becoming a sucker already. If you really feel that you can't play this strictly, create your own preflop scheme just like the one I made, but whatever hands you choose to play, make sure you "stick to the plan". For example, you could include King-Jack suited and Queen-Jack suited to your list of playable hands when someone has entered the pot already. My advice however, is to fold them if you can muster the discipline.






CHAPTER 4: PLAYING ON THE FLOP




In the previous chapter, I was able to describe into detail what you should do in most situations, because there are only so many different situations you can run into before the flop. Once the flop is dealt.. it's a different story. There's such a huge amount of different situations that I can't possibly do much more than give some basic guidelines to get you going in the right direction. The flop is the most important part of the game in no-limit hold'em, and I hope I can give you some helpful tips.


One mistake I see a lot of beginners make is to chase their draws every time they get one. They know that when they have two clubs in their hand and there's two more clubs on the board, it will only take one more club on the next card and they'll have a flush! A great hand that will win showdowns almost every time. I only want you to check out the next card if it is cheap to call compared to the size of the pot. Let's say someone bets $0.02, the minimum, into a $0.16 pot. A lot of bad players like to make small bets to "lure" you into calling. When you have a flush draw, that's exactly what you want them to do, and you should definetly call the $0.02 looking for another card of your suit on the turn. This is because if you have a club flush draw (or any other one) there are 9 cards of your suit (9 clubs) left in the deck. The next card off will be a club 20% of the time. Since he bets $0.02 into a $0.16 pot.. he's betting less than 20% of the pot. That's why you're happy to call.


So how did I know it was 20%? First, you count your outs (cards that you think will make you win the pot). In this case, you think only the 9 clubs left in the deck will give you the winning hand. Now we multiply 9 by 2, getting 18. We now add this number to 2 getting 20.. that's the percentage: 20%. So it's simple really: number of outs times two plus two.


Another situation when you have a draw is when someone else bets enough to put you all-in. Let's say you were high on drugs and misclicked and called a $4 raise before the flop with a suited King-Queen. (Like I said in the last chapter, I don't event want you to call a $0.06 raise with this hand) The flop comes J-T-2 rainbow (rainbow means three cards of a different suit) making you an open ended straight draw. Any of the four aces or nines in the deck will give you a straight. That's 8 outs. Now, the original raiser bets his last $1 (he had $5 to begin with like you) and you have to decide to call all-in or fold. Since calling will ensure you to see both the turn and the river card, you now have two chances to make your draw for the price of one. The chance you'll make your straight is about 32%. How did I know that? Again, it's pretty simple.. multiply your outs by 4.. that's the percentage. So, since you have about 32% chance to win the hand and it costs you $1 for a chance to win an $10 pot.. it's a definite call.


However, if your opponent, as I recommend, makes big bets - bets of about the size of the pot - when he bets, you shouldn't call with your flush draw. If it costs you $0.10 for a 20% chance of winning a $0.20 pot, I want you to fold your hand. This is called "pot odds", and it's the system I want you to use when you have a flush draw. If you spend some time here at liquid poker in the hands section you'll notice that almost no one is that strict with their flush draws.. almost everyone will readily call without the proper pot odds. But it takes experience to recognise when you'll get paid off if you make your draw, and when you'll just win what's in the pot already... and experience is exactly what you lack. So don't follow the example of the other, more experienced players here.


I personally think you can be a lot less strict with straight draws if the bettor has a lot of money left. Since straight draws aren't nearly as obvious as flush draws, that raiser might not be scared of you when you make your straight. You might win another big bet from him if you do make your straight. This is called "implied odds", and it's what I want you to be considering when you have an open ended straight draw. Don't take this concept too far however.. calling too often with draws might be one of the most costly errors beginners make. So when you've got a straight draw, you actually want your opponent to have a really strong hand, so that he'll call your future bets if you make your straight on the next card.


Another little tip about draws is that I don't advise you to call with a flush draw when there's a pair on the board (because somebody might have a full house already) and I definetly don't want you to call with a straight draw when there's three cards of the same suit on the board. Somebody might have the flush already.. and even if they don't, one of them surely has a big card of the same suit in the hole, giving him a flush draw and killing some of your outs.


When there's just three cards of the same suit on the board and you have the flush, you can go ahead and assume that you have the best hand and get as much of your money in as possible. When there's four cards of the same suit on the board and you have a flush, you really need to have the nut flush - with the biggest card in that suit - to accept big bets.


