Did I play this KK too weak?

Okay so here goes. I think I might've been a bit too weak with this guy... No specific reads, he just joined the table - no stats on him either.

Submitted by : Muhweli

PokerStars Game #4727606824: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/04/24 - 06:44:05 (ET)
Table 'Elektra V' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: arising ($48.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Hunter1984 ($28.65 in chips)
Seat 4: Muhweli ($110.65 in chips)
Seat 5: TobiasKran ($73.90 in chips)
Seat 6: matman549 ($20.65 in chips)
matman549: posts small blind $0.25
arising: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards
Dealt to Muhweli
Hunter1984: calls $0.50
Muhweli: raises $2 to $2.50
TobiasKran: folds
matman549: folds
arising: raises $2 to $4.50
Hunter1984: folds
Muhweli: raises $7.50 to $12
arising: calls $7.50

Flop (Pot : $24.75)

   
arising: bets $3
Muhweli: raises $7 to $10
arising: calls $7

Turn (Pot : $44.75)

   
arising: checks
Muhweli: checks

River (Pot : $44.75)

   
arising: bets $5
Muhweli: calls $5

The flop raise is mainly for value. I didn't try to push him off the hand.

push river. why would he bet only $5 if he had QQ or JJ if you were showing so much strength preflop and flop? he must've had AQ (right?)

edit: 2nd thought, if he is a tricky player maybe he has AA, but if thats what he had I don't understand why he wouldnt push flop.

i dont see how you can raise this river, you only beat AQ and AK here

what'd he have?

hmm i would raise the river though

On April 24 2006 04:00 Pokerintheface wrote: i dont see how you can raise this river, you only beat AQ and AK here

This is exactly what I thought, but not sure if I could bet the turn.

On April 24 2006 04:01 Rocks2BeGood wrote: bet turn. raise river.

What range of hands do you put him on after raising EP raiser preflop, then calling a rere-raise?

preflop, flop ok.
i bet turn for value: 15$-20$
if called i check behind river. if raised and with no reads on him, i better fold.

yeah i just had a quick look im reviewing it now, sec

hmm well actually i like your line untill the river, his bet screams weakness so much there, i would prolly put him on 1010 or maybe ak or aqs...

It is a tough one, but i would definately want so see where i am at. I dont like his play at all, could be aa or qq though. KK is a bit unlikely because you are holding this. I think he is a donkey either way

i think value betting the turn here is donating chips, sorry for my previous error .

how do you not reraise that $5 river raise OMFG I think you should bet the turn and river = all in. Im assuming retardo showed down AQ or some medium PP like TT-88.

I like the preflop play but post flop play is terrible IMO. This guy has given you no reason to doubt your KK is no good here. Without a read and the given stakes this is 100% push --> every <-- single time.

Im sure even BB would push here. (maybe not push but definatley reraise)

I think KK is beat.

I've seen lots of fishes betting stupid weak with very strong hands.


It's so disgusting when you raise them hard with second nuts just to see they minbet the nuts all the way...

KK isnt the second nuts it's not even close

it's like the 15th nuts, just call the river and show it down, you don't beat AA or QQ or JJ here

i think he either had AQ, JJ, or AK

the advice you guys are offering is retarded - why do the majority of you assume he always has AA - JJ, why does he always flat call AA preflop according to you guys. This is absurd. One thing you also should take into consideration is what's given "he just joined the table" A lot of dumbasses have egos and hate being bullied and will call raises with a large variety of hands.


Also you think someone who is retarded enough to min raise preflop is smart enough to smooth call preflop with AA? I doubt it, you need to develop better conceptual thinking before considering a true hand range.

First. I gave no advice.

Second. Who said KK was second nuts poke... I was talking about hands I have played in the past with fishiiiiesss.

On April 24 2006 05:44 TalentedTom wrote: A lot of dumbasses have egos and hate being bullied and will call raises with a large variety of hands.

I'M THE TALENTED TOM BIAAAATCH

rofl
it's hard to play it any weaker, so it's funny that you ask that

Here, I dig up some HH from 3-4 months ago.

