Earthlings (documentary)

"EARTHLINGS is a feature length documentary about humanity's absolute dependence on animals (for pets, food, clothing, entertainment, and scientific research) but also illustrates our complete disrespect for these so-called "non-human providers." The film is narrated by Academy Award nominee Joaquin Phoenix (GLADIATOR) and features music by the critically acclaimed platinum artist Moby. It shows some never-before-seen footage using hidden cameras."

Documentary trailer;


Whole video can be found here and on youtube as well;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...qQODp7WHDg&q=earthlings&hl=en

You may be aware of animal cruelty to a certain extent, but a lot of people aren't truly informed and most don't even question the things they eat either. I've heard so many idiots say that there are "worst things in the world" than this so they simply don't care, but if you have some tiny bit of morals you'll realize how idiotic that is. I believe it is my duty to post this documentary here. I'd also like to point out that I respect the choices of people who eat meat, but I don't respect the cowards who are afraid to see the truth behind it. You owe it to yourself and the planet to watch/share this. Now some very related polls...


Poll: I am...
(Vote): Omnivorous
(Vote): Vegan
(Vote): Vegetarian
(Vote): Other


Poll: Have you watched the documentary?
(Vote): Yes, and it made me consider changing my diet.
(Vote): Yes, but it didn't change anything within me. // I was already aware of all this.
(Vote): No, I don't really care for animal rights and the environment.
(Vote): No, I'm afraid of what I might find out and I prefer staying unaware.




EDIT:
IMPORTANT!

On February 23 2009 06:42 Spitfiree wrote: If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death since the overall food (non animal related except stuff like honey) production on our planet will not be enough.

This is just extremely idiotic and I know he isn't the only one who thinks that.If you're not going to watch the documentary, at least educate yourself on this with this quick video that shows just how it would be the opposite;

wheres the option for: No, but i do care for animals that we dont eat

-Jorge

Predators can eat meat but it's immoral for humans to do so? Nature built us to be omnivores, although admittedly we probly eat a lot more meat than is necessary

So i only watched the trailer and will watch the documentary in some minutes/hours too but i get the things u mean and i dont really agree with u.Its simply how our planet works as the "law of the jungle" says "the stronger wins" in this case our race is stronger than the animals so we feed with them just the way the animals eat other animals.We need them in order to survive.If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death since the overall food (non animal related except stuff like honey) production on our planet will not be enough.What i agree with tho is that animals shouldnt be tortured they way they are before they r killed & cut coz this is just sick ... everything should be done super fast so they dont feel any pain.I am aware of what crap i eat and how half the "meat" i eat is not really meat but still its delicious and i just cant be a vegetarian.Its just the way it is as i said the stronger wins the same way the lion eats buffalo we eat em

On February 23 2009 06:42 Spitfiree wrote: If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death

Oh god this actually made me lol

^ Hahahah

Anyway I'll watch this, I am omnivorous but rarely eat meat, was vegetarian for 1-2 years and later even completely vegan for half a year. It is just too hard to maintain when everyone else in your community eats meat. Now I almost don't buy meat, but when someone else cooks for me (girlfriend or when we are at friends) I eat meat too

strictly carnivore, i throw the buns away

other = strictly carnivore

On February 23 2009 06:47 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 06:42 Spitfiree wrote: If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death Oh god this actually made me lol

i'd rather starve to death ;p

On February 23 2009 06:47 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 06:42 Spitfiree wrote: If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death Oh god this actually made me lol

then ur pretty ignorant since u dont know that only about 5% of the "ground" is usable for food production but meh its pretty standart for people to laugh while they are not informed at all... the other 95% is unusable gruond like karst( i bet u dont even know what that is ) mountains,human polluted areas,cities,deserts & etc.

yes and the "ground" is instead used for creatures which requires ton a lot of more water, takes up gazzilion amounts of energy to become something eatable compared to, for example, growing beans which would be more cost-effective and give x203023 times the energy and food for the world.

On February 23 2009 07:24 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 06:47 SakiSaki wrote:   On February 23 2009 06:42 Spitfiree wrote: If the whole world went vegetarian most people would starve to death Oh god this actually made me lol then ur pretty ignorant since u dont know that only about 5% of the "ground" is usable for food production but meh its pretty standart for people to laugh while they are not informed at all... the other 95% is unusable gruond like karst( i bet u dont even know what that is ) mountains,human polluted areas,cities,deserts & etc.

and then synthetic fertilizers were created

earth needs extinction events every so often to compliment the progression of evolution. often in prehistory a type of animal would evolve to complete dominate the ecosystem stunting takeover by later animals. extinctions completely wiped the major large vertebrates and allowed evolution to progress. what we see now is a minor extinction event similar in size to that in the late triassic which precluded the rapid ascent of dinosaurs. before then the land had been dominated by slow sprawl legged land reptiles which relied on the suns heat and dinosaurs were relatively uncommon, stunted in their evolutionary progress by the dominance of large fat slow reptiles.

this extinction based on current rates and extrapolations- you cant extrapolate indefinitely because some species groups are adapted/adaptable to human societies.

i got bored writing this but its my own idea

I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs.

I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening.

edit: that came across rather dumb I'm not a vegetarian at all lal but I think we could treat animals better

On February 23 2009 07:39 SpasticInk wrote: yes and the "ground" is instead used for creatures which requires ton a lot of more water, takes up gazzilion amounts of energy to become something eatable compared to, for example, growing beans which would be more cost-effective and give x203023 times the energy and food for the world.

I was going to post this. Thank you for saving me the time.

On February 23 2009 06:38 Neutral Milk wrote: Predators can eat meat but it's immoral for humans to do so? Nature built us to be omnivores, although admittedly we probly eat a lot more meat than is necessary

Do you think you're the first person who brings up this argument? WE'RE OMNIVORES FUCK THIS, NATURE'S LAW!!


No, fuck that. That's fucking bullshit. The food is not even NATURAL. Most of the shit you eat is processed and the meat you eat is full of hormones, antibiotics and other shit which only ups your chances of getting cancer and multiple other diseases. Vegans and vegetarians are much more healthy and disease free and it has been proven in researches.

It is immoral if you know what's going on behind the industry, yes. It's also immoral if you consider that eating is meant to feed the body and isn't supposed to be immense pleasure or glutonny. The body can be perfectly healthy without eating animals or animal products, nobody has any excuses for the slaughter of all the animals that they eat, except laziness and pleasure from it.

On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening.

Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being.

On February 23 2009 06:38 Neutral Milk wrote: Predators can eat meat but it's immoral for humans to do so? Nature built us to be omnivores, although admittedly we probly eat a lot more meat than is necessary

There is nothing wrong with eating meat.

The problem is how we get said meat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

And here is the answer lol. But as always money and preconceptions take precedent .

this happens all the time only depends on which side are you

I love the argument that animals are predators because you are completely right. But ask yourself this, are most humans predators... haha hell no! Animals NEED to kill other animals in order to survive. Tell me when the last time you've killed an animal with your own hands. In this society we are not predators at all, if you can kill an animal yourself by all means eat meat. However, relying on these completely immoral slaughterhouses which pump meat full of cancer causing toxins in the name of the almighty dollar. Can you really sleep on that justification. I have no problem with people eating meat. I have a problem with people being pussies and lazy by basically killing themselves in the sake of "it's natural" when it's really not. I know that I can't kill an animal so I choose to be a vegetarian. And it's really not that hard. My girlfriend has been a vegan for over 6 years now, and we're top collegiate athletes.