But enough talk about draws.. if you play the hands before the flop I recommend, you might make a big hand sometimes. You might call with a pair of nines in the pocket and hit another nine on the flop. In fact, if the board would be 9c 8h 2h, you'd have the absolute best hand possible! You might call with the suited 5-4 when there's a lot of action and flop a traight right away! Whenever you make a big hand and feel very confident that you have the best hand.. I want you to come out and bet right away. Don't check trying to fool your opponents into thinking you have nothing.. not even if you saw the movie "rounders" where everyone plays like that all the time. The simple fact is, they're not going to call unless they have something or they think you're bluffing. And you can't win a big pot by making small bets.. you've just got to come out heavy. In this situation, and in any other situation where you decide to bet.. I want you to bet the entire size of the pot. So if there was a raise before the flop, you called with a pair of nines and got the nut set, and the pot was $0.27.. I want you to come out right away and bet $0.27. The original guy who raised it might have a big pair.. He might play back and raise you. And when he does, I want you to go ahead and make an unreasonable re-raise because that novice player is going to call anyway, and you'll have him almost drawing dead. If you follow my advice, you'll notice that quite a few of your big hands won't get paid off and you'll feel like I've given you bad advice. Deep down inside you have a slow-play reflex and you will feel like making smaller bets or checking when you have a big hand, just like every other micro stakes player. So i'll say it again, because this is the most important advice in this entire article. If you only learn one thing from this text, let it be this: bet, raise and reraise your strong hands strongly, don't slow-play.


So what kind of hand should you feel comfortable with on the flop? When you have the top pair on the board and the best or second best kicker.. you've got a pretty good hand. As long as nobody in there does anything to scare you, you're best off assuming you've got the best hand, and you should bet it. That's why Ace-King is such a nice hand.. once in three times you'll catch another ace or king on the flop, and you'll have the top pair with the top kicker when you do. When you have the top pair with a smaller kicker, you could check and hope nobody else bets. If someone bets, you should fold. Let's say you've called with your jack-ten suited and you make the top pair of jacks (that means there's no queen, king or ace on the board) you really haven't got a very good hand. But when everyone checks and the turn comes a meaningless card, you can probably assume you have the best hand. When you've come into the pot with a wired pair - let's say a pair of queens - and the board has no card higher than queens, you should be confident even though you didn't make your set, and you can go ahead and bet. If somebody gets scary and raises you're really in a tough spot, because if they have you beat (let's say someone has three of a kind) there's only two cards left in the deck (two queens) that can help you improve to the best hand. However, if someone really had your big pair beaten, they would have almost certainly called on the flop, setting a trap. It's definetly less scary when you get raised on the flop, than when you get called on the flop and raised on the turn. The ultimate scary situation is when you bet on the flop, get called, bet again on the turn, and the opponent makes the minimum raise. If you have a big pair, fold without hesitation. This is how your opponents play their big hands. Don''t become one of them!


Similarly, there is the situation where you have raised before the flop and only one person calls. The flop comes and instead of checking, he comes right out and bets. Whenever someone does this, I assume that this player does not have a set. If he had a set, wouldn't he have checked it, setting a trap? The answer is almost always yes. If I do meet someone who takes the lead with a set, I immediately give him a note, saying that he did. You must consider the possibility that this player is a fellow shark.


Another mistake a lot of beginners make is to start out bluffing right away. When you're starting poker, you're usually going to play micro or small stakes. Since people call so often on the small stakes, it's really pretty foolish to go off and try to bluff them. Remember: great players can't make bad players fold hands.. the bad player is free to do whatever he wants to do. Good players just bluff when they think the other player is pretty likely to fold. If your opponent isn't likely to fold.. you shouldn't bluff him. For this reason, it's perfectly possible to beat the micro stakes without ever bluffing. However, if you have a home game or for some other reason you know one of the other players and you know he's really a pretty good player, you can probably bluff him. Every good player can be bluffed. A common spot to bluff against such a player is probably when he checks it to you twice and you can act behind him. Since you have position, all you have to do is bet and he'll probably fold. Remember: whenever you're going to bet, I want you to make a big bet of about the size of the pot. Since you do the exact same thing when you have a big hand, it's tougher for anyone to put you on a bluff. Another common spot where almost everyone bluffs is when you raise before the flop and completely miss the flop when it comes. Now, a lot of players will make another stab at the pot on the flop by betting because the opposition might be affraid of a pair of aces or kings and give up the pot. Oddly enough, this is one of the only bluffs that has a fair chance of success even against a sucker.. If you ignore my advice and decide to bluff for some reason (hopefully because you run into a good player who can be bluffed) you should never bluff at a person twice in the same pot. If you bluff at a person on the flop because you thought he was weak and he calls, well, he just proved you wrong. He wasn't weak.. he's got something he likes. And unless you improve your hand greatly, you shouldn't try to bluff him out of the pot again. It's his pot.


Something most beginners don't seem to notice is that the "texture" of the flop can give away a lot of things. Obviously a set of nines is stronger when there's no straight possible. You'd rather have a pair of nines when the flop is 9-8-2 than when the flop is 9-8-7, because somebody might have a straight. Another thing is that people are more likely to have a hand when something like a J-T-2 flops. A King-Queen will make a straight draw, a Jack-Queen will make a pair, an Ace-King and an Ace-Queen will make a gutshot straight draw, etc. Whenever a sucker gets a hand like a Q-J, he'll play it. For this reason, when it flops A-K-T it's a lot more likely that one of them has the straight, than when a 6-4-2 flops.. because even a sucker will probably fold a 5-3. Always remember though how the player got into the hand. If he just checked it in the big blind, he could have anything! If he raised it before the flop, he's a lot more likely to have really big cards.. etc. For this reason, it's so important to pay attention as much as you can and remember what everyone else did so far in the hand.