Submitted by : TalentedTom

PokerStars Game #3680744162: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/01/18 - 20:04:24 (ET)
Table 'Aeria' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: aardvark13 ($18.40 in chips)
Seat 2: mfreenet7 ($34.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Roppongi ($44.15 in chips)
Seat 4: TalentedTom ($68.55 in chips)
Seat 5: battlinbaker ($42.95 in chips)
Seat 6: straate ($66.65 in chips)
Seat 7: franco0115 ($38.70 in chips)
Seat 8: E40TOPI ($35.60 in chips)
Seat 9: oktoplay ($38.10 in chips)
franco0115: posts small blind $0.25
E40TOPI: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TalentedTom ]
oktoplay: folds
aardvark13: folds
mfreenet7: folds
Roppongi: folds
TalentedTom: raises $2.50 to $3
battlinbaker: raises $2.50 to $5.50
straate: folds
franco0115: folds
E40TOPI: folds
TalentedTom: raises $10.50 to $16
battlinbaker: calls $10.50
*** FLOP *** ]
TalentedTom: bets $52.55 and is all-in
battlinbaker: calls $26.95 and is all-in
*** TURN *** ]
*** RIVER *** ]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TalentedTom: shows ] (a full house, Kings full of Deuces)
battlinbaker: shows ] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
battlinbaker said, "nh"
TalentedTom collected $83.65 from pot
TalentedTom said, "lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $86.65 | Rake $3
Board ]
Seat 1: aardvark13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mfreenet7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Roppongi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TalentedTom showed ] and won ($83.65) with a full house, Kings full of Deuces
Seat 5: battlinbaker showed ] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 6: straate (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: franco0115 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: E40TOPI (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: oktoplay folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I ask because with the given action, I put him on nothing less than JJ+. Obviously I assumed too much of the player and I would've felt a lot more comfortable pushing it all the way if I had some info on the player. For all that I know, he could be some nutpeddler dood who is scared of 7x on that board with QQ. Many players are either weak tight or loosepassive and when either of those bets, it's usually trouble.

Now it wasn't the case with this players for the showdown, I just couldn't help but to laugh. He wouldn't have called much more, but he might've called some.

Don't really see why you didn't reraise river? Looks like a pretty obvious blocker bet, I think you should make it $15-20 on the river.

dont push river only what u can beat is AQ and lower pair
AA and QQ both fucks u

show results

Oh good lord.... reraise that river pleeeaaassseeeee....... everytime, all day, everyday.

I thought I had made a post in this topic already, strange.

Tom, if you think your hand is identical to his with exception of the player you're sadly mistaken. Your hand had a pot of $32 on flop against an opponent with $27 left. You are out of position Muhweli is in position. How the hell can you even compare those two they are so different it's not even funny. In fact the ONLY thing they got in common is KK reraised preflop on Qxx flop. There is no fucking way you could have slowed down with your KK because of pot/stack-size and position.

And about the hand itself I really like the way you played this. Check on the turn is good, calling on the river is normally your best option in most of the cases. However for this one in specific it just screams (as GoodKarma already said) blocker bet and a value reraise is definitely an option. If you reraise here it will have to be purely for value and can't be too big at all. The board is not only scary for you - but if he doesn't have you beat for him as well. $15 would be a good number. And I repeat normally flat calling here is a fine play.

Alrighty. He wouldn't have called though, he showed down 44. (Or maybe he would've lol...)

Either way, I didn't see much merit into raising against an unknown. I like to have as much info on the players as possible before doing anything rushed. I play only 3 tables so I generally have quite good idea what is going on. I would ofc get a call from AQ, maybe AJ, but what if he goes and pushes? I cry and call. Anyway, knowing what he had, I obviously should've played it more aggressively, hoping to get value. Maybe I'll reraise a bit more on flop and see how it goes from there.

LOOLOLOLAHAHAHHA please raise next time.

Yea so what I've gotten this far is to probably raise the river for value. Apparently Naz is the only one to see the reasoning I behind playing it the way I did. The river I should've raised, foshoo.

JohnnyBologna, was that so intuitively clear or was that a reaction to what I said he had?

I am laughing because i dont know what you are afraid of. The only hands that had you beat were far from likely. Next time please take into consideration of what your opponent is betting. 3 dollars on flop and 5 dollars on river doesnt exactly scream qq or jj. The fact you could even considered him having a 7 is ridiculous. You raised to 10 or 20 dollars or wahtever preflop to eliminate these odds and now your scared of him hitting quads. He couldnt have made it any easier for you to take his money.

Wtf are you talking about Bologna dude...he could easily have JJ or QQ, he re-raised preflop.

oh no he reraised preflop!!

just dont say anything.

Raise river for value to $15
Raise flop way more (like 18)
PF and turn play are great