So, think of it as a moral proposition on whether you should eat meat.

When they make meat substitute that taste as good as meat Im def turning vegan, but till then Im just forced to keep eating animals :/

i dont really give a shit

u can suffer for a lost cause

nobody forces you to do anything. you do it out of pure will. the truth is that you are a lazy fuck and/or you care more about how tasty meat is than the environment and animals. just don't lie to yourself about it.

there are plenty of great substitutes as well.

the people who cling on to the belief that they need meat in their diet to be healthy are just fooling themselves. hell, there are pro football, baseball, bodybuilders and mma fighters who are actually vegans/vegetarians. you have to be extremely stupid in order to be an unhealthy vegan/vegetarian.

On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being.

like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption.

I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots.

infernalization to the extreme

On February 23 2009 11:06 Loco wrote: the people who cling on to the belief that they need meat in their diet to be healthy are just fooling themselves. hell, there are pro football, baseball, bodybuilders and mma fighters who are actually vegans/vegetarians. you have to be extremely stupid in order to be an unhealthy vegan/vegetarian.

Very true. Maybe like 10, 15, 20 years ago it was different, or at least it was tougher to be a healthy vegetarian because society didn't provide for it and a lot of people weren't balancing their diet properly. But these days it's amazing what they have developed for vegetarians and vegans. I personally eat meat but I have gone on several month streaks where I eat mostly vegetarian and honestly I usually feel healthier the less meat I have in my diet. And these days they've got some seriously tasty shit for vegetarians to eat and a lot of it is almost as good as / the same as meat. When I was young vegetarian food always tasted like shit and attempts at meat alternatives were huge failures, but I've recently gone to some vegetarian restaurants and had meat substitutes which were fucking delicious. It wasn't exactly the same but it was really good in a different way. I think I could grow up as a vegetarian now if I could eat that type of vegetarian food.

And if you think that there can't be tasty vegetarian food, try eating indian food. God, those guys figured out how to make veggies and rice and bread taste like heaven.

Personally I never plan to stop eating meat. I used to eat meat every meal of every day and if there wasn't meat then I felt like it wasn't a proper meal. Now I'm totally happy eating vegetarian and leaving the meat out, but there are still dishes which I love that are made of meat and I will keep eating. Luckily since I'm eating meat much less often it allows me to more easily be more picky about the meat I eat, so I can get organic meat and be picky about the way it was raised/killed.

wasn't there a Southpark about this?

lol the HUMANe treatment of ANIMALs

now what they do to corn, that shit is vile. Like nazi germany or something

On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots.

QFT

This thread reminded of my craving for a steak, bbl

On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots.

I don't care. It has no relevance whether you want the situation to be improved, it simply is not happening and it won't happen, it's wishful thinking. And if it was to happen you'd pay more for your meat, you wouldn't want that would you? I've already mentioned how idiotic I thought the whole "there are worse things in the world happening, so the animals and environment is the least of our worries" was, you need to understand that it sparks from the exact same place but with food consumption you can actually make a difference! Whereas you are a silent observer to those other things happening in the world.

On February 23 2009 11:27 k2o4 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 11:06 Loco wrote: the people who cling on to the belief that they need meat in their diet to be healthy are just fooling themselves. hell, there are pro football, baseball, bodybuilders and mma fighters who are actually vegans/vegetarians. you have to be extremely stupid in order to be an unhealthy vegan/vegetarian. Very true. Maybe like 10, 15, 20 years ago it was different, or at least it was tougher to be a healthy vegetarian because society didn't provide for it and a lot of people weren't balancing their diet properly. But these days it's amazing what they have developed for vegetarians and vegans. I personally eat meat but I have gone on several month streaks where I eat mostly vegetarian and honestly I usually feel healthier the less meat I have in my diet. And these days they've got some seriously tasty shit for vegetarians to eat and a lot of it is almost as good as / the same as meat. When I was young vegetarian food always tasted like shit and attempts at meat alternatives were huge failures, but I've recently gone to some vegetarian restaurants and had meat substitutes which were fucking delicious. It wasn't exactly the same but it was really good in a different way. I think I could grow up as a vegetarian now if I could eat that type of vegetarian food. And if you think that there can't be tasty vegetarian food, try eating indian food. God, those guys figured out how to make veggies and rice and bread taste like heaven. Personally I never plan to stop eating meat. I used to eat meat every meal of every day and if there wasn't meat then I felt like it wasn't a proper meal. Now I'm totally happy eating vegetarian and leaving the meat out, but there are still dishes which I love that are made of meat and I will keep eating. Luckily since I'm eating meat much less often it allows me to more easily be more picky about the meat I eat, so I can get organic meat and be picky about the way it was raised/killed.

Yeah, while it is great that you acknowledge that vegan/vegetarian food is good and you eat less meat than before, don't kid yourself... organic meat still has hormones in it. Some good info...

I have no problem buying food that is more expensive if it was naturally fed/lived/killed. Also, it tastes a lot better, a lot better, the chicken is so juicy. As of right now though it is hard to find that shit because the majority of people are life nits/poor/dumb when it comes to food which is why you are right it is not going to change any time soon.

I meant that in a general way, I was not genuinely asking Baal or anyone if they would want that. It's just not happening.

On February 23 2009 11:30 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots. I don't care. It has no relevance whether you want the situation to be improved, it simply is not happening and it won't happen, it's wishful thinking. And if it was to happen you'd pay more for your meat, you wouldn't want that would you? I've already mentioned how idiotic I thought the whole "there are worse things in the world happening, so the animals and environment is the least of our worries" was, you need to understand that it sparks from the exact same place but with food consumption you can actually make a difference! Whereas you are a silent observer to those other things happening in the world.

the difference in price in my meat would be unnoticable if animals are treated correctly, i dont know how i can make a difference... by not eating meat? oh yeah that will teach them... sorry but i enjoy my meat sir, animals should be treated better, if there is a petition, ill sign it, if there is a vote on it, ill vote, but i wont stop eating meat, its stupid.

On February 23 2009 11:40 Loco wrote: I meant that in a general way, I was not genuinely asking Baal or anyone if they would want that. It's just not happening.

yeah its not happening, and its not the fault of meat eating people its the fault of the government, who are the only ones who can enforce slaughter houses to do stuff. so to raise awareness of this is obviously a very good thing, wanting to people to become vegetarians is just retarded.


BTW what is the exact diffrence between a vegetarian, a vegan and a microbiotic, and what are the "philosophies" behind those.

cmon chicken is too good

On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. edit: that came across rather dumb I'm not a vegetarian at all lal but I think we could treat animals better

lol nice edit catch.

feel the same way.i feel bad for the animals but meat is one of the very few foods im able to enjoy so meh ;

So anyway u do realise that most of the vegetables these days are made with fertilizers so thats full of shit too if u ask me ... well not as much as the stuff they put in the meat but still its not natural
The meaning of "healthy food" is pretty messed up these days since there isnt much 100% natural healthy food.
As far as it goes for me im very capricious about the food i eat so if u take my meat away u ll be basically taking like 50% of my regular meals out

Being a vegetarian doesn't sound even the slightest bit interesting to me.

In fact not eating meat seems completely ridiculous I never understood any reason for it.

without synthetic fertilizers we'd be pretty much fucked,they used stuff like pigeon shit before they discovered how to make them and it wasn't sufficient even back then

Actually you can even call me selfish but I don't really care how animals are treated. So long as the world keeps turning and we aren't degrading society I could give a fuck about how some random animal gets treated.