One more tip I'd like to give is that you should always remember how big the pot was when the flop was dealt. It really takes a big hand to win a huge pot (everything the other guy has) if the pot was small in the first place. That's another reason I like to make big re-raises if I get a chance with my pair of aces or kings before the flop. If someone calls and the pot is already very big when the flop is dealt.. I might be able to win a big pot now, even with just one pair.






CHAPTER 5: A FINAL WORD




As you can see, many things haven't been discussed. Maybe some of my advice is wrong and my head hurts when I think of all the exceptions there are to the guidelines I've given. My only hope is that you are better off now that you've read my advice, than you had been if I had never written it. I honestly hope you improve to the point where this text becomes a joke to you and your own knowledge is vastly superior.

Good luck.

I already posted this a long time ago on team liquid, I figured I might be able to help people out by posting it here. Sorry if I'm annoying anyone by copying my own thread!

good job GroT , it will be very helpful for beginners.

thanks =] I'm actually wondering if it would be worth doing an article like this for tournament poker (for beginners too)



would anyone be interested?

GroT can you write guide about poker vocabulary , I and lot of other begginers don't understand many words.

why don't you just post here when you find a word you don't understand, and i or someone else will tell you what it means

Grot I've already found website with some poker jargon )

On November 20 2005 18:27 IceEight wrote: Grot, I would be interested in a guide on tourney play

okay if a couple of others show any interest i'll write one

On November 20 2005 18:37 JinKazama23 wrote: Grot I've already found website with some poker jargon )

okay cool

I will be interested in any poker guides so feel free to do it

I always like to see how other people think about the game. Write write write!!

On November 20 2005 17:32 GroT wrote: why don't you just post here when you find a word you don't understand, and i or someone else will tell you what it means

cos that would be extremely embarassing. maybe in PM

GroT , I've heard that if you are counting outs , after multiply by two you add one , not two i know it doesn't make difference

On November 20 2005 20:03 seapal wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2005 17:32 GroT wrote: why don't you just post here when you find a word you don't understand, and i or someone else will tell you what it means cos that would be extremely embarassing. maybe in PM

no that would not be


GroT and one more question for you , are you always counting outs and make this percentage ?
I'm asking becouse i'm little bit confused , I dont have enough time in hand to count it :D

I'd definitely read a tournament guide. I like playing SnGs better than the .01/.02 tables.. I seem to win more often as well, but I'm just not solid enough to win consistently yet, so a tournament guide would be great.

In the tournament you need much more patience

Seapal, you shouldn't be embarassed if you don't know terms. Everyone was new at one time. However, if you don't want to post on the forums here, I wouldn't mind if you PMed me.

On November 20 2005 20:20 JinKazama23 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2005 20:03 seapal wrote:   On November 20 2005 17:32 GroT wrote: why don't you just post here when you find a word you don't understand, and i or someone else will tell you what it means cos that would be extremely embarassing. maybe in PM no that would not be GroT and one more question for you , are you always counting outs and make this percentage ? I'm asking becouse i'm little bit confused , I dont have enough time in hand to count it :D

no it's what i'm recommending new players to do to practice


it's not very often that i have to use math

GroT , when you would write this tournament guide ? I'm really impatient cus im playing a lot of this stuff and i need some advices

haha I'll try to have one written out in a few days

okay, im waiting bro

[edit] nm

I'm interested GroT, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Going into your advice column, I was like "haha glad im not a beginner, haha sux for them" but then once I started reading I was like "wtf, this makes sense and I never thought of it that way...I am a beginner even though I've been playing for like 1 year real-life and online, wow."

So, Basically I'm open to any and all advice given by anyone...


By the way, wanted to know the exact definition for "fish" please. TY~

Grot you are such adorable person.<3

Thanks, Grot. I found this very informative, though there are still some terms that I'm a bit sketchy on. I'm hoping to get into poker very soon.

Hi, im new to this :$ seems really complex but ill try my best to understand! I'm trying to do a full transition from BW to poker! gl me !

Grot is hot!

never heard of starcraft, hehe

thx grot, i'm going to try and be more patient and not be a sucker

On November 26 2005 08:17 thomas wrote: never heard of starcraft, hehe

you lived in a cave?

