Elky breaks the rules - Page 12

Few simple points, as Travis, Nazgul and some others pointed out most important things already.

1) If the want to flip, go ahead, join a heads-up table and flip whatever you want. Or get a fucking coin in the air.

2) I they're doing this while being completely aware of it being -EV (sick point btw Mr. Daut), why do they care to actually make things like fold some hands in case there's some action? To gain some ev, obviously.

3) So they take some actions together, ie. one of them decides whether his hand and previous action make it good to shove, while having in mind that if he shoves, someone is going all-in with any two. Even if their actions prove to be -EV (ie. they end up owning themeselves) - they are clearly colluding.

4) Reporting things like that is essential to having good, clean community, where newcomers don't feel like they're being cheated out of their money (even if they're not), and it decreases the gray area. Like, let's say they didn't announce this to other players, would it be collusion? I guess you'd say it would. Now they do announce this, however - the change may (I'm not sure) not be that important, so they end up with an edge anyways. Now it's not colluding, because they clearly stated, that they are going to fuck you in the ass?

And as with most things - do as the rules say, if you break them don't be surprised you are punished, and don't hate on someone pointing out your behavior to authorities. Most of the time this works just fine, and grass annalogy is completely off here.

On September 21 2008 07:33 Nazgul wrote: It definitely EV to go allin every hand in tournaments with a lot of entrants. If it's EV for one player in the field it means the rest of the field loses some EV. A lot of people want to play the rebuys without paying shittons of rebuys so to please the masses, the same masses we all make our money off, stars invented this rule. Of course every good tournament player thinks its a bad rule because they are losing EV from it. Personally I think it's a bad rule as well because if you want to limit your rebuys why not play a freezeout or a rebuy+addon tournament. Anyway at least I can see why stars did it, it's to please 90% of the field which is obviously more important than a few winning players. If fish continue playing on your site the winning players will come too. The rule makes perfect sense for poker as a whole. There's more rules in sport & games created for commercial purposes that might lower the value of the game but in the end are positive for the people who want to make money from it. This rule, by keeping the bad players happy, is thus in essence a good rule for anyone who wants to make money from poker. Stars wouldn't have invented this rule if they didn't think it would attract more bad players to their site. More players is good for us. While I'd rather see this rule removed, once the rule is put in place it is very very important to punish people for breaking it. Elky broke this rule trying to gain EV. He (likely) did not know about the rule; why would a PS pro break the rules on his own site. But he did gain an advantage by breaking an existing rule , wobbly really is not the only one who reported this, dozens of people emailed stars about it so wobbly played an irrelevant role in this. Someone who reported another player breaking the rules should not receive massive shit for it, nor should he receive praises. In wobblys case I believe he really considers this colluding (which its not - it's simply not knowing the rules) so I don't blame him for reporting it and neither should you. As Elky is not informed about rules, wobbly is not informed about the true effect of going allin every hand. It happens. The post and calling it colluding publically are over the top some shit may be received for this. When you call something colluding you better do some research on it before posting on a forum about it. It would have been cool if he didn't report him from a community/friends perspective, but this attitude of allowing everything your friends are doing is exactly why so many people do cheat for real, and these people do know the rules usually. This is a minor issue but it happens in a lot of serious cases too such as the multiaccounting tournament regulars. The social checks in the poker community are worthless and this is the lowest level it starts at. The fact that this rule exists simply means it has to be followed and people not following have to be punished, regardless of the rule almost. People should not be given the impression it's ok to break some rules in poker as long as you personally disagree with them. Because this is exactly how people get sucked into believing they can break the rules on all kinds of levels.

I think although what you said about stupid rules like these ones needing to exist is true, there's still a lot of gray area about the necessity of reporting every case. For example, speeding is a rule that definitely needs to exist (or else everyone would be driving superfast and cause lots more accidents etc), but if wobbly was in a car with his family, and his dad was speeding by a few miles, do you think he would call the cops and report his dad? No, and that makes him a huge hypocrite.