It's in our nature and genes to abuse those weaker than us and i don't think you're ever going to change human nature.

If you're worried about earth's resources, fuck it, we'll be able to make new societies on new planets within 250 years I'm sure we can hold out for that long.

On February 23 2009 14:32 CrownRoyal wrote: Actually you can even call me selfish but I don't really care how animals are treated. So long as the world keeps turning and we aren't degrading society I could give a fuck about how some random animal gets treated. It's in our nature and genes to abuse those weaker than us and i don't think you're ever going to change human nature. If you're worried about earth's resources, fuck it, we'll be able to make new societies on new planets within 250 years I'm sure we can hold out for that long.

So basicly you are saying we should legalize murder and rape cause its in our "nature"

tbh that isnt exactly what im saying but its a lot more close than you think.

On February 23 2009 14:32 CrownRoyal wrote: Actually you can even call me selfish but I don't really care how animals are treated. So long as the world keeps turning and we aren't degrading society I could give a fuck about how some random animal gets treated. It's in our nature and genes to abuse those weaker than us and i don't think you're ever going to change human nature. If you're worried about earth's resources, fuck it, we'll be able to make new societies on new planets within 250 years I'm sure we can hold out for that long.

this is so ignorant its disgusting.

and murder isnt in your genes, no one is born a murderer.

No one is born a rapist either but sometimes you're just an ugly horny fuck

if society raises people right we don't have these situations

you guys have no idea what my values are, I think people should have to pass tests to have kids and there should be check ups to make sure the kid is being raised right, if he isnt give him to sterile parents that are qualified. Then we come so much closer to utopia it's ridiculous.

animal rights is retarded

On February 23 2009 14:47 CrownRoyal wrote: you guys have no idea what my values are, I think people should have to pass tests to have kids and there should be check ups to make sure the kid is being raised right, if he isnt give him to sterile parents that are qualified. Then we come so much closer to utopia it's ridiculous. animal rights is retarded

the only thing retarded here its you lol, you qutoe your beliefs on some kind of scary super controlling government like if it somehow redeemed the image we just created of you lol.

Why is it ok to infringe unnecesary suffering and pain to animals when we can avoid it? so we only car about our own species fuck the rest? i am not saying we dont eat them, i think its perfectly morally right to consume others animals, i do believe its immoral to infringe UNNCESARY pain to other animals tho.

actually baal the only form of govt necessary in my world is the one that lasts for a few generations until we are liberated from degenerating society and then govt is almost completely unnecessary I highly dislike govt.

I dislike a degenerating gene pool way more though

animals have no idea they are being mistreated.

if its an animal like a dolphin or something sure, but a cow or something??? no way

cows can feel pain you know?

this animal propoganda in this movie must be strong i guess i'm gonna have to watch the movie to somehow gain a different perspective on animals.

where i live is a farm community so i have a pretty good idea the lives that animals live within my mind but maybe this will change it.

"..as far as im concerned im all for killing.If its for a good reason. And eating this steak is definitely a good reason!"

I couldnt say it any better.

On February 23 2009 08:01 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 06:38 Neutral Milk wrote: Predators can eat meat but it's immoral for humans to do so? Nature built us to be omnivores, although admittedly we probly eat a lot more meat than is necessary Do you think you're the first person who brings up this argument? WE'RE OMNIVORES FUCK THIS, NATURE'S LAW!! No, fuck that. That's fucking bullshit. The food is not even NATURAL. Most of the shit you eat is processed and the meat you eat is full of hormones, antibiotics and other shit which only ups your chances of getting cancer and multiple other diseases. Vegans and vegetarians are much more healthy and disease free and it has been proven in researches. It is immoral if you know what's going on behind the industry, yes. It's also immoral if you consider that eating is meant to feed the body and isn't supposed to be immense pleasure or glutonny. The body can be perfectly healthy without eating animals or animal products, nobody has any excuses for the slaughter of all the animals that they eat, except laziness and pleasure from it.

You need to whatch more House ^^ how 2 vegan morons almost killed they baby by giving him a vegan diet. and wtf is all this shit about eating animals cuz of lazyness? do u know how long it takes to make a salad compared to BBQing a stake? liek i said before, Im all up for treating the animals better but im still gonna eat them with no remorse. I can give you more examples say ur stuck in an island no edible fruit or feeding trees what do you do? You fish right u bait the poor animal make him swallow a hook then you yank him off out of teh water where he suffocates. YEAH u animal abuser you. The companies do teh same shit they just do it mor eefficiently I admit its fucked up but just cuz of that does not mean you dont have to eat meat if you dont like the way tehy do it grow your own.


-Jorge

On February 23 2009 13:38 Baal wrote: BTW what is the exact diffrence between a vegetarian, a vegan and a microbiotic, and what are the "philosophies" behind those.

1+ what the fuck its a vegan? =/ some kind of protestant vegetarian ? =/

vegans dont eat anything coming from animals, like eggs and milk

I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious.

lol im kinda scared to watch it, but i cant ever turn down a documentary, watching docs is my #1 way to learn now days. ill post my response after i watch it. brb!

On February 23 2009 15:50 Zealeo wrote: I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious.

theres a lot and very reliable information about how unhealthy milk is for adults, and well it makes sense since no other animal consumes milk after they reach maturity.

I tried cutting out milk from my diet for a few months and didn't really notice a change. Went back to milk with cereal/yogurts/ice cream and nothing came of it either. What were some of the negative effects?

The biggest ignorance of the various environmental movements is the concept that we are doing anything to "Save the Earth" or "Protect Bio-Diversity."

Flat out the planet is going to be here whether we human beings are around to see it or not. What we do is to save ourselves. The straight-up reality is that resources around the world are dwindling away fairly quickly and human beings are consuming more than the Earth can give on a yearly basis well at the same time producing incredible amounts of waste. The environment generally isn't an overly important political issue in most countries. The general consensus among most populations is a feeling of crossing fingers to hope that science and technology advancements will save all of humanities problems or that I will die before these problems are significant to the world I live in.

The goal for humanity isn't to save the planet or the biodiversity of the planet because it's pretty and we want our kids to be able to see how pretty it is, it's for our own survival as a species. Nature does a shitload of important natural processes that would cost an incredible amount of money and require inventing several new technologies to replace. It is in the best interest of mankind to find a way to bring consumption into line with only using renewable resources and trying to make human society as green as possible.

On February 23 2009 17:11 Bejamin1 wrote: The biggest ignorance of the various environmental movements is the concept that we are doing anything to "Save the Earth" or "Protect Bio-Diversity." Flat out the planet is going to be here whether we human beings are around to see it or not. What we do is to save ourselves. The straight-up reality is that resources around the world are dwindling away fairly quickly and human beings are consuming more than the Earth can give on a yearly basis well at the same time producing incredible amounts of waste. The environment generally isn't an overly important political issue in most countries. The general consensus among most populations is a feeling of crossing fingers to hope that science and technology advancements will save all of humanities problems or that I will die before these problems are significant to the world I live in. The goal for humanity isn't to save the planet or the biodiversity of the planet because it's pretty and we want our kids to be able to see how pretty it is, it's for our own survival as a species. Nature does a shitload of important natural processes that would cost an incredible amount of money and require inventing several new technologies to replace. It is in the best interest of mankind to find a way to bring consumption into line with only using renewable resources and trying to make human society as green as possible.

read a thread before posting in it please...

