James+Bosh+Wade

Miami, go kill the Lakers

just saw on espn, wonder how they'll coexist together. going to be exciting nonetheless

Which team?

this is going to be exciting but I still think the bulls and lakers are better teams right now.

once the heat get a point guard and center I'll be more excited.

bulls are not better

despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college

On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college

lol

but anyway yea, plz make sure kobe never wins another one.

<3 wade
</3 lebron
--- bosh

for what its worth i think they'll be fine. finding a decent point guard will be somewhat problematic but chalmers can still dribble and carlos arroyas still makes me lawl. look for james to do more passing. but what's sick is that they have 3 players who can all iso and take over a game/get a shot. that's pretty much what play off basketball is...hang in there till the final 2 minutes and have your star take over and go to victory. considering miami has 3...

and wade and james jumping/running every fast break + defense against the fast break... they are going to block so many shots

w/e wake me up when bball starts. i'm so fucking glad for wcup. i hate this fucking purgatory period where there is only fucking baseball

LeQueer truly is a vacuous star, what a dumb and ball-less decision. Grow a pair you pansy instead of doubting your talents and running away to play on Wade's team. What kind of a legacy is this, what kind of a basketball era are we in?

Don't know why he decided to play robin to wade's batman. I guess he really does just want to win.

expect james to be top 5 in assists this year, he somehow got 8 apg with the cavs this year, w/ this new team he may be able to get 11+ (possibly even lead the NBA in assists?)

On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college

derrick rose is 21, a lot of college kids who are entering are actually older than him.

Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8
2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .4 20.8

Once he develops 33% 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable. Do you watch basketball?

I think next offseason has some nice storylines too. Chris Paul can opt out of his 4th year and Lebron's company represents him. Plus he thinks the hornets suck and need to make changes.

The NBA eastern playoffs next year are going to fucking rock

I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win.

In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

it's just sports hate man.

but you make goot points.

but anyway yea cp3 hates it in new orleans; i would say there would be 0 chance he is resigning there but i never thought joe johnson would ever sign up in atl either so toss it up.

also shame lebron/melo/lee/cp3 couldnt hook it up in ny. that woulda been sick imo all playing for d'antoni

On July 08 2010 20:51 royalsu wrote: this is going to be exciting but I still think the bulls and lakers are better teams right now. once the heat get a point guard and center I'll be more excited.

You mean the Bulls would have been better if they got Lebron right? They were 500 last year and all they added was Boozer. Miami had a better record and they added Bosh and Lebron.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

I think the people against it would argue that Magic & Bird wanted to go head-to-head against each other and relished the opportunity to challenge themselves against the games best. These three guys deciding to gang up together and sign bargain contracts for one team should piss off the fans of every other team in the league.

It's like Walmart vs. Mom & Pop shops.

Walmart (Miami Heat) gets to have the best product (3 Star Players at a Bargain Price) vs. Mom & Pop (Everybody else except maybe the Lakers) pays top dollar to their talent and field teams that maybe don't have a hope in hell of being competitive vs. this monopoly of stars.

I don't watch a lot of basketball so I don't care that much. Casual fans love to cheer for a traveling all-star team like the new Heat because it's a cool thing to see. However lets say the top six forwards and top four D-Men in hockey decided all to sign on the same team and for bargain prices. In the salary cap era you could pretty much give that team the championship every year because they would be so hard to beat. That would probably piss the fans of every other team off - it would certainly piss me off. It just makes the sport less fun when one team finds a way to get an unfair edge in competition.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

This times 1 million. People bitch about how the Yankess buy teams which is understandable but this is the right way to do it taking a pay cut. ( Fwiw I love the Yankees).

The thing to when it comes down to it some people just don't understand at the end of the day he is a person just like all of us. People can bitch what he did was wrong, the owner of the Cavs went a little below the belt but Lebron has to do what is best for him. With all the moves other teams made it did not seems like the Cavs made as much as they should have, he gave them seven years which is a fair shot. I wished he would have stayed with the Cavs just because it makes a good story but welcome to Miami ..


Does anyone know if Beasly is gone now in a sign and trade? (Edit He just got traded to Minnestota) Mario Chalmers is pretty good but I suspect they will get some veterans to come and play. Lakers are still probably the best at this moment assuming they stay healthy, they are just to tall/good for most teams.

Start of the season though I think it's the Heat with just a few additions and these guys are all really young and in their prime.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

Cleveland can offer $30 million more in a contract but he has to play 6 years instead of 5 with the heat. A 6th year with the heat would give him another $20+ million so he's losing probably less than $10 million in salary by not signing with the Cavs. When you include all the variables, such as his salary being only a small % of his income, Florida has no state income tax, the added bonsues/spnonsorships for winning a championship, etc. You can't calculate how much he is getting by how big his contract is.

In short, Lebron is going to be making HUNDREDS of millions over the next 5 years regardless of who he plays with, Taking a pay cut so his team makes the salary cap isn't a huge deal. The question is, when he is 60 years old and looking back on his career does he want $900 million in assets and 0 rings or $800 million in assets and 5 rings?

I think its interesting that he's joining wades team. He is going to be #2 guy. However many titles he'll have in his career wade will have 1 more.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

Lebron is a fucking pussy. You dont join the best, you beat them. Like someone said earlier, Koby would never ever ever even consider joining forces with these guys in the manner they did. Fuck Lebron along with Wade Bosh and throw Riley in the pot also.

who the fack is koby

On July 08 2010 22:53 blackjacki2 wrote: In short, Lebron is going to be making HUNDREDS of millions over the next 5 years regardless of who he plays with, Taking a pay cut so his team makes the salary cap isn't a huge deal. The question is, when he is 60 years old and looking back on his career does he want $900 million in assets and 0 rings or $800 million in assets and 5 rings?

I totally agree with this these guys are all insanely rich from endorsements anyway whats the difference between a few million dollars? Yet despite this how often do you see top guys take less money? It virtually never happens largely out of ego everybody wants to be the top guy and make the most money so for lebron to do this even tho it wont effect his lifestyle at all I appreciate him putting his ego aside.

Karl Malone, Gary Payton. Pistons > Lakers.

Its a change from the AI-me first era though. Probably a more boring sport to watch though.

On July 08 2010 22:58 albonycee wrote: Lebron is a fucking pussy. You dont join the best, you beat them. Like someone said earlier, Koby would never ever ever even consider joining forces with these guys in the manner they did. Fuck Lebron along with Wade Bosh and throw Riley in the pot also.

This is retarded. Lebron played for 7 years for Cleveland with virtually no talent around him and single handedly carried them to 60 wins and to the finals one year. He tried to make it work there and they couldnt get shit in there to help him actually win. No matter how great of a player you are you have to have help to win you cant do it alone.

And the kobe comment is retarded after shaq left and kobe wasnt winning at all he was threatening to leave LA and demanding a trade if they couldnt bring someone in to help him. They brought in pau and everyone was happy again but you think if they had come to kobe and said hey we can trade and get wade in here he woulda been like nah fuck that wade is too good.

Its just a total joke people are burning lebron for leaving and then saying shit like look at kobe he didnt have to leave la yet he was incredibly close to leaving when the lakers went through a downswing for a couple years and only stayed because they got him help and they started winning.

im not faulting him for leaving Cleveland, it was obvious he was not in a winning environment, im faulting him for going to the heat out of all the teams in contention.
a player of his caliber should have the balls to take a team on his shoulders and be the centerpiece of a franchise. lebron neither has the balls nor wants the responsibility. as a result he seals once and for all the whos better Kobe or Lebron talk.
also my point about Kobe is he would never join another team in the fashion Lebron just did, i never claimed he would never accept a better player on HIS team. u cant deny there is a distinction between the two.

ur argument is mindnumbing albonycee

On July 08 2010 22:56 Maynard! wrote: I think its interesting that he's joining wades team. He is going to be #2 guy. However many titles he'll have in his career wade will have 1 more.

I'm preety sure it's unanomous that james is the best player on that team. Wade is prob gonna be team captain or w/e for politics sake similar to Peirce remaning captain of the Celtics, even though garnett was clearly the best player.

On that note, I still think Lakers are very strong, also boston added Jermain O-neil, a lot of super stacked teams next year. Also I think people are gonna realize how over rated amare stodomire is once he stops playing w/ nash

On July 08 2010 23:25 albonycee wrote: im not faulting him for leaving Cleveland, it was obvious he was not in a winning environment, im faulting him for going to the heat out of all the teams in contention. a player of his caliber should have the balls to take a team on his shoulders and be the centerpiece of a franchise. lebron neither has the balls nor wants the responsibility. as a result he seals once and for all the whos better Kobe or Lebron talk. also my point about Kobe is he would never join another team in the fashion Lebron just did, i never claimed he would never accept a better player on HIS team. u cant deny there is a distinction between the two.

Lol how can you even pretend to know what Kobe would do in the same situation?

the fact that Kobe has never put himself in this kind of situation is an indicator of his intentions imo.

whatever, Lebron is a coward thats all im saying.

On July 08 2010 23:25 albonycee wrote: im not faulting him for leaving Cleveland, it was obvious he was not in a winning environment, im faulting him for going to the heat out of all the teams in contention. a player of his caliber should have the balls to take a team on his shoulders and be the centerpiece of a franchise. lebron neither has the balls nor wants the responsibility. as a result he seals once and for all the whos better Kobe or Lebron talk. also my point about Kobe is he would never join another team in the fashion Lebron just did, i never claimed he would never accept a better player on HIS team. u cant deny there is a distinction between the two.

umm when you play for the lakers you are set for life.. it's like playing for the Yankess. They attract the best talent, it's the place to be... everyone wants to play there. No1 gives a shit about Cleveland, they had 7 years to do something w/ James, he carried them to 60 win seasons by himself, but he hasn't been able to carry them to a by himself. Kobe is just super lucky that he plays for the Lakers.. if James had the same oppurtunity that Kobe has (playing w/ shaq, now gasol) he would have a few rings himself

I don't necessarily agree with everything that albonycee but I did get similar vibes from watching Lebron's interview. I wouldn't say that he's a coward, but he made it very very very clear that the deciding factor in choosing Miami was that it would allow him to win ASAP and to keep winning.

I can't fault him for this since on paper for sure it looks like Miami with that all-star lineup is the most +EV for taking the championship. In order to attain immediate and more secure success, Lebron is trading the spotlight for a more shared glory, possibly even a lesser/second-place glory to Wade. I can't blame him for this... but you gotta admit that it is just not as... inspiring.

I guess, personally, I would've admired him a bit more if he had shown the balls and the cockiness/confidence to go to a team like the Knicks or Chicago - this would have been tantamount to saying that I CAN win championships, all I need is a good supporting cast, but this is MY legacy. Others may value his prioritizing of team work and shared glory and I respect that... but you know...

Who is the iconic hero of basketball? MJ. When you think of the Bulls, though you can't deny that Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Rodman, Longley, Kerr all were CRUCIAL elements, it was ultimately MJ's team. He was the special ingredient, the superstar, and the dynasty of 2 3-peats will forever go down as HIS legacy to Chicago. It makes for the truly glorious, dramatic moments in sports, like "They still have to go through Chicago" and the "flu game".... none of which would truly mean shit if Jordan had 2 other superstars covering for him on his down/off days.

Lebron is stepping away from that. He is saying I want to win so much and so assuredly that I will give up the mantle and the chance to be known as the greatest of all time just to ensure that I have the actual rings on my finger. Sure, it's the smart play. It's admirable within its own respective principles. But it's not the stuff that legends are made of.

I guess I'm just ultimately a romanticist when it comes to sports. When I saw Lebron with the Cavs, driving them to victory after victory, to the playoffs through sheer talent and willpower... I was wow'd. I thought that this guy has the talent and the drive to be even greater than Jordan, if only he had the right supporting cast. And now that he is going completely in the opposite direction, almost lowering himself and taking a shared leadership role with two other players just to hedge his bets for the championships... I feel like it's a waste.

However many he wins in Miami, Wade will always have 1 more. However much glory he wins in Miami, he will always (out of respect and room for the other two's egos) have to share the glory. No matter how amazingly well he plays, he will just be one among three. And there's something selfless about that... but it doesn't stir my heart like it wants to be stirred.

On July 09 2010 01:22 albonycee wrote: the fact that Kobe has never put himself in this kind of situation is an indicator of his intentions imo. whatever, Lebron is a coward thats all im saying.

Why would Kobe put himself in a position to leave a team that has given him 5 rings?

On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college

quit being a hater

On July 08 2010 21:20 royalsu wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college derrick rose is 21, a lot of college kids who are entering are actually older than him. Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG 2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8 2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .4 20.8 Once he develops 33% 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable. Do you watch basketball?

First of all, him being 21 has nothing to do with anything as I was responding to a post stating that the bulls are CURRENTLY better than the heat.

Second of all, you post only stats and ask me if I watch basketball? I've watched a bunch of bulls games the past 2 seasons on leaguepass, and his defense is atrocious. It has not improved AT ALL since his first games as a rookie. That's half the game right there. If he puts up 20 points but gives up 20 to "lesser" guards, what does that make him?

His jumpshot is still very weak, never mind a 3 point shot. Those stats are extremely mediocre for someone who dominates the ball as much as Lebron or CP3.

Sure, most of this can be blamed on his horrible coach, but the fact remains that he has not developed nearly as much as he should have.

ROFL at the fail in this thread. bulls better then heat......? what bro. also lebron is the best player in the nba by a pretty decent margin. also lol at the kobe would never do something like that. if he wasnt getting the talent put around him he would just demand a trade.

Kelly Dwyer states it more eloquently:

Derrick Rose(notes), I'm sorry, did not develop under Vinny Del Negro, as some have reported. There is nothing in Rose's jump from Memphis to his first season to his second that cannot be explained by the expected growth of a sparkling talent like Derrick. Not the bogus All-Star berth, not the nonsense perpetuated by Ric Bucher. The guy still doesn't play a lick of defense, his jump shot is about the same as it was during his rookie year, and he still isn't a natural or confident passer.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball...y-have-settled-on-Vinn?urn=nba,254301

Sorry for derailing the thread but when someone states that the bulls are better than the new heat and I reply with wtf and suddenly people act like I'm the crazy one...

i've lived in chicago my whole life and even my hometown bias can't consider the bulls > heat right now. bulls are like 4-5th best team in the east maybe?

On July 09 2010 03:12 rS.Wisdom[9] wrote: i've lived in chicago my whole life and even my hometown bias can't consider the bulls > heat right now. bulls are like 4-5th best team in the east maybe?

heat
magic
then hawks celtics and bulls in not sure what order. lot of variance there i think.

as a basketball fan i was really hoping lebron would go to NY, amare/lebron vs bosh/wade rivalry for 7 years sounded awesome.

the hate for lebron is absolutely retarded though. the guy spent 7 years in cleveland trying to win a championship for them while they constantly brought in overpaid, overrated, old duds to be stars along with him. jamison, hughes, williams, shaq...thats just embarassing. some franchises are just like that, they aren't able to build around a superstar...the example of kevin garnett is perfect, the guy spent 9 years STRAIGHT averaging 20ppg/10apg yet they couldn't sniff a championship, he barely left in time to join a good thing in boston and finally got a ring...a guy of his talent could have won many rings but he stuck it out too long with minnesota. im sure everyone would agree garnett leaving minnesota for boston was the best thing he ever did, lebron is just doing the smart thing at the best possible time much earlier than garnett. lebron isn't ruining his legacy doing this, he's building one. people saying kobe would never play robin for someone else just to win a ring probably need to remember that for the majority of his rings he DID play robin, shaq was the monster dominating the league back then.

i think lebron/wade/bosh should actually work out very well. both lebron and wade are excellent defenders and passers so i think you avoid a lot of the difficulties when teaming up ball hogging superstars (AI with melo comes to mind). their pick & rolls should be pretty much unstoppable, they have the athleticism to score a ton on fast breaks, and they should have a rock solid defense. they really just need a defensive minded hustling 3point shooting pg to round out their lineup...someone like dragic/farmar comes to mind

plz not farmar keanu, id say someone like riddenaur or however u spell that from the bucks would be perfect, just give him mcdonalds every day for a year and he'd be content with the heat

meh dragic is a better example anyway

GO T-WOLVES

:3

I think the bulls were better yesterday because they had a great deep team (now that mike miller has signed I'm not so sure anymore). They were the number one rebounding team in the league last year and they just added someone who averages 11 rebounds a game in boozer. No one talks about boozer because he plays out of the spotlight in Utah but he's going to score 20+ points and finally give derrick rose someone he can pick and roll with and dominate in the low post.

Rose is going into his 3rd year as a former no.1 overall pick and rookie of the year. Do you really think he's peaked? I really don't give a crap about that link you posted by some reporter. Lebron James himself said that Rose is a great great player and one of the top 3 point guards in the game. Rose is shooting 48% from the field and that link you posted says he hasn't improved his jump shot? Steve Nash, who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, took 7 years before he shot better than Rose in his rookie year.

lebron on derrick rose @ 1:45. Derrick speaks about the injuries on his team and the fact that they didn't have a "legitimate team" last year:

On July 09 2010 09:29 royalsu wrote: I think the bulls were better yesterday because they had a great deep team (now that mike miller has signed I'm not so sure anymore). They were the number one rebounding team in the league last year and they just added someone who averages 11 rebounds a game in boozer. No one talks about boozer because he plays out of the spotlight in Utah but he's going to score 20+ points and finally give derrick rose someone he can pick and roll with and dominate in the low post. Rose is going into his 3rd year as a former no.1 overall pick and rookie of the year. Do you really think he's peaked? I really don't give a crap about that link you posted by some reporter. Lebron James himself said that Rose is a great great player and one of the top 3 point guards in the game. Rose is shooting 48% from the field and that link you posted says he hasn't improved his jump shot? Steve Nash, who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, took 7 years before he shot better than Rose in his rookie year.

rofl derrick rose is not a top 3 point guard.


Nash
Paul
Kidd
D.Will
Rondo

also the bulls do not seem deep at all.

You have Kidd and Rondo before Rose?
What would the Mavs and Celtics do with Rose instead of their PGs is a good question to ask in this situation.

lol nash

w/ the whole kobe lebron argument going on, does no one remember a few years ago when the lakers sucked and kobe spent all day bitching about how he wanted to be traded to a good team cuz he couldn't stand playing on a bad team. If kobe was on a shit team he'd probably do the same as lebron. Also fakeshavers list of top 5 point guards is correct. Rose will be on the list in a couple years when Nash's defensive liability overshadows his offense and Jason Kidd retires.

On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it.

+1


I say fuck the haters. Lebron should look after himself.


We're going to see some great basketball this year. I'll finally tune in for the regular season.

On July 08 2010 22:58 albonycee wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it. Lebron is a fucking pussy. You dont join the best, you beat them. Like someone said earlier, Koby would never ever ever even consider joining forces with these guys in the manner they did. Fuck Lebron along with Wade Bosh and throw Riley in the pot also.

Shaq left Magic to go to the Lakers and started his dynasty there.


That was the smart move to make.


The IDIOT move to make is to stay in a losing city trying to hold the entire thing yourself.

so not to get off-topic but is shaq going to stay in cleveland or retire or what? he said before that he wanted to play 3 more years but i doubt he wants to play for anyone who's not an immediate contender.

On July 09 2010 06:07 KeanuReaver wrote: as a basketball fan i was really hoping lebron would go to NY, amare/lebron vs bosh/wade rivalry for 7 years sounded awesome. the hate for lebron is absolutely retarded though. the guy spent 7 years in cleveland trying to win a championship for them while they constantly brought in overpaid, overrated, old duds to be stars along with him. jamison, hughes, williams, shaq...thats just embarassing. some franchises are just like that, they aren't able to build around a superstar...the example of kevin garnett is perfect, the guy spent 9 years STRAIGHT averaging 20ppg/10apg yet they couldn't sniff a championship, he barely left in time to join a good thing in boston and finally got a ring...a guy of his talent could have won many rings but he stuck it out too long with minnesota. im sure everyone would agree garnett leaving minnesota for boston was the best thing he ever did, lebron is just doing the smart thing at the best possible time much earlier than garnett. lebron isn't ruining his legacy doing this, he's building one. people saying kobe would never play robin for someone else just to win a ring probably need to remember that for the majority of his rings he DID play robin, shaq was the monster dominating the league back then. i think lebron/wade/bosh should actually work out very well. both lebron and wade are excellent defenders and passers so i think you avoid a lot of the difficulties when teaming up ball hogging superstars (AI with melo comes to mind). their pick & rolls should be pretty much unstoppable, they have the athleticism to score a ton on fast breaks, and they should have a rock solid defense. they really just need a defensive minded hustling 3point shooting pg to round out their lineup...someone like dragic/farmar comes to mind

+1.


I'm glad it took a poker forum to realize this. We realize what the fuck +EV means.


So much unnecessary hate for Lebron.


Man is on a mission. If he has a choice to play with winners instead of losers, why not?


Everyone expects him to pull the entire thing himself in Cleveland and win a championship for them. It takes more than 1 player to win.

On July 08 2010 22:21 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2010 21:56 Mig wrote: I dont understand all the hate lebron is getting whatsoever. Lebron took 30 million less to sign with the heat instead of the cavs. And now he has to lower his ego and share the spotlight with wade/bosh. He did all of this to win. In todays game everyone always bitches about nba players only caring about money and not trying hard enough to win being unselfish etc. Then lebron takes less to form a monster team and people are giving him shit over it. However lets say the top six forwards and top four D-Men in hockey decided all to sign on the same team and for bargain prices. In the salary cap era you could pretty much give that team the championship every year because they would be so hard to beat. That would probably piss the fans of every other team off - it would certainly piss me off. It just makes the sport less fun when one team finds a way to get an unfair edge in competition.

Kind of like these Colorado/Detroit rosters? (2/3 won championships)
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0006902004.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000342002.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0006902001.html

On July 09 2010 09:29 royalsu wrote: I think the bulls were better yesterday because they had a great deep team (now that mike miller has signed I'm not so sure anymore). They were the number one rebounding team in the league last year and they just added someone who averages 11 rebounds a game in boozer. No one talks about boozer because he plays out of the spotlight in Utah but he's going to score 20+ points and finally give derrick rose someone he can pick and roll with and dominate in the low post. Rose is going into his 3rd year as a former no.1 overall pick and rookie of the year. Do you really think he's peaked? I really don't give a crap about that link you posted by some reporter. Lebron James himself said that Rose is a great great player and one of the top 3 point guards in the game. Rose is shooting 48% from the field and that link you posted says he hasn't improved his jump shot? Steve Nash, who is one of the greatest shooters of all time, took 7 years before he shot better than Rose in his rookie year.

Gee, the heat signed Mike Miller and now suddenly they're better? A team with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh, and it's Mike Miller that put them over the top? What, you're argument is that at the time of the post, the heat only had 4 total players under contract, so the bulls were the better team because they can just play 5 on 4? You didn't know the heat were actually going to sign more players? Really? They were going to enter into next season with 4 players playing 4v5 for 48mpg each?

Let me put it this way for you. Boozer went from a Utah team with Dwill, Okur, and one of the top tier coaches in the league, to a Chicago team with Rose, Noah, and a rookie coach. Now there's no way anyone with a right mind can argue that Rose > Dwill, especially if you claim to watch basketball. And Noah and Okur are pretty close, but hard to compare because they play different styles. Plus the Utah team was a lot deeper than this Chicago team. Plus they actually defended.

So I think it's pretty clear that Boozer's old team is better than Boozer's new team (again, remember we're talking about NOW, not in a few years after Chi is able to trade Deng/develop etc). How did Boozer's old team do? They beat an imploding coachless nuggets team in 6, and then got swept by the lakers. And that team is better than the current Chicago team, who is supposedly better than the current heat team? Please.

I know you can't always make on-paper comparisons like this, but I'm trying to show that the bulls aren't even close to being in the same league as the heat, let alone slightly better...

EDIT: Also, please learn to read. I never said anywhere that Rose has peaked. Rather, I have consistently stated that that's not the POINT, because you said the bulls are better than the heat NOW.

Rose and Nash plays two completely different styles. Rose attacks the basket with 20 seconds on the shot clock, while Nash mainly runs the offense, while taking last second bail-out shots for his team. So no shit Rose is expected to have a better FG%. Shaq shoots 58% for his career, does he have a good jump shot?

I agree w/ Pacifist pretty much 100% except I think there is a very slight chance that the Heat this year will have such a shitty bench the bulls will be almost as good, maybe will take the heat 5 or 6 games to beat them in a playoff series rather then sweeping the bulls. But by the 2011-2012 season the heat will be far and away the best in the east.

I was gonna post about how you all are haters, but then I saw Brendan Shanahan on that wings roster posted above and thought "that fucking coward" for leaving the whalers in 96. So now I won't say anything

On July 09 2010 15:14 Bigbobm wrote: I was gonna post about how you all are haters, but then I saw Brendan Shanahan on that wings roster posted above and thought "that fucking coward" for leaving the whalers in 96. So now I won't say anything

loooool

On July 09 2010 15:10 palak wrote: I agree w/ Pacifist pretty much 100% except I think there is a very slight chance that the Heat this year will have such a shitty bench the bulls will be almost as good, maybe will take the heat 5 or 6 games to beat them in a playoff series rather then sweeping the bulls. But by the 2011-2012 season the heat will be far and away the best in the east.

I don't deny that there's a slight chance that the heat will suck this year, but that doesn't make royalsu's statement that the bulls are currently better than the heat not ludicrous.

I also don't deny that my AA might lose to 27o AIPF, but does this mean I agree with someone's statement that 27o is a better starting hand than AA?

i lost respect for james with this move. he is quite young, with all the hype that's been built around him since his start in the NBA ( future jordan bs)
and all the sneaker commercials, rap lyrics about his "greatness", then he pulls a karl malone like in his 20's
if he went to NY with amare it would be totally different and definitely not get the hate he's been getting now. he'll be in a an equally good team but he'll still have to prove shit and not try to freeroll a shot at a ring

lol free roll a shot at the ring.

still gotta win first wtf.

although the chance of winning is much higher it's still not a "freeroll"

Leave the nigga to do his thang in peace yo.

He's kind of screwed either way. His "greatness" is tarnished if he doesn't win a ring and his "greatness" is tarnished if he team hops in order to win a ring.

and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing.
i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more.

On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more.

even if you think this makes lebron a "coward" (lol), you haven't really explained why you think that makes him a worse basketball player.

i think nearly everyone who knows basketball considers james to be currently a better player than bryant, i'm not sure if he's better than bryant was in like '02-'04, i think yes but it's probably debatable.

i agree you can't compare him to jordan yet but are people even doing that? i mean there's lots of players who've been better than bryant and worse than jordan.

On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more.

ROFL. laker homer. i guess to the untrained eye when u see a guy playing with pau gasol hes gonna look better then a guy playing with mo williams. but yea as bigredhoss said anyone who knows nba, knows lebron is the clear best player in league. kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head

nah kobe is top 3, lebron kobe wade in that order i think

how do we base who's the best player then? season wins? end results/rings? stats? is there some hidden criteria lebron stalwarts use? enlighten us please. it's so easy to hate on kobe and he does have his faults but cmon, even michael jordan says kobe reminds him of himself.

lol Derrick rose is a beast, And defnitely one of the best pgs in the league right now. no way do you have kidd over him lol and nash hmm I guess thats semi close but I still would give rose the edge nowadays. Rondo/Paull/Will are better though but he will be up there soon

As a fan I'm quite interested in the heat now I think its going to be super fun year for NBA.As for the hate I think a lot of it is a bit is extreme but I definitely understand it. Yea he played 7 years and they didnt win it but honestly I think they shoulda just tried harder. Its not like they couldnt win and they sucked for 7 years they had best record in the league for 2 straight years they just keep choking and not getting it done when it matters in the playoffs. I think lebron did prove with that signing that he is no jordan or bird or magic or any "King". But at the end of the day he did what was best for him and noone can fault him for that. But I do agree that he gave up to join some great players rather than make his teammates better.

The one shitty thing about this whole thing imo is the fucking 9pm show he put on. I thought for sure he was staying with the cavs after he said he was having a show cause who the fuck would make a show to DUMP there hometown. He should have definitely did it another way imo.

On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: Show nested quote + On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more. ROFL. laker homer. i guess to the untrained eye when u see a guy playing with pau gasol hes gonna look better then a guy playing with mo williams. but yea as bigredhoss said anyone who knows nba, knows lebron is the clear best player in league. kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head

I haaaaaaaate Kobe. But I still think hes the best player in the league. Absolutely nobody is more clutch, and if you saw the series vs Phoenix this year you'd know what I mean. He hits impossible shots in double coverage and theres just nothing the other team can do. I love Lebron, and he's the one guy that could be considered better than Kobe, but other than that? Kobe is minimum top 2. Wade and Durant don't come close.

On July 10 2010 03:11 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more. . i agree you can't compare him to jordan yet but are people even doing that?.

There is no yet anymore after him going to the heat. if he goes there and wins 8 rings everyone will just expect them to.

edit- I left out the other part but he is not better then kobe either.

On July 09 2010 15:14 Bigbobm wrote: I was gonna post about how you all are haters, but then I saw Brendan Shanahan on that wings roster posted above and thought "that fucking coward" for leaving the whalers in 96. So now I won't say anything

lol fucking hypocritical hartford fans!

On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head

Kobe just showed the world why he is currently the #1 player.


And this has a lot more to do than PPG / APG.


His leadership skills and his ability to make his teammates respond / rally in the most clutch moments of the game are intangibles you cannot measure.

His ability to also PERFORM in the PLAYOFFS is probably his most important asset. He never disappears in any important game. Can't say the same for the other top players.


All that matters in the end are championships.

this thread supetilts me. Kobe is not even top 5 ????
also who are these people with knowledge about the nba that think that Lebron is better than Kobe ?

On July 10 2010 10:16 Tien wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head Kobe just showed the world why he is currently the #1 player. And this has a lot more to do than PPG / APG. His leadership skills and his ability to make his teammates respond / rally in the most clutch moments of the game are intangibles you cannot measure. His ability to also PERFORM in the PLAYOFFS is probably his most important asset. He never disappears in any important game. Can't say the same for the other top players.

i'm not saying leadership intangibles and all that aren't important, but you have to look at it in perspective. lebron made an otherwise mediocre cavs team one of the top 3 teams in the east. kobe made a stacked team do what a stacked team is supposed to do. if you replaced kobe with wade or james the lakers would have the same number of championships this decade, if you put kobe in cleveland he would never win another ring in a million years. the other guys on the court do matter.

if you watch the games lebron clearly elevates his teammates more than kobe does with his. kobe has shown to be a better closer though i will grant you that.

All that matters in the end are championships.

On July 10 2010 10:25 albonycee wrote: this thread supetilts me. Kobe is not even top 5 ???? also who are these people with knowledge about the nba that think that Lebron is better than Kobe ?

kobe is definitely top 5 out of current players, i agree with keanureaver's list of 1.james 2.bryant 3.wade, although 2/3 are much closer than 1/2 imo, and wade would probably be #2 if he was 100% healthy for a full season.

as for who the people are who say lebron > kobe, i can't remember specific quotes atm, but i can't recall a current/former nba player saying kobe is better than lebron in the last couple years. as far as big-name people go, charles barkley and jerry west have both said lebron has surpassed kobe off the top of my head, i know there's more. plus like any serious sports-bettor you talk to would take lebron over kobe in a heartbeat.

here's a video of west, who was instrumental in bringing kobe to the lakers.

so you're posting a video of lebron saying kobe is better than him? really? it's his nature to be self-deprecating in this kind of setting lol...

video of jordan was like in front of a bunch of 3rd graders, it looks like he was probably making a speech about team being more important than individuals and using kobe w/his championships as some kind of example, judging by the kids' reaction it was probably a basketball camp held somewhere in cali.

i mean i'm not interested in trading youtube searches or whatever, but if i was, those are really really weak -_-

On July 10 2010 09:56 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: lol Derrick rose is a beast, And defnitely one of the best pgs in the league right now. no way do you have kidd over him lol and nash hmm I guess thats semi close but I still would give rose the edge nowadays. Rondo/Paull/Will are better though but he will be up there soon As a fan I'm quite interested in the heat now I think its going to be super fun year for NBA.As for the hate I think a lot of it is a bit is extreme but I definitely understand it. Yea he played 7 years and they didnt win it but honestly I think they shoulda just tried harder. Its not like they couldnt win and they sucked for 7 years they had best record in the league for 2 straight years they just keep choking and not getting it done when it matters in the playoffs. I think lebron did prove with that signing that he is no jordan or bird or magic or any "King". But at the end of the day he did what was best for him and noone can fault him for that. But I do agree that he gave up to join some great players rather than make his teammates better. The one shitty thing about this whole thing imo is the fucking 9pm show he put on. I thought for sure he was staying with the cavs after he said he was having a show cause who the fuck would make a show to DUMP there hometown. He should have definitely did it another way imo.

I still put Kidd and Nash over Rose any day. Kidd can probably triple double every game if he wanted to, but since he has so many scorers on the Mavs, he just dishes it out for the assists.

However I do agree that his one hour show was pretty gay. If it wasn't for this show, I'm pretty sure LBJ wouldn't be getting the hate he is getting now.

Pacifist my claim wasn't outrageous at the time. If the big 3 had signed max deals that leaves 0$ for anyone else and the rest of the roster would be filled with 800k minimum salary crappy players. So when lebron, wade, bosh rest, their bench would get creamed. Even with boston it was the development of rondo, perkins, big baby (all of their young draft picks) that got them over the top.

Mike Miller is a big fucking deal for this team. So would getting Derek Fisher. But this is only possible because the big 3 took 2 million less each and Beasley's 6 million salary got traded. So yes, I stick to my innocent statement that at the time, the bulls were a better team. And now that they got Korver, they're going to rock.

They got korver?

i thought they got ashton koutcher

On July 10 2010 09:59 Fraser wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote:   On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more. ROFL. laker homer. i guess to the untrained eye when u see a guy playing with pau gasol hes gonna look better then a guy playing with mo williams. but yea as bigredhoss said anyone who knows nba, knows lebron is the clear best player in league. kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head I haaaaaaaate Kobe. But I still think hes the best player in the league. Absolutely nobody is more clutch, and if you saw the series vs Phoenix this year you'd know what I mean. He hits impossible shots in double coverage and theres just nothing the other team can do. I love Lebron, and he's the one guy that could be considered better than Kobe, but other than that? Kobe is minimum top 2. Wade and Durant don't come close.

he is not clutch. he just contantly takes awful shots like you say. that is not a plus. when he has players like pau gasol and lamar odom and bynum on his team. he should be passing out of those awful double coverage shots. and fade away long twos. its just not good basketball. phil jackson gets very mad at him about this stuff. id definately take dwight howard over kobe right now for next year. i think most people also think wade is better then kobe if he is not injured. people who say kobe is clutch are just clueless. have you ever seen end game stats? he is one of the least clutch players in the league. and if you want to go by youtube videos.





do you also remember his multiple airballs that lead to "clutch" game winners by his teamates.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm


lol 56 fga and 1 assist. guy just loves taking the last shot. the same people who say kobe is so clutch. are the same people who lose a couple flips and think theyve lost every flip in their career. you guys just have very selective memory.

lol look at the guarded awful shot with fisher wide open next to him

"OMG LEBRON SIGNED WITH A STACKED TEAM, THIS IS THE END OF NBA BASKETBALL"
lol i give up defending a guy's skills who has lots of rings vs a guy whos been in the league for 7 and doesnt have shit. kinda pointless. lebron just runz bad.

On July 10 2010 17:48 whamm! wrote: "OMG LEBRON SIGNED WITH A STACKED TEAM, THIS IS THE END OF NBA BASKETBALL" lol i give up defending a guy's skills who has lots of rings vs a guy whos been in the league for 7 and doesnt have shit. kinda pointless. lebron just runz bad.

lol so you dont think lebron on the lakers win rings? also insert picture of horry. RANGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ IM RIGHT. lebron ran bad to have the second best player on his team be mo williams(lol) instead of a all star in pau gasol. cant you see how itd be easier for kobe to get rings and not lebron? how can you not see having better players on your team would make it easier to win a championship?

i will also add i hate lebron a lot. i am a celtic fan. but i know he is better then kobe. and its not really close. as funny as u think it is that u have to defend this 5 time champ vs lebron. i find it more annoying.

On July 10 2010 10:16 Tien wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head Kobe just showed the world why he is currently the #1 player. And this has a lot more to do than PPG / APG. His leadership skills and his ability to make his teammates respond / rally in the most clutch moments of the game are intangibles you cannot measure. His ability to also PERFORM in the PLAYOFFS is probably his most important asset. He never disappears in any important game. Can't say the same for the other top players. All that matters in the end are championships.

His ability to perform in the playoffs and never disappear in any important game is his biggest asset? What about last month in game 7 of the FINALS when he shot 6-24 and had 2 assists? Way to perform on the most clutch game of the season. Somehow the Lakers still won, but surely that's all thanks to Kobe.

His leadership skills and ability to rally his team has to be a joke. This is the guy that has been in more feuds than anyone, with his own teammates, Shaq, his coach, the Lakers management. Phil Jackson called him "uncoachable." He got caught on video saying that should ship Bynum's ass out, etc. All marks of a true leader, I'm sure.

lol @ picking 1 game where he performed bad. I honestly dont think if lebron was a laker that he would have won the championship the last 2 years.(he prolly would have with shaq though:D) I like lebron but he dissapears in the 4th. Cant hit ft's and doesnt really take big shots.

On July 10 2010 15:45 royalsu wrote: Pacifist my claim wasn't outrageous at the time. If the big 3 had signed max deals that leaves 0$ for anyone else and the rest of the roster would be filled with 800k minimum salary crappy players. So when lebron, wade, bosh rest, their bench would get creamed. Even with boston it was the development of rondo, perkins, big baby (all of their young draft picks) that got them over the top. Mike Miller is a big fucking deal for this team. So would getting Derek Fisher. But this is only possible because the big 3 took 2 million less each and Beasley's 6 million salary got traded. So yes, I stick to my innocent statement that at the time, the bulls were a better team. And now that they got Korver, they're going to rock.

are any of the people arguing that kobe is better then lebron, not a lakers fan? just want to know that before this continues.

Blackjack.

Yes I watched that game. I also watch the Laker's entire playoff run.

Kobe missed a lot of shots that game, but made up for it in rebounds / defensive play / offensive driving which resulted in a bunch of important free throws. He still had an instrumental roll in that game.

Everyone was also tired at that point. That was an exhausting 7 game series. The Celtics ran out of gas in the last 2 quarters. Everyone's legs were dead.



Feuds with Shaq? I'm not surprised, that was still 7 years ago.

Laker's management? All he wanted was better players to play with. They got him Gasol.

Phil Jackson? Again, years ago. Phil Jackson has had a fun time coaching Kobe to the last 3 consecutive NBA finals.

On July 10 2010 12:00 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 10:16 Tien wrote:   On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head Kobe just showed the world why he is currently the #1 player. And this has a lot more to do than PPG / APG. His leadership skills and his ability to make his teammates respond / rally in the most clutch moments of the game are intangibles you cannot measure. His ability to also PERFORM in the PLAYOFFS is probably his most important asset. He never disappears in any important game. Can't say the same for the other top players. i'm not saying leadership intangibles and all that aren't important, but you have to look at it in perspective. lebron made an otherwise mediocre cavs team one of the top 3 teams in the east. kobe made a stacked team do what a stacked team is supposed to do. if you replaced kobe with wade or james the lakers would have the same number of championships this decade, if you put kobe in cleveland he would never win another ring in a million years. the other guys on the court do matter. if you watch the games lebron clearly elevates his teammates more than kobe does with his. kobe has shown to be a better closer though i will grant you that.

We shall see in next 2-3 years who is definitively the better player.


Lebron couldn't hold his team together when it mattered the most. But Lebron didn't have Gasol or other clutch players either.


But we shall see next year if he is truly capable of taking the #1 spot with an NBA championship.


If he can't win it next year or the year after in Miami Heat, there's no more excuses for him, and he won't be a better player over all than Kobe.

On July 10 2010 18:59 fakeshaver wrote: are any of the people arguing that kobe is better then lebron, not a lakers fan? just want to know that before this continues.

I dunno but them but I'm not. I actually really really like lebron. One of my fav players atm. I do think lebron will retire from the nba better then kobe but I don't see why u put him over him now.

On July 10 2010 19:14 Tien wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 12:00 bigredhoss wrote:   On July 10 2010 10:16 Tien wrote:   On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote: kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head Kobe just showed the world why he is currently the #1 player. And this has a lot more to do than PPG / APG. His leadership skills and his ability to make his teammates respond / rally in the most clutch moments of the game are intangibles you cannot measure. His ability to also PERFORM in the PLAYOFFS is probably his most important asset. He never disappears in any important game. Can't say the same for the other top players. i'm not saying leadership intangibles and all that aren't important, but you have to look at it in perspective. lebron made an otherwise mediocre cavs team one of the top 3 teams in the east. kobe made a stacked team do what a stacked team is supposed to do. if you replaced kobe with wade or james the lakers would have the same number of championships this decade, if you put kobe in cleveland he would never win another ring in a million years. the other guys on the court do matter. if you watch the games lebron clearly elevates his teammates more than kobe does with his. kobe has shown to be a better closer though i will grant you that. We shall see in next 2-3 years who is definitively the better player. Lebron couldn't hold his team together when it mattered the most. But Lebron didn't have Gasol or other clutch players either. But we shall see next year if he is truly capable of taking the #1 spot with an NBA championship. If he can't win it next year or the year after in Miami Heat, there's no more excuses for him, and he won't be a better player over all than Kobe.

I'm not sure though I think him going to the heat was kinda shitty for him. Cause if he wins we are all gonna say look what it took for him to win getting teamed up with one of the other greats Dwayne Wade..... And a good player Bosh

I can turn it around and say Kobe can only win with Gasol, one of the best centers in the entire league, and Phil Jackson, the greatest coach in the NBA.


If Lebron wins next year, I'll consider him better than Kobe.

If championships are everything then if Cleveland won last year I could make an argument that Shaq is the best player because 4 of the 5 championships that Wade, Lebron, and Kobe won they did with Shaq on their team lol

Shaq IS the best player of all time.

hahahaha




Championships are what matters most to the top dogs. If Lebron can't win a championship in Miami with top dogs around him, he won't be better than Kobe.


And for you nitwits. I'm talking about best player in their primes.


And that is a big reason why Lebron will overtake Kobe, Kobe is getting old.

On July 10 2010 18:56 Pacifist wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 15:45 royalsu wrote: Pacifist my claim wasn't outrageous at the time. If the big 3 had signed max deals that leaves 0$ for anyone else and the rest of the roster would be filled with 800k minimum salary crappy players. So when lebron, wade, bosh rest, their bench would get creamed. Even with boston it was the development of rondo, perkins, big baby (all of their young draft picks) that got them over the top. Mike Miller is a big fucking deal for this team. So would getting Derek Fisher. But this is only possible because the big 3 took 2 million less each and Beasley's 6 million salary got traded. So yes, I stick to my innocent statement that at the time, the bulls were a better team. And now that they got Korver, they're going to rock.

rofl owned

Oops my video was a repost

Considering Jordan's ego, him saying that Kobe is the best could be evidence that he thinks Lebron is better Jordan cares more about preserving his legacy as the best ever, and Kobe is not much of a threat there.

On July 10 2010 17:23 fakeshaver wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 09:59 Fraser wrote:   On July 10 2010 04:21 fakeshaver wrote:   On July 09 2010 19:22 albonycee wrote: and lol at whoever thinks that Kobe bitching about a trade when his team missed the playoffs and Lebron actually abandoning the winning-est team on the league during the reg season are the same thing. i dont have a prob w/ Lebron, i just dont want to hear any of the greatest ever talk, or him being compared to Kobe or even worse MJ. now he is just another Carmelo or Wade, nothing more. ROFL. laker homer. i guess to the untrained eye when u see a guy playing with pau gasol hes gonna look better then a guy playing with mo williams. but yea as bigredhoss said anyone who knows nba, knows lebron is the clear best player in league. kobe is not even top 5 anymore i dont think. lebron, howard, wade, durant, off the top of my head I haaaaaaaate Kobe. But I still think hes the best player in the league. Absolutely nobody is more clutch, and if you saw the series vs Phoenix this year you'd know what I mean. He hits impossible shots in double coverage and theres just nothing the other team can do. I love Lebron, and he's the one guy that could be considered better than Kobe, but other than that? Kobe is minimum top 2. Wade and Durant don't come close. he is not clutch. he just contantly takes awful shots like you say. that is not a plus. when he has players like pau gasol and lamar odom and bynum on his team. he should be passing out of those awful double coverage shots. and fade away long twos. its just not good basketball. phil jackson gets very mad at him about this stuff. id definately take dwight howard over kobe right now for next year. i think most people also think wade is better then kobe if he is not injured. people who say kobe is clutch are just clueless. have you ever seen end game stats? he is one of the least clutch players in the league. and if you want to go by youtube videos. do you also remember his multiple airballs that lead to "clutch" game winners by his teamates. http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm lol 56 fga and 1 assist. guy just loves taking the last shot. the same people who say kobe is so clutch. are the same people who lose a couple flips and think theyve lost every flip in their career. you guys just have very selective memory.

Ok he was a rookie here. Terrible sequence yes, and does he take bad shots to end games now? yes, but he somehow makes them a lot more than he should.

Edit: just saw the linked page. Interesting stat. Maybe my perception is biased by the highlights he gets when he makes the shots. Would like to see a broader definition though.

On July 10 2010 17:31 fakeshaver wrote: lol look at the guarded awful shot with fisher wide open next to him

He didnt have time to pass it was a catch and shoot play. Also this was one of the most annoying things I've ever seen in sports. Broke my heart almost as much as when the Robert Horry's bodycheck won the spurs the series over the suns and went on to win the championship.

On July 10 2010 18:59 fakeshaver wrote: are any of the people arguing that kobe is better then lebron, not a lakers fan? just want to know that before this continues.

ya i actually hate the lakers and kobe. Although I'm not really saying hes better than Lebron, just that hes easily 2nd best.

On July 10 2010 18:59 fakeshaver wrote: are any of the people arguing that kobe is better then lebron, not a lakers fan? just want to know that before this continues.