On September 21 2008 11:50 Pacifist wrote: Sure elky may not have directly contribute much to this forum, but he indirectly contributed the world to LP. AFAIK he was the very first one to get into poker, and it was he who got rek, naz, meat, etc all into poker... which then started LP and made it into what it is today.

Sure he got into poker first. While grinding low-stakes he needed noobs to rip off and to make money from so using Starcraft geeks was a perfect way to commercialise this whole thing that later started as "Liquidpoker". Stupid fairy tales like making tens of grands while not caring about Starcraft at all etc. I mean how many of the ppl here are actually from teamliquid.net? A website that used to be great, small little community that has grown into a business. "Stairway to heavenly gates of poker".

Got everybody else into poker too, yeah. Right. How many people lost their money because of that? "Elky now lost 14k, look what you have done by reporting him". I dont even want to wonder how much money has been taken because of him and the false "ideology" created to even create this particular website. Because the people who came here and gave away their lousy bucks are actually the ones who got this thing started.

As said this is rather business now than community and Elky had an advantage. So in a business, its totally normal action. Hate it or love it.

Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers

ONE TIME PLZ, HOLD
HOLD
HOLD
HOLD

On September 21 2008 03:37 milkman wrote: Dude elky was a memeber of this site long before almost all of us.. he helped build it into what it is today. You learned poker from this site (and possibly others).. And you just decided to be a HUGE douche bag to him for no reason. Then start a post to brag about it? HES ON YOUR TEAM!!!! WTF HOW DUMB CAN U B? ima go ahead and quote my self from a long time ago Show nested quote + On November 04 2007 23:52 milkman wrote: r u fucking kidding me? get the fuck outa here with this shit... do some shit when im this mad IRL and ill rip ur fuckin head off. thats a promise. HOLD 1 TIME!!! dont dodge me in pca!

On September 21 2008 12:18 mysoul wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 11:50 Pacifist wrote: Sure elky may not have directly contribute much to this forum, but he indirectly contributed the world to LP. AFAIK he was the very first one to get into poker, and it was he who got rek, naz, meat, etc all into poker... which then started LP and made it into what it is today. Sure he got into poker first. While grinding low-stakes he needed noobs to rip off and to make money from so using Starcraft geeks was a perfect way to commercialise this whole thing that later started as "Liquidpoker". Stupid fairy tales like making tens of grands while not caring about Starcraft at all etc. I mean how many of the ppl here are actually from teamliquid.net? A website that used to be great, small little community that has grown into a business. "Stairway to heavenly gates of poker". Got everybody else into poker too, yeah. Right. How many people lost their money because of that? "Elky now lost 14k, look what you have done by reporting him". I dont even want to wonder how much money has been taken because of him and the false "ideology" created to even create this particular website. Because the people who came here and gave away their lousy bucks are actually the ones who got this thing started. As said this is rather business now than community and Elky had an advantage. So in a business, its totally normal action. Hate it or love it. Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers

Elky has for the most part been way ahead of the new teamliquid microstakes followers, myself included. Has he EVER sat at my table? nope, has any of my money ever made it to his pocket? I highly doubt it. Elky shared his passion with others who shared his starcraft passion, and he helped Rekrul, Giyom (Grrr), Meat, Naz, etc... get to where they are. Elky has done way more for this community, and he never would have "ripped people off"

Then you say "You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this?" Don't you even understand what gambling is? Especially poker, people believe they have an edge and can make money, but they consistently lose it. That's how every single winning poker player makes money, rich ignorant people play and lose money to pay for professional poker players rent, health insurance, strippers, alcohol, cars, etc...