On November 27 2005 06:15 Tycho wrote: thx grot, i'm going to try and be more patient and not be a sucker

ok just lost all my money

i quit poker

Nice.
It helps a newb like me out a lot.
I like how you call the other people "suckers." =p

On November 27 2005 08:16 RobbieV wrote: Show nested quote + On November 26 2005 08:17 thomas wrote: never heard of starcraft, hehe you lived in a cave?

i don't know why but this cracked me up [=

GroT where are you , and your next guide

nice post GroT...read it and found it helpful

:O Great post GroT, this will be very helpfull 8D~

Nice to see a fellow Startcraft player on here writing about his knowledge of the game..Im 9mm on Starcraft..I appreciate the strategies and stuff u have written about and look forward to your Tournament Guide coming out..GOGOGO stop sitting there and reading this WRITE WRITE WRITE lol..

my tourney guide is almost finished and already available here

thank you very much grot

yes, nice article grot, thx.

---quote---
JinKazama23 United States. November 20 2005 20:15. Posts 234 PM Profile Buddy Quote
GroT , I've heard that if you are counting outs , after multiply by two you add one , not two i know it doesn't make difference
Nobody loves me
---/quote---

hm although i am just a newbie poker player, i think i understand math enough to say all these eqations are just aproximation that are easy-to-use. but i think the exact probability value that u get sthg after flop should be counted like this:
probability = outs/47 + outs/46
where 47 is the number of cards u cant see (ie 52-3communitycards-2pocketcards = 47; after turn 47-1 = 46)

On December 03 2005 13:53 Joe wrote: i think i understand math enough to say all these eqations are just aproximation that are easy-to-use. but i think the exact probability value that u get sthg after flop should be counted like this: probability = outs/47 + outs/46

This is a joke, right?...

actuall odds calculation only comes into play a few times really, and when they do it'll be a similar situation enough that you can pretty much just know the odds by heart. IE, how likely to complete a flush or a straight or overcards or a runner runner possibilty etc (ok the last example really only happens in really really loose limit games).

tomson - why joke? Am I totally wrong or what?

well i may be, i just dont know, if i am, just tell me pls

Lets say you have 25 outs that let you win.

If I use your formula it would be like this:
probability = (25/47)% + (25/46)% = 53% + 54% = 107%

ok i was totally wrong
and what about 1 - (47-outs)/47 * (46-outs/46) ?

25 outs? what kind of poker are you playing tomson?



skimmed through the text and updated some -_-;

taking the odds to hit and multipling by 2+1 is an approximation of the % of chances to win the hand
Ex. KK vs 99, 99 has preflop 5*2 + 1=11% chance of victory roughly

I found this article to be very interesting. Although I'm not particularly a beginner, I surely am not a professional. It really helped, thanks for the advice!

nice looking out

thnx man, nice info

wow thats alot of writting, far too much for me to read. Heres my advice its simple really.

Think and Wait.

Whatever happened to that tourney guide GroT

On November 30 2005 08:51 GroT wrote: my tourney guide is almost finished and already available here

i tried to make one a while ago, don't know if it's worth anything though... this one is better

very nice

I agree with most of what you said in the beginners guide. But, the beauty of this game is that there is no "right way" to play it in many situations. You must play according to what the table/player is offering at the time. If you are getting pot odds...go. If it is an overly aggressive table then play your rags. You will get paid off. Situations such as these take the average player to above average and beyond.

Poker is a game of inches or should I say dodging donkeys that suck out?

if you cant spot the mark....
btw low limits is mechanic,thats why its sad

can u explain how counting outs and multiplying by 2 then plus 2 equals the percentage chance?

All you have to do is count your outs and multiply by 2, and do +2

On April 20 2006 01:12 proxi.nextgen wrote: can u explain how counting outs and multiplying by 2 then plus 2 equals the percentage chance?

It's because there are roughly 50 cards in the deck when the outs are counted. 2 outs is 4% of that 50. So that's why you multiply it by two. 2x2 = 4%. However, when going in it a bit more accurately, there are something like 45 to 47 cards in the deck. The +2 is just a constant that someone pulled out of his ass to get the approximation function to be as close to the truth as possible.

Of course it's not accurate and by no means correct, but it gives accurate enough answer. Usually the +2 isn't even necessary as if it's about that 2% in there, then it's just speculation and probably some runner runner draws make enough deviation there for it to be unnecessary anyway. Remember that it's just an approximation.

Like someone said, the real probability comes from:
probability = 1 - chance of the outs NOT hitting
and
the chance of the outs NOT hitting = ((47-outs)/47) * ((46-outs)/46) (For two cards, obviously just (47-outs)/47 for just one card {turn} [and (46-outs)/46 for river])

How to calculate hand odds (the longer way):
Total Outs / Remaining Cards

FORMULA : Flop to River % = 1 - [ ((47 - Outs) / 47) * ((46 - Outs) / 46) ]
Turn to River % = 1 - [ (46 - Outs) / 46 ]

To change a percent to odds:

FORMULA : Odds = ( 1 / Percentage ) - 1

------------------------------------------------------------------
How to calculate hand odds (the shorter way):
The shortcut is, after you find the number of outs you have, multiply by 4 and you will get a close estimate to the percentage of hitting that hand from the Flop to the River. Multiply by 2 instead to get a percentage estimate from the Turn to the River.

and % to odd :
FORMULA : Odds = (100 / Whole Percentage) - 1

You should not calculate pot odds from the flop to the river and instead calculate them one card at a time.To calculate your odds one card at a time, simply use the same odds that you have going from the turn to the river.

much better explanation on http://www.tightpoker.com/poker_odds.html

hope i help you

I will follow your guidelines to the T and post my results here. I will play .01/.02 no limit on Pokerstars. I am willing to lose up to 50 bucks doing this. I won't post my hands, but I'll post my statistics. 50 bucks allows too much luck perhaps, but regardless I'll experiment.

If I win money doing this I'll split the profit with you GroT 50/50.

SIKE. (However if I lose the 50/50 stands). lol

On April 22 2006 23:02 Bene wrote: I will follow your guidelines to the T and post my results here. I will play .01/.02 no limit on Pokerstars. I am willing to lose up to 50 bucks doing this. I won't post my hands, but I'll post my statistics. 50 bucks allows too much luck perhaps, but regardless I'll experiment. If I win money doing this I'll split the profit with you GroT 50/50. SIKE. (However if I lose the 50/50 stands). lol

rofl would be interesting if people would want to make sidebets whether you'd make it or not :D

love sidebets <3

good luck Bene (although I don't think you'll need much luck)

oh and remember to start out with $2 or more at each table so you can break people when you flop sets or other big hands (i don't know if i mentioned that in the guide)


if you buy-in for a small amount my guidelines won't work

That's an easy sentence to put in a guide: ALWAYS MAX BUY-IN. If you're a winning player you want as much chips to put in as you can.

nice, very important to my game

So GroT, you really recommend folding every hand not mentioned in your list ? e. g. Ace 10 unsuited or JQ suited/unsuited?

at those stakes there is no point in getting involved in a hand with a hand like JQ, you can play JQs tho imo.

On May 13 2006 04:45 wirthi wrote: So GroT, you really recommend folding every hand not mentioned in your list ? e. g. Ace 10 unsuited or JQ suited/unsuited?

yes i do... but if you wonna play some extra hands (not QJ though) you should just choose a position from which you'll play the hand and then stick to it


when you are starting out, which is what this thread is for, you should use some strict rules to create a little "discipline" (and i guess it does take some discipline to fold QJ for $0.02)

On May 15 2006 08:56 GroT wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2006 04:45 wirthi wrote: So GroT, you really recommend folding every hand not mentioned in your list ? e. g. Ace 10 unsuited or JQ suited/unsuited? yes i do... but if you wonna play some extra hands (not QJ though) you should just choose a position from which you'll play the hand and then stick to it when you are starting out, which is what this thread is for, you should use some strict rules to create a little "discipline" (and i guess it does take some discipline to fold QJ for $0.02)

Yes, it does.

Since I love your RWAs I will take your advice :-)

If you don't know what an RWA is: "My name is GroT, I am a famous RWA maker."

If you don't know this quote you are too young and never played Monkey Island.

i really loved this article but id ont agree for exmaple when you say that when u have the best ahdn is better to bet the pot-size, i think is better to bet 1/3 of the pot size so they will be liekly to call, took it fromn phil little green book

ur guide is very good and describes abc poker. Where are the differences now when u move up stakes. Lets keep it rather low what would you say the differences are in ur opponents at 25nl 50nl and 100nl and what do you need to do in order to adapt to these differnces.

yea made merealize few things i did not see in books

rofl that famous rwa maker quote is gonna follow me forever

thx Grot

yea thank you i hope you make one more.... :D

If your playing the tournaments on party and you have superior stack over other player and he goes all in don't be afraid to go all in if you got a premier hand.
I found 75% of the time the higher stack will win regardless of cards.
I think the software has a weighting system that allows the tournament to finish faster by getting rid of the low stack players.
Try it and i bet i'll prove you right

when an irish guy says "yoke" wtf does it mean, theres this guy in my class at uni and he alwys says that and i have no idea wtf hes talking about

On May 24 2006 09:23 petrassi wrote: If your playing the tournaments on party and you have superior stack over other player and he goes all in don't be afraid to go all in if you got a premier hand. I found 75% of the time the higher stack will win regardless of cards. I think the software has a weighting system that allows the tournament to finish faster by getting rid of the low stack players. Try it and i bet i'll prove you right

(whenever you see someone post something like this, it's obviously bullshit)

Nice

On May 15 2006 14:54 Logiabs~ wrote: i really loved this article but id ont agree for exmaple when you say that when u have the best ahdn is better to bet the pot-size, i think is better to bet 1/3 of the pot size so they will be liekly to call, took it fromn phil little green book

thats wrong, that is for tourneys and its very dependant on the texture of the board.

you might have the best hand ona Qd5s6s flop but betting 1/3 its just retarded that is a veeery useful guide.


I remember when i first read this i was like wtf... folding KQ utg!?!?!, now i fold AQ utg.

Baal - yeh - i'm the same - lol - i'm like w/e i'm not folding KJ or QJ in EP/MP - they are the sex! But i can fold AK in LP now in certain situations without even thinking twice about it! Thanks again Grot for writing that guide - originally i think it was to help me out!

EDIT: I had about $50 when you wrote that - now i'm well over 1K at 25NL - so i guess it helped

Definitelly this is the most useful thing ive ever read, i came knowing absolutely NOTHING about poker and this guide give me the tools to beat microstakes.

this is something all new players should follow withouth second guessing if they should fold QJ or KJ.

nice work grot, funny too read a poker guide from an old vGl- member on liquidpoker xD

old??? still vgl nigga

clap clap grot ... after doing awesome RWA, u teach poker bases perfectly !
I feel like when i read testie's guide when i first start sc

Just wanted to say that I started playing yesterday by your guide and I'm about 1.8 dollar + so far. I also got 10 out of 1935 in some rookie freeroll mostly on luck. So like, thanks a lot! That guide helped.

What to do when you just lost two 20dollarpots to dudes who hit quads and houses on the last card? Should I just kill myself or cry myself to sleep?

when that happens twice it should be no problem... it's when it keeps happening like twenty times in a row, and that will happen sooner or later when you keep playing, that it's really hard to stay calm

you should look at it as an opportunity to prove that you are that one in a million player who is unaffected by bad streaks and keeps his cool (I know I can't do that yet but i retry every time)

they're talking about disney songs in the other thread to avoid tilting, maybe that will work for you? haha

haha, I hate disney^^. I'll just play freerolls for a while and get some rules down on how much $ I'll play with ever week. When I lost I got even madder and keept even more to your guide, I'm a bit proud of that.

btw, errh, am I right to assume that one should play a lot looser in freerolls and tours and such since you won't win anything unless you get a decent stack kinda fast?

GroT, your guidelines rock!!! I was playing like a total idiot before and of course, sometimes winning big but usually giving it all back! The game moves slow but youre almost guaranteed to win every session!! Thanks bunches!!!

holy shit it's grot the famous rwa maker

would it be right to make this call?

I have eight dollars chip stacks and in the sb i was with ako, i complete, the bb goes all in for a dollar, and then the limper goes all in for a dollar..

i'm getting 3:1 here, (did i do math here right?)

would it be right to make this call?

On August 12 2006 16:23 jon166 wrote: would it be right to make this call? I have eight dollars chip stacks and in the sb i was with ako, i complete, the bb goes all in for a dollar, and then the limper goes all in for a dollar.. i'm getting 3:1 here, (did i do math here right?) would it be right to make this call?

lol another "i have oods" question

it makes no difference how many ppl go all-in even if you win you will win big you will win less often if theres a lot of ppl in the pot.

As ntt said if all the table goes all-in preflop and i have AA last to act, i'd fold because its very likeley somebody will beat your aces.


your question is too general, you didnt even say what stakes or reads on the players

On August 12 2006 18:38 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2006 16:23 jon166 wrote: would it be right to make this call? I have eight dollars chip stacks and in the sb i was with ako, i complete, the bb goes all in for a dollar, and then the limper goes all in for a dollar.. i'm getting 3:1 here, (did i do math here right?) would it be right to make this call? As ntt said if all the table goes all-in preflop and i have AA last to act, i'd fold because its very likeley somebody will beat your aces.

ahahahahahahahahahah

i wouldnt fold AA here at the wsop, let alone any online game. Does NTT play freerolls?

On August 12 2006 20:37 TwistedEcho wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2006 18:38 Baal wrote:   On August 12 2006 16:23 jon166 wrote: would it be right to make this call? I have eight dollars chip stacks and in the sb i was with ako, i complete, the bb goes all in for a dollar, and then the limper goes all in for a dollar.. i'm getting 3:1 here, (did i do math here right?) would it be right to make this call? As ntt said if all the table goes all-in preflop and i have AA last to act, i'd fold because its very likeley somebody will beat your aces. Variance is way too high imo, even if its EV+ someone run it on pokerstove ahahahahahahahahahah i wouldnt fold AA here at the wsop, let alone any online game. Does NTT play freerolls?

it's always -EV to fold AA pre flop in a cash game, no matter what happens behind you because you're always getting the right odds to call no matter how big an underdog you are.

On August 13 2006 00:33 Yugless wrote: it's always -EV to fold AA pre flop in a cash game, no matter what happens behind you because you're always getting the right odds to call no matter how big an underdog you are.

yeah obviously but lets say its like folding AA on a freeroll qualifier...

you simply cant say EV+ caaaallll!!! since it wont happen again you cant think of future expect value and the variance is just huge.

