genocides and extremisms existed long before WW2 and will continue to exist long after we're all dead, after all, chances are a hateful dude will get enough power at some point in time
P.S. video above.. watch it, i hate youtube videos too but this one s good
Last edit: 12/10/2017 18:07
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deathstar United States. Oct 13 2017 03:46. Posts 111
On October 11 2017 06:50 Stroggoz wrote:
who is dr peterson? anyone semi famous?
Jordan Peterson. You been living under a rock or something? They call him Dr. because it makes him sound more important than he really is.
based on my 2minute reading of his wiki page, he seems to have an ego problem.
he does not, he jumped to fame because he refused to use those retarded pronouns (xer, they etc) for the 64 genders, as a psychologists he felt it caused more harm than good to the individual and opposted bill c16 that sadly now passed in Canada that makes it mandatory under law, now you can go to jail if you misgender somebody.
ladder > fence, free pizza
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Oct 13 2017 12:44. Posts 3096
All I can see is that discriminating based on gender identity is made illegal. I really can't see anything that indicates that you can go to jail (or even be fined) for using the wrong pronoun, that seems like some deliberately misleading bullshit right there. You can be punished for actual discrimination like refusing housing or services to someone because of their gender identity, or for actively inciting hatred (this is stuff like the edward norton american history x speech, it's not stuff like 'To me he is still a man and I'm gonna keep calling him he because I'm just that type of asshole'). I see a bunch of right wing tabloids make the same claim, but it really doesn't seem to be grounded in reality.
lol POKER
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Oct 14 2017 04:33. Posts 5329
All I can see is that discriminating based on gender identity is made illegal. I really can't see anything that indicates that you can go to jail (or even be fined) for using the wrong pronoun, that seems like some deliberately misleading bullshit right there. You can be punished for actual discrimination like refusing housing or services to someone because of their gender identity, or for actively inciting hatred (this is stuff like the edward norton american history x speech, it's not stuff like 'To me he is still a man and I'm gonna keep calling him he because I'm just that type of asshole'). I see a bunch of right wing tabloids make the same claim, but it really doesn't seem to be grounded in reality.
i read it as well, and i agree. It's just adding transgender to the list of people that is illegal to discriminate against. I don't think hate speech should be a crime though.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
Except that people have been already persecuted under billc16 for misgendering people, a cop was fined 15k for example, look it up.
The problem with the law is that its too vague, it does not define Gender identity and Gender expression which is huge, and also it doesnt limit itself to inciting violence like Drone believes, quoting from your link:
Hatred is predicated on destruction, and hatred against identifiable groups therefore thrives on insensitivity, bigotry and destruction of both the target group and of the values of our society. Hatred in this sense is a most extreme emotion that belies reason; an emotion that, if exercised against members of an identifiable group, implies that those individuals are to be despised, scorned, denied respect and made subject to ill-treatment on the basis of group affiliation
Section 319(1) makes it a criminal offence to incite hatred against any identifiable group where this is likely to result in a breach of the peace. Section 319(2) makes it an offence to communicate, except in private conversation, statements that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group, whether by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means.
those are absurdly vague, also here is a vide of a trans girl speaking against billC16, and unless you believe she WANTS to allow people to lynch her or deny her housing you are probalby missing something:
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Oct 14 2017 10:54. Posts 3096
Yes, she was also referred to as Jeffrey and 'misgendered' and that might have had an impact on the ruling, but I'm inclined to believe that's mostly because it makes it far more likely that the refusing access to medical care (related to her surgery) was done for malicious reasons. Like say you illegally cut off someone in traffic, say it's a guy who 'looks gay' and there's an investigation and it's revealed that you, while talking about the incident, said 'look, that fucking faggot in his queermobile drives like a fucking woman', then that piece of dialogue is gonna count as evidence that you are more likely guilty than not, but you're not punished for using the word 'faggot'.
I'm pretty damn certain 'misgendering' happens all the fucking time tbh. Like, I dunno what percentage of Canadians identify as trans. Googling tells me it's something like 0.5%, but that probably includes people who aren't really open about it. Let's say it's a super tiny number, like one tenth of that, 0.05%. I think that would give us something like 50-60k transgender canadians. My experience is that while acceptance varies depending on region, it seems very likely that a significant portion of transgenders frequently receive some type of negative comment, where 'misgendering' is really low on that list. If people were actually fined or went to jail simply for misgendering, there should, logically, be literally thousands of such incidents every year. Hell, I think if you have a group of 50-60k transgenders, there are probably going to be literally thousands of 'misgendering'-incidents every day, many of them accidental.
I can't watch youtubes now. I'm also not saying the bill is perfect in every way. I'm just saying that 'you can go to jail for misgendering people' doesn't seem accurate at all.
Also, hate speech is a difficult subject to me, one I think is extremely difficult to police, but I'm also not comfortable with manipulating idiots to do violence on your behalf being legal, so I feel there must be some type of law in place, but I'd like it to 'virtually never' be applied. This is also what I feel is currently the case, and even if you can find individual cases where hate speech is too strongly regulated, it doesn't really prove anything - 'western' countries have like 700 million people living in them, of course there can be fuckups.
"Your gender identity is not just up to you -- it's a negotiation with society" (4:20 in the video)
You can just replace "gender identity" with the right to abortion or the right to die and this is what those reactionaries believe too. It's not just up to you because you're a citizen and you might be wrong! (Ok they are not really that humble, they know you're wrong (The Big Book says it). Doesn't matter that she's trans, she's just as misguided and alarmist as the other reactionaries. Her next point is also bs. It's not about expecting people to be more accepting of trans people as a result. It's because our justice system is built on deterrents -- they work and we know they work. And when they work they prevent a lot of suffering.
She also argues that we don't know enough about gender identity to have it into law, but this is beside the point: the essential is that people who don't identify as cis male or female should be protected from discrimination like every other minority group. I think the general trope offered as a counter-argument on this is essentially just a slippery slope fallacy and an argument ad absurdum. I don't see what the big deal is. Just don't talk to the damn person who wants to be called "zer", why the fuck do you care? It's hardly even conceivable to think you'd come into contact with that person if you despise them, let alone need to use their chosen pronoun. Assuming you'd be in such a situation, you could just not be a dick? Give the person the benefit of the doubt that they're not out to just fuck with you? "But I have the right to be a hateful dick!" then take your chances, no one's stopping you. To me this is just a case of siding with the oppressed because it's always the right thing to do. You're not suddenly oppressed because there are now risks for you to discriminate against someone you don't like. I really don't think the way this law is written right now, intolerant (but harmless) idiots will be harmed because they don't respect a trans or queer person. It's if they are deliberately trying to harm the person that they will be punishable by law.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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They call him Dr. because it makes him sound more important than he really is.