On September 21 2008 12:18 mysoul wrote: Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers

mysoul....i don't even know where to begin. I'm exactly the kind of person you described, yet LP has made me a winning midstakes player....and i don't even play that much. i would venture that 90% of the people that come here regularly with half a brain ARE winning players because so much information and help is available to beat the games.

you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

btw wobbly this couldnt be more +ev for you as you were in between elky and brainwash. you should be the last person reporting them.

and wobbley if it was pissing you off that bad just tell him to stop....why report him? there is absolutely no reason to report someone in a situation like this; ESPECIALLY if you know him. It's your right to force players to adhere to the rules, but like anything there are degrees of right and wrong. It's like calling the FBI for jaywalking.

is it wrong to hope someone has a huge downswing?


possibly at the hands of rekrul?

On September 21 2008 12:01 Pacifist wrote: I think although what you said about stupid rules like these ones needing to exist is true, there's still a lot of gray area about the necessity of reporting every case. For example, speeding is a rule that definitely needs to exist (or else everyone would be driving superfast and cause lots more accidents etc), but if wobbly was in a car with his family, and his dad was speeding by a few miles, do you think he would call the cops and report his dad? No, and that makes him a huge hypocrite.

ionno i wouldnt be surprised if wobbly would turn in his dad for speeding so dont hate him for it!!!

On September 21 2008 12:18 mysoul wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 11:50 Pacifist wrote: Sure elky may not have directly contribute much to this forum, but he indirectly contributed the world to LP. AFAIK he was the very first one to get into poker, and it was he who got rek, naz, meat, etc all into poker... which then started LP and made it into what it is today. Sure he got into poker first. While grinding low-stakes he needed noobs to rip off and to make money from so using Starcraft geeks was a perfect way to commercialise this whole thing that later started as "Liquidpoker". Stupid fairy tales like making tens of grands while not caring about Starcraft at all etc. I mean how many of the ppl here are actually from teamliquid.net? A website that used to be great, small little community that has grown into a business. "Stairway to heavenly gates of poker". Got everybody else into poker too, yeah. Right. How many people lost their money because of that? "Elky now lost 14k, look what you have done by reporting him". I dont even want to wonder how much money has been taken because of him and the false "ideology" created to even create this particular website. Because the people who came here and gave away their lousy bucks are actually the ones who got this thing started. As said this is rather business now than community and Elky had an advantage. So in a business, its totally normal action. Hate it or love it. Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers

dude ur so clueless, stfu and leave

seriously, make another post this ignorant and offensive to the people who have actually done work on this site, helping out the community(FOR FREE), and ur banned asap

On September 21 2008 12:29 SugoGosu wrote: Elky has for the most part been way ahead of the new teamliquid microstakes followers, myself included. Has he EVER sat at my table? nope, has any of my money ever made it to his pocket? I highly doubt it. Elky shared his passion with others who shared his starcraft passion, and he helped Rekrul, Giyom (Grrr), Meat, Naz, etc... get to where they are. Elky has done way more for this community, and he never would have "ripped people off"

Personally I like elky, even though I am not sure I know him that well despite having chatted with him many times.

But he has ripped the community off before, WDT. Though he was probably just going with the flow - but still - he didn't do something about it and that's his fault.

and fwiw reporting anyone for doing this is just........how to say......stupid.

if i have someone just dumping chips over and over again with random hands i celebrate, not email stars and complain. i just do not see the logic behind this. if it is indeed some form of collusion or cheating, why get upset if it benefits you? and there is no way in hell you can be serious about the lack of understand how it does benefit you; you are a pro, for christ's sakes.

i am not a starcraft or BW player and i know little to nothing of teamliquid and LP's roots, and i fail to see how elky's hero status is relevant when discussing the slime ball, tattle tale, snitch logic of this. the OP actually takes pride in ratting out friends.

On September 21 2008 12:30 JizzleSmitts wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 12:18 mysoul wrote: Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers mysoul....i don't even know where to begin. I'm exactly the kind of person you described, yet LP has made me a winning midstakes player....and i don't even play that much. i would venture that 90% of the people that come here regularly with half a brain ARE winning players because so much information and help is available to beat the games. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

I havent played online poker at all. I dont even intend to play it.

You remind me of "CrownRoyal" who bragged at teamliquid.net how he`s ballin` himself out of control. Some days later he made a blog post here that he has gone broke. 90% winning players? I wont even laugh, because it is sad.

You, yourself, made yourself a winning player. Not anybody else. Im happy for you anyway.

Information is available to anyone who can read. There are tons of poker books, poker schools, poker teachers etc. This whole thing has evolved so much that it isnt even bringing in "the stupid fishes" anymore. Its about "bringing in the stupid ones and actually giving them access to this material" which is of course is provided by tens of poker schooling websites " to make them think they could eventually be a successful players at this game". Some of them are free, some of them not. Probably most of them will be free sooner or later.

Sure you havent seen Elky on your tables. And? This whole thing is a silly pyramid scheme so you all can read how some players play nosebleed stakes with 500k pots like its nothing. One day winning 300k, then losing 350k, then winning 500k, then losing 250k etc. I bet the money comes from nowhere since there are mostly winning players anyway ))

On September 21 2008 13:03 mysoul wrote: Show nested quote + On September 21 2008 12:30 JizzleSmitts wrote:   On September 21 2008 12:18 mysoul wrote: Meat. People dont like to lose. They wont tell it out. 90% losing players. And how many blogs and accounts have been faded away? How many people have been losing money because of this? And why oh why there isnt a "Teamliquid.net" banner on this particular site as there is "Liquidpoker.net" banner at Teamliquid.net? ) You ever wonder how many people have lost their money or whatever because of this? Is it different from casinos/addictions? Cheers mysoul....i don't even know where to begin. I'm exactly the kind of person you described, yet LP has made me a winning midstakes player....and i don't even play that much. i would venture that 90% of the people that come here regularly with half a brain ARE winning players because so much information and help is available to beat the games. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I havent played online poker at all. I dont even intend to play it. You remind me of "CrownRoyal" who bragged at teamliquid.net how he`s ballin` himself out of control. Some days later he made a blog post here that he has gone broke. 90% winning players? I wont even laugh, because it is sad. You, yourself, made yourself a winning player. Not anybody else. Im happy for you anyway. Information is available to anyone who can read. There are tons of poker books, poker schools, poker teachers etc. This whole thing has evolved so much that it isnt even bringing in "the stupid fishes" anymore. Its about "bringing in the stupid ones and actually giving them access to this material" which is of course is provided by tens of poker schooling websites " to make them think they could eventually be a successful players at this game". Some of them are free, some of them not. Probably most of them will be free sooner or later. Sure you havent seen Elky on your tables. And? This whole thing is a silly pyramid scheme so you all can read how some players play nosebleed stakes with 500k pots like its nothing. One day winning 300k, then losing 350k, then winning 500k, then losing 250k etc. I bet the money comes from nowhere since there are mostly winning players anyway ))

You should stop talking about stuff you really have no clue about.

Im so clueless? Yeah.. sure.

Where the money comes from? Abakadabra? Think about the lives you people may have ruined before taking your stand. And clearly
letting this false and fabricated information to go through another site "teamliquid" is clearly an intention, not "misfortune that we didnt see for years and years"
Money makes people act like bitches.

can somone please ban mysoul and maybe find him IRL and beat him up?

Banning me proves my point anyway

The real passion were things that didnt have money involved. And the chance to rip off your own community. The little "thing" he has done twice now.

On September 21 2008 13:09 mysoul wrote: Im so clueless? Yeah.. sure. Where the money comes from? Abakadabra? Think about the lives you people may have ruined before taking your stand. And clearly letting this false and fabricated information to go through another site "teamliquid" is clearly an intention, not "misfortune that we didnt see for years and years" Money makes people act like bitches.

Funny how someone with 8 posts still argues about knowing more about the situation at LiquidPoker.net with a person with 5k+ posts.

Oh irony.