Earthlings (documentary) - Page 10

omg

Very disappointing, Baal.

On February 24 2009 12:59 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 09:57 SakiSaki wrote: As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer. You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will. As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow. Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it. To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you. To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder. I eat meat because its extremely enjoyable and tasty is not a good reason? dude you have your priorities fucked up here, last time i checked i have extreme priorities in enjoying my life every second as possible in everything i do. If you think its not relevant to give up what you consider a total pleasure every single day for the rest of your life then your retarded, because it is for people who like meat, most vegans werent big fans of meat anyway (despise what some say lol) i know many people who rarely eats meat not because of dumb moral views, just because they dont like it much and/or its hard to digest.

Well, I guess you and I are just diffrent. I dont build my moral beliefs around what is always best for me. I am prepared to make sacrefices to do what I think I am morally obligated to. Your moral reasoning makes you close to a psychopath

What is 'best' for a person is not what gives him the most pleasure out of life. It is exactly this mentality that taken to an extreme and as a collective manifestation has made the world as dysfunctional as it is today, and this won't be sustained by the planet for long.

Also don't mistake what I just said as meaning that everyone should force themselves to make choices that would make them unhappy, that is not the case. The whole perception that pleasures = happiness and 'making the most out of life' is what the erroneous perception is. If you compulsively seek pleasures externally to make you happy you are doing it in order to avoid pain, so this happiness you seek therefore brings pain. And not only does it bring pain onto you but it also does onto others a lot of the time. Why would happiness bring pain? You should question that.

On February 24 2009 13:57 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 12:59 Baal wrote:   On February 24 2009 09:57 SakiSaki wrote: As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer. You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will. As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow. Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it. To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you. To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder. I eat meat because its extremely enjoyable and tasty is not a good reason? dude you have your priorities fucked up here, last time i checked i have extreme priorities in enjoying my life every second as possible in everything i do. If you think its not relevant to give up what you consider a total pleasure every single day for the rest of your life then your retarded, because it is for people who like meat, most vegans werent big fans of meat anyway (despise what some say lol) i know many people who rarely eats meat not because of dumb moral views, just because they dont like it much and/or its hard to digest. Well, I guess you and I are just diffrent. I dont build my moral beliefs around what is always best for me. I am prepared to make sacrefices to do what I think I am morally obligated to. Your moral reasoning makes you close to a psychopath

oh... but you do, because you build your morale around "not eating meat" saving the planet that way, when just donating cash is much much much more efficient and will help more, so you actually do build your morale on what is best for you, not on what is best for everbody else, because quiting meat gives you a sense of acomplishment, makes you feel good, atleast more than donating, regardless of the results of both.

This is for both, you and loco, how come you quit eating meat and you are sitting on dozens of thousands of dollars withouth donating considerable amounts.

If you were to suddenly become allergic to all meat Baal would you become unhappy for the rest of your life?

On February 24 2009 14:08 Loco wrote: Also don't mistake what I just said as meaning that everyone should force themselves to make choices that would make them unhappy, that is not the case. The whole perception that pleasures = happiness and 'making the most out of life' is what the erroneous perception is. If you compulsively seek pleasures externally to make you happy you are doing it in order to avoid pain, so this happiness you seek therefore brings pain. And not only does it bring pain onto you but it also does onto others a lot of the time. Why would happiness bring pain? You should question that.

i didnt say external pleasures is hapiness, hapiness derives from pleasures but it depends on how extense we define pleasures, it is pleasurable for you to "help the world" by being a vegan, not to your taste buds, but for your mind.

And i am not preaching about a selfish quest for pleasure as an optimal way of life, i were only saying "because it give me pleasure" it is indeed an strong argument.

both of you are still dodging the question, why not donate instead, dont give me the "i dont know wher its going" fucking crap, because that is bullshit and that is not the reason u dont eat meat.

This dosn't seem like too important of an issue when compared to stuff like pollution, war - people destroying the planet. Animals are disposable and we can just "make" more if we need to, when compared to other things it's not that big of a deal IMO. Eat meat or don't, w/e just try and make it so that the next generation of people has a equal or better quality of life than ours

Dodging what question? You're the one disregarding a whole bunch of valid points and twisting everything into one single thing. If you affirm ultimately knowing the purpose behind what it is that I do and others do then it must be true. There is nothing to argue about. And fyi, I remember Saki donating a lot to Poker Donors and that money was supposedly going to children in 3rd world countries.