We are not discussing saving biodiversity or the planet, we are discussing animal treatment here.

For the record i also belive "saving the planet" is retarded and its just a movement for idiots who want to be part of something big: oh thanks for driving an hidrogen car, you are such a mankind saver, just right next to Kakaroto.

On February 23 2009 16:33 milkman wrote: lol im kinda scared to watch it, but i cant ever turn down a documentary, watching docs is my #1 way to learn now days. ill post my response after i watch it. brb!

i watched the whole thing, and i want my time back.. this video wasnt a documentary, it was a fucking hour and a half long PETA recruitment ad. It was TOTALLY one sided, and didnt touch or go in depth on many things that were worth talking about. It was just like Americas Funniest Home Videos, but switch funny, with sick fucked up rednecks treating animals horribly.. and no Bob Saget, they just picked out the worst videos they could find from every type of animal killing, slopped um all together and put a "Documentary" tag on it.. what a horrible piece of crap.


if you want to watch a good documentary, check out PBS frontline docs, voodoos war, and the meltdown r two that i really liked.

On February 23 2009 16:49 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 15:50 Zealeo wrote: I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious. theres a lot and very reliable information about how unhealthy milk is for adults, and well it makes sense since no other animal consumes milk after they reach maturity.

That's unfortunate. I figure people have been drinking milk for a very long time now and things seem to be going alright. There are too many other things I need to worry about killing me than fucking milk.

On February 23 2009 18:31 Zealeo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 16:49 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 15:50 Zealeo wrote: I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious. theres a lot and very reliable information about how unhealthy milk is for adults, and well it makes sense since no other animal consumes milk after they reach maturity. That's unfortunate. I figure people have been drinking milk for a very long time now and things seem to be going alright. There are too many other things I need to worry about killing me than fucking milk.

i dont drink milk either just because it doesnt fit into my diet anywhere, not for any reason, i guess i just dont like it t much.. but what r some other good sources of calcium? or w/e it is in milk that help keep ur bones strong.. cuz i kinda worry about that sometimes.

On February 23 2009 18:37 milkman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 18:31 Zealeo wrote:   On February 23 2009 16:49 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 15:50 Zealeo wrote: I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious. theres a lot and very reliable information about how unhealthy milk is for adults, and well it makes sense since no other animal consumes milk after they reach maturity. That's unfortunate. I figure people have been drinking milk for a very long time now and things seem to be going alright. There are too many other things I need to worry about killing me than fucking milk. i dont drink milk either just because it doesnt fit into my diet anywhere, not for any reason, i guess i just dont like it t much.. but what r some other good sources of calcium? or w/e it is in milk that help keep ur bones strong.. cuz i kinda worry about that sometimes.

I like to take multi-vitamins since I probably don't get enough of everything from my diet alone. You'll get calcium from most dairy products. Cheese, yogurt, etc. I drink a fair bit of milk but only skim, there is an unbelievable amount of fat in even 2% milk.

milkman wrote:[/B] i dont drink milk either just because it doesnt fit into my diet anywhere, not for any reason, i guess i just dont like it t much.. but what r some other good sources of calcium? or w/e it is in milk that help keep ur bones strong.. cuz i kinda worry about that sometimes.

am i missing something? lol

But on topic, the meats that we consume on a mass scale, especially in America, are filled with vitamins, and chemicals to support the mass demand. If you search for it, you can find steak and beef, chicken etc... Where its not produced for the mass demand, and instead produced for the sake of the good taste.

In fact, when you go to the grocery story, and order a Grade A beef or steak, it's just how the steak looks, not what's in it. There are many farmers where you can usually find at farmers markets etc... where the meat is going to cost you more, but the cows that made the meat were raised in their natural environment. what I mean by this, is that they eat what cows eat in the wild, instead of the bio-fueled corn chunks, or the pigs are not eating the remains of other pigs. After going to the slaughter house, instead of being chemically aged, it is hung in a freezer which you see in the old movies. They are "dry aged" and thus, it is way better than your mere "grade A beef".

I still like my Fuddruckers burgers, and my McDonalds chicken nuggets, but if I really wanted to eat healthy, I would still eat my steak, and my hamburgers, I'd still eat my chicken, I just would make sure where I'm getting it, the animals were raised in a more natural environment, and the meat non-chemically aged.

On February 23 2009 18:37 milkman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 18:31 Zealeo wrote:   On February 23 2009 16:49 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 15:50 Zealeo wrote: I get by pretty good with just milk, protein powder, eggs and fish. I've never really eaten a lot of beef and pork to begin with, it's packed with saturated fat anyway. I've dropped poultry as well even though it's fucking delicious. theres a lot and very reliable information about how unhealthy milk is for adults, and well it makes sense since no other animal consumes milk after they reach maturity. That's unfortunate. I figure people have been drinking milk for a very long time now and things seem to be going alright. There are too many other things I need to worry about killing me than fucking milk. i dont drink milk either just because it doesnt fit into my diet anywhere, not for any reason, i guess i just dont like it t much.. but what r some other good sources of calcium? or w/e it is in milk that help keep ur bones strong.. cuz i kinda worry about that sometimes.

Well according to those numbers ironically Milk doesnt allow calcium to be fixated on the bones leading to osteoporosis.

These are non dairy products that have calcium:

* Salmon
* Tofu
* Rhubarb
* Sardines
* Collard greens
* Spinach
* Turnip greens
* Okra
* White beans
* Baked beans
* Broccoli
* Peas
* Brussel sprouts
* Sesame seeds
* Bok choy
* Almonds

On February 23 2009 18:26 milkman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 16:33 milkman wrote: lol im kinda scared to watch it, but i cant ever turn down a documentary, watching docs is my #1 way to learn now days. ill post my response after i watch it. brb! i watched the whole thing, and i want my time back.. this video wasnt a documentary, it was a fucking hour and a half long PETA recruitment ad. It was TOTALLY one sided, and didnt touch or go in depth on many things that were worth talking about. It was just like Americas Funniest Home Videos, but switch funny, with sick fucked up rednecks treating animals horribly.. and no Bob Saget, they just picked out the worst videos they could find from every type of animal killing, slopped um all together and put a "Documentary" tag on it.. what a horrible piece of crap. if you want to watch a good documentary, check out PBS frontline docs, voodoos war, and the meltdown r two that i really liked.

how long is it, just to check if its worth watching just to bash loco if it sucks

no way am i gonna stop eating delicious juicy stakes

that video made me hungry, brb cook steak

On February 23 2009 17:25 Baal wrote: read a thread before posting in it please... We are not discussing saving biodiversity or the planet, we are discussing animal treatment here. For the record i also belive "saving the planet" is retarded and its just a movement for idiots who want to be part of something big: oh thanks for driving an hidrogen car, you are such a mankind saver, just right next to Kakaroto.

Actually i think we ARE talking about how our appetite for meat is not only immoral (for some people) but that it is damaging our environment.
Playing off environmentalism as a trendy fad is beyond ignorant. Its like being cool with pissing and shitting all over yourself and where you sleep. Which is exactly what polluting our environment amounts to.

what the fuck at the dude dropping a massive rock/brick onto the dead pigs head

fucking disgusting video and a disgrace to human beings

i love animals but i am eating whatever the fuck i want no hesitation

On February 23 2009 20:46 WastedGate wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 17:25 Baal wrote: read a thread before posting in it please... We are not discussing saving biodiversity or the planet, we are discussing animal treatment here. For the record i also belive "saving the planet" is retarded and its just a movement for idiots who want to be part of something big: oh thanks for driving an hidrogen car, you are such a mankind saver, just right next to Kakaroto. Actually i think we ARE talking about how our appetite for meat is not only immoral (for some people) but that it is damaging our environment. Playing off environmentalism as a trendy fad is beyond ignorant. Its like being cool with pissing and shitting all over yourself and where you sleep. Which is exactly what polluting our environment amounts to.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most enviromentalists are fucking trendy retards who dont even do their homework about the stuff they defend, for more information look at this:

loool

well if a 0% human impact turned into a 3% impact on a stable and sensitive environment ... what im saying is who's to say a 3% impact isn't extremely significant? not that theres anything we can do about it

the one thing you should take away from these environment people is that they DO look to the "longterm". no politicians or businessmen or governments give a flying fuck about what the world is gonna be like in the next 20 or 50 or 100 years.... im glad that someone is interested in it (and they have to get their money and support in a variety of ways)

On February 23 2009 23:28 Perisie wrote: loool well if a 0% human impact turned into a 3% impact on a stable and sensitive environment ... what im saying is who's to say a 3% impact isn't extremely significant? not that theres anything we can do about it the one thing you should take away from these environment people is that they DO look to the "longterm". no politicians or businessmen or governments give a flying fuck about what the world is gonna be like in the next 20 or 50 or 100 years.... im glad that someone is interested in it (and they have to get their money and support in a variety of ways)

watch the c02 swing graph on thousand on years from the north pole ice records and u will see why 3% is meaningless.

I'd also like to point out that I respect the choices of people who eat meat, but I don't respect the cowards who are afraid to see the truth behind it.

This is such a childish sentence. OOOh meat eaters are evil ooh.
The problem isnt in eating meat at all. The problem is far far more complex.
You have sex without planning for a child? Youre at fault. Youre overpopulating this planet.
You use condom? Well you can still get pregnant with condoms, they give it 10% fault rate, and as a poker player u know that on a 6 billion planet that matters.
You dont use condom but your girlfriend is on a pill? Well pill is 100 times more dangerous then what they put in our meat.

So as u can see, sex-havers are evil.

GTFO.

On February 23 2009 13:36 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 11:30 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots. I don't care. It has no relevance whether you want the situation to be improved, it simply is not happening and it won't happen, it's wishful thinking. And if it was to happen you'd pay more for your meat, you wouldn't want that would you? I've already mentioned how idiotic I thought the whole "there are worse things in the world happening, so the animals and environment is the least of our worries" was, you need to understand that it sparks from the exact same place but with food consumption you can actually make a difference! Whereas you are a silent observer to those other things happening in the world. the difference in price in my meat would be unnoticable if animals are treated correctly, i dont know how i can make a difference... by not eating meat? oh yeah that will teach them... sorry but i enjoy my meat sir, animals should be treated better, if there is a petition, ill sign it, if there is a vote on it, ill vote, but i wont stop eating meat, its stupid.

?? Of course that will do a difference. What if everybody was as insensible and indifferent as you on the matter? There would be no vegans and vegetarians, do you need to see more numbers to see how much of a difference they make? I like meat too, I'm just aware that I don't need it to be healthy and it doesn't make me sleep better at night to comfort myself that it is the WORLD that inflicts pain on the animals and that I don't personally want it but I have to deal with it! That's fucking bullshit and it's a child's mentality, everyone does its part and you encourage them to keep up with their practices by eating meat. Just don't kid yourself about it and try to convince yourself that you care.

This is tilting me pretty hard, people stop eating meat and post a link to a documentary on some forum and they feel like their consciousness has been cleared, their good deed is done.
I propose u volunteer, or better yet donate money to people who know what theyre doing. Cos right now youre doing nothing but fancying yourself.

On February 23 2009 13:38 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 11:40 Loco wrote: I meant that in a general way, I was not genuinely asking Baal or anyone if they would want that. It's just not happening. yeah its not happening, and its not the fault of meat eating people its the fault of the government, who are the only ones who can enforce slaughter houses to do stuff. so to raise awareness of this is obviously a very good thing, wanting to people to become vegetarians is just retarded. BTW what is the exact diffrence between a vegetarian, a vegan and a microbiotic, and what are the "philosophies" behind those.

what's retarded about taking care of the environment and wanting to let animals live a natural life? we aren't God, we aren't superior to animals they inhabit our planet and we share it with them. it is no longer a necessity to kill them, let alone a necessity to produce so much meat and unnaturally. becoming vegan/vegetarian is the one best thing a person can do in their life by simply making a choice -- if you have morals. there is nothing that can have a bigger impact on the planet than this unless you're a public speaker or whatever.


vegans don't eat any animal products at all, vegetarian don't eat animal flesh including fish but eat dairy products.

On February 23 2009 14:47 CrownRoyal wrote: you guys have no idea what my values are, I think people should have to pass tests to have kids and there should be check ups to make sure the kid is being raised right, if he isnt give him to sterile parents that are qualified. Then we come so much closer to utopia it's ridiculous. animal rights is retarded

wow you have values?

you're right there should be check ups and for yourself they should've dumped you in a dumpster

On February 23 2009 15:20 DooMeR wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 08:01 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 06:38 Neutral Milk wrote: Predators can eat meat but it's immoral for humans to do so? Nature built us to be omnivores, although admittedly we probly eat a lot more meat than is necessary Do you think you're the first person who brings up this argument? WE'RE OMNIVORES FUCK THIS, NATURE'S LAW!! No, fuck that. That's fucking bullshit. The food is not even NATURAL. Most of the shit you eat is processed and the meat you eat is full of hormones, antibiotics and other shit which only ups your chances of getting cancer and multiple other diseases. Vegans and vegetarians are much more healthy and disease free and it has been proven in researches. It is immoral if you know what's going on behind the industry, yes. It's also immoral if you consider that eating is meant to feed the body and isn't supposed to be immense pleasure or glutonny. The body can be perfectly healthy without eating animals or animal products, nobody has any excuses for the slaughter of all the animals that they eat, except laziness and pleasure from it. You need to whatch more House ^^ how 2 vegan morons almost killed they baby by giving him a vegan diet. and wtf is all this shit about eating animals cuz of lazyness? do u know how long it takes to make a salad compared to BBQing a stake? liek i said before, Im all up for treating the animals better but im still gonna eat them with no remorse. I can give you more examples say ur stuck in an island no edible fruit or feeding trees what do you do? You fish right u bait the poor animal make him swallow a hook then you yank him off out of teh water where he suffocates. YEAH u animal abuser you. The companies do teh same shit they just do it mor eefficiently I admit its fucked up but just cuz of that does not mean you dont have to eat meat if you dont like the way tehy do it grow your own. -Jorge

Wow yeah, I need to watch a fictional show to learn things, thanks Jorge.

Yes I would eat an animal if it was a question of survival, but it is not for each and every one of us, and we are MORE healthy by actually dropping the meat or reducing our consumption of it. Are you really this narrow-minded? Tap yourself on the back buddy, nothing is your fault and you can't do nothing about it, why care.

On February 23 2009 18:26 milkman wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 16:33 milkman wrote: lol im kinda scared to watch it, but i cant ever turn down a documentary, watching docs is my #1 way to learn now days. ill post my response after i watch it. brb! i watched the whole thing, and i want my time back.. this video wasnt a documentary, it was a fucking hour and a half long PETA recruitment ad. It was TOTALLY one sided, and didnt touch or go in depth on many things that were worth talking about. It was just like Americas Funniest Home Videos, but switch funny, with sick fucked up rednecks treating animals horribly.. and no Bob Saget, they just picked out the worst videos they could find from every type of animal killing, slopped um all together and put a "Documentary" tag on it.. what a horrible piece of crap. if you want to watch a good documentary, check out PBS frontline docs, voodoos war, and the meltdown r two that i really liked.

What were you expecting? And yes it is very much a documentary, because you learn things. It's much more than just a meet your meat video showing slaughter after slaughter. Of course it will be graphic, they are using hidden cameras for a reason... and it's the only thing that can have a strong enough impact on people who were raised to be indifferent about the whole thing.

On February 24 2009 00:09 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + I'd also like to point out that I respect the choices of people who eat meat, but I don't respect the cowards who are afraid to see the truth behind it. This is such a childish sentence. OOOh meat eaters are evil ooh. The problem isnt in eating meat at all. The problem is far far more complex. You have sex without planning for a child? Youre at fault. Youre overpopulating this planet. You use condom? Well you can still get pregnant with condoms, they give it 10% fault rate, and as a poker player u know that on a 6 billion planet that matters. You dont use condom but your girlfriend is on a pill? Well pill is 100 times more dangerous then what they put in our meat. So as u can see, sex-havers are evil. GTFO.

what? where did I say people were evil for eating meat? I said I respected their choices, but the practices behind it is evil, and if one just doesn't care about what he eats then he isn't aware of them and isn't in the position of making a choice, that's all that my post meant, I don't understand where your animosity comes from.

On February 24 2009 00:16 SfydjkLm wrote: This is tilting me pretty hard, people stop eating meat and post a link to a documentary on some forum and they feel like their consciousness has been cleared, their good deed is done. I propose u volunteer, or better yet donate money to people who know what theyre doing. Cos right now youre doing nothing but fancying yourself.

My "good deed" isn't done until I'm dead. I'm not getting any satisfaction from this but I know that if I even make one person change their diet with my post it was worth it. That is time well spent my friend, unlike your useless post raving about how I'm just trying to feel better about myself. Get a clue.

On February 24 2009 00:14 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 13:36 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 11:30 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots. I don't care. It has no relevance whether you want the situation to be improved, it simply is not happening and it won't happen, it's wishful thinking. And if it was to happen you'd pay more for your meat, you wouldn't want that would you? I've already mentioned how idiotic I thought the whole "there are worse things in the world happening, so the animals and environment is the least of our worries" was, you need to understand that it sparks from the exact same place but with food consumption you can actually make a difference! Whereas you are a silent observer to those other things happening in the world. the difference in price in my meat would be unnoticable if animals are treated correctly, i dont know how i can make a difference... by not eating meat? oh yeah that will teach them... sorry but i enjoy my meat sir, animals should be treated better, if there is a petition, ill sign it, if there is a vote on it, ill vote, but i wont stop eating meat, its stupid. ?? Of course that will do a difference. What if everybody was as insensible and indifferent as you on the matter? There would be no vegans and vegetarians, do you need to see more numbers to see how much of a difference they make? I like meat too, I'm just aware that I don't need it to be healthy and it doesn't make me sleep better at night to comfort myself that it is the WORLD that inflicts pain on the animals and that I don't personally want it but I have to deal with it! That's fucking bullshit and it's a child's mentality, everyone does its part and you encourage them to keep up with their practices by eating meat. Just don't kid yourself about it and try to convince yourself that you care.

omg there would be no vegans/vegetarians? zomg what would the world be without them! -_-

i cant believe you are arguing this on such a low level seriously...

Being against animal cruelty is what matters not if u fucking eat them or not, if the whole world cared about animal cruelty there would be non since enough people pressure the government to take action, so raise awareness for animal cruelty and dont spread retarded vegan unfounded BS.


You havent said one single time why we should "go vegan" instead of simply be aware and against animal cruelty.

I like animals, but I like steaks more

On February 24 2009 01:01 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 00:14 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 13:36 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 11:30 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 11:26 Baal wrote:   On February 23 2009 08:05 Loco wrote:   On February 23 2009 07:56 Nazgul wrote: I'm a vegetarian without the balls to stick up for my beliefs. I eat meat all the time and would never limit myself to not eating it. I do think we should take much better care of the animals we raise to eat and such though. The stuff that goes on there is sickening. Does that make you sleep better at night though? I mean you know that it's not going to happen right? It has to be more cost effective and the more the animals are mistreated the less they have to spend money on their well being. like Nazgul, i am in favor of improving the conditions of the livestock and the animals we eat, but i am totally for their consumption. I have no trouble sleeping at night for it, i do care about it, however focusing so much energy on animals when the whole world is such a fucked up place where we treat often humans worse than animals its vain and retarded, and that is the reason why i hate PETA faggots. I don't care. It has no relevance whether you want the situation to be improved, it simply is not happening and it won't happen, it's wishful thinking. And if it was to happen you'd pay more for your meat, you wouldn't want that would you? I've already mentioned how idiotic I thought the whole "there are worse things in the world happening, so the animals and environment is the least of our worries" was, you need to understand that it sparks from the exact same place but with food consumption you can actually make a difference! Whereas you are a silent observer to those other things happening in the world. the difference in price in my meat would be unnoticable if animals are treated correctly, i dont know how i can make a difference... by not eating meat? oh yeah that will teach them... sorry but i enjoy my meat sir, animals should be treated better, if there is a petition, ill sign it, if there is a vote on it, ill vote, but i wont stop eating meat, its stupid. ?? Of course that will do a difference. What if everybody was as insensible and indifferent as you on the matter? There would be no vegans and vegetarians, do you need to see more numbers to see how much of a difference they make? I like meat too, I'm just aware that I don't need it to be healthy and it doesn't make me sleep better at night to comfort myself that it is the WORLD that inflicts pain on the animals and that I don't personally want it but I have to deal with it! That's fucking bullshit and it's a child's mentality, everyone does its part and you encourage them to keep up with their practices by eating meat. Just don't kid yourself about it and try to convince yourself that you care. omg there would be no vegans/vegetarians? zomg what would the world be without them! -_- i cant believe you are arguing this on such a low level seriously... Being against animal cruelty is what matters not if u fucking eat them or not, if the whole world cared about animal cruelty there would be non since enough people pressure the government to take action, so raise awareness for animal cruelty and dont spread retarded vegan unfounded BS. You havent said one single time why we should "go vegan" instead of simply be aware and against animal cruelty.

Okay sorry there were just so many posts that I was lost and quickly replied to everyone... I also assumed that people watched the last video I posted in my edit in the initial post that shows just how inefficient it is.

My problems are involved with the industrialized side of the world, or what's also called the "takers society". To make 1 pound of animal protein, it takes an average of 10 pounds of vegetable proteins. So what that means is that we are losing 9 pounds of vegetable proteins to what? Crap. We're using food that could be going to humans because the animals we nourish poop them. Now, if everyone in the entire world stopped eating meat then all of the land that's being used for the cows could be used to feed humans. But wait, that land is on American soil so how does that help the people in 3rd world countries? Well all the grains and vegetables they use for the cows they get from the 3rd world countries because it's cheaper. Also the land happens to be more fertile and there's less concrete. So, by not eating meat, you're making it so more people in the world can eat. That food would be going to those 3rd world countries instead of the "takers society", people in this highly developed civilization who don't need this additional food. Same for the production of honey, all the space used for that could be used to grow food to go to 3rd world countries. All the water going into feeding the animals is just ridiculous as well, watch the last video in my main post if you haven't seen it. So from an humanistic point of view it's much more than just the animal cruelty that doesn't make sense.

If your curious about statistics there are tons of sites, this one has a shitload: http://planetaryrenewal.org/ipr/vegetarian.html

yea one of my friends has that exact same viewpoint that it's inefficient as a whole to be eating meat cuz we lose out on precious "energy"

but damn man having some korean BBQ after a work out is like better than anything in the world.

i also hate peta faggots who think themselves as enlightened/better or whatever and have their moral trips cuz they eat meat. similar to that of a religious fanatic.

I also find them annoying if they use that to boost their egos, but it's irrelevant. It is a very good thing to do and they are doing it and it's all that matters. Every single vegan/vegetarian makes a difference on how much less we abuse the planet and its inhabitants and the health benefits are just a bonus.

And again it's a choice to be a glutton and it has negative effects on both the environment and your body.

On February 24 2009 02:44 Loco wrote: And again it's a choice to be a glutton and it has negative effects on both the environment and your body.

And this is retarded... eating meat =/= gluttony, unless you consider finding pleasure in eating is gluttony, and if you do you should consider buying a yellow cloak and move to tibet

teh house thing was an obv joke ffs...


-Jorge

On February 24 2009 00:21 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 23 2009 14:47 CrownRoyal wrote: you guys have no idea what my values are, I think people should have to pass tests to have kids and there should be check ups to make sure the kid is being raised right, if he isnt give him to sterile parents that are qualified. Then we come so much closer to utopia it's ridiculous. animal rights is retarded wow you have values? you're right there should be check ups and for yourself they should've dumped you in a dumpster

Sorry I don't share the hippy mindset. You're so ridiculously caught up in your ideas and you act like you aren't just an FYI enlightened one.

i agree with baal. also i think your last argument is ridic loco. No one would ever stop eating meat to help feed other countries. thats not a reason to not eat meat. its a solution to a completely different problem.

Crownroyal, why are you talking about my views in an attempt to defend your ignorance? Even Baal who doesn't agree with my views said you were an ignorant and he was spot on. But I think everyone who's been on this site long enough already knows that you aren't a very intelligent person so there isn't much to discuss with you about this, sorry if I'm being rude.

On February 24 2009 05:42 fakeshaver wrote: i agree with baal. also i think your last argument is ridic loco. No one would ever stop eating meat to help feed other countries. thats not a reason to not eat meat. its a solution to a completely different problem.

How is it ridiculous? It was hypothetical and it clearly shows that it would be a more efficient way to feed human-beings.

On February 24 2009 05:48 Loco wrote: Crownroyal, why are you talking about my views in an attempt to defend your ignorance? Even Baal who doesn't agree with my views said you were an ignorant and he was spot on. But I think everyone who's been on this site long enough already knows that you aren't a very intelligent person so there isn't much to discuss with you about this, sorry if I'm being rude.

Look at what you're writing you post in such a condescending manner it's ridiculous

what the fuck makes you any better than me?

Sorry if i'm being rude, faggot.

I'm sorry Baal but you just aren't looking at the bigger picture here. You are too concerned with individuality. It is of course true that it does "very little" but that is relative anyway. How is very little?

By going vegan for a month, you save:

8000 gallons of water
a quarter acre of land
a quarter ton of soil erosion
a half ton of polluting animal manure
the CO2 equivalent of 270 pounds of greenhouse gases
the energy equivalent of burning 7 gallons of gasoline, and
160 pounds of crops wasted on farmed animals.

Of course it isn't gigantic on a very large scale but if that one person makes a few other people become vegan and so on during their lifespan it doesn't take very long before it makes a drastic difference on the planet. Thinking that you are just one individual on this planet and that what you do has no importance is just ignorance.

Donating is obviously a great thing also but how can you make sure it is going to them and how does it solve the source of the problem? We shouldn't just be aware of the problem and try to make it less of a problem, we should seek the source and remove the problem as a whole. You also have to be aware of those things and also have the money for it, whereas changing your nutrition is a very easy thing to do and you also don't need to have spare money for it. And fwiw, a lot of people donate to charity to get that feeling of accomplishment and feel generous and believe it will bring them good karma, so your argument is void and it is completely irrelevant. I don't care about how other vegetarian/vegans act and how proud they are to be as such, I can only speak for myself and I don't do it for my self-esteem, I do it because it makes sense to do it.

Glutonny is eating in excess and/or getting extreme pleasures from food. So when someone says hmmmmmm I love steaks so much they're so tasty I would never give up eating them they're pretty much being gluttons. They do what they do because they don't care about what's behind it, the industries, the environment, and only want to please their tastebuds. That is your choice, but that is also glutonny and only in this fucked up world can such a thing happen, because it is certainly not natural for some humans to be gluttons and others to starve to death.

On February 24 2009 06:07 CrownRoyal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 05:48 Loco wrote: Crownroyal, why are you talking about my views in an attempt to defend your ignorance? Even Baal who doesn't agree with my views said you were an ignorant and he was spot on. But I think everyone who's been on this site long enough already knows that you aren't a very intelligent person so there isn't much to discuss with you about this, sorry if I'm being rude. Look at what you're writing you post in such a condescending manner it's ridiculous what the fuck makes you any better than me? Sorry if i'm being rude, faggot.

Well I thought it was clear enough, you're an ignorant. I'm not. If this means to you that I believe that I am a much better person than you, then it must be true.

i'm ignorant because i can see the big picture and regardless how i treat an animal it isn't gonna make any difference.

you're not going to change the world with your current views no one gives a fuck. you're wasting your time even replying to anyone here it is crystal clear that no one is going to change their values because you posted a biased PETA video on lp.

I can tell you that I live in a real farm community and animals get treated MUCH better than if they were to graze the world on their own.

No you're an ignorant, plain and simple. I wasn't just talking about this. People like you make blog posts about their lives ups and down, and you think you see the bigger picture? ...

Yeah well I know for a fact that word to mouth works very well, or else I wouldn't be vegan myself, pretty useless to try to discourage me on this really. It is true that I'm not going to change the mind of some people, but that doesn't really matter and it's not time wasted to discuss such things to me. I'm also learning at the same time because I didn't research much before making this thread.

nm i just read some of the thread that i missed and your point is now to save the environment.

i can't really insult you for that and it's an honorable cause. I guess i'll just feel guilty that i'm not doing my part by being a vegan and intead a "glutton". I think i would starve to death if i had to be a vegan though literally over half of what I eat is associated with animals.

I really do think that you get wayyyyyyy out of hand with closeminded thoughts once you've decided something is right you can't even look at something else and consider it.

Close-minded thoughts? Right or wrong? Who decides such things? It all boils down to if it is natural or not. I believe in nature's way of doing things, plain and simple.

On February 24 2009 06:25 Loco wrote: No you're an ignorant, plain and simple. I wasn't just talking about this. People like you make blog posts about their lives ups and down, and you think you see the bigger picture? ... Yeah well I know for a fact that word to mouth works very well, or else I wouldn't be vegan myself, pretty useless to try to discourage me on this really. It is true that I'm not going to change the mind of some people, but that doesn't really matter and it's not time wasted to discuss such things to me. I'm also learning at the same time because I didn't research much before making this thread.

and people like you donate 5k+ to bands for their selfish desires when kids are starving in africa

while you're at it why dont you just withdraw your every penny and donate it and become a monk?
how can you play poker and not feel guilty about yourself??? taking money from the unenlightened so that they can't feed their families and let you build up a greedy horde of money.

So when you say you believe you would starve, that implies that if you would cut meat you would be too stupid to learn to feed yourself with non-animal products? I believe you'd want to survive and make some efforts in learning how to live healthy as a vegan. Either way, it's not about turning everyone into vegans instantly, people should just go progressively as far as they comfortably can. People already eat way too much meat, they should just cut the consumption percentage and perhaps after become vegetarians or vegans.

On February 24 2009 06:31 CrownRoyal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 06:25 Loco wrote: No you're an ignorant, plain and simple. I wasn't just talking about this. People like you make blog posts about their lives ups and down, and you think you see the bigger picture? ... Yeah well I know for a fact that word to mouth works very well, or else I wouldn't be vegan myself, pretty useless to try to discourage me on this really. It is true that I'm not going to change the mind of some people, but that doesn't really matter and it's not time wasted to discuss such things to me. I'm also learning at the same time because I didn't research much before making this thread. and people like you donate 5k+ to bands for their selfish desires when kids are starving in africa while you're at it why dont you just withdraw your every penny and donate it and become a monk? how can you play poker and not feel guilty about yourself??? taking money from the unenlightened so that they can't feed their families and let you build up a greedy horde of money.

I'll give you a point on the donation, it was a selfish thing. If there can be such a thing as a selfish donation, because I did please a lot of people around the world by doing this. But what can I say, music has been my way of life since I was very young and this one band pretty much changed my views on music. What's done is done anyway and I cannot regret such a thing. I am not the same person anymore though.

I think you're being very out of line here. For all you know, I could very well give away my possessions tomorrow and become a monk, you have no idea of who I am. It would be very silly to assume that you know me. Please stop centering this thread all on me now, I do not care about your views of me and you are wasting both yours and my time.

i'm not directing anything at you until you insult my integrity as a human and talk to me in a condescending tone when you nor i am better than anyone in this world.

i'll quit posting here now and derailing, however.

EDIT: That's incorrect. You believe in such a thing as your integrity and feel the need to defend it simply because you are an ego-driven ignorant.

On February 24 2009 06:45 Loco wrote: EDIT: That's incorrect. You believe in such a thing as your integrity and feel the need to defend it simply because you are an ego-driven ignorant.

i said i wasn't gonna post anymore but i'm ok with this yes, i have an ego.

at least i'm real with who i am and don't try to act like i care about the world and then berate anyone who disagrees with me and then do things that make me a hypocrite to my own ideas.

That person you make me out to be only exists in your head.

On February 24 2009 06:35 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2009 06:31 CrownRoyal wrote:   On February 24 2009 06:25 Loco wrote: No you're an ignorant, plain and simple. I wasn't just talking about this. People like you make blog posts about their lives ups and down, and you think you see the bigger picture? ... Yeah well I know for a fact that word to mouth works very well, or else I wouldn't be vegan myself, pretty useless to try to discourage me on this really. It is true that I'm not going to change the mind of some people, but that doesn't really matter and it's not time wasted to discuss such things to me. I'm also learning at the same time because I didn't research much before making this thread. and people like you donate 5k+ to bands for their selfish desires when kids are starving in africa while you're at it why dont you just withdraw your every penny and donate it and become a monk? how can you play poker and not feel guilty about yourself??? taking money from the unenlightened so that they can't feed their families and let you build up a greedy horde of money. I'll give you a point on the donation, it was a selfish thing. If there can be such a thing as a selfish donation, because I did please a lot of people around the world by doing this. But what can I say, music has been my way of life since I was very young and this one band pretty much changed my views on music. What's done is done anyway and I cannot regret such a thing. I am not the same person anymore though. I think you're being very out of line here. For all you know, I could very well give away my possessions tomorrow and become a monk, you have no idea of who I am. It would be very silly to assume that you know me. Please stop centering this thread all on me now, I do not care about your views of me and you are wasting both yours and my time.

how can you say this about me knowing you and then you sit here and insult me?

rofl

get real man

everything only exists in my head, without my head the world isn't here.

i am a slave to my own perception, so are you.

this is why we disagree.

the world is a zero sum, i am a variable.

quit editing your posts so that things i post dont make sense

You make yourself very public CrownRoyal. Knowing that you are an ego-driven ignorant is enough. Whereas you have no idea of who I am and of my purpose behind what I do. Your purpose is to inflate your ego, clearly. What about mine? Do you think I have made this thread to inflate my ego? No, some people will see it as me trying to spread awareness and they would be right. What you think about it is irrelevant anyway, you are stuck in your own little world always being so defensive about your values and integrity.

so when you posted your blog about donating 5k+ or whatever it was to that band what was your purpose, enlightened one?

"i'm not the same person i was then"

yes you are, you can't change who you are. you are molded by society and can't break down who you are at the core.

I don't post purely for ego either, i'd be doing a pretty fucking bad job if i was cause my image on this site isn't how i would want the world to perceive me at all.

Everything you do is for your ego. Your perception is very limited. Do you think that I hate you for it?

I was the same person you are when I made that blog post back then. No difference.

ALL ABOOAAARD !

Also discussion are so everybody can give their opinion and not 1 guy gives a opposite opinion of what everything else think ->>> everyone starts hating the guy in the thread wtf?!
Im actually happy when there are many different opinions and u should be too

Who is being hated?

loco i think it's really cool that you donated to that band and i think it is clearly worthy of a brag post.

that's my whole point though, everyone loves attention from time to time and there is absolutely nothing wrong with ego posting. You can't change people it's ridiculous to expect to.

you have to change the world in a different way than with people we are hardwired to be the way we are.

I do not share your sentiments on the donation or the brag, but then again I do not see myself as being the one who did it. And yes, it is possible to be changed. It isn't your choice though.

As much as I in general always have felt some despise towards idealists(for no real reason I might add) the faked pragmatism and nihilism of our generation seriously fucking pisses me off. Everyone is hiding behind bogus pragmatic excuses for doing nothing when 90% of the time the motives are simply egotistical and the driving factor is lazyness. Its funny how nobody ever provides a better argument for eating meat than simply "i enjoy it" which in my opinion is an unacceptable excuse for making animals suffer.

You cant just disregard the message of PETA because they are on a high horse, have dreadlocks or smell funny, and you definitely cant look down on them. They are doing the world a greater service than most of you guys ever will.

As for eating meat, I dont necessarily think its anything wrong with killing an animal to eat it in terms of just the act of killing, the world wide implications excluded. However, making animals suffer in the process is unacceptable. I wouldnt be suprised if in 200 years people will look upon how we treat animals today in a similar way that all of us look at slavery. Im not saying animals and humans are equal, but that doesnt give us a free pass to do whatever the fuck we want with a cow.

Personally I have been thinking of going vegetarian on and off for years, I still havent managed to take that step and that doesnt make me feel good. However, I almost exclusively eat meat from swedish organic farms which are pretty well regulated and where I like to think the suffering of the animals is minimal. That is probably not a good enough justification in terms of moral responsibility though, but atleast I have the balls to admit it.

To Loco: Mad props sir, you have a stronger character than me and for that I applaude you.

To CrownRoyal: It seems you have similar delusions of grandeur regarding intellect as you have in poker. Guess what? If this thread was a poker game, you would be the micro stakes grinder.

it's responsibility and delusions of grandeur

ty

You sure it isnt illusions of grandure? lol