The only time I would fold AA is if I was in a satellite and was guaranteed to make it in. This is Sklansky stuff. The exact same situations will rarely occur, but if you always make the +EV decision you have to make money in the long run. Folding AA pre flop always offers negative expected value, so it is a mistake.

but what if you can see the future

On August 13 2006 07:52 Yugless wrote: The only time I would fold AA is if I was in a satellite and was guaranteed to make it in. This is Sklansky stuff. The exact same situations will rarely occur, but if you always make the +EV decision you have to make money in the long run. Folding AA pre flop always offers negative expected value, so it is a mistake.

yeah but you gotta think about variance too.


there was a thread in the past where people were asked if they would put their entire Bankroll on AA preflop, most ppl (with big brs ofcourse) said NO, but why???
its definitelly EV+!... yeah but variance is a bitch and you dont want to risk that kind of money for that edge.

lol because its their WHOLE bankroll.


why risk that 20% (likely...) loss with your whole bankroll when the whole point of having a big bankroll is to make that 20% loss useless in the long run.


it is in no way +ev since you CANT PLAY EVER AGAIN IF YOU LOOSE

My advice would be
1. never slowplay. Strong and overbet monsters.
2. play 1 table first. Make notes how ppl play what starting hands, how much they gamble. So u start putting ppl on hands
3. have no fear.

On August 13 2006 16:30 lucifer wrote: lol because its their WHOLE bankroll. why risk that 20% (likely...) loss with your whole bankroll when the whole point of having a big bankroll is to make that 20% loss useless in the long run. it is in no way +ev since you CANT PLAY EVER AGAIN IF YOU LOOSE

the question also applied for 50% of their BR... they still said no.

On August 12 2006 20:37 TwistedEcho wrote: ahahahahahahahahahah i wouldnt fold AA here at the wsop, let alone any online game. Does NTT play freerolls?

You wouldn't fold AA at the WSOP with 8 people allin? I'd say you have a better chance getting far in the tournament by folding. Not sure though but tournaments are not a cash game. Your AA would be like what, 15% to win? 85% chance of getting knocked out of the tournament at the first blind level.

probably a bit more than 15% (if I may believe the HSP hand rating thingies). When like 6 people were in the overpair still had like 40~50% chance of winning pf.

i'd sure call that in the wsop but i guess if you're a very good player it could be okay to fold

it's called expected utility. the expected utility of your first $100000 is much more than your 2nd $100000 after you double up with AA

but if you win you are the instachipleader come on that's gotta be worth something

Hmm, just something I was thinking about. I play at some server (unibet.com) where most of the cash games has like 5-6 ppl in them, should I raise with say AQ of more often then since the risk of AK/AA is lower or is it still the same old tight play? I figured that I should probably play more hands since the blinds hits me more often, but I can't really decide which hands that would be better. Suited connectors would probably lose value since it's fewer ppl in the pot, right?

when you're just starting out with poker just imagine that you were in a full game but the first three players have already folded and now the action is to you in seat 4 or whatever


also most people loosen up way too much... 6 handed tables are often like some sort of contest where everyone wants to prove that they are the loosest and then the tightest player walks away with their money. You will get lots of action on your good hands

ok, sounds good. Btw, I hit my first straight flush earlier today. 27 off from big blind...

On August 13 2006 17:25 wolfheart wrote: My advice would be 1. never slowplay. Strong and overbet monsters. 2. play 1 table first. Make notes how ppl play what starting hands, how much they gamble. So u start putting ppl on hands 3. have no fear.

Don't play one table at first. It just gets you bored and you do dumb shit as a result.

happy to be here

welcome lol

thanks for the great article! i've played a little poker/blackjack in casinos before, but never practiced it extremely seriously. i guess im gonna take LP.net up on the $75 party poker offer and try and put your strategies to use. thanks for the help

On August 17 2006 05:00 GroT wrote: but if you win you are the instachipleader come on that's gotta be worth something

yes but you can always pick better spots to accumulate chips

On August 16 2006 05:53 Nazgul wrote:      [removed quote within quote] You wouldn't fold AA at the WSOP with 8 people allin? I'd say you have a better chance getting far in the tournament by folding. Not sure though but tournaments are not a cash game. Your AA would be like what, 15% to win? 85% chance of getting knocked out of the tournament at the first blind level.

actually AA has 31% equity in 10 way allin preflop vs 9 random hands. if you have 9 people allin in front of you its not unreasonable to assume a lot of their ranges are close enough to random because theyre drunk or something. anyway obviously you never ever ever ever ever fold a 1 in 3 shot to multiply stack by 10 :|

edit: i think wsop was 10handed if i remember correctly. AA is ~34-35% in 9way allin pre

wow i never tought AA would be so high in a 9 way

imba hand

thx for the guide
im just having problem folding QJs or KQs =(

Kacas if you want to play those two hands, then decide in advance from which positions you play them and stick to it. At the very least, fold them in the earliest positions. This will help you learn discipline and you'll need that later on

the problem is that playing only AK..etc...i play like only one hand in 15minutes..(in 4 simultan tables) and then the flops is something like 7910 rainbow..and always someone bet or 2 guys betting and then im supposed to fold...

so i play minimum hands and the few i play i fold 80% of the time...and when im not folding...i just cant win tha "big pot" ...so at long run im losing money..to blinds..etc..


edit: actually im not losing money...but after 2 hours i won maximun of 1 dolar...knowing that at sng out of 4 tournaments..2 i always in the money being waaaaaaaay more lucrative.
im just playing tables coz os the 700haked hands...

