Earthlings (documentary) - Page 7

I was the same person you are when I made that blog post back then. No difference.

ALL ABOOAAARD !

Also discussion are so everybody can give their opinion and not 1 guy gives a opposite opinion of what everything else think ->>> everyone starts hating the guy in the thread wtf?!
Im actually happy when there are many different opinions and u should be too

Who is being hated?

loco i think it's really cool that you donated to that band and i think it is clearly worthy of a brag post.

that's my whole point though, everyone loves attention from time to time and there is absolutely nothing wrong with ego posting. You can't change people it's ridiculous to expect to.

you have to change the world in a different way than with people we are hardwired to be the way we are.

I do not share your sentiments on the donation or the brag, but then again I do not see myself as being the one who did it. And yes, it is possible to be changed. It isn't your choice though.

As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer.

You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will.

As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow.

Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it.

To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you.

To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder.

it's responsibility and delusions of grandeur

ty

You sure it isnt illusions of grandure? lol

well nice edit anyway i fucked it up the first time too

On February 24 2009 09:57 SakiSaki wrote: As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer. You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will. As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow. Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it. To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you. To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder.

of course there's a real reason to be naturally inclined to despise idealism and it's always the distrust in the motivation of the idealist (what really drives him)
This is why one should always look at zealots of one cause or another with great suspicion
Other than that I do feel empathetic towards a suffering fellow mammal, I am not sure where the moral obligation not to eat meat comes from though,especially when I'm not really opposed to killing an animal to eat it,but with the process that this is happening. Do you think going vegetarian is a clear message to anyone or that anyone would actually give a shit?

lol guys don't you know plants feel pain too? (seriously, they do)
better start starving yourself until you're all dead.
you want to eat meat? eat meat. you want to eat grass? eat grass.
I saw the video and it doesn't change my opinion on anything, I still think they should try to insta-kill the animal but ffs look around the world at what other cultures do to our 'fellow mammals' in retrospect we are still much more humane.

shit happens.

BTW, the smugness of this entire thread is making it very hard to breathe. END SMUG POLLUTION! WEWT!


edit: Sorry for being over-sarcastic but ffs... I just can't wait for the day when the earth turns "green" then a giant volcano erupts and sends us into an ice age regardless.

IT WILL BE FUCKING EPIC!

On February 24 2009 09:57 SakiSaki wrote: As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer. You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will. As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow. Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it. To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you. To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder.

I'll be honest and you'll probably laugh about it but I don't think it will take 200 years for people to realize this, I believe it's already taking a foothold on the planet and that in a few years (3-4) things will have changed(improved) dramatically. And at the risk of sounding superstitious, perhaps even it is part of the whole 2012 thing, if it indeed brings a shift in consciousness like the most significant theory of it states it will (I just informed myself on the subject), animals will be treated much differently.

Well, actually, most of the people who turn vegetarians I believe simply do it for the health benefits. Vegans on the other hand are the ones who do it for moral reasons, since the cows and poultry aren't treated in a natural way either(for them to produce more milk and eggs) so they have to cut them and dairy products from their diet also. So it makes sense when people say they have wanted to become vegetarians but couldn't since deep within they don't feel that it is immoral to keep purchasing from those industries. Buying from organic farms/cutting meat consumption % is still better than not doing anything about it and just tapping yourself on the back saying "that's the way things are" before eating a steak so at least you are make some efforts unlike most. Perhaps the motivation to go deeper will come eventually if you stay sensible about it.

"Do you think going vegetarian is a clear message to anyone or that anyone would actually give a shit?"

I'm not sure I understand your question towards Saki. Why is it important to you if anyone gives a shit or not? What do others have to do in your own choices and morals? The intent behind it should be because you care about the environment on a deep level and your health, not because of other people?

As I said my interest is to change the way animals are treated overall,not to criticize meat eating in general. That's why I am referring to other people ,if I thought that meat eating was immoral I would obviously not care about what others think.

On February 24 2009 06:07 Loco wrote: I'm sorry Baal but you just aren't looking at the bigger picture here. You are too concerned with individuality. It is of course true that it does "very little" but that is relative anyway. How is very little? By going vegan for a month, you save: 8000 gallons of water a quarter acre of land a quarter ton of soil erosion a half ton of polluting animal manure the CO2 equivalent of 270 pounds of greenhouse gases the energy equivalent of burning 7 gallons of gasoline, and 160 pounds of crops wasted on farmed animals. Of course it isn't gigantic on a very large scale but if that one person makes a few other people become vegan and so on during their lifespan it doesn't take very long before it makes a drastic difference on the planet. Thinking that you are just one individual on this planet and that what you do has no importance is just ignorance. Glutonny is eating in excess and/or getting extreme pleasures from food. So when someone says hmmmmmm I love steaks so much they're so tasty I would never give up eating them they're pretty much being gluttons. They do what they do because they don't care about what's behind it, the industries, the environment, and only want to please their tastebuds. That is your choice, but that is also glutonny and only in this fucked up world can such a thing happen, because it is certainly not natural for some humans to be gluttons and others to starve to death.

quoting this to bump it.

You dont need to be a vegan or a vegetarian or some stupid trendy hipster kid to see that raising animals uses up TONS more resources than does growing crops.

Short answer.

Ethics aside, we cannot due to a differing chromosome count. Our chromosome 2 is actually a fusion between 2 chromosomes from our shared ancestor.

Unless we can artificially split and restructure our number 2 or alternatively artificially fuse the corresponding chromosomes in a chimp.

Very interesting, but disappointing as it would require a clearly artificial human intervention to fix the chromosome number (not that contacting ape/human sperm and egg isn't artificial, but I guess I don't have to argue the difference in significance) and would not provide as much evidence for evolution.

Googling I found that other apes (gorillas?) are not a solution either:
"The four species have a similar number of chromosomes, with the apes all having 24 pairs, and humans having 23 pairs" (http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html)

The next question is whether the experiment might, despite that, still work. Suppose the common ancestor also had 24 chromosomes, and a mutation results in 23. Then that mutant (let's call her Eve ), would have to be able to mate with a male with 24 chromosomes. And 23 would have to be the result. Of course, in those days the other differences in DNA would be much smaller, but the mere fact that the number of chromosome pairs differ is perhaps not an impediment in itself. Any thoughts on that? I guess it is known whether a person with Down syndrome can have off-spring.

Edit: It turns out this link already point to the possibility of breeding animals with different numbers of chromosomes, and gives an example.

It appears to be hardly an original idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee