me + poker - Page 2

On October 17 2009 17:08 concrescence wrote: how big a part of your game is 4betting? what kind of sizing do you typically like and how do you change it based on stack sizes/opponents? what kind of hands do you like to 4bet and 5bet shove as a bluff?

Complex question since its very dynamic and player and image oriented.
4betting is not a massive part of my game but it is important, I don't think I 4bet as much as a lot of other regs. against a frequent 3-bettor it's important to establish that you can have a wide value-range for 4betting, which makes their life much tougher and much more difficult for them to 5-bet bluffshove, at which point 4bet bluffing is very good in dynamics like this. I'm also more likely to 4-bet over flat-call if i'm out of position

In term's of sizing, in a 100bb deep game, if you're in-position you can really do any sizing you want, including clicking it back can be very useful. If I open OTB to 3bb, and the SB or BB makes it 10bb, i will generally go to 22.5BB in position, but if i'm out of position I will usually go to 23.5bb. Another thing to consider with sizing is that I generally don't like to put in more than 1/4 of my stack with a 4bet, b/c at that point you are getting close to committed with many hands. Generally if my 4-bet HAS to be greater than 1/4 of my stack due to a large squeeze or re-raise I will often shove instead of 4-bet (opponent dependent) but no reason to give your opponents another option unless you think it will trick them into a mistake. (This is when they know you're committed after 4betting)

In terms of hands I like to use, as a 4bet bluff Ax or Kx is nice since it lowers the combos of your opponents most likely hand that wants to 3b/5b (AK), but its really more about dynamics than what my hand is when i'm considering 4betting. in terms of 5-betting I will generally 3-bet with a plan, so if i'm 3-betting 88 it's because i expect my opponent to 4-bet bluff often enough that a 5-bet shove is profitable. The weakest hands I usually 3b/5b shove are KQ / any pair (dynamics need to be created for this to be decent). sometimes I go with my gut and will shove hands like Q6 suited if I feel my opponents bluffing frequency is extremely high for some reason

On October 17 2009 17:17 milkman wrote: when i lived with u i prolly asked u everything i could think of, and dont think theres much i could think of asking that i dont already know.. but that was like 2 years ago. So my question is whats changed.. whats the most different stuff in ur life now than 2 years ago when we all lived together.

Hmm i'm not sure, i feel like i was much more care-free back then than I am now and much less future-oriented. I really wish I had written stuff down sometimes so I could compare my different mindsets, cuz i really don't remember. i probably smoked too much weed and fried my brain. I feel like i had an easier time enjoying things back then compared to now

On October 17 2009 17:28 MezmerizePLZ wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2009 17:17 milkman wrote: when i lived with u i prolly asked u everything i could think of, and dont think theres much i could think of asking that i dont already know.. but that was like 2 years ago. So my question is whats changed.. whats the most different stuff in ur life now than 2 years ago when we all lived together. Hmm i'm not sure, i feel like i was much more care-free back then than I am now and much less future-oriented. I really wish I had written stuff down sometimes so I could compare my different mindsets, cuz i really don't remember. i probably smoked too much weed and fried my brain. I feel like i had an easier time enjoying things back then compared to now

prolly just the idea of the future baring down on u and stressing u out.. one thing i learned about u really fast was u dont like to deal with stress at all.. u should try and de-stress ur whole life as much as possible and c if maybe u start to enjoy things easier again..

i think back then ur mindset was alot like "ehh i just graduated highschool i got money and im gonna do w/e i wanna do cuz im having fun" and now its more like u feel like what ever you do now needs to be correct cuz its for the rest of your life.. which its not.. ur still only 20.. u just need to get back into that mind state of when u just graduated ..

Do you know how to surf?
Do you want to learn?
Can we go surfing in California soon?

On October 17 2009 17:49 Bigbobm wrote: Do you know how to surf? Do you want to learn? Can we go surfing in California soon?

No I don't know how to surf
Sure I'd like to learn but its not really something I'm going to randomly go to California to do. Probably wouldn't be willing to go for at least 6 months

bob i thought u were scared of sharks?

Ya but lets be honest, who isn't? They have pretty big fucken teeth.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to go until the summer anyway.

On October 17 2009 16:28 CamilaPunt wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2009 16:01 concrescence wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey man, Sorry to hear about the 200k swing. I recently changed my diet from very little fruit/vegetables and mostly fatty unhealthy meals to a vegan diet (cant eat meat or dairy) b/c i wanted to force myself to question everything i eat, i.e. 'oh that looks cool, wait, wtf is that?'. When i switched i anticipated there would be other changes as well after lots of chats with loco and vegan friends. I should state that before i switched i was often feeling stuffy/bloated after meals and didnt feel like playing that much and tilted pretty often, maybe - 2 or 3 bb/100 in tilt, which is obv more than what some people beat the game for. After making the change and having been on it for a month i dont tilt anymore. I dont have any downtime due to bloated/unhappy feeling and always feel full of energy and alert. I've noticed weight loss (~20lbs) without really trying to excercise and different effects such as my skin looking/feeling a lot better. Imo, this is all pretty fucking awesome for a poker player in particular where your entire life is focused into making the correct bet/call. Idk what your diet is but imo you should try this out. It really helped me stop tilting 99.99%. I try to eat as much raw food as possible to get the extra benefits lost from cooking vegetables. I pretty much eat similar stuff most days and just modify it however i feel like, adding/removing stuff, etc. If you're interested, or just wanna implement some of this stuff into your diet try starting off with a smoothie every day for breakfast and see how you feel. I have this monster every day (~1.5 litres) with some variation: - Spinnach - Arugula - Avocado - Banana - Melon or beetroot (beetroot takes a bit of getting used to, stay away early) - Water/ice to help blend up spinnach/arugula first and cool it down. Hope that helps. I'm on AIM if you feel like chatting. Got a few questions for you too but cant think of any right now, i'll ask you on AIM sometime ^^ - David oh and this seems pretty awesome dude, happy for u and impressed u managed to cut meats like that, i would definitely be interested in hearing how u r running your diet as i myself have been in a routine of dieting/exercising for last few months & have always thought of going vegetarian but haven't had the courage/discipline to do it.

Hey dude ima let you finish. j/k

Wrote a huge post to reply to people who PM'd me and you, its here:
http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=808713

Didnt really want to derail the mini mez well thread!

the PLZ is making its move in eventual world domination

On October 17 2009 15:50 MezmerizePLZ wrote: oh also crownroyal doomer made a nice post regaurding what you said http://doomer.liquidpoker.net/ its in the spoiler

Thanks for linking to that, it was a really good read.

Thanks for the reply mez, really cool thread/idea!

I have some more questions for you.

- How much HU do you play and how much would you say its improved your game compared to 6max (if at all)?

- When you were growing up what kind of strategical games/competitions did you get involved in? iirc your father was a pretty sick chess player or something, did this have a strong effect on you when it came to poker?

- What kinds of hands do you see people defending with a lot in the BB (vs btn or sb opens) that they really should just fold?

- What kinds of things do you try to do to keep regs on their toes against you?

- In what situations do you like checking back flops? I know this is a complex question, feel free to elaborate on opponents/board texture if you wish.

Thanks!

On October 17 2009 18:33 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2009 15:50 MezmerizePLZ wrote: oh also crownroyal doomer made a nice post regaurding what you said http://doomer.liquidpoker.net/ its in the spoiler Thanks for linking to that, it was a really good read.

Indeed.

On October 17 2009 18:33 concrescence wrote: Thanks for the reply mez, really cool thread/idea! I have some more questions for you. - How much HU do you play and how much would you say its improved your game compared to 6max (if at all)? - When you were growing up what kind of strategical games/competitions did you get involved in? iirc your father was a pretty sick chess player or something, did this have a strong effect on you when it came to poker? - What kinds of hands do you see people defending with a lot in the BB (vs btn or sb opens) that they really should just fold? - What kinds of things do you try to do to keep regs on their toes against you? - In what situations do you like checking back flops? I know this is a complex question, feel free to elaborate on opponents/board texture if you wish. Thanks!

I don't really play very much headsup because I find it hard to get people to play me generally. I like to start tables and such but rarely do i get a reg to multi-table me for any prolonged period of time. I think it helps my 6max game some just because situations are less standard so its more outside the box thinking that is always good to consider whenever making decisions.

I used to play chess yea, my dad was/is very good at it and he taught me. I won a few chess tournaments when I was younger but never really pursued it. My dad won the colorado chess open when he was 16 or something? so its sorta in my blood to excel at these strategy games. I think learning chess definitely helped me in thinking about poker. I also played backgammon a little and was immersed in starcraft before poker which I think helped a lot aswell

I think people probably don't defend their blinds enough really.. I'd say people should probably be playing more hands OOP than they are in general. a lot of people have really high 3b frequencies from the blinds and really low coldcall %s

I like to mix in over-bets in various situations on the turn/river to mess with regs on occasion. Not really gonna go into detail about this but its important to be able to think outside the box when playing good players, they've seen all the normal stuff and its nice to get them out of their comfort zone and into situations where they could possibly make large mistakes. Considering all your options in general is very good no matter who you're playing.

About checking back flops I could probably go on for a long time about this and really its very player dependent. You basically have to take into account
-Free card risk (no reason to give a free card to beat you if your opponent would fold now)
-Barrelability (will you pick up many good turns to 2/3 barrel on if betting?)
-Can you stand a check-raise? is your opponent likely to check-raise or check-call if they continue?
-How often delayed c-bet will work
-How often they call with worse
-Your outs when called
-How often your opponent folds (do they fold any better hands/call with any worse hands?)
-Will your oppoents bluff into you if you check back? will he respect a turn raise?
umm i could probably go on forever im really tired this mighta not been the best thing. let me formulate an example

$5/10 game, folds to you on the button and you open to $30 vs 2 competent regulars w/ XX, the big blind is the only caller.
Flop J64hh

You expect his range to include 22-AA (TT+ heavily discounted since he will 3bet those 90%), AJ, KQ KJ AT maybe some weaker broadway hands and some suited connectors and suited aces. His range is going to be inherently tighter than yours preflop.

You hold KQo. This would be a clear c-bet. he will fold some hands that have you beat, (like Ax that missed, maybe KQ), he will fold some hands that have outs against you (random suited connectors like 98 or 9T), you will have 6 outs to improve generally vs hands he check-calls (he will call with most of his pairs on the flop and you have 6 outs vs most of them), you pick up good cards to barrel on often (T, A, 9, certain hearts if you have a heart in your hand aswell) which will put his pocket pairs in a tough spot. Yes, sometimes you get bluff-raised off your 6 outs but its worth the risk.

OK that was very very basic

say you hold 54dd. this is a much-less clear c-bet and I would likely check back. He will fold no hands that you beat (all pairs better than 4x are certainly calling flop) he WILL fold hands that have a lot of equity vs you (KQ AT 98 etc whatever) I don't think this justifys the c-bet. You don't pick up many great barreling cards. basically its worth taking the risk of being outdrawn with the 54 here instead of putting money in behind with not great barreling opportunities. i would maybe bet this if i had a BDFD for which i could barrel the turn or something of that sort. backdoor draws become very important when deciding whether or not to c-bet sometimes (sorta said by barreling opportunities).

say you have 98o here, i would likely just give-up. I could go through all the reasons but dont really feel like it.
I'd be likely to bet a hand like QT or hands that can easily pick up draws to barrel with or have good equity already or hands that can pick up bdfds, i'd likely giveup with hands that have no potential, and i'd likely check back hands strong enough to call 2 barrels on occasion vs certain players aswell, especially if my hand doesn't have to worry about many cards. J5 with a bdfd would be a good example of something i might check back, or QJ maybe. vs opponents that check-raise often compared to check-calling often you have to alter your ranges for that aswell. theres just alot of things that go into making this decision and its not a very simple one at all necessarily

come to cali

and lets plan that ski trip

alright i think i'm done answering Q's for now

On October 17 2009 19:25 MezmerizePLZ wrote: alright i think i'm done answering Q's for now

thanks <3

yo clayton.

+1 on how poker affects your relationships.

it's even harder when you come to the realization that people who you used to be close with don't really understand your life anymore.

like the disciplined approach you're taking, best of luck. i will pwn you at 5/10 you overagg choad

200k swing? shit man, least you won that $215k at monte carlo.

on another note, i'm interested in some coaching for sure.

have you ever thought about going back to vvvq

Clay you are one of the smartest poker players I have ever met and if you wont have huge sucess in poker I dont know who will.(not that you havent already) Better tilt control and dicipline will come in time im sure. I would so snapcall your offer about coaching if I didnt have school and other stuff to deal with.