Well you can still limp all the pocket pairs.

And you can be agressive in late position too, thats a good thing to practice at any level. Just be tight in early positions. If everyone limps to you on the button by all means raise kq and qj.

the micro limits have actually gotten tougher.. I am not so sure anymore if anyone can beat $0.01/0.02 NL by simply following this guide. I am considering taking it down. What do you guys think?

It helped at least a few people get started, so I don't regret that I wrote it. But maybe it is not useful anymore

are you freaking kidding me? they can easily destroy 01/02 if they follow those rules.

These thread helped me so much and it has helped doznes of players do not take it down.

nobody is good enough to pass AA with any amount of players allin early in a freezeout

It helped me a lot when I started out, and I've moved up to NL50 a few days ago after starting out with 50 USD this summer so I guess it's good. It seems really tight though, so I'd suggest that you put up a few more hands that ppl could play. Like a few more suited connectors and maybe AT or something, at least from late pos. I'm playing 6-max though so I might be biased.

well i'm trying to get someone started at .01/.02 and he is having some trouble.. i sat down with him for a while and the tables really did change a lot.. of course it's still not a tough game but still.. compared to when i started they are pretty tough

Yea well, I guess one has to have some basic post-flop skills too. Maybe ad some general guidelines about not chasing to much and something.

i started usuing this guide a week ago with $5.67 in my account. as of this morning Im up a bit over $80, strictly from this guide and multi-tabling .01/.02 FR. THANK YOU GROT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's your answer. Keep it up.

for me still not working...winning very few bucks
but im playing on 0,2 0,4 on pp~

--- Nuked ---

this is a very old post... but i started with this guide also, turned playmoney into around $4k (includes all the cashouts, etc etc)

im raping $50NL nowadays

i think this guide is perfect, its extremely nitty, that how a poker player should start, they should be the ultimate WEAK TIGHT, theyshould be fold happy and set hunters.

After they get some experience they will loose up developing their own game, but that is the best way to start from scratch.

The limit got really tight out of nowhere. It's certainly possible a new player playing by these rules won't win on 5NL anymore. I can easily say this guide has made me a couple grand.

On December 05 2006 08:58 warsumm wrote: i started usuing this guide a week ago with $5.67 in my account. as of this morning Im up a bit over $80, strictly from this guide and multi-tabling .01/.02 FR. THANK YOU GROT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this amount expected?
I made 15 bucks in 3 weeks.

That's a little slow I think.
Every full day, I make 5-20.

i think the guide is still awesome

u should update new stuff to it and add like random tips or something

like... betting sizes and putting opponent on a hand.

and also i notice that a lot ppl like to play full stacked 250bb as a newb, due to this forum constantly saying "buy for a full stack nub". all it does it make the game harder

yeah probably it might be better to play for 100bb for the couple of thousand hands.

it's funny but after reading the guide, i went back to 10nl coz i started at 100nl playing out of luck and pure instinct(underrolled) lost alot of money in the process and realized i have to go back where everyone good really started and learn discipline, which is for me the most important part in learning to play poker. now im really doing well winning like 5-7 buyins for a couple of days now. i dont say i follow the guide but it really opened up my eyes to what i was really doing wrong. thanks grot.

I tried to make some updates, I hope this helps


in my opinion it was easier when i started, than for those of you who are starting out now

100% agree grot. Btw, this has done its job. I'm curious as to how much money this guide has won people. Bravo.

On December 05 2006 17:02 goodguysm wrote: Show nested quote + On December 05 2006 08:58 warsumm wrote: i started usuing this guide a week ago with $5.67 in my account. as of this morning Im up a bit over $80, strictly from this guide and multi-tabling .01/.02 FR. THANK YOU GROT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this amount expected? I made 15 bucks in 3 weeks.

nah it's not, some people are luckier than others. (Not saying he's not playing well) just be patient and it will be a piece of cake to move up limits

I wanna bet money that you can win money at a sample of 10k hands at 10nl 9max tables by only playin according to this strategy any takers?

win how much with 10k hands

dont bet money with a micro stakes grinder

Im sayin you can win ($5or more)/1000hands so for the sample of 10k hands so $50 or more. Or make it $100 or more for 20k hands at 1c/2c tables. (Which is 25BB/100) but the 1c/2c