I am a Lakers fan, but now because of Lebron I am a Miami fan again.

i think what gets lost in this is just how good wade is, he's really close to kobe and lebron and the miami heat team he won with was much worse than any of the lakers 5 teams kobe won with. lebron and kobe both struggled a ton against a really good defense in the celtics and wade averaged 33 points and 56% shooting and single handedly won them their one game of the series. a healthy wade is 30 points/8 assists/50% shooting/excellent defense every night if he's the #1 guy. kobe can't do that, lebron can but not very easily.

also people forget how good mj really was to say any of these 3 guys are on his level. take a look at his 88-89 season: 32.5ppg / 8 assists / 8 boards / 54% fgs / 3 steals a game. thats just absolutely mind blowing numbers, 7 seasons straight averaging a minimum of 30ppg and only two of those seasons he was under 50% shooting? thats ridiculous

also yeah kobe's title as being the most clutch ever etc. whatever is largely a bunch of bs, i remember reading something on shane battier about how well he defends kobe and he does so largely with math by knowing where kobe is least efficient and kobe ends up taking a gw shot above him that he misses something like 80%+ of the time that he just happened to hit there and everyone thought kobe was so amazing for being such a clutch shooter. poker players should understand why this is so much bs

On July 11 2010 01:59 Fraser wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2010 17:31 fakeshaver wrote: lol look at the guarded awful shot with fisher wide open next to him He didnt have time to pass it was a catch and shoot play. Also this was one of the most annoying things I've ever seen in sports. Broke my heart almost as much as when the Robert Horry's bodycheck won the spurs the series over the suns and went on to win the championship.

feel the same way about this

and now the suns lost stoudemire :/

On July 11 2010 16:44 KeanuReaver wrote: i think what gets lost in this is just how good wade is, he's really close to kobe and lebron and the miami heat team he won with was much worse than any of the lakers 5 teams kobe won with. lebron and kobe both struggled a ton against a really good defense in the celtics and wade averaged 33 points and 56% shooting and single handedly won them their one game of the series. a healthy wade is 30 points/8 assists/50% shooting/excellent defense every night if he's the #1 guy. kobe can't do that, lebron can but not very easily. also people forget how good mj really was to say any of these 3 guys are on his level. take a look at his 88-89 season: 32.5ppg / 8 assists / 8 boards / 54% fgs / 3 steals a game. thats just absolutely mind blowing numbers, 7 seasons straight averaging a minimum of 30ppg and only two of those seasons he was under 50% shooting? thats ridiculous also yeah kobe's title as being the most clutch ever etc. whatever is largely a bunch of bs, i remember reading something on shane battier about how well he defends kobe and he does so largely with math by knowing where kobe is least efficient and kobe ends up taking a gw shot above him that he misses something like 80%+ of the time that he just happened to hit there and everyone thought kobe was so amazing for being such a clutch shooter. poker players should understand why this is so much bs

wade and kobe are different gaurds, kobe can shoot the 3 and wade can't. this makes all the difference.

wade is a 0 gaurd much like gilbert arenas always demanding/requiring the ball. this is not a bad thing per se. but basically u need 1 rebounding center which they lack in jermaine no knees o neal. and they need a 3 point shooter that wade can kick it out which they didn't have (now wiht korver this team is looking unbeatable). they had cook who was a solid 3 point shooter but chalmers fucking misses every clutch 3 point shot and u can just look at wade's demoralized face everytime he kicks it out to chalmers for a brick

also wade beat the mavs was liek pure luck. you run that 100 times they prob win the finals like 2 times

wade is my favorite player because of his defensive intensity/unselfishness and always makes the +ev move.

also comparing mj to kobe is pissing on mj's face. he never lost 3 games in a row. avged over 50 from the field 40 from 3 and 90 from the fp line in like 4/7 years or something of his first years which lebron has already failed to do (kevin durant might which is why i love the kid plus he has the proper attitude he really wants to be legendary and is surprisingly mature)

69-13
fofofo
ship da ring

lol that's exactly why they got miller

On July 12 2010 01:04 sawseech wrote: 69-13 fofofo ship da ring

I do think they will win more then 65 games, problem is some teams are sleepers untill playoffs like boston / lakers, they could easily win 60+ every season but they do enough to get a decent rank. Come playoffs, they kick it up a knotch.

Either way the upcoming NBA season will prob be the most exiting it's been since the Jordan era

there is also a good chance that the players will be locked out after the present CBA expires in july of next year

65 games is tough.


They will be good but as of right now the roster is still small and they have alot more work to do. They also have to develop chemistry.

Also, the Heat are now the Yankees of the NBA, they are the powerhouse and every single night they will get a teams BEST shot, each win will be hard work.


My opinion on the Heat choice: If i was 25 I would also choose playing with my friends in Miami over shitty clevelend or anywhere else.

Hilarious comment from Bill Simmons article:

I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school.


Wade: 3 years at Marquette
Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech
The kid from Akron: no college


The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.

"If James is going to receive about a $20 million annual salary and another $20 million in annual endorsement income, the equivalent five years of income in Miami is worth:
$13 million more than in New York
$11 million more than in New Jersey
$4 million more than in Chicago
$8 million more than in Cleveland"
(linky)

I would've thought the 20m for endorsements is on the low end as well.

On July 12 2010 18:33 Cray0ns wrote: "If James is going to receive about a $20 million annual salary and another $20 million in annual endorsement income, the equivalent five years of income in Miami is worth: $13 million more than in New York $11 million more than in New Jersey $4 million more than in Chicago $8 million more than in Cleveland" (linky) I would've thought the 20m for endorsements is on the low end as well.

He would def make the most in endorsements in NY

On July 12 2010 11:57 YouGoTGoT wrote: Hilarious comment from Bill Simmons article: I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech The kid from Akron: no college The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.

really. cuz if you think this, then yougotgot given that wade makes less than both lebron and bosh. but keep trying.

On July 13 2010 00:52 shaneomac wrote: Show nested quote + On July 12 2010 11:57 YouGoTGoT wrote: Hilarious comment from Bill Simmons article: I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech The kid from Akron: no college The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money. really. cuz if you think this, then yougotgot given that wade makes less than both lebron and bosh. but keep trying.

He means less salary money than they would have made elsewhere...

On July 09 2010 02:23 Pacifist wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2010 21:20 royalsu wrote:   On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college derrick rose is 21, a lot of college kids who are entering are actually older than him. Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG 2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8 2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .4 20.8 Once he develops 33% 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable. Do you watch basketball? First of all, him being 21 has nothing to do with anything as I was responding to a post stating that the bulls are CURRENTLY better than the heat. Second of all, you post only stats and ask me if I watch basketball? I've watched a bunch of bulls games the past 2 seasons on leaguepass, and his defense is atrocious. It has not improved AT ALL since his first games as a rookie. That's half the game right there. If he puts up 20 points but gives up 20 to "lesser" guards, what does that make him? His jumpshot is still very weak, never mind a 3 point shot. Those stats are extremely mediocre for someone who dominates the ball as much as Lebron or CP3. Sure, most of this can be blamed on his horrible coach, but the fact remains that he has not developed nearly as much as he should have.

I think it's time for Pacifist to eat his words: "Bulls are not better than the heat", "Derrick Rose is not a top 3 point guard", "D-Rose has no 3 point shot".
As I predicted "Once [Rose] develops 33$ 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable".

D-Rose:
ppg: 25.2 3point%: 34% assists/game: 8.5

Rose is 22 years old. Please name 2 other guards you'd rather have then Rose, Pacifist: _____ ______

I'm a little surprised how much the Heat suck but after watching them I'm not surprised. We ran the offense through Bosh when he was in Toronto, whereas in Miami he just watches as Lebron/Wade take turns driving to the basket. I think if they ran the offense through Bosh every possession they would do better.

Wade and Lebron don't complement each other well. It's like they play the same game (i.e. they both like the ball in the same spots) and just get in each other's way.

I'm hoping Riley coaches the heat again because my wish is to see them blow out some teams like Boston.

eh we're what, 1/6th way through the season..?

unless i see some rings being collected by lebron all i can see when i see him play is potential. kobe has rings and to be fair he has nothing to prove and the only reason he gets so much heat is that he is always being compared to MJ, whereas lebron with all his skill can just enjoy all the hype about he could be this and that if only he had this and that. hes a great talent but if he doesnt get any rings soon im pretty sure no one will remember him 15 years from now.

and most who look down on kobe/laker fans making them appear like these mindless fanboys (which they prob also are) are just as hooked on all the sneaker hype lebron has gotten since he joined the league.

im not sure heat are even top 5 anymore which really pisses me off cause i really wanted to see them blow teams out ;-/
1 - lakers
2 - celtics
3 - thunder
4- magic
5 - spurs

(imo)

On November 24 2010 01:10 TalentedTom wrote: im not sure heat are even top 5 anymore which really pisses me off cause i really wanted to see them blow teams out ;-/ 1 - lakers 2 - celtics 3 - thunder 4- magic 5 - spurs (imo)

Thunder at 3??? Are you kidding me.

The magic are a regular season team...no way are they going far in the playoffs.

The Bulls are a Boozer return and a shooter away from being a top5 team. Their defense and rebounding will keep them in any game.

yeah thunder at 3 is a bit high. they are ridic talented and have a very high ceiling though. i don't think they are 3 yet but it's not out of the question.

when you got dwight howard and stan van gundy you are a playoff team. i have only seen 1 game this year but i mean late last year they were amazing. just cuz they got nipped by the celtics playing out of their skin doesn't mean they aren't fantastic.

i agree that the bulls are good. even w/ boozer back and a shooter though it's tough to get into the top5 for them. it's possible depending on some factors but i look at them as a very strong 6.

the spurs are always real tough. they got popp at the helm. i haven't seen them play a whole game since playoffs last year but they have been killin fools this year. 11-1 w/ majority of those wins against top flight teams. if they got manu and rjeff healthy and ballin, tony parker in his prime, and tim duncan stayin alive they might be the best team in the l.

lakers are gonna laker. i don't know if they are the "best" but they always have a very high % of winning chip due to the bitchassness of the west.

celtics are gonna celtic. rajon rondo is ridikilis. big3 are gonna big3.

and about miami. i still think they are the best team and the only game i watched is their first game against boston.

On November 24 2010 00:32 royalsu wrote: Show nested quote + On July 09 2010 02:23 Pacifist wrote:   On July 08 2010 21:20 royalsu wrote:   On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college derrick rose is 21, a lot of college kids who are entering are actually older than him. Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG 2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8 2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .4 20.8 Once he develops 33% 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable. Do you watch basketball? First of all, him being 21 has nothing to do with anything as I was responding to a post stating that the bulls are CURRENTLY better than the heat. Second of all, you post only stats and ask me if I watch basketball? I've watched a bunch of bulls games the past 2 seasons on leaguepass, and his defense is atrocious. It has not improved AT ALL since his first games as a rookie. That's half the game right there. If he puts up 20 points but gives up 20 to "lesser" guards, what does that make him? His jumpshot is still very weak, never mind a 3 point shot. Those stats are extremely mediocre for someone who dominates the ball as much as Lebron or CP3. Sure, most of this can be blamed on his horrible coach, but the fact remains that he has not developed nearly as much as he should have. I think it's time for Pacifist to eat his words: "Bulls are not better than the heat", "Derrick Rose is not a top 3 point guard", "D-Rose has no 3 point shot". As I predicted "Once [Rose] develops 33$ 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable". D-Rose: ppg: 25.2 3point%: 34% assists/game: 8.5 Rose is 22 years old. Please name 2 other guards you'd rather have then Rose, Pacifist: _____ ______

how are we defining guard? i mean in today's game lebron, kobe, and KD could potentially be defined as a guard.

if we are just going "pg/sg" i snap call chris paul, rajon rondo, john wall. this is not to say i don't like rose. it also doesn't mean there aren't other guys i'd put ahead of him i would just have to watch more games and put more thought into it which isn't gonna happen until nfl season ends.

d. williams, rondo, paul !

Pure point guards. Guys who create for other players.
Nash
Deron
Rondo
CP3
Rose
Wall (already? lol)

Rose said at the end of the year that he would take 1000 three point shots per day and it appears to have paid off; that's some dedication. I would pick Rondo as the top point guard if he did the same thing as Rose and got a killer 3 point shot.

For inspiration/motivation I recommend this article on Kobe Bryant getting his drive from Michael Jackson:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt...k0a8vLYF?slug=aw-kobebryantchat112310

Some good Kobe quotes:

“Just thinking about some of the guys that I take advantage of now, taking advantage of me later – that doesn’t sit too well with me,” Bryant said.

“It’s not just passing to your guys and getting them shots. It’s not getting this or that many players into double figures. That’s bull[expletive]. That’s not how you win championships. You’ve got to change the culture of your team – that’s how you truly make guys better. In a way, you have to help them to get the same DNA that you have, the same focus you have, maybe even close to the same drive. That’s how you make guys better"

“I’ve never understood this stuff, where a star player sits out and a team goes into the tank. Well, they need him because he makes them better. Well, if he’s making them better, they should be able to survive without him. That’s how you lead your guys. You’ve got to be able to make guys suffice on their own, without you. If you’re there all the time and they take you away, they shouldn’t need a respirator."

speaking of kobe. i was kinda a kobe hater (from post-first few years up until last year) but spike lee did a documentary on a game against the spurs w/ commentary from kobe that was really sick. can't remember name.

On November 24 2010 00:32 royalsu wrote: Show nested quote + On July 09 2010 02:23 Pacifist wrote:   On July 08 2010 21:20 royalsu wrote:   On July 08 2010 20:55 Pacifist wrote: bulls are not better despite what the media leads you to believe derrick rose is not that good and hasnt developed much since college derrick rose is 21, a lot of college kids who are entering are actually older than him. Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG 2008–09 Chicago 81 80 37.0 .475 .222 .788 3.9 6.3 .8 .2 16.8 2009–10 Chicago 78 78 36.8 .489 .267 .766 3.8 6.0 .7 .4 20.8 Once he develops 33% 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable. Do you watch basketball? First of all, him being 21 has nothing to do with anything as I was responding to a post stating that the bulls are CURRENTLY better than the heat. Second of all, you post only stats and ask me if I watch basketball? I've watched a bunch of bulls games the past 2 seasons on leaguepass, and his defense is atrocious. It has not improved AT ALL since his first games as a rookie. That's half the game right there. If he puts up 20 points but gives up 20 to "lesser" guards, what does that make him? His jumpshot is still very weak, never mind a 3 point shot. Those stats are extremely mediocre for someone who dominates the ball as much as Lebron or CP3. Sure, most of this can be blamed on his horrible coach, but the fact remains that he has not developed nearly as much as he should have. I think it's time for Pacifist to eat his words: "Bulls are not better than the heat", "Derrick Rose is not a top 3 point guard", "D-Rose has no 3 point shot". As I predicted "Once [Rose] develops 33$ 3-point field goal range he will be unstoppable". D-Rose: ppg: 25.2 3point%: 34% assists/game: 8.5 Rose is 22 years old. Please name 2 other guards you'd rather have then Rose, Pacifist: _____ ______

Dwill CP3 Rondo are all much better than Rose. You still dont know how to watch defense. Or maybe you have no clue what a PG's job is. Rondo gets 8.5 assists on a bad day.

I'll admit, the heat are definitely underachieving given their talent level, and I'll admit that I (like 99% of the population) dislike them and want them to fail. That being said: the bulls are nowhere near being better than the heat. If you disagree, I suggest a friendly wager at 1:1 odds, for any amount up to $5000, as who has the better regular season record, or goes farther in the playoffs (your choice). I guess Rose marginally has a 3point shot through the first 1/6th of the season, I'll give you that. But please be rational and wait until at least one season is over before jumping to conclusions.

On November 24 2010 20:23 RiKD wrote: speaking of kobe. i was kinda a kobe hater (from post-first few years up until last year) but spike lee did a documentary on a game against the spurs w/ commentary from kobe that was really sick. can't remember name.

Spike lee did some other good ones to, I'll have to watch that one Rikd. The Reggie Miller vs Spike Lee's Knicks is a great documentary as well. Reggie pulling up 8 feet away from the 3-point line, nailing his 4th three in a row in less than a minute, then grabbing his nuts in Spike's direction: GOLD.

edit: here's the docu rikd mentions

Pacifist we're just having a friendly debate here

I can't snap call that bet because Carlos Boozer hasn't even played yet and Rose is averaging 25 points and 8.5 assists. And that's the bulls team I was betting on in the preseason so it's too early to tell how good this bulls team will be without Boozer.

I'm not a heat hater at all, I just don't judge a team before watching them play.

Now that Rose has won MVP and the bulls have won the 1st round it's a great time to revisit this thread and see all the morons (Pacifist!) out there who think they know something about basketball.

Bulls > Lakers in the finals.

heat will probably win. just too much talent on one team. drose is a fucking beast though you were right about that, just seems boozer wont do enough to get them to the finals