should i fold the nuts?

1/2 NL
suppose you have 10 8, flop came 97j with 2 clubs. first person bets 20, the other person goes all in , and the 3rd guy goes all in too, you are sitting there with the nuts(so far). would you consider folding?

most of time you are up against flush draw(the first bettor might call with his flush draw)or some sets. or 2 pairs. would u guys consider folding that straight vs 3 other people's all-ins?

flush draw is only about 17% chance of falling?????? he is on the draw not you jesus! go allin

On January 03 2006 02:10 Rocks2BeGood wrote: flush draw is only about 17% chance of falling?????? he is on the draw not you jesus! go allin

man 3 people all in on that board, mostly likely u r facing a set, flush draw and other shits.. still 2 cards to come, u could easily be out-drawn...

So what, if you are drawn out to then you face a bad beat. Folding the nuts is like folding away free money.

if you play poker like that you will never win money.

I know what you mean but... no matter how little of a favourite you are, you should always (in ring games) get as much money in as possible when you're in front.

Yeah...you're totally forgetting the fundamental theorem of poker. Let's suppose you call the all-in AND the guy who led out for $20 calls it too, and you're all 4 all-in. Then you're probably up against, say, two flush draws and a set. Then, here are the winning percentages:

T8: 41%
JJ: 36%
AcKc: 21%
4c5c: 0.1%

You therefore expect to win 41% of THREE STACKS. Just because you don't win a majority of the time doesn't mean you can fold here. You are playing poker to win MONEY, not POTS.

Let's consider when you're up against two sets and a flush draw:

T8: 42%
JJ: 24%
99: 5%
AcKc: 29%

Now you're STILL winning over 40% of THREE STACKS. This is the easiest call I've ever seen in my life. And, like BigRed said, if you actually consider folding here, you'll never win any money.

EDIT: Woops, 3 :D

You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable.

You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again?

On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again?

wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

On January 03 2006 02:08 abrasive-x wrote: 1/2 NL suppose you have 10 8, flop came 97j with 2 clubs. first person bets 20, the other person goes all in , and the 3rd guy goes all in too, you are sitting there with the nuts(so far). would you consider folding? most of time you are up against flush draw(the first bettor might call with his flush draw)or some sets. or 2 pairs. would u guys consider folding that straight vs 3 other people's all-ins?

If it's rebuy tourney and the rebuy period is not over - definately all-in.

If it not rebuy go with your read on players.

A lot of people pushing with junk, but you can be assured one of them has flush draw.

I'd called all-in.

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

Ahhhahahhahhhhahahaahhhahhahhahahahhhahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahahhhh. *dies to laughter*

wow.............. abrasive you are an idiot. Quit playing poker... for real. Or, come play with me at stars : ).

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

hahahah

i pity you.

wtf is this ?? rekrul needs to be made mod, TL style

NO! No Rekrul! ;D

But Abrasive could be cleansed from among us by some other admin.

yes thats true ! and why calling erwin a dumbass??? because he is right????

nice fish, just lose your money and come back whining

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

How can someone possibly be this stupid? Is there an ignore option on this forum? I don't want to read this nonsense anymore.

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

Don't come on this forum as a fish and ask for advice and then tell people they are wrong. You aren't an underdog at 40% can you not understand numbers?

Abrasive...if you don't understand pot odds and expected value, then you really can't have a clue how to play winning poker. Just look up these topics for an explanation of why you absolutely HAVE to call here.

P.S. You're right about the fact that you don't have 40% equity against a set, a FD, and a higher SD (you only have 25%). Even then, you're about breaking even. So you absolutely HAVE to call here, because in one rare case you are breaking even and in all other cases you expect to win a lot of money.

This guy is trolling or really stupid.

hahaha gave me a good laugh this did :D

I thought I read in new forum rules trolling wasn't allowed?

I think he's just a dumbass.

i think he wants something or wanna be the first in something

he cannot be first at what you thinking about

if hes just randomly trolling why don't the mods just ban him?

the only time i see folding the nuts as viable is when the board is like

KcQcJhTh, and you have Ad2s or something, and the pot is $1 and someone pushes for $100

And they win at poker
Mama I want to play more and more and more and more and more and more...

lmao!!!!

2 week ban

its not a bad question. just like those who ask who should fold AA. in fact this situation is exactly similar to when u should fold AA.

also, i'd fold the nuts if its likely someone else has it with a redraw and the pot is small.

fold quads

IF YOU HATE MONEY YOU FOLD, IF YOU LIKE MONEY YOU CALL.

in omaha ive folded the nuts
in hold em, you should quit if you do

rofl wtf is this?

there is one occasion when i would consider folding the nuts

lets say you have T9 and after the turn the board is AKQJ with 2 flush draws. suppose neither of your cards is in the suits on board.

now say into smallish pot your opponent goes all in. id fold here out of fear of freerolling him.

Folding nuts on that kind of board is stupid, folding nuts on one of the few examples given above is wise ;D

And in Omaha, nuts might still be the underdog to win in the river (I've learned this the expensive way).

Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #3515241814: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/01/02 - 20:53:44 (ET)
Table 'Wempe' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: bgbjr ($131.15 in chips)
Seat 4: Daut44 ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 9: toomanyclubs ($100.75 in chips)
bgbjr: posts small blind $0.50
Daut44: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Daut44 ]
toomanyclubs: folds
bgbjr: calls $0.50
Daut44: checks
*** FLOP *** ]
bgbjr: checks
toomanyclubs leaves the table
Daut44: checks
*** TURN *** ]
bgbjr: checks
Daut44: bets $2
bgbjr: raises $8 to $10
Daut44: raises $87.50 to $97.50 and is all-in
bgbjr: calls $87.50
*** RIVER *** ]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bgbjr: shows ] (a straight, Three to Seven)
Daut44: shows ] (a flush, Queen high)
Daut44 collected $196 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $197 | Rake $1
Board ]
Seat 2: bgbjr (small blind) showed ] and lost with a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 4: Daut44 (big blind) showed ] and won ($196) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 9: toomanyclubs (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Yea this is perfect example of what we're talking about, he should only call if he had the flushdraw himself

but neither of u had the nuts

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

this is just....too much for me to handle

On January 03 2006 10:02 thrawn wrote: but neither of u had the nuts

Quite irrelevant since the situation could be for example KQJT double suited flop where you hold the ace.

Not too much difference anyway.

yes bigballs but that is another situation, you explain why you do it because 2 flush draws when you dont have any of that suit makes the chances of a flush a hell of a lot bigger! this guy was just talking about folding the nuts when he only could lose if the board paired :O

Yea people here are talking about WHEN TO FOLD THE NUTS and not the idiotic question represented by Abrasive-Donk.

hahahahahahaha

Anyway, to make a contribution to the topic, I've seen a discussion about finding an example (quite complex) of AA having 0 outs preflop... Although that needed 11 or 12 opponents IIRC to really have 0 equity, it was pretty funny :D

abrasive is a GENIUS
hahahaha

reading abrasives comment hurt my brain
and catyou that is a cool situation to try to make... im going to try to come up with that later

Catyoul, Intuitively sounds something like AA vs AK vs AK vs the rest pocket pairs, some will get set ;D Dunno. Should think it over probably.

what are you all laughing at, this just makes me cry

Many sad things are funny.

what the fuck is this

rofl i just told nazgul we should consider banning abrasive


then i read page 2

On January 03 2006 07:53 Taveren wrote: its not a bad question. just like those who ask who should fold AA. in fact this situation is exactly similar to when u should fold AA. also, i'd fold the nuts if its likely someone else has it with a redraw and the pot is small.

What do you mean? AA is the nuts preflop, so you never ever fold it preflop, except in a weird case in a tournament, e.g. a 5-way all-in in front of you, seven-handed at the final table or something. In a cash game, you can only fold AA preflop if you hate money . After the flop you're usually WA/WB, so you figure it out and act accordingly.

Good point about the redraw in a small pot.

Daut44 your lucky 6-8 didnt call you there ;0

On January 03 2006 10:29 Muhweli wrote: Quite irrelevant since the situation could be for example KQJT double suited flop where you hold the ace. Not too much difference anyway.

It is so fucking relevant.

The guy should never ever ever ever fold 86 there.

On January 03 2006 03:04 abrasive-x wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2006 02:54 Twisted wrote: You need at least a 25% chance of winning against 3 stacks to make this profitable. You have more than 40%, what the fuck are you trying to make some point here? Or just trolling again? wtf u talking about dumbass. since u have 40% chance to win, it means you are the underdog... it doenst matter how many people are in it. vs a set, a flush and a higher straight draw with the 9J possibly, i dotn think u have 40%anymore.

OK I'm going to explain this with an extreme example.

Lets say that I had a 10 sided dice (cause I'm a geek that role plays). Anyhow, if it comes down 1-4, I give you 100 BILLION Dollars. If it comes down 5-10 you give me 1*10^ -5000 pesos.

Would you take the deal? What you would??? WTF YOUR AN UNDERDOG! You must be fucking crazy!

But seriously though, you've got to understand this to win at poker.

abrasive if youre reading this plz dont post dumb shit after i defend you makes me look bad

i do have a question on topic though

On January 03 2006 08:15 BigBalls wrote: in omaha ive folded the nuts in hold em, you should quit if you do

What if you had JcTc on this board board: 3d As Ks Qd

for simplicity sake ignore blinds and say pot is $100 at this point with one other player in the pot and both you and him each have $950 left (1k - 50 each put in the pot). if he goes allin on this turn and shows you JsTs wouldn't it be more EV to fold?

totally theoretical and probably unrealistic, but i had to ask

of course fold

but as you said its not realistic

funny shit

On January 03 2006 13:01 Catyoul wrote: hahahahahahaha Anyway, to make a contribution to the topic, I've seen a discussion about finding an example (quite complex) of AA having 0 outs preflop... Although that needed 11 or 12 opponents IIRC to really have 0 equity, it was pretty funny :D

im really interested in this, AA would always win with an AAx board ....so you must cover a lot.
both other aces must be dealt, as well as nearly all cards of the two AA colors, and also any low board must connect with other card s to beat the AA.
you still know where to find this? i'd really like to see...

Here's an example :

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ad 0 0.00 98280 100.00 0 0.00 0.000
Ac Ah 5326 5.42 92954 94.58 0 0.00 0.054
Kc Kh 48 0.05 97874 99.59 358 0.36 0.002
Ks Kd 0 0.00 97922 99.64 358 0.36 0.002
Qs Qd 22572 22.97 75708 77.03 0 0.00 0.230
Js Jd 17484 17.79 80796 82.21 0 0.00 0.178
Ts Td 12846 13.07 85434 86.93 0 0.00 0.131
9d 8d 9867 10.04 88413 89.96 0 0.00 0.100
7d 6d 8420 8.57 86300 87.81 3560 3.62 0.104
5s 4s 9391 9.56 88889 90.44 0 0.00 0.096
3s 2s 4935 5.02 93345 94.98 0 0.00 0.050
7c 7h 3473 3.53 91247 92.84 3560 3.62 0.053

bump

ABRASIVE X IS DUMB

am i too late guys

hahaha