FUUUUUUUUUUU

holy shit Steal City you are a fucking legend

PS: Loco although you make a concerted effort to rationalize your various opinions, it's obvious that in reality they are based almost exclusively on your own personal values. Effectively this makes you much more self-centered even than others, such as CrownRoyal, who you deride for being "egotists", and your disingenuity in this regard only makes your position less respectable. I could go through your posts and quote any number of statements that are misguided or just plain incorrect, but that would be missing the forest for the trees. Instead I will just point out that you are unfortunately no more perfect than the rest of us despite your most earnest attempts to appear so.

On February 24 2009 18:23 n0rthf4ce wrote: FUN

I wrote a haiku for everyone. o.O

Vegans are real cool.
Steaks actually taste great.
Can't we get along?

On February 24 2009 14:26 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 13:57 SakiSaki wrote:   On February 24 2009 12:59 Baal wrote:   On February 24 2009 09:57 SakiSaki wrote: As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer. You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will. As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow. Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it. To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you. To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder. I eat meat because its extremely enjoyable and tasty is not a good reason? dude you have your priorities fucked up here, last time i checked i have extreme priorities in enjoying my life every second as possible in everything i do. If you think its not relevant to give up what you consider a total pleasure every single day for the rest of your life then your retarded, because it is for people who like meat, most vegans werent big fans of meat anyway (despise what some say lol) i know many people who rarely eats meat not because of dumb moral views, just because they dont like it much and/or its hard to digest. Well, I guess you and I are just diffrent. I dont build my moral beliefs around what is always best for me. I am prepared to make sacrefices to do what I think I am morally obligated to. Your moral reasoning makes you close to a psychopath oh... but you do, because you build your morale around "not eating meat" saving the planet that way, when just donating cash is much much much more efficient and will help more, so you actually do build your morale on what is best for you, not on what is best for everbody else, because quiting meat gives you a sense of acomplishment, makes you feel good, atleast more than donating, regardless of the results of both. This is for both, you and loco, how come you quit eating meat and you are sitting on dozens of thousands of dollars withouth donating considerable amounts.

I wouldnt stop eating meat to "save the planet". I would stop eating meat primarily because I am against animal cruelty. Like I have stated before, I wouldnt really have a moral problem with eating meat if it was guaranteed to have come from a cow that was treated ok.

It is pretty arrogant of you to assume that everyone takes the same egotistical aproach to morality as you do.

Now the whole reasources aspect of this is a complex issue which I havent really decided on yet but I think its pretty naive to say that you can just donate a bunch of money instead. The population of the world is growing rapidly and money cant really magicly create new fields to grow crop on.

Oh and I do donate a fair bit, probably not nearly enough as people like Peter Singer would want me to but we are all more or less flawed in that department. I dont really see how that is an argument for me to keep eating meat though? Just because I am not jesus I might aswell be satan huh?

On February 24 2009 19:22 seatown12 wrote: holy shit Steal City you are a fucking legend PS: Loco although you make a concerted effort to rationalize your various opinions, it's obvious that in reality they are based almost exclusively on your own personal values. Effectively this makes you much more self-centered even than others, such as CrownRoyal, who you deride for being "egotists", and your disingenuity in this regard only makes your position less respectable. I could go through your posts and quote any number of statements that are misguided or just plain incorrect, but that would be missing the forest for the trees. Instead I will just point out that you are unfortunately no more perfect than the rest of us despite your most earnest attempts to appear so.

I am aware that those are my personal values indeed. If I indeed was the self-centered person that you believe I am I believe I would currently feel the need to defend myself, like CrownRoyal, who was so quick to talk about his values and defend his integrity and try to change my mind about 'who he really is'.

I am not going to do that, because not only do I not feel it as being necessary, I do not feel it at all. I know very well my intents and your opinion about it is not something that concerns me. If I come off as a self-centered person to you, trying to look better than you to satisfy my ego, so be it and I respect it. Don't mistake me as disregarding your opinions, I'm simply saying that I know better than you what my intents are and if someone implies otherwise it won't concern me.

Gandhi said "Be the change you want to see in the world." I believe that it is exactly what I am seeking to do and if that is being self-centered then being self-centered is the best thing you can offer to the world.

Loloco is lol
That last post was defensive
Like thorns on a rose

(you gotta have a nature-reference in there, else it doesnt count as a haiku )

I edited the last paragraph in later cause I had just came across that reference. It wasn't defensive at all initially.

There you go again
You are defending yourself
The Hawk eats the Owl


(let's make this a haiku thread from nao on all, it will be fun and we won't have to wade through page after page to get a clue about wtf is going on )